IDF vs US Army

The IDF and US Army are both engaged in conflicts in the middle east.

Based on the vitriol and outright hatred of the IDF posted on DU lately, I'm forced to wonder - why the hypocrisy?

The US Army and Air Force has killed and maimed possibly over 100,000 Iraqis. Far more death, misery, and carnage than Lebanon. Yet we don't spit and curse the US Army vet soldiers returning from Iraq, calling them "baby killers" a la the stories from 'Nam (before my time). Judging from the carnage we've inflicted, you'd think the DUers slamming Israel would also hate our vets coming home from the Iraq conflict. And our soldiers ae volunteers - the IDF are conscripted. They have no choice but to serve.

So please, what's the difference, other than the Iraq conflict is based on a pack of lies that our democratic party continues to fracture over when they should be united with Murtha? We've destroyed Iraq. We've killed tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis and sparked a sectarian civil war.

Israel has not.

is relatively tired news. What else is there to say, really, about the invasion of Iraq based on *'s lies that hasn't already been said multiple times in the past 3 years?

In fact it purposely cutting off water and electricity to them at the start of the current conflict was one of many ways it shows its brutality in ways that I don't think even the US Congress would approve of.

different? The fact the Iraqis have less electricity now than ever under Saddam is somehow different? Iraq is in a much worse way.

But what's happening to the Palestinians is being compared by Arabs to what is happening to the Iraqis now. They're now in the same boat, being unjustly occupied and crushed by foreigners who are empowering domestic extremists.

Its kind of complex. Its like there is this perception of a jewish "group mind" that automatically approves not only of Israel, but of any action or policy executed by Israel...Where as we who are Americans have individual minds, and can approve or disaprove both of our country or its policies as we see fit. Yes its stupid, but I wouldn't call it full blown anti-semitism in the sense the word is applied to some. I think its an ignorance that can be remedied by pro-peace jews and israelis speaking their minds more so that the error of this thinking can be clearly revealed.

Its their terrorist government that I think is shit.

Korea.

Vietnam.

Nicaragua.

Chile.

Iran-Iraq war.

Grenada.

Panama.

Iraq.

Etc, etc, etc.

I dont necessarily believe that everyone in their ENTIRE government is a terrorist, but certainly those that order their military to destroy civilian infrastructure and their absolute disregard for innocent human life.

Do I consider this administration and those responsible for other atrocities in the name of the US citizens piece of shit terrorists? Yes.

... just trying to be helpful here :sarcasm:

Why do you hate America? :eyes:

:P

put them in harms way?

There is no vote that says that your premise is utter bullshit.

nt

viewpoint. It's so obvious even a child could see through this ridiculous farce.

It's embarrassing.

Are we all supposed to just blindly support militant Islam? Ignore it when Hezbollah attacks Israel? Yasser Arafat's legacy is bearing fruit. Clinton had the Palestinian state ready to go and Arafat, out of petty greed and lust for power, rejected it.

Stop trying to confuse the issue.

Like anyone is supporting Islam/Hizbollah when they say stop murdering children. What a crock of inflamed rhetoric - makes me sick.

:thumbsup:

technology. Why does this come as any surprise? Just imagine if the shoe was on the other foot and Lebanon had shitloads of nukes and advanced war machines. Fighter jets, unlimited bombs, an air craft carrier and many other advanced weapons of warfare. If Hezbollah had the same level and amount of weapons as Israel it would be fucking World War III in a heartbeat. Now imagine if Hezbollah got billions from a country that has the most powerful military on the planet.

People fight with rocks and sticks, machetes, slingshots and then there are those lucky countries who can afford a main battle tank.

...The Worlds Most Moral Army™ to *spit* American troops!!


Apologize now!

I would say we have a very small group of anti-Semites at DU. Some know it, others are taken in by the anti-Israeli "feeding frenzy" and unknowingly spew anti-Semitic crap. What I find interesting is the amount of threads that basically say the same damn thing. Or the threads that immediately vilify Israel. Then, there is my favorite...the "I'll be called an anti-Semite" threads, which are usually the most vicious anyway! They trow out the "anti-Semitism" card before anyone else because they have learned it is an effective way to silence some. Thankfully, there are some of us who are not so easily intimidated.

I will give them that, but only because, as far as I'm aware of, they haven't been on raping rampages and don't hire mercs or death squads, yet. Then again, this is faint praise at best, I still don't like either's tactics.

I didn't say anything about the morality of the IDF, but since you bring it up....as with any large group, there are always going to "bad apples." Hell, look at DU! I think the real issue of morality lies with the politicians and the handlers, not the "weapon." The weapon being the respective armies.

I mean, while the US does have a Voluntary force, each MEMBER of that force does have a moral obligation to OBJECT to criminal activities. My problem is that so FEW of them actually do this. I've always had problems with the IDEA of war, in damned near any context, I mean, if, a few years down the road, I heard that a neighbor was an Iraq War vet, I'm more likely than not going to try to avoid said person whenever possible, and keep a wary eye out for them. I mean, I don't think I can ever learn to trust them.

I'm not a pacifist in the traditional sense, I guess is the word, I will defend myself or my family IF threatened, however, I am NOT a killer, and if a draft comes here in the states, I will try to get CO status, if that fails, I spend the next 20 years in Leavenworth, I just can't turn a gun on someone in another damned country that did nothing to mine and kill or hurt them.

Our neo-cons and their neo-cons are alike in that they are willing to perpetrate atrocity to achieve their goals. Both are guilty. Many of the people here have been actively engaged in opposing the ideologies that motivate these savage actions. I see much good intention here, and even some naievity, but relatively little hypocrisy.

Massacre is massacre. The neo-cons running our country have done it. And so has Likud. They are like minded, and their mothers clearly never taught them right from wrong. Don't blame those here who recoil from atrocity in large scale.

The Israelis have a right to defend themselves. Many do not see how that translates to a right to massacre. I, for one, do not.

And I do believe Israel has some fascist fuckers like Netanyahu. I think the Lebanon campaign has been handled poorly to say the least. But that doesn't justify the unadulterated hatred of the people of Israel anymore than the Iraq war justifies the unadulterated hatred of Americans.

But let me clue you in on something: radical Islam is indeed a threat and they are also fascists who would love to take us back to the stone age (and stone women, like that 16 year old girl in Iran).

Which is ironic - considering that during the "Dark Ages" of Europe, when people were illiterate and kept that way by the Catholic church, it was the Muslims who were making scientific discoveries and not allowing their faith to dictate their science.

...if we criticize our troops we are unpatriotic, bas americans, traitors, etc.

I've always said I don't support our troops over there. I wish more people would join me.

Inflammatory.