The rockets being fired from Qana is on MSNBC right now. Released by IDF.

Time to poo-poo the video! Hurry before you miss it! 4 rockets were fired by HEZBOLLAH from near that building.

Hopefully they'll replay it soon so everyone here can catch it.

It's of the "win by deception" sop. Listen carefully to the explanation about the video. If there had been legitimate videos of rockets being fired by Hizbollah near that location they would have been available in almost real-time. Notice that it this long for Israel to dig up some old footage from their archives to use to try to fool people that this was a video of the incident in Qana.

color me shocked and awed.

:eyes:

Even when they have a point, they can't resist playing dirty. The issue isn't really if there were rockets launched from near the building; the issue is whether Israel has a right to destroy civilian neighborhoods because they THINK there might be a couple of Hezbollah fighters in the area. The Likudniks have been incredibly trigger-happy ever since Sharon instigated the intifadah. Israel's entire justification sounds just like our Repukes: Normal laws don't apply to us because we are fighting people who don't follow them. The Geneva Conventions have found that is no excuse for barbaric behavior and declaring war on civilians, women and children.

When you bully and oppress a people with superior military strength, they're going to fight back any way they can. To put people into such a situation, then screech like a monkey when they hit back at you, is something that goes so far beyond hypocrisy and bullying I don't think a word has been invented for it yet.

Maybe Likudnik would work. "They're really likudniking on this..."

And even faux says it's not a picture of the building they bombed today.

but the building they blew up was not the one they blew up that also took down that building that killed all the people.

all I know.

and on edit, do you think its ok to kill civilians like that for any reason whatsoever, when their capability dwarfs lebanons or for that matter any country at anytime.

What does it accomplish?

take them down. The Hezbollah were gone long before Israel got there.

Israel got suckered.

You have got to be kidding. Is that your honest interpretation of events?

How about Israel must immediately withdraw and stand down?

suckered Bush into thinking he had WMD.

There are multiple ways of interpretation because the situation is multi-dimensional. We all know that they didn't hit the building directly but their indiscriminate use of hi-powered weapons in civilian areas when lower-powered would do is a war crime.

No fuckin need to repeat that. Who can't figure that shit out. The suckered point is just another dimension.

You say things how you want them said. Let me say what I wanna say how I wanna fuckin say it.

Or should I just give you my DU signon information?

suckered Bush into thinking he had WMD"

You fell for that lie too?

Great. My full name's meaning is clear. Just say it out loud three or four times and you'll get it.

We say he did. HE threatened he did. That doesn't sound as cool as tricked.

he was trying awfully hard to convince the Weapons Inspectors that he didn't.

sucker

rockets and left? Of course you wouldn't believe Hezbollah would do such a thing.

understand?

IT WASN'T FOOTAGE OF THE ACUTAL ATTACK!!!!
HELLO!!!

pulling into a Qana house in a TRUCK.

The rockets fired were from a house/building where a truck pulled in and fired 4 rockets. That house was in Qana. It was a 3 story building the truck pulled into and the building Israel hit they THOUGHT was the same 3 story building. The video is NOT a video of the Israeli attack! It's a video of a Hezbollah truck, being lead to a 3 story building by a man on a motor cycle and 4 rockets are fired off FROM HEZBOLLAH. THE 3 story building is in QANA.

building...

Not the acutal building they hit.

just heard it

Turn on FAUX and I hate FAUX.

Just to make sure. The video shows HezBollah firing from a similar building to the one the IDF hit. Not the building the IDF hit that also brought down the one that killed the people.

Don't think I'm beating this to death.

I see the same bullshit skidmarks on this I saw with Iraq.

Take what you see for what it is worth...an administration trying to cover for failed foriegn policy that ends in a war that no one can win.

Damn I was right. Do not trust them - one more Snow job.

and 4 rockets fired off from that building in Qana. The building they were trying to hit is the one the rockets were fired from but they hit the wrong target.

Examine your evidence.

What are you basing your statement on exactly?

I know, I know...Israel kies to kill innocent civilians.:eyes: What have they gained by this, but outrage? The accusations around here are ridiculous.

attack. Not the ACTUAL ATTACK.

So. Make sure you know that.

:shrug: What the hell are you talking about?

what was hit. What do you base that on. There is no thing in the video that shows proximity. The IDF asserted it too. I guess we should just take your and their words for that fact?

Your "source" - Which is?

motorcycle, the truck pulled into the Qana 3 story building. Soon thereafter 4 rockets were fired. Israel was trying to hit that 3 story building. That is what I just watched on MSNBC. Take it or leave it. That's what I saw and that's what the Generals said.

Turn on FAUX.

I was watching the lies too. Pure spin from beginning to end.

listening, watching the video and typing. It's called muti-tasking.

This attack that resulted in the deaths of 50 or more civilians is in your opinion acceptable?

I will say that it doesn't in any way absolve Israel for the murder of 50+ civilians, many of them children.

is the same as buying a Snow job. They can spin away.

add.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

All this back and forth, always intent on acknowledging an attrocity only by quickly posting a rebuttal story or horror filled photo...:shrug:


I'm sick of the violence. I'm sick of the violence to come. I'm sick of the justifications for the violence. No one is wearing white hats in this. No ones hands are clean.

on civilians. I have pointed out several times how absurd it would be if Hezbollah used the same excuses the IDF is using, that is about as near as I've gotten. Saying that it is just a case of he said she said is ducking the issue. Every atrocity by the IDF is promptly followed by grotesque explanations of why it is acceptible to murder civilians. I am sick of the folks telling my why barbarism is ok, why war crimes are acceptible. I am one of the people who is going to continue to speak out against what is being done in our name with our money by the sick neocon imperialists.

I have observed that you seem to jump to conclusions and frequently seem to be misreading or misinterpreting posts as are many here given the heightened emotions. In no way was I saying what you seem to think I was saying. Calling for an end of violence and expressing sincere frustration at what is happening does not equate to siding against your stated point of view (nor conversely does it mean the opposite with respect to Israel). I am in no way attacking you or your views. I want us to be able to discuss what is happening and hopefully all agree on a need to stop the violence. Surely we can agree on some level that further violence, further attrocities, further killing of civilians (on either side) is not something to be
defended. It needs to stop.

"All this back and forth, always intent on acknowledging an attrocity only by quickly posting a rebuttal story or horror filled photo.."

As if there are a bunch of Hezbollah supporters on DU posting justifications for Hezbollah atrocities in this war (of which there have been hardly any, not that they haven't tried) and a bunch of Israel supporters posting justifications for Israeli atrocities. Well there are in fact a bunch of Israeli supporters, as for example this revolting, sickening thread, who are routinely and persistently posting justification after justification for the endless stream of atrocities being commited against the Lebanese people. There simply are not, as far as I know, the equivalent posts in support of Hezbollah.

I am sorry if that is not what you meant. I woke up this morning to learn of the massacre in Qana. My skin is beyond thin at this point and I have zero tolerance for the posters here who are, as far as I am concerned, working for the dark side, and for those who think that this is just a bad disagreement within DU that we should stop talking about so we can all get along again. Perhaps a cheery round of Kumbaya and a group hug will solve this mess?

I can assure you that I am feeling very much the stress, sensitivies, emotions, and even depression at these events. I am very very angry at our own government and their inept foreign policies and lack of diplomatic understanding that is clearly making the situation worse.

I agree that no one here is supporting or defending Hezbollah. I think that goes without saying. When these horrific Lebanese civilian deaths have occurred and photos posted it is quite natural that those who are most intensely defensive of Israel would feel a need to then post similar horrific photos of Israeli civilians to remind all. But by doing so, it starts this back and forth defensive pattern that seems to drive a wedge between DUers who can surely acknowledge the horror of suffering among civilians on both sides...

or imminent threat and in keeping with the Geneva conventions that the US not only signed, but promulgated with the world community. That means taking all possible steps, not only to protect civilians, but most certainly not to intentionally target them. It also means not constructing false threats or reasons---in order to engage in a war of convenience, economic benefits, or for other non-defense objectives.

land barrier between Hezbollah and their rockets. Do you disagree with this?

AFTER the cease fire--one that needs to be immediate and unconditional.

to start bombing them again?

I think Israel knows what the result of the peace negotions would be and is being proactive in moving Hezbollah back and destroying there ability to make was againts Israel.

necessary for the civilians to be moved from that area. It has been reported that the UN was refused three days to try to help evacuate these civilians. If that is true, it is unconscionable, IMO and would lead credence to a very conscious strategy to exploit civilians by both sides...

about this subject. I think I need to lay down for a bit.

Sorry to blow your mind...

taking that ceasefire to try to do more damage to Israel. :(

These people (on both sides) give us no good answers or solutions.

Just asking.

If there is really sincere intent on stopping the violence, while simultaneously improving the security of Israel, I'd expect a true "honest" broker to consider this as well. The problem, as I see it is that the behind-the-scenes players (i.e., US, Iran, others...) have their own unspoken objectives and spoken or not, they are influencing everything. It has been reported that US is trying to get Israel to bomb Syria... I frankly wouldn't put that past the Neocons... One would hope that the Israeli government is smarter than that. They, after all, would pay the price, for doing the US' bidding...

And, this isn't a terrorist group who would be ceding land... it would be a sovereign nations. LIke if the US took over part of Ontario because if Canada had a group lobbing rockets into Niagara Falls.

on their side. Why should the buffer be in someone else's country. Lebanon will not give up the Litani river.

recently. Perhaps then you'll get some perspective.

You must be on one side or other...or you are treated as an opponent...

It is possible to acknowledge Israel's right to exist and defend itself without condoning it's actions...

It is possible to criticize Israel without aping Hezbollah and Syrian talking points...

Just not here apparently...

Which ones? Like that the IDF is killing civilians? That talking point?

There is an entire thread questioning Israel's right to exist...

Several saying they "understood" Hezbollah's reaction...

Downplaying Hezbollah atrocities

Which threads. Be specific. You've accused us of mouthing Hezbollah talking points and when asked you have said 'take a look around'. That doesn't exactly make your case.

Which Hezbollah atrocities have been downplayed in which threads?

Understanding Hezbollah's reaction to having the shit blown out of Lebanon is not exactly mouthing Hezbollah talking points.

I was making a general point...

However...here is a thread begun to question Israel's right to exist...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1769964&mesg_id=1769964

Hezbollah is not Lebanon...Hezbollah is a parasite that has latched itself to Lebanaon,and Lebanon is not strong enough to do anyting about it...

Hezbollah is not a legitimate organization, but one that uses terror, kidnapping and random attack of civilians to achieve its ends...

I believe Israel is criminally negligent in this situation...but that does not mean they do not have the right to self-defense against terrorists...


And this sub-thread is making my point...no middle ground...you are either pro-Israel or anti-Israel othewise you are attacked..

I guess it just mirrors the wider public reaction to these events, and shows why any progress in the area has become so difficult.

I suspect some of those comments are fueled by these emotions, rather than reflecting true belief. I certainly hope so.

I support Israel AND I support the innocent citizens of Lebanon. Likewise I support those who sincerely seek a peaceful future among the Palestinians in Gaza. Despite being faced with tremendous challenges to defend themselves against very real threats, I believe Israel has made horrific mistakes. Whether accidental or a conscious decision based on necessity, these resultant civilian deaths of children will move many of even their most ardent supporters to question support for Israel--not their right to exist, certainly, but whether that support can be unconditional. Just as the US has played into the hands of our detractors and certainly our enemies, in our preemptive war in Iraq and our questionable methods to fight "terrorism" since 911, IDF is slowly turning much world opinion against them and is playing right into their enemies' hands by their tactics which fail to show concern and protection for innocent civilians. Certainly they may be quite correct in that Hezbollah has embedded their missiles and fighters among these civilians and that makes recourse for Israel very difficult. But the price Israel will pay long term in backlash from a decision to go ahead and attack these targets, rather than try to find another strategy, is going to haunt them (and the US) for decades to come.

My viewpoint does not reflect one that is strictly in one "camp" or the other. Yet, it seems that I am assumed to be on one side or the other and placed in that "box." I believe many DUers are similarly finding that to be the case. I'm frustrated by this because it has caused a schizm that ends all fruitful discussion. If we can not discuss these issues without segregating into opposing camps, how can we expect diplomacy to win out where it most counts? :shrug:

And I believe reflective of the actual situation.

or the talking points that the hezzies are, all of a sudden...a social force for good. BS. the christians want them out of lebanon but they as in many other countries are afraid of their numbers and their uncontrolled violence. what we have as in paris, london, malmo, malaga, berlin and frankfurt is appeasement of islam out of fear.

Oh, and go stroke yourself.

you really tip your hand here with the "appeasement of islam" BS.

video no matter what because it comes from the IDF. So, yes. DU is at war. IDF is bad no matter what they do and Hezbollah is innocent in this whole matter. It's VERY one-sided here, in case you haven't noticed and the double standard is mind boggling.

just that Israel and it's apoligists are gonna drag us into a goddam world war.

for this escalation and I'm damn tired of all the HEZBOLLAH apologists. It's sickening.



Hezbollah Terrorist Attacks Since May 2000*

*Israel's unilateral withdrawal from southern Lebanon

Compiled by Mitchell Bard

(July 24, 2006)



12 Jul 2006 - Hezbollah terrorists infiltrated into Israeli territory and attacked two IDF armored jeeps patrolling the border with Lebanon, killing three soldiers and kidnapping two. Ground forces entered Lebanon in the area of the attack. A large explosive device was detonated underneath an Israeli tank, killing all four of the tank crew. An eighth soldier was killed when IDF troops entered Lebanon to try to retrieve the bodies of the tank crew. Throughout the day, Hezbollah terror organization fired Katyusha rockets and mortar shells at Israel's northern borders' communities and IDF posts.

27 May 2006 - An IDF soldier was wounded when Katyushas were fired at an army base at Mt. Meron in the upper Galilee.

27 Dec 2005 - A branch of a Palestinian organization connected to Al-Qaida fired 6 Katyushas, damaging a house in Kiryat Shmona and a house in Metulla. In response, the IAF attacked a training base of the Popular Front, south of Beirut.

21 Nov 2005 - An attempt to kidnap an IDF soldier was foiled when paratroopers patrolling near Rajar village discerned a Hezbollah unit approaching. Private David Markovitz opened fire, killing all four. In a heavy attack of mortars and Katyusha rockets that ensued, nine soldiers and and two civilians were injured.

29 Jun 2005 - More than 20 mortars were fired from across the border. Cpl. Uzi Peretz of the Golani Brigade was killed and four soldiers wounded, including the unit's doctor. Fire was exchanged and helicopters and planes attacked five Hezbollah outposts in the Reches Ramim area.

24 Apr 2005 - Several explosive devices exploded near the Lebanese-Israeli border, in the Mount Dov area. Officials believe the devices were planted by Hezbollah, but this was not confirmed. No injuries were reported in the explosions.

7 Apr 2005 - Two Israeli-Arabs from the village of Rajar near the Israel-Lebanon border were kidnapped by Hezbollah operatives and held in captivity for four days. The men, identified as Muki Ben-Jamal and Nuef Maharj Ben-Ali, said they were interrogated by their captors who wanted information on Israel. They were later released. Israeli officials did not believe that any security information had been compromised.

9 Jan 2005 - An explosive device was detonated against an IDF patrol at Nahal Sion. One Israeli soldier was killed, and a UN officer was killed.

20 Jul 2004 - Hezbollah sniper fired at an IDF post in the western sector of the Israeli-Lebanese border. Two IDF soldiers were killed.

7 May 2004 - Fire in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Dennis Leminov was killed, and two other soldiers were severely wounded. The IDF returned fire.

19 Jan 2004 - An anti-tank missile was fired at IDF D9 while neutralizing explosive charges near Zari't. An IDF soldier, Yan Rotzenski, was killed and another soldier was severely wounded.

6 Oct 2003 - Staff Sgt. David Solomonov was killed when Hezbollah fired at an IDF force south of the =46atma Gate in the eastern sector. In addition, the Hezbollah fired missiles and rockets at an IDF post in the Reches Ramim area.

10 Aug 2003 - Haviv Dadon, 16, of Shlomi, was struck in the chest and killed by shrapnel from an anti-aircraft shell fired by Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon. Four others were wounded.

20 Jul 2003 - Hezbollah snipers fired on an Israeli outpost near Chetula, killing two Israeli soldiers. The IDF retaliated with tank fire directed at a Hezbollah position, killing one operative manning the post. That night, there were multiple Israeli flights over Lebanon, two of which generated powerful sonic booms over Beirut.

7 May 2003 - Hezbollah attacked IDF positions in the Sheba' farms with heavy rocket, mortar, and small arms fire. One Israeli soldier was killed and five others were wounded in the attack. Lebanese authorities asserted that the Hezbollah firing had been preceded by an Israeli army foot patrol crossing the Blue Line.

5 May 2003 - A cycle of armed exchanges across the Blue Line began. Israel carried out more than 20 air sorties over the country. Subsequently, Hezbollah fired several anti-aircraft rounds with shrapnel landing inside Israel.

22 Mar 2003 - Hezbollah fired rockets and mortars at Israeli army positions in the Sheba' farms and adjacent areas. This attack followed eight incursions into Lebanese airspace by Israeli aircraft.

6 Jan 2003 - Hezbollah fired anti aircraft shells in the vicinity of Birait in the western sector of the Lebanese border. No one was hurt and no damage was caused.

29 Aug 2002 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Ofer Misali was killed, and two other soldiers were lightly wounded.

12 Mar 2002 - Infiltration: In a shooting attack on the Shlomi- Metzuba route. Six Israelis civilians were killed, among them IDF officer Lt. German Rojkov.

7 Aug 2001 - Two houses belonging to senior members of the former Israeli-allied South Lebanon Army militia were blown up using explosive devices. One of the houses belonged to Robin Abboud; the other to Samir Raslan. Hezbollah is suspected.

28 Apr 2001 - A 60 year-old Israeli man was found stabbed to death in Kfar Ba'aneh, near Carmiel in Galilee. The terrorists responsible for the attack were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of the organization.

14 Apr 2001 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Elad Litvak was killed.

1 Apr 2001 - A 42 year-old Israeli woman was stabbed to death in Haifa. Her murder was the initiation rite of a terrorist cell, whose members were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder, originally thought to be criminally motivated, were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of one of the terrorists into the organization.

16 Feb 2001- Fire at an IDF convoy on Mt. Dov. IDF soldier Elad Shneor was killed, and three other soldiers were wounded.

26 Nov 2000 - A charge was detonated near an IDF convoy. IDF soldier Khalil Taher was killed and two other soldiers were wounded.

7 Oct 2000 - Kidnapping: Three IDF soldiers: Adi Avitan, Omer Soued and Binyamin Avraham were kidnapped by the Hezbollah from the Mt. Dov sector.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sources: Ministry of Foreign Affairs; Ministry of Foreign Affairs Summary of Events; RAND Terrorism Database; The Institute for Counter-Terrorism; U.S. State Department Report on Human Rights Practices for 2004


http://www.aijac.org.au/resources/hezb_00-06.html

terror in the middle east.

Israel and US policy is helping INCREASE radical islam in the mid east. They are leading us into a clash of civilizations.

Israel didn't start this mess.

August 20, 1937 - June 29, 1939. During this period, the Zionists carried out a series of attacks against Arab buses, resulting in the death of 24 persons and wounding 25 others.

November 25, 1940. S.S.Patria was blown up by Jewish terrorists in Haifa harbour, killing 268 illegal Jewish immigrants (see below).

November 6, 1944. Zionist terrorists of the Stern Gang assassinated the British Minister Resident in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, in Cairo.

July 22, 1946. Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which housed the central offices of the civilian administration of the government of Palestine, killing or injuring more than 200 persons. The Irgun officially claimed responsibility for the incident, but subsequent evidence indicated that both the Haganah and the Jewish Agency were involved.

October 1, 1946. The British Embassy in Rome was badly damaged by bomb explosions, for which Irgun claimed responsibility.

June 1947. Letters sent to British Cabinet Ministers were found to contain bombs.

September 3, 1947. A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs. (The Sunday Times, Sept. 24, 1972, p.8)

December 11, 1947. Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.

December 13,1947. Zionist terrorists, believed to be members of Irgun Zvai Leumi, killed 18 Arabs and wounded nearly 60 in Jerusalem, Jaffa and Lydda areas. In Jerusalem, bombs were thrown in an Arab market-place near the Damascus Gate; in Jaffa, bombs were thrown into an Arab cafe; in the Arab village of Al Abbasya, near Lydda, 12 Arabs were killed in an attack with mortars and automatic weapons.

December 19, 1947. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blowing up two houses, in the ruins of which were found the bodies of 10 Arabs, including 5 children. Haganah admitted responsibility for the attack.

December 29, 1947. Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.

December 30,1947. A mixed force of the Zionist Palmach and the "Carmel Brigade" attacked the village of Balad al Sheikh, killing more than 60 Arabs.

1947 -- 1948. Over 700,000 Palestinian Arabs were uprooted from their homes and land, and forced to live in refugee camps on Israel's borders. They have been denied the right to return to their homes. They have been refused compensation for their homes, orchards, farms and other property stolen from them by the Israeli government. After their expulsion, the "Israeli Forces" totally obliterated (usually by bulldozing) 385 Arab villages and towns, out of a total of 475. Commonly, Israeli villages were built on the remaining rubble.

January 1, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked a village on the slopes of Mount Carmel; 17 Arabs were killed and 33 wounded.

January 4, 1948. Haganah terrorists wearing British Army uniforms penetrated into the center of Jaffa and blew up the Serai (the old Turkish Government House) which was used as a headquarters of the Arab National Committee, killing more than 40 persons and wounding 98 others.

January 5, 1948. The Arab-owned Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem was blown up, killing 20 persons, among them Viscount de Tapia, the Spanish Consul. Haganah admitted responsibility for this crime.

January 7, 1948. Seventeen Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem, 3 of them while trying to escape. Further casualties, including the murder of a British officer near Hebron, were reported from different parts of the country.

January 16, 1948. Zionists blew up three Arab buildings. In the first, 8 children between the ages of 18 months and 12 years, died.

December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948. Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others.

February 15, 1948. Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blew up several houses, killing 11 Arabs, including 4 children..

March 3, 1948. Heavy damage was done to the Arab-owned Salam building in Haifa (a 7 story block of apartments and shops) by Zionists who drove an army lorry ( truck) up to the building and escaped before the detonation of 400 Ib. of explosives; casualties numbered 11 Arabs and 3 Armenians killed and 23 injured. The Stern Gang claimed responsibility for the incident.

March 22, 1948. A housing block in Iraq Street in Haifa was blown up killing 17 and injuring 100 others. Four members of the Stern Gang drove two truck-loads of explosives into the street and abandoned the vehicles before the explosion.

March 31, 1948. The Cairo-Haifa Express was mined, for the second time in a month, by an electronically-detonated land mine near Benyamina, killing 40 persons and wounding 60 others.

April 9, 1948. A combined force of Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang, supported by the Palmach forces, captured the Arab village of Deir Yassin and killed more than 200 unarmed civilians, including countless women and children. Older men and young women were captured and paraded in chains in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem; 20 of the hostages were then shot in the quarry of Gevaat Shaul.

April 16, 1948. Zionists attacked the former British army camp at Tel Litvinsky, killing 90 Arabs there.

April 19, 1948. Fourteen Arabs were killed in a house in Tiberias, which was blown up by Zionist terrorists.

May 3, 1948. A book bomb addressed to a British Army officer, who had been stationed in Palestine exploded, killing his brother, Rex Farran.

May11, 1948. A letter bomb addressed to Sir Evelyn Barker, former Commanding Officer in Palestine, was detected in the nick of time by his wife.

April 25, 1948 -- May 13, 1948. Wholesale looting of Jaffa was carried out following armed attacks by Irgun and Haganah terrorists. They stripped and carried away everything they could, destroying what they could not take with them.

Hezbollah Terrorist Attacks Since May 2000*

*Israel's unilateral withdrawal from southern Lebanon

Compiled by Mitchell Bard

(July 24, 2006)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

24 Jul 2006 - Hezbollah fired more than 70 Katyusha rockets into Israel, several of which landed in Nahariya, Safed, and Kiryat Shmona. Medics treated at least 49 people who were lightly to moderately wounded. More than 2200 rockets have been fired at Israeli cities since July 12, killing 17 Israelis, all of them civilians. 20 Israeli soldiers were killed in other incidents.

23 Jul 2006 - Shimon Glickblich, 60, of Haifa was killed Sunday morning (11:00) while driving his car in Haifa. Habib Isa Awad, 48, of Iblin, was killed while working in the carpentry shop in Kiryat Ata. Another 12 were wounded in the morning barrage in Haifa, and more later in the day as over 90 rockets were fired at Haifa, Akko, Kiryat Shmona, and elsewhere in northern Israel.

20 Jul 2006 - Five IDF soldiers were killed and five wounded in continuing exchanges of fire in the Lebanese village of Maroun al-Ras, near Avivim, where two soldiers were killed on Wednesday. The body of the fifth soldier, St.-Sgt. Yonatan (Sergei) Vlasyuk, 21, of Kibbutz Lahav was retrieved on July 22. At 16, Yonatan immigrated alone to Israel through the Jewish Agency's "Na'aleh" program. He was adopted by Dalia Gal, a member of Kibbutz Lahav in the Negev. An IDF officer was killed and three soldiers were wounded as two Apache (Cobra) combat helicopters on their way to Lebanon to assist IDF forces operating against Hezbollah terrorists near Avivim collided and then crashed south of Kiryat Shmona.

19 Jul 2006 - St.-Sgt. Yonatan Hadasi, 21, of Kibbutz Merhavia and St.-Sgt. Yotam Gilboa, 21, of Kibbutz Maoz Haim were killed and nine soldiers were wounded in exchanges of fire between IDF and Hezbollah in south Lebanon, near Moshav Avivim. The Israeli force had crossed the border to destroy the Hezbollah rocket-launching position at the former IDF outpost of Shaked. Rabia Abed Taluzi (3) and his brother Mahmoud (7) who were playing soccer outside their house were killed and dozens were wounded in two Katyusha rocket attacks on the Israeli Arab city of Nazareth.

18 Jul 2006 - Andrei Zelinksy, 36, was killed Tuesday evening in Nahariya outside a bomb shelter. Though he managed to save his family by rushing them into the shelter, he returned home to get a blanket for his daughter and was killed. Some 130 rockets were fired at the north on Tuesday, 100 of them within one hour and a half - also landing in the Haifa area, Karmiel, Tiberias, Safed, Maalot and Rosh Pina. About 60 people injured were evacuated to hospitals in Safed and Nahariya.

17 Jul 2006 - Over 50 rockets were fired towards the eastern and upper Galilee on Monday night. A Katyusha rocket hit the external wall of the Rebecca Sieff Hospital in Safed, causing damage to infrastructure; five patients, two doctors and two other hospital employees were injured. Earlier, 11 people were wounded in Haifa when a 3-story apartment building was hit by missile. The Israel Air Force destroyed at least ten long-range Iranian-made missiles capable of hitting Tel Aviv, by targeting a Hezbollah truck carrying the missiles before they could be launched. To date, missiles have been fired up to 40 kilometers into Israel.

16 Jul 2006 - Eight killed, 50 wounded in Hezbollah rocket attack on Haifa - Rockets began falling on the Haifa area shortly after 9:00 a.m. Eight employees of Israel Railways at the Haifa train depot were killed in a direct hit by a Fajar missile made in Syria. A total of over 50 people were wounded in Haifa and the Haifa Bay area.

15 Jul 2006 - Katyusha rockets landed for the first time in Tiberias, located 35 kilometers from the Lebanese border on the Sea of Galilee, as well as in nearby communities.

14 Jul 2006 - Shortly after 8:30 p.m. =46riday night an Israeli navy ship was severely damaged by an Iran-manufactured missile fired by Hezbollah. Four IDF soldiers were killed: Staff Sgt. Tal Amgar, 21, of Ashdod; Yaniv Hershkovitz, 21, of Haifa; Shai Atias, 19, ofRishon Lezion; and Dov Steinshuss, 37, of Karmiel. Omer Pesachov, 7, of Nahariya, and his grandmother Yehudit Itzkovitch, 58, of Moshav Meron were killed by a Katyusha rocket in Meron early Friday evening. Roni, Omer's older sister, was badly wounded, and the grandfather, Naftali, was lightly hurt. The family had fled the Katyushas in Nahariya to spend a quiet weekend with their grandparents.

13 Jul 2006 - Monica Seidman (Lehrer), 40, of Nahariya was killed in her home by a Katyusha rocket Thursday morning. In the evening, Nitzan Roseban, 33, was killed in Safed by a direct rocket hit. On Thursday evening Katyushas landed in Haifa.

12 Jul 2006 - Hezbollah terrorists infiltrated into Israeli territory and attacked two IDF armored jeeps patrolling the border with Lebanon, killing three soldiers and kidnapping two. Ground forces entered Lebanon in the area of the attack. A large explosive device was detonated underneath an Israeli tank, killing all four of the tank crew. An eighth soldier was killed when IDF troops entered Lebanon to try to retrieve the bodies of the tank crew. Throughout the day, Hezbollah terror organization fired Katyusha rockets and mortar shells at Israel's northern borders' communities and IDF posts.

27 May 2006 - An IDF soldier was wounded when Katyushas were fired at an army base at Mt. Meron in the upper Galilee.

27 Dec 2005 - A branch of a Palestinian organization connected to Al-Qaida fired 6 Katyushas, damaging a house in Kiryat Shmona and a house in Metulla. In response, the IAF attacked a training base of the Popular Front, south of Beirut.

21 Nov 2005 - An attempt to kidnap an IDF soldier was foiled when paratroopers patrolling near Rajar village discerned a Hezbollah unit approaching. Private David Markovitz opened fire, killing all four. In a heavy attack of mortars and Katyusha rockets that ensued, nine soldiers and and two civilians were injured.

29 Jun 2005 - More than 20 mortars were fired from across the border. Cpl. Uzi Peretz of the Golani Brigade was killed and four soldiers wounded, including the unit's doctor. Fire was exchanged and helicopters and planes attacked five Hezbollah outposts in the Reches Ramim area.

24 Apr 2005 - Several explosive devices exploded near the Lebanese-Israeli border, in the Mount Dov area. Officials believe the devices were planted by Hezbollah, but this was not confirmed. No injuries were reported in the explosions.

7 Apr 2005 - Two Israeli-Arabs from the village of Rajar near the Israel-Lebanon border were kidnapped by Hezbollah operatives and held in captivity for four days. The men, identified as Muki Ben-Jamal and Nuef Maharj Ben-Ali, said they were interrogated by their captors who wanted information on Israel. They were later released. Israeli officials did not believe that any security information had been compromised.

9 Jan 2005 - An explosive device was detonated against an IDF patrol at Nahal Sion. One Israeli soldier was killed, and a UN officer was killed.

20 Jul 2004 - Hezbollah sniper fired at an IDF post in the western sector of the Israeli-Lebanese border. Two IDF soldiers were killed.

7 May 2004 - Fire in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Dennis Leminov was killed, and two other soldiers were severely wounded. The IDF returned fire.

19 Jan 2004 - An anti-tank missile was fired at IDF D9 while neutralizing explosive charges near Zari't. An IDF soldier, Yan Rotzenski, was killed and another soldier was severely wounded.

6 Oct 2003 - Staff Sgt. David Solomonov was killed when Hezbollah fired at an IDF force south of the =46atma Gate in the eastern sector. In addition, the Hezbollah fired missiles and rockets at an IDF post in the Reches Ramim area.

10 Aug 2003 - Haviv Dadon, 16, of Shlomi, was struck in the chest and killed by shrapnel from an anti-aircraft shell fired by Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon. Four others were wounded.

20 Jul 2003 - Hezbollah snipers fired on an Israeli outpost near Chetula, killing two Israeli soldiers. The IDF retaliated with tank fire directed at a Hezbollah position, killing one operative manning the post. That night, there were multiple Israeli flights over Lebanon, two of which generated powerful sonic booms over Beirut.

7 May 2003 - Hezbollah attacked IDF positions in the Sheba' farms with heavy rocket, mortar, and small arms fire. One Israeli soldier was killed and five others were wounded in the attack. Lebanese authorities asserted that the Hezbollah firing had been preceded by an Israeli army foot patrol crossing the Blue Line.

5 May 2003 - A cycle of armed exchanges across the Blue Line began. Israel carried out more than 20 air sorties over the country. Subsequently, Hezbollah fired several anti-aircraft rounds with shrapnel landing inside Israel.

22 Mar 2003 - Hezbollah fired rockets and mortars at Israeli army positions in the Sheba' farms and adjacent areas. This attack followed eight incursions into Lebanese airspace by Israeli aircraft.

6 Jan 2003 - Hezbollah fired anti aircraft shells in the vicinity of Birait in the western sector of the Lebanese border. No one was hurt and no damage was caused.

29 Aug 2002 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Ofer Misali was killed, and two other soldiers were lightly wounded.

12 Mar 2002 - Infiltration: In a shooting attack on the Shlomi- Metzuba route. Six Israelis civilians were killed, among them IDF officer Lt. German Rojkov.

7 Aug 2001 - Two houses belonging to senior members of the former Israeli-allied South Lebanon Army militia were blown up using explosive devices. One of the houses belonged to Robin Abboud; the other to Samir Raslan. Hezbollah is suspected.

28 Apr 2001 - A 60 year-old Israeli man was found stabbed to death in Kfar Ba'aneh, near Carmiel in Galilee. The terrorists responsible for the attack were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of the organization.

14 Apr 2001 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Elad Litvak was killed.

1 Apr 2001 - A 42 year-old Israeli woman was stabbed to death in Haifa. Her murder was the initiation rite of a terrorist cell, whose members were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder, originally thought to be criminally motivated, were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of one of the terrorists into the organization.

16 Feb 2001- Fire at an IDF convoy on Mt. Dov. IDF soldier Elad Shneor was killed, and three other soldiers were wounded.

26 Nov 2000 - A charge was detonated near an IDF convoy. IDF soldier Khalil Taher was killed and two other soldiers were wounded.

7 Oct 2000 - Kidnapping: Three IDF soldiers: Adi Avitan, Omer Soued and Binyamin Avraham were kidnapped by the Hezbollah from the Mt. Dov sector.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sources: Ministry of Foreign Affairs; Ministry of Foreign Affairs Summary of Events; RAND Terrorism Database; The Institute for Counter-Terrorism; U.S. State Department Report on Human Rights Practices for 2004


http://www.aijac.org.au/resources/hezb_00-06.html

to my way of thinking, as terrorism.

I notice that virtually everything that you have listed involves attacks on military rather than civilian targets. The exception to this is the long list of incidents that have happened since the current outbreak of hostilities between the two sides, when a handfull of civilians have been hit with unguided rockets.

You seem to be suggesting that any attack on IDF forces constitutes terrorism by definition, even when those forces initiated the exchange.



You really consider it terrorism to fire anti-aircraft weapons in response to Israeli air sorties into Lebanese territory?

I always thought terrorism meant attacks deliberately targeted at civilians.

Declaration.:eyes:

Hezbollah is responsible for this escalation. NOT Israel.

and support the actions of the Israeli government this morning.

I am trying to point out your DOUBLE STANDARD.

Everyone here holds Israel to a standard they don't hold Hamas, Hezbollah and anti-Israel countries to. Is THAT fair? NO. It is not.

I want PEACE in Israel. It will NEVER happen as long as Hezbollah and Hamas are allowed to carry out their promise of annihilating Israel and killing every Jew, which many here are supporting.

I am yet to find anyone on DU who advocates "annihilating Israel and killing every Jew". This is in your imagination.

Israel SHOULD be held to a higher standard as it is a recognized nation (who happens to recieve our taxpayer dollars and weapons) than a radical Islamist militia.

Would you hold the LAPD and the crips or latin kings to the same standard???

I like most Americans am terrified of radical Islam. It is intolerantand against everything I stand for. However the actions of the Israeli government in Lebanon (like the US invasion of Iraq) are the best recruiting posters for radical groups like hezbollah and al-queda.

PLEASE SEE THIS AND STOP BLIND SUPPORT FOR ISRAELI ACTIONS.

NOT ONE anti-Israel DUer will admit to ever witnessing the:

1. Thread calling for the annihilation of Israel

2. poster who posted: "HELL YES! I support Hezbollah!"

3. Poster who posted "Hezbollah is NOT unjustified in doing what they are doing."

and many, many, many more posts JUST LIKE THESE (since deleted by mods)....then we can toss in not ONE thread, but TWO threads posting PAT BUCHANAN'S Op-Ed piece against Israel with DUers FAWNING OVER HIM! One of the biggest damn BIGOTS to walk this earth and DUers just LOVED HIM.

At least you admit Israel should accept the endless rockets killing their citizens, destroying their towns, killing their soldiers, kidnapping their soldiers, the suicide bombers on buses, the suicide bombers at discos, the suicide bombers at the fruit markets and the suicide bombers at restaurants.

That's just insane logic. Insane for ISRAEL to be EXPECTED to accept that. No other country in this world is expected to accept what Israel has had to endure...NONE.

YOU hear THIS...HEZBOLLAH AND HAMAS HAVE SAID THEY WILL NEVER STOP THE KILLING UNTIL EVERY JEW IS RUN INTO THE SEA AND DEAD. HAMAS AND HEZBOLLAH HAVE SAID THEY WILL NEVER RECOGNIZE ISRAEL AS A SOVEREIGN STATE.

How is Israel suppose to deal with THAT mindset? Please. Put yourself in the Israeli's situation. How would you like living with rockets flying at YOUR house every damn day of the week? How would you like YOUR child blown up by a suicide bomber? How would YOU like your town turned into a ghost town because of all the rockets fire at it? How would you like to live in a bomb shelter for 10 weeks at a time? Anti-Israel people don't seem to give a rats ass what Israel has had to live through.

This one-sided anti-Israel crap is beyond UNFAIR....it's BIZARRE.

im surprised you didn't call me an anti-semite.

>>It will NEVER happen as long as Hezbollah and Hamas are allowed to carry out their promise of annihilating Israel and killing every Jew, which many here are supporting.

Peace will happen when Israel obeys International law and stops its illegal settlements. Even as we speak more illegal settlements are being constructed in the occupied territories. Olmert wants to colonize the Jordan valley so he can annex it for "security purposes."

While the terrorism of Hamas is wrong, it pales in comparison to Israel's brutality. Israel has killed three times as many Palestinians in the conflict as the other way around, and every human rights group that has looked at the conflict--Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, B'Tsleem (based in Israel), and the UN Human Rights groups have found Israel guilty of "deliberate killing" and "torture."

Blaming Hamas is like blaming the Native Americans for their violence against the American Government.

"The devil made me do it", is not a defense reasonable people will entertain.

Hezbollah is responsible for this. The blood of EVERY Lebanese is on THEIR hands. You must have missed all the rockets that hit Israel today.


Hezbollah Terrorist Attacks Since May 2000*

*Israel's unilateral withdrawal from southern Lebanon

Compiled by Mitchell Bard

(July 24, 2006)




12 Jul 2006 - Hezbollah terrorists infiltrated into Israeli territory and attacked two IDF armored jeeps patrolling the border with Lebanon, killing three soldiers and kidnapping two. Ground forces entered Lebanon in the area of the attack. A large explosive device was detonated underneath an Israeli tank, killing all four of the tank crew. An eighth soldier was killed when IDF troops entered Lebanon to try to retrieve the bodies of the tank crew. Throughout the day, Hezbollah terror organization fired Katyusha rockets and mortar shells at Israel's northern borders' communities and IDF posts.

27 May 2006 - An IDF soldier was wounded when Katyushas were fired at an army base at Mt. Meron in the upper Galilee.

27 Dec 2005 - A branch of a Palestinian organization connected to Al-Qaida fired 6 Katyushas, damaging a house in Kiryat Shmona and a house in Metulla. In response, the IAF attacked a training base of the Popular Front, south of Beirut.

21 Nov 2005 - An attempt to kidnap an IDF soldier was foiled when paratroopers patrolling near Rajar village discerned a Hezbollah unit approaching. Private David Markovitz opened fire, killing all four. In a heavy attack of mortars and Katyusha rockets that ensued, nine soldiers and and two civilians were injured.

29 Jun 2005 - More than 20 mortars were fired from across the border. Cpl. Uzi Peretz of the Golani Brigade was killed and four soldiers wounded, including the unit's doctor. Fire was exchanged and helicopters and planes attacked five Hezbollah outposts in the Reches Ramim area.

24 Apr 2005 - Several explosive devices exploded near the Lebanese-Israeli border, in the Mount Dov area. Officials believe the devices were planted by Hezbollah, but this was not confirmed. No injuries were reported in the explosions.

7 Apr 2005 - Two Israeli-Arabs from the village of Rajar near the Israel-Lebanon border were kidnapped by Hezbollah operatives and held in captivity for four days. The men, identified as Muki Ben-Jamal and Nuef Maharj Ben-Ali, said they were interrogated by their captors who wanted information on Israel. They were later released. Israeli officials did not believe that any security information had been compromised.

9 Jan 2005 - An explosive device was detonated against an IDF patrol at Nahal Sion. One Israeli soldier was killed, and a UN officer was killed.

20 Jul 2004 - Hezbollah sniper fired at an IDF post in the western sector of the Israeli-Lebanese border. Two IDF soldiers were killed.

7 May 2004 - Fire in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Dennis Leminov was killed, and two other soldiers were severely wounded. The IDF returned fire.

19 Jan 2004 - An anti-tank missile was fired at IDF D9 while neutralizing explosive charges near Zari't. An IDF soldier, Yan Rotzenski, was killed and another soldier was severely wounded.

6 Oct 2003 - Staff Sgt. David Solomonov was killed when Hezbollah fired at an IDF force south of the =46atma Gate in the eastern sector. In addition, the Hezbollah fired missiles and rockets at an IDF post in the Reches Ramim area.

10 Aug 2003 - Haviv Dadon, 16, of Shlomi, was struck in the chest and killed by shrapnel from an anti-aircraft shell fired by Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon. Four others were wounded.

20 Jul 2003 - Hezbollah snipers fired on an Israeli outpost near Chetula, killing two Israeli soldiers. The IDF retaliated with tank fire directed at a Hezbollah position, killing one operative manning the post. That night, there were multiple Israeli flights over Lebanon, two of which generated powerful sonic booms over Beirut.

7 May 2003 - Hezbollah attacked IDF positions in the Sheba' farms with heavy rocket, mortar, and small arms fire. One Israeli soldier was killed and five others were wounded in the attack. Lebanese authorities asserted that the Hezbollah firing had been preceded by an Israeli army foot patrol crossing the Blue Line.

5 May 2003 - A cycle of armed exchanges across the Blue Line began. Israel carried out more than 20 air sorties over the country. Subsequently, Hezbollah fired several anti-aircraft rounds with shrapnel landing inside Israel.

22 Mar 2003 - Hezbollah fired rockets and mortars at Israeli army positions in the Sheba' farms and adjacent areas. This attack followed eight incursions into Lebanese airspace by Israeli aircraft.

6 Jan 2003 - Hezbollah fired anti aircraft shells in the vicinity of Birait in the western sector of the Lebanese border. No one was hurt and no damage was caused.

29 Aug 2002 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Ofer Misali was killed, and two other soldiers were lightly wounded.

12 Mar 2002 - Infiltration: In a shooting attack on the Shlomi- Metzuba route. Six Israelis civilians were killed, among them IDF officer Lt. German Rojkov.

7 Aug 2001 - Two houses belonging to senior members of the former Israeli-allied South Lebanon Army militia were blown up using explosive devices. One of the houses belonged to Robin Abboud; the other to Samir Raslan. Hezbollah is suspected.

28 Apr 2001 - A 60 year-old Israeli man was found stabbed to death in Kfar Ba'aneh, near Carmiel in Galilee. The terrorists responsible for the attack were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of the organization.

14 Apr 2001 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Elad Litvak was killed.

1 Apr 2001 - A 42 year-old Israeli woman was stabbed to death in Haifa. Her murder was the initiation rite of a terrorist cell, whose members were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder, originally thought to be criminally motivated, were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of one of the terrorists into the organization.

16 Feb 2001- Fire at an IDF convoy on Mt. Dov. IDF soldier Elad Shneor was killed, and three other soldiers were wounded.

26 Nov 2000 - A charge was detonated near an IDF convoy. IDF soldier Khalil Taher was killed and two other soldiers were wounded.

7 Oct 2000 - Kidnapping: Three IDF soldiers: Adi Avitan, Omer Soued and Binyamin Avraham were kidnapped by the Hezbollah from the Mt. Dov sector.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sources: Ministry of Foreign Affairs; Ministry of Foreign Affairs Summary of Events; RAND Terrorism Database; The Institute for Counter-Terrorism; U.S. State Department Report on Human Rights Practices for 2004


http://www.aijac.org.au/resources/hezb_00-06.html

1. Israel started the latest round of kidnapping on June 24 when it kidnapped a doctor and his brother in Gaza.

2. Hezbollah did not escalate the situation. They kidnapped two soldiers. That is certainly wrong, but the escallation occurred when Israel waged all out war on Lebanon.

Hamas had been firing rockets and the June 24 incident was in response to the rockets being fired and it was the psycho Nasrallah who went on National TV and declared "open war." Hezbollah is responsible for this as you can witness below.




Hezbollah Terrorist Attacks Since May 2000*

*Israel's unilateral withdrawal from southern Lebanon

Compiled by Mitchell Bard

(July 24, 2006)



12 Jul 2006 - Hezbollah terrorists infiltrated into Israeli territory and attacked two IDF armored jeeps patrolling the border with Lebanon, killing three soldiers and kidnapping two. Ground forces entered Lebanon in the area of the attack. A large explosive device was detonated underneath an Israeli tank, killing all four of the tank crew. An eighth soldier was killed when IDF troops entered Lebanon to try to retrieve the bodies of the tank crew. Throughout the day, Hezbollah terror organization fired Katyusha rockets and mortar shells at Israel's northern borders' communities and IDF posts.

27 May 2006 - An IDF soldier was wounded when Katyushas were fired at an army base at Mt. Meron in the upper Galilee.

27 Dec 2005 - A branch of a Palestinian organization connected to Al-Qaida fired 6 Katyushas, damaging a house in Kiryat Shmona and a house in Metulla. In response, the IAF attacked a training base of the Popular Front, south of Beirut.

21 Nov 2005 - An attempt to kidnap an IDF soldier was foiled when paratroopers patrolling near Rajar village discerned a Hezbollah unit approaching. Private David Markovitz opened fire, killing all four. In a heavy attack of mortars and Katyusha rockets that ensued, nine soldiers and and two civilians were injured.

29 Jun 2005 - More than 20 mortars were fired from across the border. Cpl. Uzi Peretz of the Golani Brigade was killed and four soldiers wounded, including the unit's doctor. Fire was exchanged and helicopters and planes attacked five Hezbollah outposts in the Reches Ramim area.

24 Apr 2005 - Several explosive devices exploded near the Lebanese-Israeli border, in the Mount Dov area. Officials believe the devices were planted by Hezbollah, but this was not confirmed. No injuries were reported in the explosions.

7 Apr 2005 - Two Israeli-Arabs from the village of Rajar near the Israel-Lebanon border were kidnapped by Hezbollah operatives and held in captivity for four days. The men, identified as Muki Ben-Jamal and Nuef Maharj Ben-Ali, said they were interrogated by their captors who wanted information on Israel. They were later released. Israeli officials did not believe that any security information had been compromised.

9 Jan 2005 - An explosive device was detonated against an IDF patrol at Nahal Sion. One Israeli soldier was killed, and a UN officer was killed.

20 Jul 2004 - Hezbollah sniper fired at an IDF post in the western sector of the Israeli-Lebanese border. Two IDF soldiers were killed.

7 May 2004 - Fire in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Dennis Leminov was killed, and two other soldiers were severely wounded. The IDF returned fire.

19 Jan 2004 - An anti-tank missile was fired at IDF D9 while neutralizing explosive charges near Zari't. An IDF soldier, Yan Rotzenski, was killed and another soldier was severely wounded.

6 Oct 2003 - Staff Sgt. David Solomonov was killed when Hezbollah fired at an IDF force south of the =46atma Gate in the eastern sector. In addition, the Hezbollah fired missiles and rockets at an IDF post in the Reches Ramim area.

10 Aug 2003 - Haviv Dadon, 16, of Shlomi, was struck in the chest and killed by shrapnel from an anti-aircraft shell fired by Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon. Four others were wounded.

20 Jul 2003 - Hezbollah snipers fired on an Israeli outpost near Chetula, killing two Israeli soldiers. The IDF retaliated with tank fire directed at a Hezbollah position, killing one operative manning the post. That night, there were multiple Israeli flights over Lebanon, two of which generated powerful sonic booms over Beirut.

7 May 2003 - Hezbollah attacked IDF positions in the Sheba' farms with heavy rocket, mortar, and small arms fire. One Israeli soldier was killed and five others were wounded in the attack. Lebanese authorities asserted that the Hezbollah firing had been preceded by an Israeli army foot patrol crossing the Blue Line.

5 May 2003 - A cycle of armed exchanges across the Blue Line began. Israel carried out more than 20 air sorties over the country. Subsequently, Hezbollah fired several anti-aircraft rounds with shrapnel landing inside Israel.

22 Mar 2003 - Hezbollah fired rockets and mortars at Israeli army positions in the Sheba' farms and adjacent areas. This attack followed eight incursions into Lebanese airspace by Israeli aircraft.

6 Jan 2003 - Hezbollah fired anti aircraft shells in the vicinity of Birait in the western sector of the Lebanese border. No one was hurt and no damage was caused.

29 Aug 2002 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Ofer Misali was killed, and two other soldiers were lightly wounded.

12 Mar 2002 - Infiltration: In a shooting attack on the Shlomi- Metzuba route. Six Israelis civilians were killed, among them IDF officer Lt. German Rojkov.

7 Aug 2001 - Two houses belonging to senior members of the former Israeli-allied South Lebanon Army militia were blown up using explosive devices. One of the houses belonged to Robin Abboud; the other to Samir Raslan. Hezbollah is suspected.

28 Apr 2001 - A 60 year-old Israeli man was found stabbed to death in Kfar Ba'aneh, near Carmiel in Galilee. The terrorists responsible for the attack were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of the organization.

14 Apr 2001 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Elad Litvak was killed.

1 Apr 2001 - A 42 year-old Israeli woman was stabbed to death in Haifa. Her murder was the initiation rite of a terrorist cell, whose members were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder, originally thought to be criminally motivated, were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of one of the terrorists into the organization.

16 Feb 2001- Fire at an IDF convoy on Mt. Dov. IDF soldier Elad Shneor was killed, and three other soldiers were wounded.

26 Nov 2000 - A charge was detonated near an IDF convoy. IDF soldier Khalil Taher was killed and two other soldiers were wounded.

7 Oct 2000 - Kidnapping: Three IDF soldiers: Adi Avitan, Omer Soued and Binyamin Avraham were kidnapped by the Hezbollah from the Mt. Dov sector.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sources: Ministry of Foreign Affairs; Ministry of Foreign Affairs Summary of Events; RAND Terrorism Database; The Institute for Counter-Terrorism; U.S. State Department Report on Human Rights Practices for 2004


http://www.aijac.org.au/resources/hezb_00-06.html

First, your list doesn't even say what you think it does, as I and others have pointed out below.

The rocket attacks by Hamas are in retalliation for Israel's illegal occupation, which Israel began in 1967. See any history for the numberous and barbaric attacks by Israel on Palestinians. Every human rights group that has looked at Israel's behavour has found Israel guilty of "deliberate killing," and "torture."

In addition, Israel never charged the doctor and his brother. That is kidnapping. Israel holds 10,000 Palestinians, most without charge, a practice condemned by human rights groups.

the VERY DAY they withdrew.

My list points out all the damn attacks on Israel since the 2000 pull out. Ignore the fcats if you want. You aren't the first and won't be the last.

Israel still controls the borders and air space of Gaza. They are still occuping it according to international law. Gaza is basically one big walled-in prison.

As far as facts go, I have repeatedly said that Israel is illegally occuping the West Bank, Gaza and E. Jerulaslem. They have violated over 70 UN SC resolutions. They have been found guilty of "deliberate killing" and "torture" by human rights groups. Israel violates the territory of the Palestinans in a way 1,000 times worse than Hizbollah. Nor do I see how I ignored your facts. I addressed them specifically in other posts.

If Israel is justified in invading Lebanon for the Hezbollah kidnappings, is Israel allowed to be attacked for its hundreds and hundreds of kidnappings? Or for holding 10,000 prisoners illegally? Or for its blatant land theft?

Hezbollah is a terrorist group, I agree. Yes, they violated Israel's sovereignity. But you defeat Hezbollah politcally. The all-out, illegal attack on Lebanon (condemned by the world, the UN, and Human Rights Watch) has just made Hezbollah stronger. Right now 87 percent of the Lebonese support Hezbollah.

that are non-binding?

Israel had pulled out of Gaza until they started their shit again.

Is Hezbollah and Hamas justified in blowing up buses with suicide bombers? Are they justified in blowing up restaurants? Are they justified in blowing up discos? How 'bout the suicide bomber in the market? Is that acceptable and justified? Are they justified in murdering 4 year olds by banging there head against a rock...(that's one of the prisoners YOU want released)? How about their initiations where they must kill a Jew to be a member of the terrorist group? Maybe calling for the death of every Jew in Israel is acceptable and justified? How 'bout never recogonizing Israel as a sovereign state?

UNLESS and UNTIL Hezbollah and Hamas stop calling for the death of every Jew in Israel and recognize Israel as a sovereign state....this will never change. Hezbollah and Hamas are the threat and Israel is defending themselves from that threat.

Hezbollah lobbed THOUSANDS of rockets into Israel prior to this and killed 8 soldiers. This isn't about JUST about the 2 kidnapped soldiers.

Last I heard, 83% of Israelis supported Israel. So, there you have it. A war.

No, they are security council resolutions.

No, Hamas is not justified in doing those things. I have said this repeatedly. (Or at least I have said it about Hezbollah.)

But you refuse to answer my question. Israel has killed 3 times as many Palestinians in the conflict as the other way around. They are accused of "deliberate killing" and "torture." Should Israel be attacked like Lebanon.

You have a double standard, it seems like. When Hezbollah kills civillians, it justifies an attack on the *whole* country of Lebanon (not just the guilty). But when Israel does the same, you remain silent.

That's not even to mention that Israel is building illegal settlments even as we speak. They are pushing the Palestinians off thier land in the same way the American Government pushed the Native Americans off their land. Do you support this? And critizing Hamas for the conflict is like criticizing the Native Americans for their violence against White Settlers. In both cases the natives did attack innocent civilians, but in both cases the violence was done because a powerful country was pushing the natives off their land and making their life hell.

discussions go in the I/P forum. If you want to discuss Hamas, go to I/P. Otherwise they will delete this thread.

Hezbollah aims their rockets at CIVILIAN targets ONLY. Israel is TRYING to take out Hezbollah stronholds. BIG DIFFERENCE.

No, the Palestinian conflict is central to this discussion. You were also comfortable discussing it until you couldn't answer my posts. You just want to ignore it becaue it shows Israel is doing far worse things than Hezbollah did. Once again, since Israel is guilty of stealing peoples' land and of "deliberate killing" and "torture," shold the whole country of Israel be attacked?

And as my post 58 shows below, the IDF is not just targetting Hezbollah. The UN and Human Rights Groups have already stated it is committing war crimes in its response.

Hezbollah seems to be targetting the military, but their rockets are so inaccurate they are hitting civilians. Human Rights Watch has rightly condemned Hezbollah of committing war crimes for using rockets that could harm civilians.

Go ahead and start a Palestinian thread here...I dare ya.

Hezbollah seems to be targeting MILITARY?????!!!@#$# OMG...:rofl::rofl: That's too funny. EVERY HEZBOLLAH ROCKET has been fired at CIVILIANS.

Now you are just trash talking instead of trying to present an argument

Why don't you answer my questions? If Israel is guilty of far worse crimes than Hezbollah, should all of Israel be attacked?

As far as what what Hezbollah rockets hit, the reason they hit civilians is because they are inaccurate. As I stated, Hezbollah is guilty ofwar crimes for using them. By the way, using your logic, since most of Israeli victims have been non-Hezbollah, and since Israel has guided missiles, that would indicate that Israel is targeting civilians in the conflict.

ISN'T guilty of far worse crimes. It all depends on which side you listen too, doesn't it? YES, it does.

Israel is not targeting civilians. It's targeting Hezbollah. Hezbollah, on the other hand, targets ONLY civilians.

According to all human rights groups that have looked at Israel's behavious--including Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, B'Tsleem (based in Israel), a Palestinian human rights group, and the UN Human rights group, Israel does target civilians. It doesn't depend on what side I listen to. I read the human rights reports.

For example, one human rights report issued by the UN found Israel guilty of "deliberate killing" and "torture." Something like 140 nations endorsed that report. Only Israel and the US opposed it.

I really doubt the whole world and every single human rights group can be wrong.

How about they all hate Israel? Does that sink in?

That means that every country in the world and every human rights group hates Israel. Is that seriously your position?

I know. It is tough when the facts are biased against Israel.

...then how is that from the time of the Israeli withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000 to May this year, more IDF troops were killed by Hezbollah than Israeli civilians? I believe the numbers were 15 IDF, 5 civilians. (If I could find the link for those figures from the Jewish Federation site I'd share it, but I can't even find my post with the link from last week.)

Then again, maybe the reason more IDF troops were killed than Israeli civilians over six years is because Hezbollah was targeting the IDF border troops over the disputed Israel-occupied Chebaa farms, NOT civilians. :think:

state that those attacks were against Israeli MILITARY targets. You aren't even making sense anymore and have the spinning abilities and cognitive dissonance of Fox News.

People ignore facts. People ignore what Hezbollah has done. It's a reminder.

You can sum up the points and provide a link.

I posted an article below stating how Israel felt it was free to attack *anyone* in S. Lebanon. I didn't need to post it 5 times to prove my point. And I see you haven't responded to it.

LOL...NO...calling someone a ZIONIST BITCH is RUDE. That's my favorite post so far today and we're just getting started!

I haven't seen your post and if it's what I think it is, it doesn't deserve a response.

I never called you those names.

And, yes my post does deserve a response. You keep critizing me of not looking at the facts. I posted a factual articl in which a confidant of Olmert said that it was okay to bomb *any* civilians in S. Lebanon. It is post number 58.

I'm not evading you. I respond to posts that I want to respond to, not posts YOU want me to respond to. Understand?

I heard that report on TV. He said they warned the citizens to leave, they didn't leave. Do I think it's fine to kill willy nilly? NO. Am I sorry those people died? YES. Did Israel know if they all left? Did Hezbollah verify that for them? Do I think Israel TRIES to avoid killing citizens, YES. Does HEZBOLLAH TRY to avoid civilians with their rockets? NO...they aim at civilians!

I don't need to read your post. I saw the report on the news.

Your inability to answer my posts shows that your whole logic is faulty. You essentially have no argument. Once again, if Israel is doing far worse than Hezbollah, does Israel deserved to be attacked? My answer is NO! I believe in international law and human rights. You don't. If you did, you would agree with the UN and Human Rights Watch that Israel is committing war crimes.

Yes, you do need to respond to post 58 because it destroys your argument that Irael tries to avoid killing civilians. If it decides to flatten S. Lebanon, knowing there are civilians there, then it is guilty of a war crime and it is guilty of killing innocent civillians. Will you condemn them?

I have condemned Hezbollah. Now will you condemn Israel's actions?

from Hezbollah. Israel should NOT kill people deliberately. However, since Hezbollah likes to hide among the civilian populations, sometimes it cannot be helped. How do YOU suggest Israel get rid of Hezbollah? I mean GET RID of them...not appease them. Appeasement hasn't worked and never will. How should Israel get rid of Hezbollah. Let's hear your bright ideas.

Good thing you weren't watching WWII on a 24 hour news cycle. Hell, 40,000 people were killed in one day! We'd be living in Hitler's America or Japan's America fercryingoutloud!

IF Israel was trying to wipe out the Lebanese people, there would be tens of thousands of deaths by now, don't you think? What do they gain by killing the Lebanese people just to kill them? NOTHING but outrage. Insinuating they are doing that is just ridiculous and I don't care what Human Rights groups say. NO ONE likes Israel. It's nothing new. They just want them to line up to the box cars again and be done with them. NEVER AGAIN. Israel isn't going anywhere. Sorry.

Bombing the hell out of Lebanon is not protecting Irael since it has made Hezbollah stronger. At any rate, you cannot indiscrimiately bomb a country in order to protect your own. That is a war crime. The UN has condemned it and Human Rights Watch has condemned it. I believe in human rights; you believe in excuses. You also quote the words of all the neocons about appeasement, the line being that if we don't agree with outrageous wars against people who are innocent, we are for appeasement. That is an either/or logical fallacy.

I don't know what Germany has to do with this except that you are pulling one of the oldest rhetorical tricks in the book, trying to say that past wars were way worse so we shouldn't look at current atrocities. If you believe this, then lets stop getting mad at the suicide bombers.

I never said Israel was trying to wipe out the Lebanese people. Please read my posts carefully. I said they were bombing idiscrminately.

As far as you evoking the Holocaust, that is typical for Iraeli apologoists. I am sorry the Jews had to suffer, but that does not give Israel the right to make other people suffer in return. It just lowers them to the people they were prosecuted by. The Lebonese and the Palestinians had nothign to do with the Holocaust.

I agree that Isarel is not going anywhere because it has the 4th most powerful military in the world. That is why the threats of Hezbollah and Iran are empty.

I think your point about you not caring about Human Rights Watch says everything about all your posts.

I think what others should know about all your posts and all your posturing is that you don't care about human rights. You don't care about the suffering of civilians unless they are Israeli.

I have repeatedly condemned Hezbollah, but you refuse to condemn Israel's agression.

the 1890s.

Tensions started increasing as more of them immigrated to the region...eventually culminating into what was the Israeli war for independence.

and for the consequences of those actions.

Powells presentation at the UN for going into Iraq or the cover of the Jessica Lynch story, or Pat Tillman, or the hundreds of other reports that have been shown to be dead wrong and propagandized.

I thought we were a bit smarter than that here. guess not. only the bush regime can be evil - only one spot left in that position and it's taken! yep.

Not only is it one-sided, but if you have a different stance on this issue, you get shouted down, insulted, people twist what you say, they try and put words in your mouth, then try and categorize you as some sort of Zionist who approves of baby killing. In short, tactics that REPUBLICANS are mostly known for. There is absolutely no readoned discourse here.

It must be awfully easy for many people on this sight to be living in such a black and white world; no shades of gray.

I won't be responding to anyone's response to this thread.

alerted on twice and last time I checked it was still posted. Disgusting.

wackyness. It has been since after the 2004 election. Yet I can't look away because, after years of living in Colorado and arguing with the far right, its fun to argue with the far left for a change.

I don't know what that makes me. A massochist maybe?

Can't we agree that Israel would never kill innocent civilians intentionally? Can't we agree that we must support Israel because they are our strongest ally in that part of the world? Can't we agree that Israel's existence is threatened? Can't we agree that they are only acting in self-defense? Can't we agree that Israel is doing the right thing? Can't we agree to never say a discouraging word about Israel? Why can't we agree on such simple matters?

It's on a whole range of issues. This Israel/Lebanon thing is just the nadir of it all, IMHO.

IDF is trying to get rid of a group that has called for the annihilation of Israel and sworn to kill every Jew and won't stop until it does. Thread after thread after thread has called them child killers, they are massacring the Lebanese! Israel is committing atrocities against the Lebanese people! Israel has the "final solution" video posted here, Pat Buchanan (one of the biggest BIGOTS walking the earth) op-ed posted here TWICE and DUers fawned over it! People have said "HELL YES! I support Hezbollah", people have said "Hezbollah is NOT unreasonable in what they are doing" and now we are expected to make kissy face and just all get along? I'm sorry. THIS will NEVER heal. It's gone on too long and too much has been said by too many people..... People who I THOUGHT I liked and respected and have known for YEARS. It's been so bad, some LONGTIME Jewish DUers have already left this place. People who have been here as long as me and I've been here from almost day one, have left because of this crap. I hang around because Israel defenders are far and few between and I feel THAT SIDE should also be heard among the Israel haters. I get ganged up on, called nasty names, put on "ignore" (a badge of honor, IMO), stalked by anti-Israel posters and harassed, but I'm here to defend Israel and that's what I intend to do.

Also, your post above is NOT representative of DU at this time. There are very few here who want to give Israel ANY benefit of the doubt, but I appreciate the intent.

We're not getting anywhere here.

They want you to slither away with your tail between your legs.

They want to silence us. Don't let them.

but, it seems there only two options.

1. Sit quietly allowing people to post propaganda justifying mass murder of innocents including children

2. expose the proganda and justifications

I wish there were someway to separate the murderers on both sides and exterminate them so that the folks over there could finally find some peace.

It's all so senseless and needless

I support Israel's right to exist more than anyone else. However, this is like hitting a fly with a sludge hammer.

Palestine kidnapped israeli soldiers: very bad.
Israel responds by invading Lebenon: wtf?

But it does not justify the destruction of an entire country. Especially when that country was one of the most moderate in the Arab world. Christians, Jews and Muslims living together peacefully. It was happening there in Lebenon. Hell, Tucker Carlson was the first to point out that there was a gay bar a black from where he was staying!

A GAY BAR! And this is Tucker Carlson mind you. I shit you not, the words out of his mouth said "liberalism is what made this country the beacon of the islamic world.". And now many on the DU find its destruction neccessary. I challenge you to find a gay bar in an muslim country.

You know what, I dont care who started it. Pointing fingers is very childish. Israel has the power to stop this, or it has the power to escalate this. Lebenon's gov't is in shambles now, it couldnt stop Hezbella if it wanted to. Somebody do something before its too late. Peace is what we should want. Peace is neither pro-israel nor pro-arab. It is universal.

you are not the only one that keeps mixing things up and htat is where many of the problems at DU stem from...people talking about things they know nothing or little about!

"Palestine kidnapped israeli soldiers: very bad.
Israel responds by invading Lebenon: wtf?"

That is NOT what happened!

There is nothing in waht they showed that gives promomity to the building hit. You are taking on IDF say so.

Let me know when they release the video of the strike showing me where the launcher was in comparison to waht they hit.

Get back to me with that.

Since you were already demanding apologies based on a video they had not even released, seems like you made up your mind well inadvance to accept the IDF's version of events without question.

Did you like that Powell UN presentation? They had trucks you know. They had video of thsoe trucks. Jesus some are totally lacking critical thinking on this issue.

that Hezbolla does fire from within residential areas.

To bolster their case, as the saying goes.

The OP has no perspective left it appears. Was already pubbing the video on other threads in advance. Nice critical thinking about the evidence. Sheesh. Some of the justifications I have seen here today boggle the mind.

firing from. It wasn't just to 'bolster' their case. It was to show Hezbollah was firing from a nearby CIVILIAN building and they hit the wrong one, sadly.

same area or building in Qana. Get it.

That's all.


on edit:

And not the same time frame. Where is the real video. This is really bad propaganda.

Don't fall for it.

some here are using false info for their excuses for this..

and they are excuses..

total blatant excuses..

the video shown was for propaganda purposes only!

nothing more and nothing less!

it was all bullshit!

fly

IDF say so? You mystery "source".

This is pure bullshit. There is nothing in the video that shows proximity to anything. You just keep asserting it.

Stop wasting my time.

:rofl:

MSNBC said it was a Qana video of 4 rockets being fired from the GENERAL area of the bombed building. Take it or leave it...I really don't give a shit.

Yes, Faux 'News' has been hyping this for at least a couple of hours now. Plus an interview with Newt "Chickenhawk" Gingrich urging World War Twenty or something.

Those rockets could have been fired from anywhere in an urbanized area of south Lebanon. And ... indeed, we are not told when they were fired, could have been two weeks ago. Beware of propaganda ... this is bad for Israel, so I can image an exculpatory video (if one did not exist) was ordered up pretty fast.

Still, it cannot justify or rationalize the killing of 56 civilians, 34 children.

I am with Juan Cole on this, I don't think the targeting of Qana was an 'accident' ... I think this is about the ethnic cleansing of south Lebanon. Actions like this are a way to terrorize the local Lebanese Shia population into leaving (or being exterminated).

"I think this is about the ethnic cleansing of south Lebanon. Actions like this are a way to terrorize the local Lebanese Shia population into leaving (or being exterminated)."

I don't understand how anyone can honestly believe that Israel is an aggressor and is out to ethnically cleanse south Lebanon. Such statements don't show ignorance - they show ideological fervor. Israel would like nothing more than for Lebanon to place its army in southern Lebanon to prevent warlike actions from any Lebanese against Israel. There is zero evidence that Israel wants to occupy Lebanon. If they wanted to do that they would not have left the last time they had to go in there to defend Israel's northern borders.

I think every person who posts on this topic should state up front whether they believe Israel should be pushed into the sea and destroyed as a state - as every Arab neighbor who is attacking Israel states openly.

If you believe that then don't pretend to argue over the ethics of how Israel attacks missile launchers hidden in between buildings in residential areas. It's obvious that the only Israel response you would approve of is a complete surrender of all Israeli territory and an apology to Hizbollah for making them waste their expensive missiles.

IDF May Not Have Caused Kana Deaths
20:50 Jul 30, '06 / 5 Av 5766

(IsraelNN.com) Senior IDF officers told reporters a short time ago that there is a contradiction in the timing of the bombing of the village of Kana and reports of the explosion that killed more than 50 civilians and set off world-wide condemnation of Israel. Air Force Commander Amir Eshel left open the possibility that Hizbullah terrorists blew up the building or that an unknown cause set off explosives which were stored in the structure.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=108758

that they are floating the latest IDF BULLSHIT.

Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arutz_Sheva

Say it ain't so!!!

SARCASM

IDF May Not Have Caused Kana Deaths
20:50 Jul 30, '06 / 5 Av 5766

(IsraelNN.com) Senior IDF officers told reporters a short time ago that there is a contradiction in the timing of the bombing of the village of Kana and reports of the explosion that killed more than 50 civilians and set off world-wide condemnation of Israel. Air Force Commander Amir Eshel left open the possibility that Hizbullah terrorists blew up the building or that an unknown cause set off explosives which were stored in the structure.

He explained that recorded information shows that Israeli Air Force planes bombed the building between midnight and 1 a.m. and that the next attack at 7:30 a.m. was up to 500 yards away. He said reports of the killing of civilians came around 8 a.m. "It is not clear what happened" between 1 a.m. and 8 a.m., he said.

Brigadier General Ido Nehushtan pointed out that Hizbullah terrorists have fired more than 150 rockets from the village of Kana since the beginning of the war.

********************

Note that the IDF did not deny anything as some posters are claiming. They said there is a question about the timing - and that Israel may not be responsible for the building explosion that killed the civilians.

I believe this has raised such fury in this thread because it doesn't fit with some posters' ideological desire to see Israel damaged as much as possible and take complete blame for defending herself against missile attacks.

Hiding Among Civilians While Conducting Offensive Operations (Hezbollah): Possible War Crime
Hitting Targets Indiscriminately, Despite Their Location in Civilian Area (Israel): Possible War Crime

Using A Fragile, Emerging Country And Its Civilian Population to Prosecute a Proxy War (U.S., Syria, Iran & U.K.): Despicable War Crime

Folks - We're supposed to be the grown-ups here!

in_cog_ni_to (1000+ posts) Sun Jul-30-06 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Stay tuned for the video showing HEZBOLLAH nearby.
Then we'll see apologies all over the place, I'm sure.
"Let us never forget that government is ourselves and not an alien power over


Your massive bias is showing like nobody's business. Could not even wait for the incoinclusive BS video before assuming you would be vindicated in your defense of war crimes. Get real.

YES, I posted that. So what? The IDF said they were going to release a tape showing HEZBOLLAH firing rockets in Qana. That's what they did.

I never suggested any such thing. Clearly your bias is pro-Israel not pro-Hezbollah.

I've always supported Israel and won't apologize for it either.

The video is actually rather inconclusive... It is not even clear whether these are in fact rockets being fired at Israel, rather than say anti-aircraft artillery being fired at Israeli jets. What is also not clear is where the rocket launcher is in relation to the buildings.

For all we can tell, the rockets, if that is what they are) could actually be coming from a kilometer away from the town in open land. Why did the Israeli aircraft not actually try to fly over to the launcher? Wouldnt they want to actually pinpoint its location so that it could be destroyed?

In any case, why bomb the building? The rockets, if thats what they are, are OBVIOIUSLY not coming from the building itself...

Israel had already warned it would do just this a few days ago:


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5219360.stm

mean that every bomb you drop is intentional. Israel is guilty of some of the worse war crimes in histroy.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Israel said they could not destroy the rocket batteries because they were "mobile" and they could not locate them? But, this time, they have a video? Do you wanna buy a bridge?

I don't expect anyone here, but a few, to defend Israel who is only trying to rid the world of this retched Hezbollah terrorist group.

The children on the bottom floor were crushed to death. How do you know what it looked like previously? But, I don't expect you to look at it rationally. I don't have a dog in this fight. I have no connections to Israel or Lebanon. I support humanity and peace. I don't take sides for one reason or another. I try to look at the facts. The Hezbollah rockets could not hit a horse in the ass from 10 yards away. They may get a lucky hit if they keep shooting them. How many did they shoot and how many Israelis did they kill with them in the last five years? It is a fraud. It is a lie. It is propaganda.

Israel has indiscrimately bombed Lebanon. It bombed a *Christian TV station hostile to Hezbollah.* The logic of this bombing, according to Luft, an retired Israeli Colonel, is to strip away the Lebonese elite from Hezbollah. In other words, Israel is using collective punishment, a war crime.

Right now 87 percent of the Lebonese support Hezbollah, so Israel's actions have had the opposite affect of getting rid of Hezbollah.

Maybe they wouldn't have been fired if Israel wasn't murdering hundreds of people in Lebanon.

Besides the IDF has about as much credibility as the shithead in the oval office.,

:eyes:



Hezbollah Terrorist Attacks Since May 2000*

*Israel's unilateral withdrawal from southern Lebanon

Compiled by Mitchell Bard

(July 24, 2006)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

24 Jul 2006 - Hezbollah fired more than 70 Katyusha rockets into Israel, several of which landed in Nahariya, Safed, and Kiryat Shmona. Medics treated at least 49 people who were lightly to moderately wounded. More than 2200 rockets have been fired at Israeli cities since July 12, killing 17 Israelis, all of them civilians. 20 Israeli soldiers were killed in other incidents.

23 Jul 2006 - Shimon Glickblich, 60, of Haifa was killed Sunday morning (11:00) while driving his car in Haifa. Habib Isa Awad, 48, of Iblin, was killed while working in the carpentry shop in Kiryat Ata. Another 12 were wounded in the morning barrage in Haifa, and more later in the day as over 90 rockets were fired at Haifa, Akko, Kiryat Shmona, and elsewhere in northern Israel.

20 Jul 2006 - Five IDF soldiers were killed and five wounded in continuing exchanges of fire in the Lebanese village of Maroun al-Ras, near Avivim, where two soldiers were killed on Wednesday. The body of the fifth soldier, St.-Sgt. Yonatan (Sergei) Vlasyuk, 21, of Kibbutz Lahav was retrieved on July 22. At 16, Yonatan immigrated alone to Israel through the Jewish Agency's "Na'aleh" program. He was adopted by Dalia Gal, a member of Kibbutz Lahav in the Negev. An IDF officer was killed and three soldiers were wounded as two Apache (Cobra) combat helicopters on their way to Lebanon to assist IDF forces operating against Hezbollah terrorists near Avivim collided and then crashed south of Kiryat Shmona.

19 Jul 2006 - St.-Sgt. Yonatan Hadasi, 21, of Kibbutz Merhavia and St.-Sgt. Yotam Gilboa, 21, of Kibbutz Maoz Haim were killed and nine soldiers were wounded in exchanges of fire between IDF and Hezbollah in south Lebanon, near Moshav Avivim. The Israeli force had crossed the border to destroy the Hezbollah rocket-launching position at the former IDF outpost of Shaked. Rabia Abed Taluzi (3) and his brother Mahmoud (7) who were playing soccer outside their house were killed and dozens were wounded in two Katyusha rocket attacks on the Israeli Arab city of Nazareth.

18 Jul 2006 - Andrei Zelinksy, 36, was killed Tuesday evening in Nahariya outside a bomb shelter. Though he managed to save his family by rushing them into the shelter, he returned home to get a blanket for his daughter and was killed. Some 130 rockets were fired at the north on Tuesday, 100 of them within one hour and a half - also landing in the Haifa area, Karmiel, Tiberias, Safed, Maalot and Rosh Pina. About 60 people injured were evacuated to hospitals in Safed and Nahariya.

17 Jul 2006 - Over 50 rockets were fired towards the eastern and upper Galilee on Monday night. A Katyusha rocket hit the external wall of the Rebecca Sieff Hospital in Safed, causing damage to infrastructure; five patients, two doctors and two other hospital employees were injured. Earlier, 11 people were wounded in Haifa when a 3-story apartment building was hit by missile. The Israel Air Force destroyed at least ten long-range Iranian-made missiles capable of hitting Tel Aviv, by targeting a Hezbollah truck carrying the missiles before they could be launched. To date, missiles have been fired up to 40 kilometers into Israel.

16 Jul 2006 - Eight killed, 50 wounded in Hezbollah rocket attack on Haifa - Rockets began falling on the Haifa area shortly after 9:00 a.m. Eight employees of Israel Railways at the Haifa train depot were killed in a direct hit by a Fajar missile made in Syria. A total of over 50 people were wounded in Haifa and the Haifa Bay area.

15 Jul 2006 - Katyusha rockets landed for the first time in Tiberias, located 35 kilometers from the Lebanese border on the Sea of Galilee, as well as in nearby communities.

14 Jul 2006 - Shortly after 8:30 p.m. =46riday night an Israeli navy ship was severely damaged by an Iran-manufactured missile fired by Hezbollah. Four IDF soldiers were killed: Staff Sgt. Tal Amgar, 21, of Ashdod; Yaniv Hershkovitz, 21, of Haifa; Shai Atias, 19, ofRishon Lezion; and Dov Steinshuss, 37, of Karmiel. Omer Pesachov, 7, of Nahariya, and his grandmother Yehudit Itzkovitch, 58, of Moshav Meron were killed by a Katyusha rocket in Meron early Friday evening. Roni, Omer's older sister, was badly wounded, and the grandfather, Naftali, was lightly hurt. The family had fled the Katyushas in Nahariya to spend a quiet weekend with their grandparents.

13 Jul 2006 - Monica Seidman (Lehrer), 40, of Nahariya was killed in her home by a Katyusha rocket Thursday morning. In the evening, Nitzan Roseban, 33, was killed in Safed by a direct rocket hit. On Thursday evening Katyushas landed in Haifa.

12 Jul 2006 - Hezbollah terrorists infiltrated into Israeli territory and attacked two IDF armored jeeps patrolling the border with Lebanon, killing three soldiers and kidnapping two. Ground forces entered Lebanon in the area of the attack. A large explosive device was detonated underneath an Israeli tank, killing all four of the tank crew. An eighth soldier was killed when IDF troops entered Lebanon to try to retrieve the bodies of the tank crew. Throughout the day, Hezbollah terror organization fired Katyusha rockets and mortar shells at Israel's northern borders' communities and IDF posts.

27 May 2006 - An IDF soldier was wounded when Katyushas were fired at an army base at Mt. Meron in the upper Galilee.

27 Dec 2005 - A branch of a Palestinian organization connected to Al-Qaida fired 6 Katyushas, damaging a house in Kiryat Shmona and a house in Metulla. In response, the IAF attacked a training base of the Popular Front, south of Beirut.

21 Nov 2005 - An attempt to kidnap an IDF soldier was foiled when paratroopers patrolling near Rajar village discerned a Hezbollah unit approaching. Private David Markovitz opened fire, killing all four. In a heavy attack of mortars and Katyusha rockets that ensued, nine soldiers and and two civilians were injured.

29 Jun 2005 - More than 20 mortars were fired from across the border. Cpl. Uzi Peretz of the Golani Brigade was killed and four soldiers wounded, including the unit's doctor. Fire was exchanged and helicopters and planes attacked five Hezbollah outposts in the Reches Ramim area.

24 Apr 2005 - Several explosive devices exploded near the Lebanese-Israeli border, in the Mount Dov area. Officials believe the devices were planted by Hezbollah, but this was not confirmed. No injuries were reported in the explosions.

7 Apr 2005 - Two Israeli-Arabs from the village of Rajar near the Israel-Lebanon border were kidnapped by Hezbollah operatives and held in captivity for four days. The men, identified as Muki Ben-Jamal and Nuef Maharj Ben-Ali, said they were interrogated by their captors who wanted information on Israel. They were later released. Israeli officials did not believe that any security information had been compromised.

9 Jan 2005 - An explosive device was detonated against an IDF patrol at Nahal Sion. One Israeli soldier was killed, and a UN officer was killed.

20 Jul 2004 - Hezbollah sniper fired at an IDF post in the western sector of the Israeli-Lebanese border. Two IDF soldiers were killed.

7 May 2004 - Fire in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Dennis Leminov was killed, and two other soldiers were severely wounded. The IDF returned fire.

19 Jan 2004 - An anti-tank missile was fired at IDF D9 while neutralizing explosive charges near Zari't. An IDF soldier, Yan Rotzenski, was killed and another soldier was severely wounded.

6 Oct 2003 - Staff Sgt. David Solomonov was killed when Hezbollah fired at an IDF force south of the =46atma Gate in the eastern sector. In addition, the Hezbollah fired missiles and rockets at an IDF post in the Reches Ramim area.

10 Aug 2003 - Haviv Dadon, 16, of Shlomi, was struck in the chest and killed by shrapnel from an anti-aircraft shell fired by Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon. Four others were wounded.

20 Jul 2003 - Hezbollah snipers fired on an Israeli outpost near Chetula, killing two Israeli soldiers. The IDF retaliated with tank fire directed at a Hezbollah position, killing one operative manning the post. That night, there were multiple Israeli flights over Lebanon, two of which generated powerful sonic booms over Beirut.

7 May 2003 - Hezbollah attacked IDF positions in the Sheba' farms with heavy rocket, mortar, and small arms fire. One Israeli soldier was killed and five others were wounded in the attack. Lebanese authorities asserted that the Hezbollah firing had been preceded by an Israeli army foot patrol crossing the Blue Line.

5 May 2003 - A cycle of armed exchanges across the Blue Line began. Israel carried out more than 20 air sorties over the country. Subsequently, Hezbollah fired several anti-aircraft rounds with shrapnel landing inside Israel.

22 Mar 2003 - Hezbollah fired rockets and mortars at Israeli army positions in the Sheba' farms and adjacent areas. This attack followed eight incursions into Lebanese airspace by Israeli aircraft.

6 Jan 2003 - Hezbollah fired anti aircraft shells in the vicinity of Birait in the western sector of the Lebanese border. No one was hurt and no damage was caused.

29 Aug 2002 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Ofer Misali was killed, and two other soldiers were lightly wounded.

12 Mar 2002 - Infiltration: In a shooting attack on the Shlomi- Metzuba route. Six Israelis civilians were killed, among them IDF officer Lt. German Rojkov.

7 Aug 2001 - Two houses belonging to senior members of the former Israeli-allied South Lebanon Army militia were blown up using explosive devices. One of the houses belonged to Robin Abboud; the other to Samir Raslan. Hezbollah is suspected.

28 Apr 2001 - A 60 year-old Israeli man was found stabbed to death in Kfar Ba'aneh, near Carmiel in Galilee. The terrorists responsible for the attack were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of the organization.

14 Apr 2001 - Fire at an IDF post in the Mt. Dov sector. IDF soldier Elad Litvak was killed.

1 Apr 2001 - A 42 year-old Israeli woman was stabbed to death in Haifa. Her murder was the initiation rite of a terrorist cell, whose members were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder, originally thought to be criminally motivated, were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of one of the terrorists into the organization.

16 Feb 2001- Fire at an IDF convoy on Mt. Dov. IDF soldier Elad Shneor was killed, and three other soldiers were wounded.

26 Nov 2000 - A charge was detonated near an IDF convoy. IDF soldier Khalil Taher was killed and two other soldiers were wounded.

7 Oct 2000 - Kidnapping: Three IDF soldiers: Adi Avitan, Omer Soued and Binyamin Avraham were kidnapped by the Hezbollah from the Mt. Dov sector.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sources: Ministry of Foreign Affairs; Ministry of Foreign Affairs Summary of Events; RAND Terrorism Database; The Institute for Counter-Terrorism; U.S. State Department Report on Human Rights Practices for 2004


http://www.aijac.org.au/resources/hezb_00-06.html

Unless someone reads the text carefully, he won't realize that *11* of these attacks occurred since the fighting began in July. That is simply dishonest to count these attacks as separate incidents. There is a war right now. If we wanted, we could count violations by Israel since July and come up with hundreds.

Further, by the text itself, it appears the IDF has been doing incursions itself:

>>A cycle of armed exchanges across the Blue Line began. Israel carried out more than 20 air sorties over the country. Subsequently, Hezbollah fired several anti-aircraft rounds with shrapnel landing inside Israel.

It sounds like Israel committed the violations here.

>>Hezbollah attacked IDF positions in the Sheba' farms with heavy rocket, mortar, and small arms fire. One Israeli soldier was killed and five others were wounded in the attack. Lebanese authorities asserted that the Hezbollah firing had been preceded by an Israeli army foot patrol crossing the Blue Line.

According to the Lebonese, Israels instigated the attacks.

>>Hezbollah fired rockets and mortars at Israeli army positions in the Sheba' farms and adjacent areas. This attack followed eight incursions into Lebanese airspace by Israeli aircraft.

It sounds like what happened first was the Israeli invasion of Lebonese air space (which happens all the time.)

Then, some of the claims are unconfirmed attacks:

>>7 Aug 2001 - Two houses belonging to senior members of the former Israeli-allied South Lebanon Army militia were blown up using explosive devices. One of the houses belonged to Robin Abboud; the other to Samir Raslan. Hezbollah is suspected.

>>24 Apr 2005 - Several explosive devices exploded near the Lebanese-Israeli border, in the Mount Dov area. Officials believe the devices were planted by Hezbollah, but this was not confirmed. No injuries were reported in the explosions.

On another note, Israel regularly kidnapps Palestinians in the occupied terrotories. It holds 10,000 prisoners, most without charges, a practice condemned by human rights groups.

Prior to the current hostilities, almost all of those killed are military.

Here are the exceptions:

1. 10 Aug 2003 - Haviv Dadon, 16, of Shlomi, was struck in the chest and killed by shrapnel from an anti-aircraft shell fired by Hezbollah terrorists in Lebanon. Four others were wounded. According to the Jerusalem Post, he was "the first Israeli civilian to be killed as a direct result of Hizbullah shelling since the IDF's withdrawal from South Lebanon in May 2000,..." Since no additional civilians enter your list prior to current hostilities, he is also presumably the ONLY civilian to be killed by Hezbollah shelling prior to July 2006. Is this not accurate?

2. 12 Mar 2002 - Infiltration: In a shooting attack on the Shlomi- Metzuba route. Six Israelis civilians were killed, among them IDF officer Lt. German Rojkov. Here is a full description of this event, from the Institute for Counter-Terrorism. As you can see, there is certainly a good deal of question whether Hezbollah was actually involved in any formal way.

3. (We'll combine the last two killings, since they are related:

28 Apr 2001 - A 60 year-old Israeli man was found stabbed to death in Kfar Ba'aneh, near Carmiel in Galilee. The terrorists responsible for the attack were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of the organization.

1 Apr 2001 - A 42 year-old Israeli woman was stabbed to death in Haifa. Her murder was the initiation rite of a terrorist cell, whose members were apprehended in July. Six members of a Hezbollah-linked Palestinian terrorist cell responsible for the murder, originally thought to be criminally motivated, were arrested in July. The murder was the initiation rite of one of the terrorists into the organization.

OK. So, two Israeli civilians stabbed to death in Haifa. By "Hezbollah-linked" terrorists, according to your list's author. But the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs calls the connection with Hezbollah only apparent, and none of the six cell members arrested are listed by the ministry as having any organizational affiliation with Hezbollah (none are from Lebanon, either):

During the course of the investigation, six residents of the territories illegally living in Israel were arrested. The six are:

# Abd el Rahman Hassan Mahmoud Washah - Former Black Panther member, resident of Araba/Misgav (illegally) - Originally from Boureij/Gaza.

# Mowafak Hassan Mahmoud Washah - Former Black Panther member, resident of Araba/Misgav (illegally) - Originally from Boureij/Gaza.

# Muhammed Salah Rashid Oudeh - No organizational affiliation - Resident of Maarna Jenin.

# Omar Mahmoud Ahmed Hamel - No organizational affiliation - Resident of Bardala/Dotan.

# Ahmed Housein Jomaah abu Zied - No organizational affiliation - Resident of Jericho.

# Samer Mousa Ramadan Ramadan - No organizational affiliation - Resident of Jericho.

It should be noted that there are at lease four more members of the cell in hiding in Palestinian Authority territory.

The six were recruited to the "Omar el Mukhtar" cell. The objective of the cell was to commit murders and attacks within the Green Line. The creation of the cell can be attributed to the environment of the last months - as part of the Palestinian efforts to attack Israeli and Jewish targets.

The cell was directed by a Jordanian to perpetrate attacks. The Jordanian was apparently connected with Hizbullah.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Government/Communiques/2001/I...

-------------------------------------------

So, in terms of Israeli civilians killed by Hezbollah prior to the beginning of the current hostilities, we have one killed by shelling (weirdly, an "anti-aircraft shell"), five killed by a couple of lunatics firing at anything on the road (and no confirmation that these two were Hezbollah), and two stabbed by a terror cell in Haifa, all the members of which are Palestinians from within Israel and the occupied territories, and none of whom - according to the Israeli government - have any organizational affiliation with Hezbollah. That's eight civilians. That's YOUR list. Now, don't go accuse me of minimizing their deaths. And don't accuse me of supporting Hezbollah. I do neither. If anything, I'm surprised by this list, primarily because I thought many more murders of Israeli civilians could be attributed to Hezbollah. From your list, it looks like Israel and Hezbollah were fighting a primarily MILITARY low-intensity border war, of the kind that are seen throughout the world. As far as I can tell, from YOUR list, Hezbollah's targets have been primarily military prior to the current hostilities, or at least their successful hits. Do you have some information that would dispute this assessment?

Yes, it should be said that the attacks were low intensity border conflict involving the military.

the list shows how many attacks Hezbollah has waged on Israel since Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000. That means NOTHING? Hezbollah must be allowed to attack Israel any time it wishes? I love the logic. Of course. Israel is the ONLY country on earth who MUST endure attacks from terrorist groups.:eyes:

The list was a gross misrepresentation.

As far as enduring attcks from terrorist groups, let me point out once again that Israel has killed 3 times as many Palestinians as the other way around. It has been accused by every human rights group that has looked at it of "deliberate killing" and "torture." So Israel itsel is much more guilty than Hezbollah.

As we speak Israel is building more illegal settlements in the West Bank, a violation of international law. Olmert has stated he wants to annext the Jordan Valley "for security purposes." Israel has done far, far worse to the Palestinians than Hezbollah ever did to Israel.

Do you think the whole country of Israel should be attacked like Lebanon?

Further, your own list shows that Israel has violated Lebanon on several occasions. Why should Lebanon endure this?

I should also point out that Hezbollah was formed because of Israel's illegal invasion of Lebanon in 1982. Israel said it was invading because some Palestinian extremist killed a diplomat in London. The extremists in London had nothing to do with the PLO in Lebanon.

OK? I'm not going to let you get this thread deleted as much as you'd like that. If you want to discuss the I/P issue go to the I/P forum.

on edit. I'll make it easy for you. Here's a link to the thread. ENJOY!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=124

The Palestinian conflict is central to the question. You were also perfectly comforatable discussing it until you got in a corner and couldn't answer my questions. You know you can't answer the hypocrisy of your argument.

Israel has done far worse than to the Palestinians than Hezbollah has done to Israel. You have yet to refute thise. That means that it is okay for Isarel to be attacked, since you think it is okay for all of Lebanon to be attacked.

And by the way, drawing a comparison to the Palestinians is not starting a Palestinian thread.

Now can you answer my argument or not? Becaue if not, it doesnt' seem you have much of an argument yourself and you are a hypocrite.

Please answer my posts instead of telling what I can and cannot say. Why are you trying to shut down discussion? It seems like you can't answer my argument.

The conflict can then be described as a low intensity border war that has killed - confirmed - only one Israeli civilian in the last six years, up until the July 12 beginning of the latest hostilities. The other two cases from your list are only with great contortions tied to Hezbollah definitively. Even if we accept them without question, that raises the number of Israelis killed since 2000 to eight. In a six year border war. Hardly the constant targeting of civilians that many here have been portraying.

Many countries in Africa, for instance. In fact, the border war between Israel and Hezbollah seems to kill less civilians than most, until this latest dust-up, that is.

I just noticed you posted the same exact article 5 times. That is pretty ludicrous, don't you think? Why didn't you just link to it? After all, this is a pretty long piece you've posted.

I counted more than four missiles.

But unless they revised what they've said on the air without replacing the narrative on the streaming video, a lot of statements upstream are just illogical.

Fox says the IDF doesn't know if the building is the same one in Qana that was targeted; they're checking on it. This isn't to say it wasn't the building; it's not to say it proves Hezbollah was using the building that was bombed.

It allows for plausibly thinking that Hezbollah might have been firing from adjacent to the building; "Hezbollah does not use human shields" is not a valid conclusion, since the video is apparently evidence that it does. That's all you get out of it, and that's all Fox was asserting.

Too many unquestioned assumptions, to many poorly grounded opinions, and little enough validation of the facts. DU, FR ... beginning to have far too many similarities.

that civilians, including women and children, should have been killed by the score. In fact, its release is an insult to the collective intelligence of the rest of the world. IT is not the same event and it is not the same area of the villiage.

Until evidence is brought forth that this building was a legitimate target, there is no defense to this horrible war-crime.

You do not fight terrorism by committing war-crimes. You fertilize it.

so after launching the missiles they decided go over to the local cafe and have some coffee and donuts..why start the truck and move it if the cafe is across the street? so while they were in the cafe omar looked up and realized the idf jet was about to blow up their truck sitting across the street....boy oh boy i bet they got into really big trouble back at the bad guy`s cave without their truck.

so i guess the truck was parked in front of the house because the idf pilot with his image in his laser tracking shield screen saw omar`s truck sitting in front of the building where all the innocents were slaughtered.

if it is reported on american tv why it must be true....

But that video was taken 7/22/06 & Israel isn't saying exactly where it was taken. They also aren't claiming that the building in the video was the building that was bombed last night. Finally, the IDF released this video during a press conference, but didn't release the actual video from the plane that bombed this building. Israeli fighter jets apparantly automatically videotape each strike & we've seen lots of those videos released to the news media. At the press conference, the IDF also showed other tapes of the aeriel bombing of rocket launchers. But they never showed the tape of this particular bombing, even though we know it exists. Also, they said that Hiz. fighters "took cover" in that building, which suggests that they were targeting the building itself. But no Hiz. fighters were found inside. My conclusion: the tape doesn't show any Hizbollah rocket launchers in the vicinity, & it shows a direct strike by Israel on the building itself. The IDF is trying to confuse the issue by releasing this other video instead.

No, I cannot agree.I do not support Hezbullah, Hamas or other groups that are fighting against Israel but this attack
upon Lebanon is not something I can agree with.

or Afghanistan, either.

SSDD, IMO.

of activities in Qana and won't realease it.

nahhh.

Like they did in Jenin. See Security Council Resolution 1405. Israel was supposed to let the UN to do an investigation but never did.

The IDF has a histroy (as do most militaries) of covering things up.

I'll wait and see.

Of course they are.

Hurray! :)

were of another 'similar' incident. Damn they are priceless.

ANY building "could" shield a mobile launcher..

Hey... wait a minute?? Could those be the launchers that Saddam "loaned" Syria ? :sarcasm: