I/P forum posting rules.

How many of you have ever posted in I/P? I have posted there maybe 5 times in my 3 years here. Anyway, here are the rules as per Skinner.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x21970

Welcome to the Democratic Underground Israeli/Palestinian Affairs discussion forum. As you know, this is where you may discuss issues surrounding the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians. These can be very emotional issues for many. In order to facilitate rational discourse, we have found it wise to implement a few guidelines to supplement the general DU rules for discussing I/P issues that one will not find elsewhere on the website.

Please take some time to familiarize yourself with the following guidelines. Offending threads will be locked or pulled. Offending posts may be deleted. Those who repeatedly violate these guidelines may be banned. If you are in doubt, please Private Message the forum moderators.

Who is Welcome In the I/P Forum, who is not:

We welcome progressives of all stripes and specifically note the I/P forum has many progressives whose affinity lie on opposite ends of the I/P debate. Do not assume that because someone is Pro-Israeli or Pro-Palestinian they are not progressive. A good rule of thumb for those who will do well are those who are actively seeking a peaceful and respectful settlement and are genuinely interested in a rational discourse of events in the I/P conflict.
If you feel great affinity to groups who are promoting hate in the Middle East such as Kahane, or Hamas; feel there is a Jewish conspiracy governing US foreign policy or control of the media; or believe supporters of Islam or Palestinian Nationalism are terrorists, then you are probably likely to be banned.
Concerning the overall nature of the post:

Do not embed graphics or photographs of any kind into your messages. Maps or statistical graphs are okay.
Do not put anything in your signature line that has any relation to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
Do not start a Poll in the I/P forum.
Do not start a new thread on a topic that has already been covered. Duplicates will be locked or deleted.
Proper subject matter:

New Threads

New threads must be based on a recently-published news item or op-ed piece. They may not be based on editorial cartoons or photographs. Citations and references should include a link to the original source. Exceptions will be allowed if, based on prior approval, the moderators feel a thread is appropriate.
All threads must be based on material originally published no more than 3 weeks ago. The "clock" does not restart if an article is republished. Exceptions will be allowed, if based on prior approval, the moderators feel a thread is appropriate.
The subject heading for threads must contain the title of the source article. The only exception is when you must shorten long titles or to make the subject of the article more clear.
Editorializations and comments are to be saved for the Message body and must be separate and distinct from the text of the article.
General

Do not selectively quote articles with the intent to change the original meaning.
Do not discuss the truthfulness and/or stupidity of various religions. Do not assume you know what someone believes simply because they practice a certain religion.
Do not make over-sweeping or stereotypical generalizations of any group or individual. This includes making statements, either overtly or subtly, which are Anti-Semitic or Anti-Muslim.
Please stay on topic. Do not jump into an unrelated discussion and introduce a barely-relevant tangent in order to bring up your pet issue.
Civility

To re-emphasize, the general DU rules rules still apply for expected civility and behavior.
Do not publicly accuse someone of being a conservative. If you feel such a comment is warranted, you may do so privately using the "Alert" button.
Do not publicly accuse anyone of anti-Semitism, racism, or any bigoted bias. If you feel such a comment is warranted, you may do so privately using the "Alert" button.
Inflammatory material that adds nothing to the debate is likely to be locked or deleted.
Do not post accusations of anti-Semitism, racism, bigotry, personal attacks, plagerism, duplicate threads or any other rules violation. This includes claims against yourself or other people. Such posts add nothing to the discussion and often create more problems than the original rules violation. Use the "Alert" button instead, the moderators will deal with the post as soon as they are able.
A note on sources:

Please use discretion when referencing obviously biased or factually questionable material. Vanity websites are generally not as credible as the New York Times, the Washington Post or the UK Guardian and are likely to be locked. A good rule of thumb is to ask yourself is the author readily identifiable and likely to be cited by the mainline world press or encountered in an alternate format (mass-published book, academic journal, newspaper article, radio or TV show).
Please avoid posting "information" from overtly racist websites. A good, but not exhaustive, guide is Franklin's Hate Directory (www.hatedirectory.com ).
Posting from Whatreallyhappened.com, Chronwatch.com or Debka.com is specifically not allowed.
Proper use of certain words:

Please exercise extreme caution and sensitivity when using the words "anti-Semitism" or "Zionism." There is a wide range of opinion on the meaning of these words. If you must use them, please make sure your intended meaning is clear.
Do not use the term "Zionist" to mean "Jew" or "Israeli." Do not use the term "Jew" to mean "Israeli".
Do not call Palestinians "terrorists" unless you are actually talking about people who blow up cafes or busses filled with civilians.
Do not compare Middle East regional leaders and parties to Hitler or the Nazis. Use of these terms is considered inflammatory and should be avoided.
Do not call other members of this message board "terror apologist," "Palestinian apologist," "Israeli apologist," "Nazi," "Fascist," "Sharonist," "Likudist", etc.
Our goal is to provide a forum where issues concerning Israel and Palestine may be discussed openly but intelligently in an atmosphere of mutual respect for opposing sides. Please help us towards this end. If you have any questions, please contact the board monitors or the site administrators.

Thank you
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x21970

...and am tired of the trash people are spewing. It has turned nasty.

I was thinking about reading those rules earlier today. I never spend time in I/P so I am not familiar with them. I and many others have broken several of those rules. It might be time to apply them in GD.

It is certainly not much use to people intending to raise heat rather than shed light in discussing the matter. The regulars there include people who are very well informed, and sufficiently practiced to make short shrift of persons whose contributions consist of regurgitated slogans.

I know, and so many others here know that I/P forum do very little justice to democracy and freedom of speech to what's taken place in the middle east.

Is the well-being of Democratic Underground, discussion of a serious matter in a reasonable way requiring command of the facts concerning it, and the desires of the proprietors here.

Reality, by the way, requires no benefit from anyone, existing in its own right quite independently of any view....

"Reality is that which, when you cease to believe in it, continues to exist."

"Reality is that which, when you cease to believe in it, continues to exist."


Then, Sir, we agree. We agree that it is reality that I/P here on DU should be discussed openly, and fairly. Reality is that Palestine exists, unless we see to it that we no longer think it is reality, Sir.

Openly and fairly does not mean an echo chamber for anyone in particular's view of the matter. That may be the point on which you founder in assessing the practices put in place by the Administrators of the site.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I would avoid the place for that reason alone. Wow.

And the rules aren't too difficult to follow. I arrived at DU in November 2002 after the I/P forum had been created and had its own set of rules, and when I went back into the archives and read some of the early cyber-battles going on, it's a good thing some rules were introduced, coz watching people doing nothing but name-calling gets really boring after about the first post...

But I won't be silenced.

When I scan something as elaborately spelled-out as that, my thoughts go to the reasons behind it all.

What I see is one big toxic flame-fest after another, and admins and mods who are trying desperately to keep WW III from breaking out at DU.

Do you think it's a case of either enforcing rules or banning the topic altogether?

Hekate

Grew out of bitter experience of the free for alls on the subject that reached a climax early in 2002. The topic was first sequestered to the old Foreign Affairs forum, and then these rules were promulgated, aimed at specific excesses that had till then dominated discussion of the matter. Mr. Jack Rabbit and I were the first moderators charged with enforcing them, starting in the spring of 2002. I gave it up after some adverse developments in my health at the end of that summer, and Mr. Lithos succeeded me.

although I didn't show up at DU until around September 2002.

I made one (1) post about my impressions of ANSWER Coalition, was thoroughly flamed for my troubles, was told it was my own fault and I should have posted in I/P. I've avoided the I/P forum like the plague as a result of that experience.

I'm sure I've deviated from Confucian standards of courtesy many times, but I don't enjoy brawls.

Hekate

The I/P debate is a religious war. No, I'm not talking about any religious discourse in the Middle East, but the rather fanatical unilateralism shown by many of those who claim to "know" exactly what is going on. This type of zealotry is at best emotionally based, raw, immature, projecting and devoid of any real understanding of the Middle East and the extreme complexity and intricacies involved. Doesn't matter how they go about their way, they "know" what is "right" and thus any rules or decency obviously do not apply to them.

One of the other cold hard truths is the level of zealotry often makes it easy for people and groups with biased and bigoted agendas to interject their own, often hateful memes into the zealot's vocabulary without any hint of understanding by the zealot. People rarely understand the truth that an enemy of my enemy can by my enemy too. Some of the memes and topics I've removed have been horrendous in their full implication, yet were said in complete sincerity by the user who took it only at face value.

Obviously such behavior is counterproductive to the point that any meaningful discussion gets drowned out in the noise. These rules are meant to filter out the noise and to establish a base standard for people to work under to allow a chance to learn and discuss what's going on without fear of being attacked by a zealot or burned out from all of the energy and vitriole. I've tweaked it twice from the original publication; for the most part it works, those who post there now are for the most part extremely knowledgable about what's going on, though sometimes even so the debate rolls back to the cliches and trite comments.

that the Palestinian issue is about religion. NO. no, no, no! Palestine is a land Israel occupies, and It has nothing to do with religion, but OCCUPATION.

been deleted,name removed ,and yelled at. i/p is not for the faint of heart. i`ve also seen alot of people come and go....

It's a fascinating subject. If you keep a civil tongue in your head and don't allow yourself to be baited, you will do fine.

I've learnt a lot since I first started posting there, and apart from a few isolated snarks, I've done fine. Reading the bloodbaths threads in GD over the past few weeks has made me appreciate the I/P forum more than I did before, and I fear the verbal artillery rounds I've read in GD may unduly influence my posting style, Mr. Camel-Dung-Breath-Hezbollah-Supporter-Fascist-Lackey-Swine!!! ;)

...or nothing crowd. The 100% "anti" or "pro" one of the sides and the "good" vs. "evil" gang will not like it there.

There are people who favor one side or the other who like the forum and are always there lurking or participating without breaking the rules.

Thank the mods for the rules! It cuts down on the crap and irrelevant posts that is produced by some posters (no matter what side they sympathize with).

Some break the rules, then find a way to revive the locked/deleted post. Those are likely to give up and come to GD.

Rules are good and keeps us all in check. Without the rules there would be chaos and the forum would be like those Yahoo! message boards where the topic can be "ballet" or "World Cup" or "NHL rookie draft" but the "liberal vs. conservatives", "pro-choice vs pro-life", "pro-gay marriage vs. anti-gay marriage", etc. dominate in number of posts.

And everybody knows how ridiculous those exchanges get... :-)

since this started is that we don't really have a base point of understanding. It's a free for all which is the great thing about GD, but can also be its downfall.