She was 71 and out working in her garden. Dog attacked her and killed her. They don't have all the facts in yet but it looks like the dog lived next door and got out of the fence. But I think they are still checking to be sure they have the right dog.

We have a major pitbull problem here. I guess the root of the problem is dog fighting which seems to run rampant here. And too many people who own pitbulls - none of them registered, of course. Most of these dogs probably come from fighting lines so they are really dangerous.

Pretty soon it will be illegal to own pitbulls anywhere around Kansas City. And I can't say I really blame the cities. We have had numberous deaths and maulings here - really horrendous things.

Of course the pro pitbull people are all up in arms. But they are going to lose. You simply cannot have animals that are capable of killing people allowed in populated areas. You just can't.

That breed is monstrous, I've seen it first hand. Fuck all pit bulls and fuck their fanatic owners and their ridiculous excuses.

But there is no place for pit bulls in our society.

It's no coincidence that these attacks happen much more frequently with pit bulls.

Old English Sheep Dogs score 77% on the ATTS Temperament test versus 83% for Pit bulls, and 77% for MY pets, Pembroke Welsh Corgis (Who rival German Shepherds in bite strength).

Ever seen "The Great Train Robbery?" They have an excellent simulation of the predicessor to the Jack Russell Terrier, which was used in "Ratting," a "Gentlemen's Pass Time" where the dogs were trained to kill rats in a pit, as many as 30 in a minute.

one of them could scratch your ankle, it could get infected, and you could DIE!

Don't even get me started on pomeranians.

This has everything to do with what we as progressives hold dear, like responsibility to our families and communities.

Our pets are part of our families. If that's not your gig, no foul.

I like most dogs way better than most people


except for pomeranians.

I've been a bit on edge lately. No offense intended, lefty.

we're all on edge lately

they've got this world pretty fucked up . . .

In East Austin they are breeding pits and chihuahuas. And unfortunately they make seriously cute dogs.

I've had two bite me. However, I did see a little teacup version that melted my hardened heart.

is the most annoying thing on the planet.

Cuz THAT is annoying....or don't you think so?

if it went after babs bush . . .

:shrug:

But I wouldn't want to see her eaten by pit bulls, either.

The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)

I know a couple whose black lab attacked their newborn baby when they tried to introduce the two of them. The dog was too powerful for the mom to hold back the leash and the dog took a big chunk out of the babies skull. Thankfully there is no permanent damage, but they had the dog put down. Shit happens. It isn't about one breed, it's nature. You can't predict what any animal will do around a stranger or new "threat". As a dog owner, I am responsible for my dog at all times, and he doesn't meet people without me standing between him and them. Of course he is a big lover, but I realize that if given the wrong set of circumstances, he could go off half cocked, thinking he was being threatened. He did bark like he was mad once at some kayakers that did a portage near us on a fishing trail. We saw them before we heard them and the fact that one of the kayakers was wearing one of these bike helmets, sent the dog over the edge.



He didn't attack.. he just barked. We had to calm him down, he really thought the guy was an alien. His heart was still racing and he was quivering a good 10 minutes after the kayakers put back in and disappeared around a bend.

that's extra stupid looking

boodthirsty yippy little rats

Goldberg thinks he's a pitbull and Ladybug is just that a lady. Goldberg attacked a Bull Mastiff who came into our yard. Jumped up and grabbed him by the lip and hung on for dear life. The Bull Mastiff was shaking his head back and forth trying to get Goldberg to let go and he wouldn't. We had to pry his jaws apart to get him loose. Poor Bull Mastiff. He won't come back in our yard again. Never underestimate a protective Chihuahua.

when I was growing up and they could be incredibly aggressive to strangers because while they're tiny dogs, they have huge personalities and can be fearless. One of our was particularly protective of me and would try to bite anyone who got too close (it went for my parents more than once, especially if my mother was attempting to hit me).

There wasn't a dog on my street that would mess with our chihuahuas.

'cache' means 'hiding place' (or things hidden in said hiding place, as in 'a cache of weapons').

Pound-for-pound, you'll find no better hunting dog. My wife took our oldest male for a 30-minute walk a few years back. He killed 12 field mice in that time.

on the other hand the pit bull in our neighborhood which is definately a menace seems to be on steroids. probably has some mastiff in it's background.

They happen to have enough jaw strength to crush bone and rip a grown man's throat out, but they are a very sweet breed. Again, it's the owners who turn them into killers.

A dog can act without the owner's authorization. A gun cannot.

It's the owner that makes the dog.

and instinct. There are some traits that just can't be completely trained out of a dog.

It IS the breed, they are unpredictable.

If you are just prejudiced, fine, but you aren't listening to reason.

ANY dog can be a vicious brute. AND some are easier to train that way, but you can do it to ANY dog.

them this way? At least, those who want an attack dog seem to think a pit bull is the best one to use. Are they wrong about that and it doesn't really make any difference?

for young men to have aggressive pit bulls. Plus the dogs can be worth lots of money, if you fight them. If pit bulls are banned (and these bans apply to any dog that even looks kind of like one), then they'll simply move onto another breed. There are hundreds of dog breeds out there that could be trained to be aggressive, dangerous dogs. If they can't have one, they'll just get another.

What needs to happen is harder crackdowns and penalties on animal abuse and pit fighting. That is what will really curtail the aggression problem.

Doberman's, Chow's, Rottweiler's, etc. Also, many of them believe the myth's about Pit Bull's, like how they can "lock heir jaws". Which is absolutly not true. They do tend to hold a bite longer and not "shred", which is why they were used so much to catch other animals and hold them still without significantly harming them.

Really, I'm not trying to start an argument, but they are a friend to humans, when properly cared for. I have been around many Pit Bulls and owners, and have never come close to being threatened by one. If they feel threatened by other dogs, they will attack. Pits are jealous and territorial, but unless an owner mistreats them, or breeds them as an attack dog, or if a neighbor teases one, or a stranger crosses paths with one that runs in a pack, Pit Bulls are as sweet or sweeter than any other breed I've been around.

A lab, in his own yard, one ripped his lips off, one ripped his balls, I beat on them with all my might with a shovel and they ignored me, I knew I was next.

That's the sum of my contact with them, i called the cops and they did nothing.

Pit Bulls and people. Did the Pits attack you when beating on them with a shovel? They love people, but don't have much use for other dogs.

I personally witnessed 2 pit bulls attack and kill an old woman's dog and attack her when she tried to stop them. Two neighbors came out with pots and pans and scared the dogs away while I called an ambulance. I also went to the closet and got the shotgun. I've never shot a living thing in my life, but I would have shot those dogs in an instant if they had come on my property and I would not missed a wink of sleep over it. They were eventually put down, as they should have been.

responsible and loving owners. Once again, I will say that it depends on the way a dog is raised.

which doesn't make me feel better, as a dog guardian.

Doesn't explain the dead woman in Missouri, either. The pit bull thought she was a dog?

"I'm truly sorry about your dog. But..." Which really means, I'm not sorry about your dog at all.

Oh, and dogs who don't have much use for other dogs don't belong in a culture with so many dogs.

They got under my fence and attacked my Airdale/Lab, jaws clenched on his neck. We beat them on the head with a 2 x 4 until they let go. It was terrifying.

While it may be true that ALL dogs can be vicious, not all of them have such highly bred killer instincts!

I wonder if my friend's Doberman will have some Rottweiler puppies.

gave birth to Alsations.

The owners were renters who were evicted. I was hired by the landlord to clean the house to re-rent. I think they were selling puppies in the classifieds. The woman claimed to be a veternary asst. I assumed someone who loved animals would treat them decently. So I was shocked to find a dead puppy dumped outside a window in a room filled with feces. I was shovelling the feces out the window when I discovered the rotting corpse. They had rabbits, lab rats (that escaped into my woodpile), and a dead parakeet. It was horrible. Hypo needles in the bathroom. The most awful smelly disgusting mess imaginable in a nice house they had barely rented for 2 months. It was gross beyond belief.

And a good example of the sort of pit bull owner who gives everyone else a bad name.

from behind in a public park. The pit bull could not ahve felt threatened...my dog didn't know it was there and hadn't done anything threatening.

You never forget a dog attack, and they probably just happen to be more commonly pit bull right now, both because of their traits and because of their popularity with people who have no idea how hard it can be to train those traits away.

Just as good pit bull owners see their sweet dog and apply those traits to all other pit bulls, deserved or not.

FWIW I blame humans for both their traits and their lack of training.

an albino German Shepherd. I've had a "respect" for large dogs since.

seriously, I don't know what the deal is with some of them. possibly they are deaf or something?

Deafness does not also seem to run in White German Shepherds. As someone coming from a German Shepherd loving family, we would never own a white German Shepherd. They've been so inbred over the years that it negatively affects their temperment. It's also considered a disqualifying flaw by the AKC. I'd own a pit bull in a heart beat, but I'd be a little unsure to get a white German Shepherd.

than a Boston Terrier. My experience with them have been nothing but positive (we had two, I was personally aquainted with two others that were owned by my mother's brother and sister at different farms) - all bark no bite. The Boston on the other hand, left two scars on my face when he bit me.

But never by any of the "dangerous" breeds.

Pit bulls, raised properly are not human aggressive.

Why is it completely OK with some people that their dog has a genetic predisposition toward slaughtering other people's pets?

A RESPONSIBLE pit owner takes the precautions, so it is not an issue. All dog owners shouldn't let their dogs run free unsupervised anyway.

You must not have a dog.

aggressive, btw). However, dog aggressiveness isn't a huge issue, if the dog has a responsible owner. I used to have a German Shepherd who was wonderful with people & animals she knew, but very aggressive towards strangers. We dealt with it by never allowing her off-leash, muzzling her if she had to be close to strange people (i.e. at the vet's) and by training her to immediately go to the basement (where her crate was) if people came to the door. We never had an issue.

A responsible owner knows how to appropriately control their dog in a safe manner. An irresponsible owner doesn't. So don't tell me I don't know about dogs. I've been around large, "dangerous" breeds my whole life and I know how to deal with them.

but doesn't protect dogs against the many, many pit bulls who do attack...like the one who attacked my beagle. I'm tired of hearing "they're only dog aggressive." See, the problem with that is I love my dog.

Was the owner physically capable of controlling the dog? Was the dog trained to respond to commands to "back off?"

"Dog aggression" is a much smaller issue, when those issues are addressed.

I'm sorry your beagle was attacked, but you need to look at what the owner could have done to prevent that attack.

Our neighbor let their beagle run free and he attacked our German Shepherd (twice...dumb beagle), while she was on her tie-out in the yard. Fortunately, we never let her outside unsupervised (and she listened very well) and were able to break up the fight before the beagle got hurt.

color me skeptical.

He was an unneutered male who was dog aggressive (although fine with people).

You still haven't addressed my questions about whether the owner was properly controlling their pit bull.

The dog climbed a fence and killed a woman.

What part of "dead woman" don't you understand?

Welcome to ignore.

There's no point in arguing anymore with an irrational fool, who insists I have no sympathy for the woman and won't accept any facts that contradict their blind hatred of pits.

Have fun.

BTW, the fencing was inadequate. Just because there was a fence, it doesn't mean it was proper fencing.

do YOU not understand? The fence is WORTHLESS if it does not contain the dog... DUH. :eyes:

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Classy!

:puke:

I don't know where I stand on the whole pitbull
thing but I do know that your posting is one of
the more cruel and disgusting ones in this thread.
nice work buddy :puke:

jail is really cool, as is a felony record for dipshit asshole motherfucking wastes of life that would poison a dog. I also hear that daily beatdowns in "the yard" at said prison by folks that don't take kindly to folks that abuse animals, children nor the elderly like to issue on a regular basis.

I'M just sayin...

If they feel threatened by other dogs, they will attack.

Pits are jealous and territorial

,or if a neighbor teases one

or a stranger crosses paths

Just curious.

Don't get stuck on stupid, here. Last time I'm saying this, because you people just cannot get it in your heads... If a pit bull isn't trained to fight, it won't attack people unprovoked.

by working in her garden?

Really, have you no heart at all?

My how some people are so ready to jump to conclusions. As for having a heart, what kind of person are you to make such irrational leaps?

and you really are blaming her. Unbefuckinglievable. And I'm irrational.

All family pets with no scars from fighting. That said 3 of 4 of the owners were not very bright or good people. All were unprovoked bites - unless you consider playing in their own yard, knocking on a screen door, riding past a house on a bike or watering your lawn as provocation.

according to the ATTS, out of 801 Collies tested for temperament, 633 passed and 168 failed. So, 21% failed. Out of 515 Pit Bulls tested, 430 passed and only 85 failed. Only 16.5% failed. So a Collie is MORE likely to attac than a Pit Bull.


Breed Name Tested Passed Failed Percent
COLLIE 801 633 168 79.0%
AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER 515 430 85 83.5%

I've been in the crowd that doesn't think they should be banned, that it is the owners not the breed, but I've changed my mind.

They are completely unpredictable. They are "sweet" until they aren't, then they are just deadly.

Sorry, but those that want to keep pit bulls in the city are just plain selfish.

I know others will disagree and we'll just have to leave it at that because I'm not going to keep arguing about this anymore today!

That's just common sense...which is not as common as one might hope.

they were bred NOT to be human agressive. As a matter of fact, that's one of the reasons they were originally so popular.

and a pit bull is to dogs as a rocket launcher is to guns.

The pit bulls are killers people all seem to never have much breed experience, except for stories on the news.

to not be so angry - nobody likes a big "FU" first thing in the morning. I love my pup, tho.

It's your dog I hate, not you. Why do you have one?

See 22.

According to these folks, you're in as much danger from a badly trained Golden Retriever than an American Pit Bull Terrier.

> According to these folks, you're in as much danger from
> a badly trained Golden Retriever than an American Pit
> Bull Terrier.

Oh yeah. I live in constant fear that the four Goldens
two houses away will break through their Invisible
Fencing and lick me to death. I'm telling you, constant
fear!

The Dobie that used to live next door, now that dog,
well-trained though it appeared to be...

Tesha

You seem like an OK person, but you appear to know LITTLE or nothing about dogs. I've owned them ALL of my 53 years, and unless a pet is a member of the family, you have no business owning one. I've known WIMP Dobies and JUNK YARD DOG Dobies, all of them created by the OWNERS.

Again, read the stats. I'm not making this up: I do my homework.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dogbreeds.pdf

I agree that any dog can be made vicious, but not every dog has the strength of jaw or the years of being bred to fight to be as dangerous as a pit bull when you consider the breed and not the individual dog. I have known some pit bulls that were good dogs and never any trouble. However, I have met enough pit bulls that were not good trustworthy dogs that I cannot trust them as a breed. I love dogs and have owned them all my life (mostly mutts) and I think it's a shame what unscrupulous breeders have done to these dogs, but that doesn't make the breed any less dangerous. It's not just the training, it's the centuries of being bred for a certain trait that makes these dogs what they are. I don't think you can train that instinct out of these dogs any more than you could train the herding instinct out of a Border Collie.

Some people just won't listen to reason when it comes to pit bulls. There are well over an hundred breeds of dogs FOR A REASON, folks. Some were bred as hunting companions to retrieve or point, some as herding dogs, some as ratters, some as trackers, some as guard dogs and yes, some as fighting dogs. Some breeds can track their ancestry over a thousand years to Ancient Rome, Egypt and Asia.

The instincts are there, whether or not you have a "good owner". And should those instincts ever take over -- sometimes without explanation -- you have a killer who has been bred specifically to rip the throat out of its victims with its powerful jaws and vise-like bite. There's a big damn difference between getting bitten by a chihuahua and an 50-80 lb pit bull.

Pit bulls are an epidemic problem in our area. Rampant breeding by people looking to make a quick buck, the keeping of pit bulls by drug dealers, dog fighters and just men who think their pit bull is a penis extender. In my block alone we've had two family pets killed by pit bulls in just the past year (they actually climbed over people's fences to get at their pets) and one child disfigured when a family pit bull decided to make a meal out of their three year old's face.

Say, what you will, this is one breed whose disppearance I would not mourn. It's not the dogs' fault, if you will. We bred 'em, so its up to us to stop it.

After you kill off the Pit Bulls instead of pranging the idiot owners, when do you go for the Rotweillers, then the German Shepherds? Did you notice even St. Bernards are on that list?

Lots of dogs for you to kill.

I'm not talking about killing pit bulls, I'm talking about restricting the breeding of pit bulls.

Frankly, you owe me an apology regarding the "lot of dogs for you to kill" remark. My partner and I have been involved in dog and cat rescue for years and are active supporters and volunteers with local shelters and rescue groups.

If you just want to be an asshole and not discuss this rationally, move along.

I also work at the shelter (when I can handle it, emotionally.)

I just feel that I would have had no issue taking a class and a test to LEGALLY hold the 4 dogs we have in our family. I was just getting tired of the "anti ____ mania" I was seeing. Pit Bulls get their bad rap from US not from any inherent evil in the breed. I just wish more people would feel that way.

And thank you for volunteering at the shelter.

I've got an idea.

Before you can own a dog, you have to set up a cage at your house and LIVE in it for at least 2 days.

No books.
No toys.
No computer.
No TV.
No Sanitary facilities.

Minimal bedding, water to drink (maybe) and one can of cold "BEEF A RONI" per day to eat.

When I KNOW that there's a dog going to be euthanized, I have to leave for a MONTH. If I won the lottery, the first thing I'd finance would be "No-Kill Shelters."

all my life and to insinuate that I want to kill dogs is unfair. I never mentioned in any of my posts that these dogs should be killed, but I must say that I question the wisdom of keeping one for a pet.

I do want people to be responsible pet owners and that means to keep their animals under control at all times, not expose family and neighbors to dogs that are potentially dangerous and to practice responsible breeding of their dogs. Unfortunately this does not always happen with people who keep pit bulls for pets and that has certainly been the case with most pit bull owners I have met. Most, not all, get a pit bull because of it's reputation and because it is the current macho breed.

While I realize that any dog can be made viscous, a pit bull has the physical characteristics that makes the breed more dangerous than many other breeds. It is not the only breed capable of maiming or killing humans, but they are involved in a high percentage of attacks.

For myself, I would not own any dog who had shown unprovoked aggressive behavior toward humans. There are too many good dogs out there and I don't think it is worth the risk. If you wish to own a pit bull, that is certainly your right and I hope nothing bad comes of it.

Why do I say that? Because it doesn't include all attacks by dogs. The trouble is, that when a Pit Bull DOES attack a human, it is far more likely to inflict severe injury than a Chihuahua or a Cocker Spaniel. But I have seen far mor aggressive behavior by those two breeds than just about any other type of dog. I've been around Pit Bulls and Pit owners most of my life, and I can honestly tell you I have not heard or seen of one instance where any of those Pit Bulls attacked a human being.

That is why they aggregate statistics. What IS missing from the stats is how many attacks per 10,000 dogs of that breed, eg. if there are twice as many pitbulls as Rottweilers then they are actually equally likely to kill. I don;t think that is the case. I think there are fewer Pits than Rotties but the stats don't say so that is conjecture.

As for Chihuahuas not killing, more people are killed by 357s than by BB guns which is why there are controls on lethal handguns than are not placed on toy guns. It is the ability to kill that creates the problem and the need to address it. So I don't follow your argument there.

arguing my point. If you only gather statistics which count human deaths, due to dog attacks, then you don't gain much in the way of true information, simply because very few dog breeds have the capability of overpowering a human and killing them.

If, however you want to discuss aggressivive dog breeds, then you need a lot more information; information that would encompass all breeds.

As I stated, I have seen aggressive behavior toward humans from breeds of dog that do NOT include Pit Bulls.

The Ability to Kill is the difference.

Why don't you see the difference between a dog bites and deaths?

and though this can't be measured, desire.

Pits will finish the job most other dogs will walk away from. It's bred into them.

animal aggression. But alright, I'll play along with you. The information is still incomplete, because it doesn't address unprovoked attacks, or how the dog was raised, whether it was abused or trained to attack people.

If you wish to ignore that criteria, then go right ahead, but it is pertinent info, whether you choose to believe it or not.

I've been around Pit Bulls all my life. I have never owned one. I have had shepherd mixes, but I have always had family members and friends that have pits. Never, ever have I heard about or seen agressive behavior toward humans. Of the thousands of times I have been around them, all they want to do is sit on my lap and be petted.

But if you don't want to like them, then don't like them.

because the breeding problem has just become more intense in our area in the last 10 years.

pit bulls in the neighborhoods where I walk my dog has increased dramatically over the last 5 to 10 years.

Mock me all you like. Then, when you want some actual
data, Google the news for:

o Pit-bull attack (407 hits right now)
o Rottweiler attack (100 hits)
o Doberman attack (18 hits)
o Golden-retriever attack (24 hits, ten of which mention the G-R as the VICTIM of the attack)
o Black-Labrador attack (22 hits)

Maybe the media is biased. Maybe the owners suck. But
it seems pretty clear that, on average, pit bulls are
far more dangerous than other breeds.

Uh ohh, the Goldens at the neighbors are drinking
more water, getting rather for another batch of
vicious slathering...

Tesha

"Child killed by dog" is unfortunate, but "child mauled to death by pit bull" grabs you by the booboo, doesn't it?

This has the unfortunate side effect of making EVERY dog attack a "pit bull attack". Some statistics on deaths by dogs were used higher on the thread. Know what the #1 killer is, in actuality? Mixed-breed and unidentified dogs. You see when statistics are taken, there are three categories used - the pure breeds (rottweillers, cocker spaniels, dalmatians, etc), mixed-breeds (everything else) and... pit-bull "types".

Notice the word "type". this makes "pit bull" a catch-all term. There are about thirty breeds of dogs recognized as pit bull "type", all lumped together as "pit bull". Additionally, any medium to large mongrel with a big head is almost aways lumped in this group as well. And, just to confuse matters further, many witnesses misidentify dogs as pit bulls.

This is really unfortunate because even though they look a lot alike, these dogs are very varied in temperment. The American and Irish Staffordshire terriers are sweet-tempered and love to cuddle. However they look almost identical to the dogo argentino, which I believe should not be let out in public unless it's masked and wrapped like Hannibal Lecter. Mixed breed dogs are as varied in temper as any other mongrel

Are pit bulls naturally aggressive? Not towards humans, no. As fighting dogs, any that threatened a human was killed, on the spot. Bullet to the head. Oftentimes its offspring were killed as well. A single nip could cost a dog fighter several thousand dollars worth of fighting dogs. Brutal, but effective - pit bulls are extremely passive towards humans as a result.

However they can be highly ggressive towards other animals - this depends on the strain you get. If you get a pit / staffordshire from a breeder, then they're on average no more aniomal-aggressive than any other dog, and can be trained out of it. If you get a dog from a less reputable source, or from a shelter, chances are you're getting a fighting strain, highly aggressive towards other animals - and since children are about the size of a large dog, they can sometimes be mistaken, as well.

There are two huge problems with pit bulls today - one, the owners. Three kinds of peopel own pit bulls. People who, like myself and many posters here actually adore the breed and love to rope-wrestle until we have blisters on our hands. Next are the people (male and female) who treat pit bulls as penis implants with legs. These are the people who look at the headlines to figure which dog is the most macho, and go out to get one or three. Sometimes they're less stupid and just want a guard dog - a pit bull is utterly useless as a guard dog. They like people too much. Dogs owned by these sorts are often neglected and bored out of their minds, and half the time they get roughed up by their owners trying to get them to "act tough" or whatever misguided idea of ownership they may be working on. The third, and worst group that owns pitbulls are the fuckers who fight them. Even before being tossed int othe ring, these poor animals are abused beyond belief. Most are starved, often beaten with bats or pipes to "toughen them up". One popular method of training is to restrain a male dog looking at a "bait" dog", and set the pit bulls scrotum on fire so that he associates that sensation with other dogs. Dogs that lose are dumped, if not killed on the spot. Most of the pit bulls you find on the street are victims of these people.

The other problem is breeding. A reputable kennel is okay. It's the other places, the street breeders and puppy mills that are the problem. They meet the demand for popular dogs such as huskies, labradors, and pit bulls, by breeding bitches until they literally die, keeping hte animals in cramped quarters, and in general awful conditions. The breeding is indiscriminate, focusing on looks more than anything, and puppy mill dogs are almost always grossly inbred. These are hte sources of most fighting and neglected dogs, sincve I have yet to meet a decent breeder who doesn't screen their clients.

So most often these attacks are the results of highly inbred and neglected dogs that have been abused from the moment they left the birth canal, trained to kill other dogs by having the crap beat out of them by humans, wandering the streets, usually in pain from lingering injuries. In short... there are a lot of deranged animals on the street, and yes, these poor things are a legitimate threat. Half the time they get picked up, sometimes they get adopted by people in the first group, and, well, stuff like this attack happens.

The responsability for the care and restraint of ANY dog goes straight to the owner. Blaming the dog itself is idiotic, because any dog can be trained for any purpose or temperment. They're blank slates. If you're going to own a pit bull, you need to know exactly what you're getting into. Pit bulls are not a "beginner's dog". They require a lot of stern (not angry) training, a lot of play time from their owners, and above all else, a responsable owner.

1. Be sure you're getting a dog from a reputable breeder. Don't get your pit bull from "the guy down the street". Also it saddens me to say this because I have worked in a pit bull rescue and shelter operation, but do not adopt a pit bull from a rescue shelter if you're just looking for a pet. These animals were quite often brutalized and mistreated by their previous owners, and unless you're fully prepared to deal with a land shark that has several psychoses, I'd suggest avoiding shelter dogs.

2. Always know where your animal is. This goes for any dog, but especially for pit bulls who often get double the penalty for half the offense. Most states and counties have "dangerous dogs" ordanances that you need to obey, even if your dog is the sweetest thing since honey. NEVER leave any dog unattended with small children or other animals. It's amazing how many horror stories involve "turning my back" or "going to the next room for a minute". Again this applies to any dog at all - but while any dog can bite, not every dog can exert two hundred and fifty pounds per square inch when they bite. A warning nip that from a lab would only pinch, could cost a finger from a pit bull.

3. When walking your pit bull, use a harness and a strong leash. They're very strong animals - stronger even than they look. They will snap most extendable leashes without any issue, and they can asphyxiate from pulling against a collar - and trust me, every pit bull I've ever known pulls hard, even if just to sniff a tuft of grass. They really don't do anything halfassedly. Also, avoid dog parks. Even the animals that have been bred for docility around other dogs still aren't fully "finished" yet, and nobody wants any accidents to happen. If you happen across another dog, keep your pit's leash shirt and hold him on your side furthest from said dog. Most pit bulls would just like to sniff and move on, but while there are a number who would follow up wioth a sudden chokehold, it's safest to not risk it.

4. Play with your animal, for god's sake. Pit bulls are terriers through and through, no matter how different they look. As such they are highly energetic animals that need a huge amount of attention to keep them occupied. If you have your heart set on owning a pit bull type of dog, be prepared for four hour tug of war matches followed by a lonmg run and two hours of ball-throwing, before your pet is worked out enough to settle for wrestling on the carpet. If you don't keep your dog stimulated, he will chew the crap out of everything you own - and considering the power of a pit's jaws, this is something you want to avoid.

Like I'm saying, the pit bull is not a dog for the new or casual dog owner. They take a lot of work (and for some, a lot of money) to keep safe and healthy. They aren't savage monsters by nature, but a monstrous owner can easily produce a monstrous dog.

http://www.realpitbull.com/
http://www.pbrc.net/home.html

Pit Bulls do tend to elicit some sort of emotional response.

"Reputable breeder" is an oxymoron. Bottom line. Especially for this breed. As for avoiding shelter dogs, considering that most shelters slap the "pit bull" nametag on any four-legger with bully traits, I'd say that's bad advice, too.

Lastly I run a rescue, and many of our dogs are bullies. We've never had one come back, nor have we ever had one that bit someone once they left our hands. Our bullies come from all situations...fighters to bait dogs, abusive homes to breeders. I'd challenge the local cocker spaniel rescue to match our success.

But there are indeed breeders for several bull breeds. The problem is the AKC does not recognize most bull types, and it's an uphill battle to gain recognition for them, so decent breeders and registered breeders are few and far between. Thus why I said "reputable", rather than "registered". One also has to look for the particular breed - "pit bull" is a catchall, as I'm sure you know, so one needs to look for "American Staffordshire Bull Terriers" or the like.

My warning about shelter dogs is from my own experience. I was in no way trying ti disparage you and those like you, far from it! It's simply that, having sheltered dogs myself, I've come across a handful that I really wouldn't recommend for adoption. And yes, it bothers me a great deal to say something like that, but it's true. Some of these dogs are crazy amd unsuitable for the majority of people looking for a dog. It's that possibility of getting a crazy animal that engendered my warning.

Perhaps I should amend it to "expect the best, but prepare for the worst, just in case". As with any dog, someone adopting a pit bull should realize the animal they take home from the shelter could very well have some serious issues from its previous life - It's just that pit bulls are two dogs for the price of one.

I should also have said that adopting from a shelter is a great idea, but the dogs should be temperament tested, etc. Many shelters do this, but some don't, and just toss each dog in a run on the floor for adoption with no idea what that dog is like. The thought makes my skin crawl, but it is a reality. I've had those same experiences as a shelter volunteer.

of all dog breeds are part of each breed's genetic make up. The so called "pit bull" is bred specifically to heighten the tendencies of aggression and confrontation that one finds in varying degrees in all members of the wolf species. These traits can no more be "trained out" of a dog than size, hair color or any other physical characteristic. While training and the treatment of a dog may play a part in the development of its individual temperament, the breed's propensity for aggression will always be present, lurking just below the surface. When I see a half-wit with a car full of children and a "pit bull" sitting right in the big middle of them, I can't help but feel scornful and contemptuous of such ignorance and stupidity.

I choose to reject your self-proclaimed expertise on this topic.

Plus anybody is more likely to be attacked by a dog they show fear towards. I've never had a problem with German Shepherds, Dobies, Rotts, or Pits, but I'm not scared of any of those breeds. You'll get yourself into more trouble acting like a frightened idiot, than if you just treat them like you should any dog, which means be the alpha over that dog.

And I do not act like a frightened idiot around any dog.

Tesha

How kind of you.

someone that is fearful. This is a pretty well-accepted idea in the dog community.

It is idiotic to be fearful of one large dog (i.e. Doberman) over another large dog (i.e. Golden) simply because of the breed, regardless of whether that dog is exhibiting aggressive behavior.

a good, progressive attitude.

and I can't turn away a sweet pup in need of a home. I think it's kinda wrong to hate someone you've never met. Dogs are individuals, too.

Given a choice between saving a dog or Ann Coulter from drowning...Sorry Ann. You should have learned to swim.

she likes to chew on sticks.

KIDDING, Lance.

I'd rather spend time with my dogs than my friends. Same goes for my partner.

She's the best, most gentle dog in the world.

Dogs are like kids, if you raise them right, they will be Democrats. :) raise them wrong, well you know the answer to that one.

Pitbulls come from different lines. If you have one from a non-fighting line you probably have a good dog - may be dog agressive.

I think people should be allowed to keep their dogs if they are registered and are from AKC or non-fighting lines.

But this problem is getting so bad that all pitbulls are going to be banned.

But these people have fighting line dogs and they raise them wrong on top of it.

Most of these awful attacks have been unprovoked. We had one just a few months ago where three pitbulls got loose and mauled three guys mowing their yards. One was so bad that he will never be all right again - tore one of his arms off for God's sake.

Why isn't dog aggression a problem. I love my dog, and don't want dogs around her who would harm her. Dog aggression is a problem in communities with many dogs.

Which is why I don't like pits. Once your dog is attacked, as mine was, dog aggression becomes a concern.

the right situation. Many dogs have been bred for a specific purpose and training doesn't rid them of their basic instincts. Some are bred for herding, some for hunting, some for retrieving, etc. Pit bulls have been bred for centuries to fight and kill. I don't know of any amount of training that could guarantee that a pit bull would not resort to their basic breeding and become dangerous. In my opinion, they are just a time bomb waiting to go off and I could never fully trust one around small children.

that are almost deserted. No way would I feel she's safe without her dog. That said, the dog's well trained, and is always in a secure fenced area when outside unless she's in the car with my daughter at night. We also have an elaborate security system, but the best time the sheriff could make it to her house is 25 minutes and she could be dead in that length of time.

You can say get another breed but I do have two different breeds at my house. Once when I was returning from my daughter's house around midnight, I had my two dogs in the car with me and was stopped at a light. A man pulled up next to me in the turning lane, got out of his truck and approached my window. My dogs were going nuts barking at him and he just laughed and continued his approach. He was drunk and very threatening. I opened the window slightly to tell him to get away from my car and he actually asked if I thought those 2 sorry-assed dogs with me were going to protect me while he was having his "fun" with me.

I then pulled my gun and answered "no, but this sure will - I have some hollow points with your name on them". Needless to say, he hightailed it back to his truck and peeled out of there. I have a concealed weapons permit due to the fact I also live alone in a remote area.

I certainly don't want my daughter carrying a gun - she's only 23 and on disability for mental health reasons. With nuts like that man running loose, I thank God daily for her beloved Pit Bull.

NOT the dog's.

A story:

I once was a stereo salesman in 1974. Into my store came a woman with a BEAUTIFUL Alsatian (think LARGE German Shepherd). I didn't here her command the dog to sit, but sit he did like a statue.

I was stoned. REALLY stoned. And I LOVE all dogs.

I got down on a knee and beckoned to the dog: "Nice dog, Nice dog, good boy!" He came over to me wagging tail and whimpering in that "Pet me! Pet me!" mode dogs have.

I gave him MAJOR pets and scratches, until his astonished owner came over to me in horror.

"He's attack trained in ARABIC!!! He doesn't even understand English!!! I've NEVER Seen him do this."

Dog continues massive tail wag.

Me: "Dogs just love me. ALL dogs. Don't know why."

She issues command in Arabic, Dog snaps to heel and she walks him out.



Moral of the story: THERE ARE NO BAD DOGS, ONLY STUPID, MEAN AND CRUEL OWNERS THAT TURN THEM INTO PROGRAMMED, VICIOUS KILLERS.

By the way, I own 3 Corgis, one Mix, and 4 cats, but I've NEVER met a dog I didn't like, or that didn't like ME. INCLUDING Pit Bulls, who are much less high strung than most dogs I meet.

From "The American Temperament Test Society, Statistics dated December 2005"
http://www.atts.org/statistics.html
AMERICAN PIT BULL TERRIER Tested: 515 Passed: 430 Failed: 85 Percentage: 83.5%
ROTTWEILER Tested: 4650 Passed: 3834 Failed: 816 Percentage: 82.5%

American's Second Favorite Dog
GOLDEN RETRIEVER Tested: 679 Passed: 568 Failed: 111 Percentage: 83.7%

And MY Dogs:
PEMBROKE WELSH CORGI Tested: 182 Passed: 142 Failed: 40 Percentage: 78.0%

The more People I meet, the more Like Dogs.

without the training or physical strength to deal with a pit bull, this one was significantly less than good.

Even a dog that has been trained to fight can be rehabilitated but it won't happen in the first 5 minutes that the dog gets free from the bad owner. I don't think the breed should be banned but perhaps a special license should be created that requires the owners to prove they have the skills to handle and safeguard these dogs.

There should be special licenses to own ANY animal.

I met a guy yesterday who bought a Golden Retriever pup. He stuck it in the back yard and his family treated it like a toy that they could play with when they wanted.

OF COURSE it dug up the yard. OF COURSE it pissed on the carpet on the rare occasion that they let it inside their museum of a house.

"We just HAD to get rid of it." IDIOTS. I bit my tongue and it was difficult not to say something.

special license and a lot more enforecement for violations.

I think I said something similar upthread. A special license and monitoring from animal control on a fairly regular basis. Only those with serious training and a license reflecing such training should be allowed to have one. Otherwise, I'm in favor a ban within city limits. I know they aren't all bad, but they do have a higher propensity to be bad and there are just too many idiot owners out there.

Spoken with monstrous bias against a breed, likely by one that has no clue what one is talking about.

My best friend owns a lovely pit bull name Lily. She is the sweetest, most easy going dog you'll ever meet. But she has been raised with love and discipline and that makes all the difference.

An example is in order. A couple of years back one of my friend's other dogs, a Chow/Sheppard mix, got stung by a bee or something in the yard and went NUTS. She bit Lily over 100 times. Lily bit the other dog exactly once and then only hard enough to get her to let go. The other dog was not hurt...Lily was torn up pretty badly. My point is that Lily could have KILLED that other dog, but she CHOSE not to.

Pit bulls are strong, so when they are not raised right they can cause a lot of damage...but that is their owner's fault...not the dogs. When raised to understand their own strength and to understand what is not acceptable behavior, pit bulls are wonderful, friendly, loving animals.

a little old lady is only worth so much these days.

They're reading the tabloids, and not doing their homework.

Plus I think they'd all feel safer if we replaced our dogs' teeth with Nerf Teeth.

NERF WORLD, that's it!! Swath EVERYONE in Nerf. That way no one has to be responsible for ANYTHING!!!!

or not?

The dog should be euthanized. The OWNER should be JAILED.

You've got no argument from ME on that one, but getting rid of a breed of dog to keep everyone "safer" is on the same par with the idiot who said that if you aborted every black male in the country being carried in utero right now, the crime rate would go down.

How about dealing with the real issues? Like prevention by PRANGING idiot owners.

Just sayin'...

And what if he DID raise the dog properly? It doesn't matter, the poor lady lived to be 71 and a fucking dog killed her horribly in 5 minutes.

It should be EUTHANIZED, and in my cosmology, so should the idiot owner.

What is your problem, dude? Do you also vote for building prisons vs schools? Cure this problem with licensure, education, and if need be STRINGENT ACTION AGAINST IDIOT DOG OWNERS OF ALL STRIPES.

Charges of Involuntary Manslaughter seem to be in order here.

I don't care what size your doggy is. We have had our doggy for six years, and we are so happy that he has never gotten away from us. He stays close by. So sad that these things happen.

for a victim, be it a child or a 71 yo woman. They love their dogs, but don't value humans.

suggesting that we eliminate a whole breed of anything is deplorable.

I'm a commited vegan (almost 20 years), a life-long animal lover, against vivisection and animal testing, and I *still* wouldn't make the ridiculous argument that dogs and humans are of equal value. If a breed demonstrates both the predisposition to attack humans or other dogs, combined with the physical ability to do grievous injury or even kill those it attacks, then by all means the entire breed (which was a breed artificially created by man, after all) should be exterminated.

If dogs and human are equally valuable, does that mean if you saw a pit bull with it's jaws clamped 'round your child's face or your mother's throat that you'd just step back and let them decide it for themselves, as equals? Of course you wouldn't! You'd kill that fucking shitheel dog in a second, and never feel a twinge of guilt for doing so.

whats next? german shepards? mountain lions? the bullies that beat up your kid @ school?

"If a breed demonstrates both the predisposition to attack humans or other dogs"
very nice assumption

we are a very very stupid society..

that the breed has a high level of dog aggression. *We* created the breed, *we* have a responsibility to protect people and other animals from the breed. How many German Shepherds kill people every year? And mountain lions aren't our creation or responsibility.

>we are a very very stupid society...

Speak for yourself.

Let the breed die out. Nothing cruel in that.

I wouldn't mind seeing them all euthanized today, but letting the breed die off works just as well.

a couple dozen breeds, btw.

I'm against continuing to breed American Pit Bull Terriers, Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers, Staffordshire Terriers, and mixes of these breeds.

I know a thing or two about dogs, too. I'm on the board of two humane organizations, have a dog with a CGC, and my late beagle was a CDX.

Why do pit bull advocates think they're the only ones who know anything about dogs?

It's the owners who turn them viscious.

How is unleashing a Pit Bull on society any different than Israel bombing the innocents in Lebanon?
Or the U.S. killing people in Iraq for no reason?

ANSWER:
No difference. :grr:

If that makes me an apologist, then so fucking be it. Yeah, I'm sorry the old lady died. The owner was irresponsible and should get in legal trouble and the dog should be put down. Does that mean all pit bulls are bad? No.

I think comparing Pit Bulls to terrorism is a fucking bullshit analogy and I hope you realize that, too.

Anyone can justify bad behavior if it suits them.

Believing that bombing innocent people is no big deal = Owning a dog breed that is known to kill consistently and indiscriminately.

In both cases people have allowed their allegiance and blind love-be it for Israel or a Pit Bull-interfere with their common sense and doing what's right for a large population of other people.

There is simply NO excuse for such selfishness in either case.

That's what my analogy was meant to convey, though I didn't take the time to really explain it. :shrug:

I've been around quite a few of them and they've all been good dogs. I'd trust them way more than a cocker spaniel.

Blind hatred and ignorance of a breed is interfering with YOUR common sense.

How many times have Pit Bulls killed or maimed? ANSWER: Too damn many to count.

How many times have Cocker Spaniels killed or maimed? ANSWER: Never heard of one incident.

You'll NEVER admit you're wrong because you can't let go of your illusions about something you've aligned yourself with. It's part of who you are.

And we all wonder why we can't talk sense into warmongers and people who love * & Co!

Sadly, it will probably take something cataclysmic for you to change your mind. Which is a damn shame, but good luck to you in the meantime.

Why is that?

Secondly, any large dog breed could kill an elderly lady; even those beloved retrievers have killed people.

Yes, a large dog is going to inflict more damage than a small dog, that is common sense. Should all large dogs be banned?

Nice strawman, though.

killed by pit bulls? That's my point.

viewed as aggressive and tough. Of course, the numbers are going to be skewed because asshats aren't buying Goldens to turn into attack dogs. The problem still lies with the people are are training killer dogs and not with the breed. Go harder after the dog fighters & those who abuse the animals. Stiffer penalites, etc. Banning one breed will simply cause them to start using another.

And I had a Cocker Spaniel charge my dog while walking. The Cocker Spaniel was not leashed, as my dog was. I wondered why this little dog was crazy enough to charge my 70 pound, musclebound pit bull. Luckily, I was able to lead my dog in another direction.

One of a pair. The first time I met these dogs, I was chasing a kidnapper. Literally. The tension and aggression in the air was strong. He was coming down the drive with his car while I called 911; I hopped in on top of the dogs. We ran them down, got them stopped, and waited in the car for 3 hours while the cops took the kid and processed the situation.

During that time, these dogs heard their master yelling, were jumped on by an angry, terrified stranger, heard the people in the other car screaming threats, were approached by men in uniform, and could hear the child crying.

They never once showed any sign of aggression. When I jumped on them, they scrambled out of the way. While we waited, they rested their heads in my lap. They lay quietly while the officers spoke to us, and, while they looked out the windows at the other car, they never growled, snarled, or showed any stress.

The dog that is still living has refused to eat since the death of her brother. She is mourning him, and may not outlive him by much.

That touching story is to point out that it is not the pit that is the problem. It's the people. Pits, like other dogs, learn aggression, or not, from their people. Whatever the solution to the pitbull problem is, if you don't address it at the source, the people, it will simply crop up in other breed/s.

:popcorn:

A scary-sounding name applied to an artificial definition that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with actual safety and more with appearance and politics.

With proper training, Pits can be good dogs.

Same was said for Rotteweilers.

If a Pit mauls someone, it should be severe jail time for the owner. It shows what they are breeding this animals for.

One less to breed more with

Good riddance, I say.

My Pit Bull wouldn't hurt a flea.

that approaches us" and "My policy is to let her defend herself, which she has done skillfully on occasion."

here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1753568&mesg_id=1758561

and "But, if someone still insists on approaching, then they are indeed fair game."

here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1753568&mesg_id=1763408


So, I guess fleas are safe, but humans and other dogs are a different matter.

Nice to know.

that approaches us" and "My policy is to let her defend herself, which she has done skillfully on occasion."

here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...

and "But, if someone still insists on approaching, then they are indeed fair game."

here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


So, I guess fleas are safe, but humans and other dogs are a different matter.

Nice to know.
==========
I guess you do not read very well. I stated that other dogs, not leashed, have charged my dog. I let my dog defend herself. What is wrong with that?

And, if I'm walking my dog and someone that I do not know approaches me, I am glad that she warns them off. What is wrong with that?

by one getting out of my car to visit a child for early intervention. The dog lived next door to the home I was going to and she was a nursing mom.

She came charging at me as I got out of my car, and I put my rather large bag in front of me, avoided eye contact, used my key fob to open the side door to the minivan, and backed in, closing the door. God knows what I would have done if the dog had jumped in with me. I had to wait for the owner to restrain the dog before I could get out of my car.

I can't imagine what would have happened to a child who would have most likely started to run away.

by a weiner dog.

Frankly, I don't know if they should be banned, but I think that any pit bull owners should be licensed, trained and monitored if they want to own them in city limits.

That was a vicious attack on an old lady who was gardening in her own yard. What a way to go.

She'd told a neighbor lady that she was afraid to go outside because of the dogs.

walking past my house. I told her if I ever saw that dog without a leash again, I would call Animal Control and report her.

I just don't understand these imbeciles. Our county has had a leash law for years. Why does anyone walk ANY kind of dog without a leash? The dog could attack a child, or run into the path of a car or bicyclist. Or get into a fight with another dog. But I see people with dogs off-leash all the time.

Walking a pit bull without a leash is the height of imbecility.

And he was much more well behaved than the vast majority of dogs that I've seen on a leash. Always stayed aprox 1 foot off of my right leg, and wouldn't break off unless I told him to. Never went across a street, etc. unless I told him to. Walking a dog via voice control is a sign of great training, is legal in many places, and is a lot less cruel to the dog than having them lunge and dragged on a leash. All my dogs(excepting my heeler mix who is a runner) walk with me on voice control.

It is simply a matter of training.

All dogs are required to be on a lease, unless they are in a fenced area.

I love my dogs, but they are dogs and DO chase cats. They also scare small children when they try to herd them, so they NEVER leave the yard unleased.

It's call RESPONSIBLE PET OWNERSHIP.

Springfield Mo, it was legal to walk your dog either on leash, or under *demonstrable* voice control. I was stopped a number of times by the police in order to demonstrate, and passed with flying colors each time. Currently I live on twenty acres and walk my dogs on my land without a leash. Most of the surrounding towns have leash laws, though the nearest one does have a provision for voice control, which I use. I can, and do,walk my pack in that town on voice control only(like I said, excepting for my heeler mix). They are friendly, well behaved, and I get many compliments on their discipline and manners.

Have been since a German Sheperd jumped down from a balcony and ran up to the sand box I was playing in and bit one of my play mates when I was an itty-bitty girl. I've had bad experiences with other German Sheperds and Rottweilers as well, and I thanked God that my brother is so allergic my step-dad had to get rid of his bird dog when he moved in with my mom. Didn't matter how gentle I knew Robin, the bird dog, was, I was instinctively afraid of him. However, my stepdad bred whippets (greyhounds?) professionally, and I know that in most cases of dog gone bad there's an owner who hasn't done his job properly. My aunt is one of them. Her dogs were not raised correctly, and neither her Irish wolfhound or her terrier/poodle like mutt were well behaved. It was just that the Irish wolfhound was the size of a small calf and the mutt was the size of a big cat. The same point is being made with regards to pit bulls. They may not have a bigger tendency to go postal than many other breeds, but the results when they do can be, and most often are, much, much worse than when the chihuahas and corgis et al do.

If a dog isn't raised correctly, that isn't just endangering the neighborhood, but also animal abuse. If the animal control in a city does not have the resources to check up on every report of bad dog owners, the only right thing to do would be to require licences for ownership of certain races, or outright forbidding them. One must think of the safety of the population first.

when you see a dog without leash sitting next to his owner just ahead you on the sidewalk, and you ask the owner to hold the dog while you pass because you're afraid of dogs. I cannot count the number of times the answer I've gotten is "but my dog is so sweet, he wouldn't hurt a fly." That doesn't matter! If you're afraid of dogs, you're afraid of dogs, and no matter how much the owner assures that the dog is nice, and no matter how well trained the dog actually is, the dog owners should realize that the only thing they're doing with that attitude is breeding ill will!

That beast should have been in a zoo. I agree that there's some breeds that should not be legal to own.

Wolves also but they are technically not dogs.

went through. Finally getting up the courage to go out and garden getting barked at etc. Start your gardening and then bam over the fence the dog comes and starts tearing you apart. They said the dog was still working on her when the cops finally got there.

That poor lady who probably imagined being attacked, probably dreamed it. She died that afternoon living her worst nightmare.

I've about had it with that whole breed of dog.

But they are an overly aggressive breed, and because of all the attacks, I think people should not be allowed to breed them.

A dog with that lineage should not be bred so indiscriminately. it's frightening, and sad for the good pitbulls out there.

Sorry, but there is no excuse for breeding and raising beautiful creatures like dogs just so they can rip each other apart for sport.

And, I agree that pitbulls who have been raised to fight should not be anywhere near populated areas, no matter how well fenced in they are.

TC

Pitbulls are too dangerous to own. The breed has been bred to emphasize bite strength and gameness (willingness to concentrate on the task at hand-biting and killing). Your dog may be very sweet but it may have this hidden reservoir of gameness which is why pitbulls "snap" - they are just expressing these genes. You did not train your dog for this and there is nothing that can be done. This would be ok if it was a jack russel terrier because they can't bite as hard but pitbulls can. No point of owning one.

This is what I don't get about all the "My pit bull is the sweetest..." and "It's not the breed, it's the owner" crap. Although there can be a rogue animal from any breed, and although bad ownership makes any dog more dangerous, nevertheless the overwhelming incidence of injury and fatality to humans is from pit bulls and rotties, etc. We know that many breeds of dog are less dangerous (hounds, border collies, retrievers), so WHAT'S THE POINT OF OWNING A PIT BULLDOG?

One had him by the lips, the other had him by the testicles, just ripping for all they were worth. I layed into on of them with a shovel as hard as I could and they just ignored me. Then I realized that I was next, and called 9-11. Even thought about shooting them.

animal control came out and saw to my dog, and then they said these two pit bulls had escaped and caused trouble several other times too.

If it had been a kid....oh god.

that sucks. I know someone with a pit bull and i'd never step foot in their house. The route where I run has all kinds of these attack dogs. Each house I pass you can hear them barking and straining at the gate to break out and attack. The "it's the owner's fault" people are so fucking full of shit it is ridiculous. Neuter every single one of em and let that miserable breed dissappear.

that sucks. I know someone with a pit bull and i'd never step foot in their house. The route where I run has all kinds of these attack dogs. Each house I pass you can hear them barking and straining at the gate to break out and attack. The "it's the owner's fault" people are so fucking full of shit it is ridiculous. Neuter every single one of em and let that miserable breed dissappear.

of this dog should spend some SERIOUS time in prison. These dogs are a lethal weapon and the owners know it. There is no reason why someone should have to worry about being killed by a neighbor in their own backyard.

They would not rule out manslaughter or murder charges as of yesterday.

man was mauled so badly- had the book thrown at them. They ended up with 44 counts of just about everything against them. Everything from violating the leash and licensing laws to I don't know what all. That guy was homeless and will probably end up with a home in prison for many years.

these people don't respect laws. You have to prosecute them just like you would if they came over the fence with a loaded gun. This is not "an accident." There is no excuse for this.

....area when I lived there, until that breed of dog was outlawed. That too sprang from people - mostly children - being attacked and killed by pitbulls. Most of the attacks were completely unprovoked and in some cases the dog was being petted or just played with by children when the dog attacked them. A few children managed to live but some will forever be physically and emotionally scared.

Yes, Pitbull owners in Denver were also up in arms for a time and even took the issue to court but lost - thankfully - and the last time I heard all pitbulls caught by animal control or even the Humane Society are required to be euthanized without question.

That's the only breed of dog that I think should be considered for extermination. The breed - from what I understand - was originally meant as a fighting dog possibly to wipe out large rodents?? - and the breed has been inbred enough to in some cases completely destroy the original intent of the breed.

They are very scary looking dogs!!

and seldom do you hear of horrific dog attacks on people and other pets anymore while it was getting epidemic before the ban.

I have no doubt that a good, beloved and well cared for pitbull is a wonderful, sweet pet, but the breed and its instincts and power don't always attract the most well-intentioned owners, and the dog's excitability and power are a real danger in society.

DemEx

........."....of horrific dog attacks on people and other pets anymore while it was getting epidemic before the ban." That is why Denver adopted the "automatic euthanize" rule.

It's illegal to bring them into the country or to breed them. I don't think they killed those that were already pets when the law came into being, but this was when I was still a kid, so I'm not sure.

they sterilized them and enforced a muzzle and leash requirement when pitbulls were out in public.

American Staffordshire terriers (and a few other fighting breeds) are limited here as well - they must have papers to prove that they are from good, not for agressiveness-bred stock.

DemEx

But then, as I said up thread, I'm afraid of dogs. With the statistics posted on-thread with number showing that there were twice as many deaths caused by pit bulls than the next dog race, rottweilers, I cannot understand the pit bull defenders saying that just because corgis and sheepdogs score higher on the aggressiveness tests, pit bulls shouldn't be banned. It doesn't matter if they scored a quarter of the agressiveness of a rottweiler if there was still 60 deaths by pit bulls and 29 by rottweilers over a 17 year period. It should just make us think about licencing rottweilers as well.

right here in metro Denver. Happened at 3AM - a neighbor saw it happening - chased the dog away.

I can't believe some asshole would let their pitbull just roam the streets - especially since it's against the law to even have one here.

Many years ago I lived in a small town in Wyoming - there was a stray pit bull that used to come by - friendly dog - I'd feed her - one day that dog turned up dead - shot - I was pretty pissed off - now I'm not so sure it wasn't the right thing to do...

since pit bulls are such sweet dogs

:sarcasm:


Really, my sympathies