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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:05 PM
Original message
An idea about the filibustering
I was thinking about the filibustering ordeal and maybe the democrats aren't saying anything for sure because they don't want to be seen as obstructionsts even though the public in all the polls I've seen are clearly on their side where it concerns Alito. I think perhaps they are waiting to announce a filibuster at the last moment much like how Reid and Durbin did when they closed the Senate. So perhaps they're doing a lot of behind the scenes work and this is why Frist is denying them the speaking on the floor deal. Remember how Reid and Durbin closing the Senate really shocked and surprised everyone and Frist couldn't stop them. I do think we need to keep the pressure on and do what we can to show them the public is against Alito and they should do it. Remember the republicans are good at PR even though it's slimey and people do watch the "news." So it's the only thing I'm thinking of.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. we can hope. n/t
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. IMHO, the Democrats, not wanting to be obstructionists, is what
got us where we are today. Little by little they have compromised too much and now the Bush administration has too much power. I would like to see more obstructionism myself. When they lie down and fold over, many people just throw up their hands in disgust and walk away. They feel they have no say in anything so why bother to care.
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Would our situation be improved if they stood up
and were proven to be powerless? Which story is better "Democrats are impotent" or "Democrats are spineless?"

I have come around to favoring a filibuster; but still concerned about this side of the issue.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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shance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Absolutely. They would be praised because both Republicans and Dems
oppose this Nomination.

I cannot understand why they won't stand up. If they are being intimidated and threatened, they should come forward and expose the threats and intimidation. Because their choice not to stand up endangers all Americans and threatens our future.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. Exactly. There can be constructive obstructionism or maybe
we should call it objecting to the undemocratic processes that are happening.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. its an understandable question, but in my view, not standing up
is automatically powerless.
If the republicans were reasonable and fair adversaries, then keeping your powder dry would make sense. But let me couch it this way:
If you were a Jew in 1940s germany, would you think it better to stand up and possibly be sent to a camp, or collaborate with the nazis?
Even if you are unsucessful, sometimes the situation is so dire that you either have to stand up against tyrants or you become complicit in their crimes.


Sometimes the act of standing up is more important than the outcome of that act.
And yet, sometimes, the act of standing up draws more likeminded people to your act of bravery, and then you have a lot MORE power.

No leader ever drew more followers by capitulating to the enemy, that I'm aware of.

as my uncle used to say "Go BIG or go home".

If THEY don't do it, no one else is in their position to do so. They owe it to the american people to do everything in their power, even if unsucessful, and EVEN IF IT MEANS NOT GETTING REELECTED, to serve the people. We hired them to do a job. We didn't hire them to protect their own employment. Public service is a sacred trust and its about damn time we got back to realizing that.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. There was a study done some time ago. I wish I had a reference.
It was an article I read decades ago, that the Jews who did stand up to the Nazis were the ones who had a better chance of survival. The ones who went meekly to the camps were the ones who died.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. There are times that being an obstructionist is idiotic.
Think of former Republican Congressman Bob Dornan and all the stupid and silly things he did while in office. Yes, then it's a bad thing, but in this case, we are having a genuine Constitutional crisis. Al Gore said it and couldn't say it any better. We need to stop these political panzers from rolling over us and crushing us.
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Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I feel
the same way you do. I'd to see more obstructionism. I feel a great sense of relief, and triumphalism, when the Repukes get one in the eye.

On the other hand, my brain tells me that such tactics are counter-productive, and will only harm the Democratic Party. I know in personal lives, the people who are always contrarians seldom get their way.

So sometimes I feel one way about being obstructionist; sometimes I feel the other way.

Right now, though, I don't see that we have any other bullets for our gun. So I'm all for obstructionism. And if we pay a price at the polls, well, we already don't control all 3 branches of government. But I think our timid Democratic Party leaders aren't going to let it happen.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Yes, sometimes standing up for what is right will get
you hurt or even killed. I think of the poor Chinese man facing down the tanks in Tianamen Square, or even in our backyard Cindy Sheehan, but there is strength in numbers and that's what we have to strive for.
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Autumn Colors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
7. Will any Republicans abstain from voting?

If enough of them abstain from voting (or *gasp* vote NO), then the dem wouldn't NEED to filibuster, would they?
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Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. I love your
alternate reality. How do I get there?
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Autumn Colors Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
8. Self delete (I had gotten an error when posting) n/m
Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 02:29 PM by Autumn Colors
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. The element of surprise.......
Edited on Thu Jan-19-06 03:49 PM by sparosnare
Why on earth would our Senators announce they're going to filibuster, and give the Repugs a reason to shoot off their mouths?? I really think they're going to do it, but are playing a smart strategy by keeping quiet right now. Makes sense to me.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. I hope so, however, this Congress hasn't shown very
much smart strategy in the past as a group, so I'm not expecting very much.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Reid is a sly one though.
I've seen him operate, and heard him speak on the floor. He seems so laid back and unassuming, then he zings. I've got to at least hope he's got something up his sleeve.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. On PBS Newshour last night, Senator Reid said that the Democrats have
prepared a list of additional questions that they want Alito to answer and have submitted them to him. I haven't seen anything more about that though. I wonder what the questions were, and when and how Alito will answer them. I've googled it, but find nothing written about it. Curious.
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Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I don't' think
it would surprise anyone.

I'll bet they have a plan ready, just like the Pentagon probably has a plan ready for invading France.
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Really?
Your remark is somewhat odd.
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Burning Water Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Why?
You don't think the Republicans will try to cover every angle??
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Avalux Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-19-06 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. OK, I get it now.
Yes, they probably will. That's precisely why it's wise for Dems to play coy. A good sign Salazar said he'd vote no today, BTW.
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