"Photos that damn Hezbollah" - Australian Herald Sun

If this has been posted, I apologize...

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5200790,00.jpg

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5200788,00.jpg

http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5200791,00.jpg

From the Australian Herald-Sun

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html#


Photos that damn Hezbollah

Chris Link

July 30, 2006 12:00am


THIS is the picture that damns Hezbollah. It is one of several, smuggled from behind Lebanon's battle lines, showing that Hezbollah is waging war amid suburbia.

The images, obtained exclusively by the Sunday Herald Sun, show Hezbollah using high-density residential areas as launch pads for rockets and heavy-calibre weapons.

(cut)

The release of the images comes as Hezbollah faces criticism for allegedly using innocent civilians as "human shields".

Mr Egeland blasted Hezbollah as "cowards" for operating among civilians.

"When I was in Lebanon, in the Hezbollah heartland, I said Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending in among women and children," he said.

putting innocents, children included, in harms way so readily.

:puke:

I'd think that actually killing people would be worse than just having weapons.

I was being a smart-ass... damned DU and its non-existent smart-ass emoticon! :)

I wish we lived in a DU where your smartassery would be immediately obvious.

:hi:

I'm always a smart-ass

except when I'm a dumb-ass :)

...attacking the chimp was genuine or photoshopped. I hope it's real but suspect it's edited. :evilgrin:

it's a few years old, though... I think it was from his Governor days... I added the text to it after finding it via google

considering the reaction he gets out of infants, I have no doubt a feline would react that way!

...lifts his hind leg on those expensive (p)Residential Cowboy Boots. :)

The piscture have been torn apart by several sources. Those are palestinian Christian with anti-aircraft weapons, not rocket launchers.

Of course Israel sends their "settlers" out to live in diputed lands and then is AMAZED when they are fired on.

thank you if you do.

I will try to find it again. one of the factors was the men wearing jewelry, Muslem men don't believe in that.

this topic was started. pm me if you want, or post it here and all can get it (if not locked by then). Thank you again.

Haven't found it yet (dinnertime!) but here is something else interesting:

Human rights organization investigation claims that IDF used 6 Palestinians as human shields for 12 hours. IDF examining claim
Efrat Weiss
The human rights organization B'Tselem claims that IDF soldiers used six Palestinians, two of them underage, as human shields for twelve hours during IDF operations this week in Beit Hanoun in the northern Gaza strip.

A B'Tselem investigation published Thursday states that during the operation, IDF forces took over two buildings in Beit Hanoun. The residents served as human shields at that time, during which exchanges of fire took place between IDF forces and Palestinian operatives. The organization claims that the soldiers endangered the lives of the Palestinians in the buildings, who were forced to remain where they were, contrary to their wishes.

The investigation further states that, among other things, the soldiers forced a female resident to accompany them during a search of the buildings' apartments, bound the hands of the residents, and put them in a stairwell exposed to gunfire

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3279175,00.html

Re: Herald Sun photos:

"I thought my points were quite clear:

a) It was claimed that rockets were launched from a suburb in Beirut. Hezbollah has no rockets that can hit Israel from Beirut.

b) There are pictures of a group of men riding on an anti-aircraft gun. There's no indication they are Hezbollah at all, and an anti-aircraft gun is a defensive weapon.

c) There's a picture of an aged man holding a AK47, no indication at all that he's Hezbollah. Plus how many AK47 owners do you think there are in the middle-east?

-- anonymous"

"Actually that Herald Sun photo claimed to have a broken down truck IN A CHRISTIAN NEIGHBOURHOOD, in the east of Lebanon.

Some genius might like to inform us all why the shi'ite Hezbollah would be in a christian neighbourhood and then pin point any christian neighbourhood that has been bombed to bits.

The Herald Sun is a rag. The article also claims that Katushya rockets had been fired from that christian area - if so were the christians firing them when we know for sure that none have been fired from Beirut at all.

-- Joanne

Let's see how fast it pops up again! Apparently, it has more lives than several cats.

http://letters.salon.com/news/feature/2006/07/28/hezbollah/view/index2.html?show=all

a 23 mm 2 barrelled anti-aircraft gun manufactured by the Soviet Union and distributed worldwide.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ZU-23-2.jpg

And how the centre photo, the one with the man carrying a folding-stock AK-47 figures into this guilt is beyond me.

We know Hezbollah does in fact hide out amongst civilians and picture or not that is a disgraceful tactic, period.

And the Israelis keep saying they KNOW this and yet they shoot the civilians anyway....what lovely people they are.

than to 'hide amognst them'

when OUR military bombed the shit out of Falluja, DU was unaninmously opposed to such a disgraceful tactic

my statement.

One needs not compare two sides in order to condemn one sides tactics.

But I also don't practice in narrow-minded strawmen responses that display ignorance and falsity.

For example, if I proclaimed that getting a pencil jammed straight through your eye sucks, I wouldn't also need to add that so does getting a cattle prod shoved in your ass. And if someone replied to me and said "How dare you proclaim that getting a pencil jammed straight through your eye sucks when getting a cattle prod shoved up your ass is so much worse!", I'd laugh at them and think they were narrow minded ignoramuses.

yours was a good example, plus insults added to further delegitimize your position

nicely done

that I still am in awe that I have to defend. Hezbollah hiding out amongst civilians is a disgraceful tactic.

There. Such a simple statement. Nothing elusive or irrational about it. Why on earth there are actually people on DU who disagree with that notion or feel the zealous need to viciously attack for it is quite perplexing.

no visciousness to be found here

"What lovely people they are," to quote you back to yourself.

This is because, quite honestly, the Near East doesn't have a lot of area that is unpopulated.

However when Israel launches its shells from Haifa or wherever, they're "defending the population of the town". When Hezbollah fires rockets from one of their towns, they're "hiding behind civilians".

Odd, huh? Both groups are in a fine position to release lots of photos of their civilian dead to spread outrage. Neither are likely to do this intentionally though - Dead Lebanese don't help Hezbollah any more than dead Israelis help the IDF. They just have nowehre else to fight

Filled with logic, while providing little grist for for the partisans. Thank you.

Israeli jets, damns them? Oh, no AA Guns and they would've been spared. You mean like those in areas that Hezbollah doen't control, and yet they got some that American made Israeli provided lovin'in the form of bombs.

And we'll then hear about "indiscriminate" attacks on civilians then.

Makes sense to have your AA guns placed somewhere that they'll actually be effective- in other words, in range of the aircraft

or maybe ask their families to leave?

What, the guns are not in range unless they're in the neighborhood. They have like, several miles of range.

all the bridges and roads were destroyed in the first week of this madness... people are pretty much stuck

and where is this mother you speak of? What does this image tell you about the buildings in the background, that you presume are someone's mother's house?

I grew up less than a mile from a defense supply center, 2 miles from an Army base... if I had been Lebanese, you'd be saying this about my family and my government; and the U.S. has PLENTY of room to put supply centers and bases

They live amongst the civilians - thousands per square mile. They don't have your luxury of being "miles" away from the base. They live IN the base. The base is their neighborhood.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Do you NOT think that hiding amongst civilians is a disgraceful tactic?

This post is a dupe. And a provocative one.

Pictures or no pictures, we know that Hezbollah hides out amongst innocent civilians. That practice is a disgraceful one, period.

So, this isn't all about starting another flame-war?

I was just giving an honest response to the issue. Regardless of the OP's intent, Hezbollah hiding out amongst civilians is still a disgraceful tactic. So I find my point to still be valid regardless of the OP's intent.

Over and over again. Just like the OP.

This is getting tiresome.

addressing why or how it isn't valid? That would be a good start.

and not the first time today.

you feel the need to engage in such falsities merely because you have a differing view.

Personally, though, I'm amazed that you think that terrorists hiding out amongs innocent civilians is not a disgraceful tactic. But to each their own.

and contained two sentences. So, read the OP and post a two sentence reply in under 60 seconds.

read through the OP again in less than 20. I responded as I saw fit and if you don't like it that really isn't my problem.

As far as joining in the ridiculously childish, false, ignorant and narrow-minded assertion that I was engaging in some sort of tag teaming, well, you need to get a grip as well.

so transparent.

Guess it isn't so 'transparent' after all oh wise one. :rofl:

Don't you love that certain DU option that starts with "I?"
LOL,
BHN

you bad BHN!

:hi:

But to them I ask this:

1) Do you think Hezbollah thinks Israel will say "let's not bomb those defensive weapons?"
2) Does Hezbollah actually think they're going to shoot down a high-altitude F-16 with those things?
3) What good does parking them in a civilian area accomplish?

However, I have seen these 3 pictures many times, and they show only what they do. I have seen many many other pictures, a much higher number of different pictures, of bombed houses, dead children and women. The number is disproportionate. 2 pictures of the same guys in front of the same building, and picture of a guy on a hill don't rationalize the reaction for me.

makes me wonder, though: are there any non-civilian-dense areas they could operate from instead?

It's a bunch of guys with guns and a missile beside.. a building. I'm sorry.. exactly how does that show 'human shields'?

Oh brother. this is the worst kind of propoganda. I hate hezbollah and other terrorist groups, just as I hate any group that kills. But couldn't the case be made that the reason these people operate there is to protect their areas?? It goes both ways.. both sides suck.

It's been well documented on many different types of media. Just do a google search and you'll see.

Sometimes when they complain about "civilians" getting killed it's really terrorists hiding among their families.

seems to make sense to me that you setup your defenses in the areas that are being attacked, not off in the wilderness somewhere

The logic is reversed.

that makes no sense, why would the aircraft bomb a civilian area because of AA guns there, if the AA guns are not setup near any strategic place? They would just miss!

when you won't give in, you'd say gravity wasn't real and ask for links.

DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH. You'll get 500k hits on Google on this subject alone. It's everywhere.

they never do. :eyes:

some things don't need a "link." They're well known and accepted. So is this.

the RW media and their adoring fans perhaps but not by any critically thinking progressive I know. Show me some facts and I will evaluate them. Pretty simple if you have them.

fact and your personal opinion, correct?. This is why people ask for silly things like "proof" and "evidence" when you make an assertion.

And since I've seen this particular dance before, let me save you 10 minutes: no WorldNetDaily links.

:)

First were the he** in Lebanon do you not "hide amongst civilians". I think what the pro-Israel propagandists depend on is "thinking American", so here is a comparison: the population density of Lebanon is 948 people per sq. mile that's a population of 3,874,050 4035 sq mile area/US population density 83 per sq mile that's 298,869,503 area 3,718,711 sq miles. that means that Lebanon is 11.4 times as densely populated that quite a concentration of people. Think about it 948/sq mi vs 83/sq mi
Also there was nothing in those pictures to lead me to believe they were amongst civilians, other than the story.
Source Wikipedia

There are some real pros on this board who could "learn" him a thing or two.

my backyard to defend my family.

Just saying.

I and my fellow 150K plus live near this not so secret site :)_

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1785389&mesg_id=1785389

which would make it a defensive weapon, not an offensive one.

In picture 2 he has an ak-47. There are quite a number of ak-47s all over the middle east. It's a really really common weapon.

I don't see these pictures as being as damning as the article claims.

doesn't mean it can't be used to confuse folks about what happened in Qana.

Good job.

Don't bitch to me...I didn't write the story.

And besides, I think this story was written BEFORE Qana.

:eyes:

Wow, you really got me. And so constructive.

Moving anti-airccraft guns into areas that are being attacked by aircraft. Damn them.

So this is really 2 pictures.

not that it matters a great deal - but they are 3 separate pictures.

Totally different. :evilgrin:

n/t

Yes, there are rules of war by the way - it's sounds oxiMORONIC but it's true - and most countries to follow them.

For instance, most countries don't try to take out the Generals - you know why? Because a leaderless army is more dangerous than one with a leader. Troops running wild with weapons is a bad thing anywhere.

Anyway, they don't follow ANY rules. Setting up their weapons in neighborhoods, from hospitals, from schools, from ambulences - this has all been documented and reported on many different news outlets.

As bad as Israel and the US may appear (and often discussed on this board), they don't do these things.

Hezabollah is a TERRORIST ARMY and must be disarmed - by force if necessary.

dressed in civilian clothes, didn't follow the rules of conventional warfare at that time period, etc

They did act as "terrorists" is some ways. But they didn't hide among civilians while they fought. They didn't pretent to surrender and then open fire.

But yes, you're right.

there were no civilians in the 13 colonies? The revolutionaries fled to the forest and made the Brits chase them down?

killed and then blended into and were hidden by the storekeepers

I guess I read the wrong history books -

so Washington was trying for a lot of civilian deaths for PR purposes.

Yep - those Hez are just like we were....

wouldn't that make the storekeepers "supporters"? Wouldn't that imply a willingness on the storekeepers' part?

Just wondering.. because if you're keeping score, I'd say Israel is the army that is looking at war crimes here.

If they're fighting from buildings, hiding in buildings, storing weapons in buildings, meeting in buildings, etc. where there are civilians, children, and women, they are sick cowards that need to be killed anyway. And yes, they're legitimate tatgets then.

What should we do - let them live so they can kill us tomorrow?

Israel isn't out there bombing wilderness...

you can bet on that.

Interesting. Won't help GM's sales much.

it's a fricken' aa gun not a picture that "damns hezbollah"

this whole idiotic thing is through the looking glass

of just lt them hand around while you were firing rockets and guns?

I would hide them away somewhere so they didn't have to face death themselves for my beliefs.

Of course, these guys don't do that.

none of those men look like "family members"

and it's easy to say "hide in the basement" but that presumes there is still a basement to hide in

if this were a picture of Iraqis, everyone posting in this thread would be in agreement :eyes:

you might man an anti-aircraft gun, with the hope of defending your area from attacking aircraft. Oh look, that's what these men are doing. Who knows where they families are? You don't. Given that Israel has been bombing civilian houses, putting the defences next to the houses seems like a bright idea. You could take the DHS route, and defend "the beach at the end of the street", I suppose. But defending targets seems as if it's more likely to save lives.

despite the ridiculous headline, those photos don't show anything.

I see no evidence of an "urban center" in fact the only people in that photo appear to be members of Hez. which suggests to me that they are NOT in an "urban center"

defenses are setup around places that need defending, it's really quite simple

Murdoch lies, some people are fooled.

Who'da thunk it?

And Israel has vowed to destroy them? So they found some World War II era guns and went outside to defend themselves?

I see.

Damn them.

These people claiming that the Israelis are attacking these sites because the defenses are there are ridiculous. If the targets of Israeli bombs were out in the middle of nowhere and the Hez set up their AA guns in some city, the Israelis wouldnt be bombing that city. The Israelis would be smart enough to know that pathetic little Soviet-era AA guns aren't going to do anything to their supersonic jets flying around miles away.

I had the impression that Lebanon, especially in the south where all the missile launchers are based was a very little world, packed with villages everywhere. In fact, on CNN they describe the Lebanese villages where Israeli troops are fighting as being just one mile from Israeli villages across the border. Since missile launchers are towed by trucks and trucks run on roads and roads go through towns and towns are right next to each other in Lebanon, I don't think the photos are that significant. Chances are, a mobile missile launcher has been towed past a building once or twice in its life.

And by the way, is that even "a launch pad for rockets" shown in the photos as the article suggests? It looks more to me like an antiquated anti-aircraft gun, a defensive and not an offensive weapon. If it's anti-aircraft, then it's normal for it to be located in towns as that's where most anti-aircraft guns in the history of air warfare have been located. If Israel were fighting against a country with airpower, they would have have their cities and towns ringed with anti-aircraft guns too.

I'm sure those bridges and roads were nowhere near any civilian areas :sarcasm:

not only that, but it makes it harder for civilians to flee when all the escape-routes are destroyed

From your cite:

The photographs, from the Christian area of Wadi Chahrour in the east of Beirut, were taken by a visiting journalist and smuggled out by a friend.

As Joanne posted on Salon:

"Actually that Herald Sun photo claimed to have a broken down truck IN A CHRISTIAN NEIGHBOURHOOD, in the east of Lebanon.

Some genius might like to inform us all why the shi'ite Hezbollah would be in a christian neighbourhood and then pin point any christian neighbourhood that has been bombed to bits.

The Herald Sun is a rag. The article also claims that Katushya rockets had been fired from that christian area - if so were the christians firing them when we know for sure that none have been fired from Beirut at all.


http://letters.salon.com/news/feature/2006/07/28/hezbollah/view/index2.html?show=all

BTW: I did a Google, and the phrase "Photos that damn Hezbollah" has 129,000 hits!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Photos+that+damn+Hezbollah%22&btnG=Search

GOOGLE swarm? I think that's the term for gaming the system.

Isn't there a DU rule against duplicate posting the same article?

and the pro-Israeli and Right Wing websites are riding the shamefully mis-titled article until they can find something better or until it becomes a joke.

hiding" amidst civilians. I don't see how a guerilla war can be fought otherwise.

The critique presupposes an utter ignorance of military doctrine about how to fight an asymmetrical opponent.