Wow, GD sure is informative today.

I've learned that:

• The British terror plot is a hoax contrived to keep Ned Lamont out of the US news

• As a corollary to the above, UK intelligence deeply gives a shit about Connecticut

• Karl Rove is behind it all

There's a lot to be said for not taking everything reported in the news at face value. However, there's also a lot to be said for not going straight for around the bend loony at the drop of a hat. Ned Lamont is important for us, critically important, but apart from commentary, he's literally yesterday's news. The very fact that every bit of big news is taken here as an "obvious distraction" bespeaks an incredible solipsism (your pet story should be front page above the fold in prepetuity? really?) and a seemingly willful denial of the plain fact that different newsworthy thing happen on different days.

Plus, if all of the above points were true, seems to me Lieberman would have won to begin with. In a fight between DailyKos and the MI6, it's not hard to predict a clear winner.

Some paranoia is to be expected - even justified - in the current US political climate. But are we really so reactionary here?

But I'm sure we'll largely deny it.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

RIGHT FUCKING NOW!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1871714&mesg_id=1871714

"Why'd you fucking call me?"

*sigh* I think they put me back on the 5 second delay rule.

:eyes:

Which side are you on?

Whose side ar eyou on? And welcome to DU.

Bryant

You're off to a great start. :thumbsup:

I just cannot see Democrats bashing each other and not wonder if they are all "real" Democrats.

I take it that it's one who agrees with you unconditionally? Democrats who disagree can all be real, and decrying knee-jerk lunacy isn't bashing.

Welcome to DU. I know whose side I'm on, thanks.

You can disagree with other democrats in a polite and civil manner, and still manage to say the equivalent to what you said above.

It is OK to disagree.

It is NOT OK to Bash.

And bashing is just what you were doing here.

I have a suggestion of a book you need to read, son; "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie. It will change your life.

:wow:

In what particulars?

So my "bashing" is verbotten, but that kind of unabashedly patronizing shit is OK? Please help me out with some details here, obviously I need to take notes, mommy.

GET OUT OF MY ROOM! :sarcasm:

Seriously, though: You're too funny, you're killing me. Welcome to DU.

It's the GOP who marches in lockstep.

:eyes:

He is cute.

I adore beagles.

It really speaks to my appreciation of neo-romantic architecture.


Oh, wait, it's just a tombstone.

Never mind.

THAT one was easy to spot, though.

thanks for chuckle!

i hear a lot of "suggestion" not a single fact.,,
except that somewhere may exist 21 "suspects"

the rest is just breathless baloney.... hey even the
president is off fundraising today

says no evidence. But headline on yahoo does the damage.

But coming to the conclusion - as many DUers seem to have - that British Intelligence is attempting to supress Ned Lamont is, in my opinion, a less tenable conclusion to arrive at without evidence than is the possibility of a plot being discovered.

that I'm disputing.

It's that the correct measured response to this putative plot was to start shouting, "CODE RED! CODE RED! CODE RED!"

A non-operational plot is uncovered in Britian and we can't just report on it here in the US and move on?

Or how are you using, to be more precise.

nationals. No liquid bombs in the field so to speak. So why report on it 24/7 with red alerts and flight delays all over this country?

I mean there's a continuum of terrorism - a guy saying "yeah they should blow up washington" isn't news, while a guy actualy blowing up washington would be news - somewhere in the middle of that continuum is planning an operation, but not being quite ready to pull it off before getting caught.

And as for the quetion, come on - the news business is in the habit of presenting news that gets peple all excited and tuning in, and this fits the bill.

Bryant

and taking proper precautions and purposely scaring people are two different things. If there hadn't been a 9/11, how do you think things would be reported and handled? I wasn't minimizing threats, just trying to show the manipulation to follow.

"CODE RED! CODE RED! CODE RED!" is.

you eloquently said exactly what I was thinking. :thumbsup:

Not everything is about us, and it seems a few DUers need to learn that lesson. I think it is time to hunker down for a few days while the conspiracy theories start flying. How many days do you bet this will go on?

sadly. :shrug:

milking this plot for political expediency by shouting "CODE RED! CODE RED! CODE RED!"?

Because we have no reason to believe those good and honest people would ever pull a stunt like this?

For the administration? You seem to be putting alot of effort into calling us the "loony" left. That just makes us go "hmmmmmmm".

And get my name on the list of people who you go "hmmmmmm" about. I mean if we are going to have a witch hunt around here, sign me up.

Also if you need additional evidence against me when the trials begin, here are a few other points.

MIHOP is nonsense. People who believe in MIHOP are beliving in nonsense.

While there is legitimate concern over voting machines in this country, much of what people say is overblown and proposterous, and has the effect of discouraging voting (although I assume that is not the intent).

Remember, that's Bryant with a y and a t, not an i and no t.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

But when somebody here at DU goes all out to provoke people with an OP like that, he's usually up to no good. (And you know it, so stop being disingenous).

I see that he's got a 1000 posts and a star.

Those aren't usually the calling cards of the people that make you go "hmmmmmm" ANd if we are going to avoid being disingenious, why not make your accusations crystal clear instead of covering them over in that fog?

Bryant

You're all over the place with it. Experience tells me that you'll be like a pit bull with a bone about it, too. Whatever floats your boat.

the question. You don't really want to make a real accusation, just place the thought in peoples heads that there's something suspicious about the OP.

If I have an accusation to make I'll own up to it.

Have lost their credibility. What else do you need to know before you stop swallowing everything they say when it's politically expedient? If I'm a paranoid nut, does that make you a sucker?

Either I must reject everything coming from anybody even connected to this administration or I must swallow everything they say when it is politically expedient?

Bryant

Na na na na na na!:woohoo:

Gotta love that silliness. Makes me wonder what'd happen if the administration suddenly started believing in evolution or gay marriage or basic civics at times.

How profoundly measured and reasonable of you.

You're obviously not the kind of guy who goes around shouting "CODE RED! CODE RED! CODE RED!" at the drop of hat.

You're with us or with the terrorists! There are no choices! You must be in total agreement or you're a troll!

:eyes: Spare me.

And I like my Conspiracy Theory better than the CT Connection. My theory is that it's all an attempt by John Reid to take over the British Government whilst Tony takes a holiday in the sun. In this way he can also prevent Tony from returning any time soon to try and take back control. Much more plausible when you think about it really. 007...over and out.:tinfoilhat: :beer:

and the sad thing is, I actually mean that, even though yours is triple thickness tinfoil nonsense, as I'm sure you meant it to be. One thing you can guarantee about DU is that someone, probably several people, will not have a sense of perspective about a news story.

a bit to do with it. But then, I'm a liberal wacko, so what do I know?

We have an admitted liberal on this thread!!!

"mass murder on an unimaginable scale." BOOOOOOOOOOOOO There is a CORRECT way to go about it and not announce it like something HAPPENED..this is an investigation into criminal activity. I do not see MAJOR announcements every time a bank robbery plot is uncovered before the act.

TERRA TERRA TERRA ...sorry I ain't buying!

in 10/95 (per Richard Clarke), why have 'they' let unidentified liquids on planes in carryons all this time (since 9/11).

The idea that British intelligence are attempting to distract US media attention from the results of a US Senate primary race is so bloody RIDICULOUS that I personally can't help but wonder if anyone espousing it is serious, and if so, whether they're utterly fucking mad, completely stupid, or just on really good drugs (if it's the last, where can I get some?).

are doing it here. Not the British.

the idea that the TIMING of this was contrived so as to provide convenient cover for a distraction by DHS and US news media is equally ludicrous. Comes to the same thing.

I make the claim the administration with use of the media here will further their messages of fear for political gain at a time when things weren't looking so good for them.

Spider Jerusalem admits he likes recreational drugs!

many too many times...

I don't understand why some people on DU don't believe that there are some supremely pissed off Muslims who want to retaliate for the actions of the US and Britain in the Middle East.

It would seem that they don't believe our foreign policy blunders would have consequences.

. . .are two VERY different things. No? I do believe there are some very upset people who want to do harm. I do not believe that these 21 people were necessarily capable of carrying out this retaliation.

The Professor

The shoe bomber came very close to doing just that. If the fuse in his shoe hadn't been wet, if his fellow passengers hadn't stopped him, there would be 250 dead people floating in the Atlantic.

What's so hard about smuggling explosive liquids in carryon bags and detonating them in an airplane? Other than the fact that you are also commiting suicide?

Its hardly rocket science

The "bomb" in the shoe bombers shoe could not be detonated by experts using actual detonators. It was not a bomb. It was a pretend explosive device.

And, detonating liquids is harder than you, apparently, think. First of all, liquids don't burn. The vapors above the liquid burn. And that doesn't happen until the lower explosion limit is reached, so the mixture of fuel and oxygen are at appropriate proportions.

That typically requires some degree of heat, to assure the evaporation of the liquid into the vapor state, which would mean these "devices" would have to contain a heating element. The energy would come from where?

Additionally, there are very few flammable liquids that can be made to actually detonate, rather than conflagrate. They total force involved, and the subsonic pressure wave would be insufficient to bring down a plane, unless they were smuggling gallons of the fluids onto the plane.

So, you see: There's far more science to it than you would suggest.

There are many more technical reasons why this plot is unlikely to be a real threat. But, i've given you a few of the more straightforward ones.
The Professor

In 1994, Yousef and Khalid Sheik Mohammed started testing airport security. Yousef booked a flight between Kai Tak International Airport in Hong Kong and Chiang Kai Shek International Airport near Taipei. Mohammed booked a flight between Ninoy Aquino International Airport near Manila and Kimpo International Airport near Seoul.

The two had already converted fourteen bottles of contact lens solution into bottles containing nitroglycerin, which was readily available in the Philippines. Yousef taped a metal rod to the arch of his of foot in place of the detonators. Yousef and Mohammed wore jewelry and clothing with metal to confuse airport security.

On December 11, 1994, Yousef built another bomb, which had one tenth of the power that his final bombs were planned to have, in the lavatory of the aircraft and left it inside the life jacket under his seat, 26K, after he got off the plane from a flight that arrived in Cebu. Yousef had boarded the flight under the assumed name of Armaldo Forlani, using a false Italian passport. The aircraft was Philippine Airlines Flight 434 using that aircraft on a Manila to Narita route. Yousef had set the timer for four hours after he got off the aircraft. The bomb exploded while the aircraft was over Minami Daito Island, near Okinawa, Japan. A Japanese businessman named Haruki Ikegami was killed after the bomb detonated. The Boeing 747-200 safely made an emergency landing in Naha, Okinawa. None of the aircraft's other 272 passengers or any members of the crew were killed, although 10 passengers in front of Ikegami were injured. Yousef then planned which flights to attack for Phase I.

Also, a nitroglycerin bomb the size of a contact lens solution bottle would have far more detonation volume than described here. So, i am skeptical (ok, cynical) that this is true.

And these guys were NOT supposed to be discussing nitroglycerin. They were discussing flammable liquids.

If you don't know the difference between detonating, supersonic and brissant, high explosives and flammable liquids, it isn't worth continuing this discussion.
The Professor

That sounds like fundamentalism to me, not science.

Some Muslims are supremely pissed off at the USA!

This is so obviously a marketing scheme for

SNAKES! ON A MUTHAFUCKIN' PLANE!

That got a little our of hand!

Am I the only one who isn't on Rove's payroll here today?

and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

five, six, sixteen years of listening to pure lies. It's best to attribute the rantings to total contempt for liars, thieves, killers, deceivers, bs'ers - who are our leaders.

We're living a pure 'cry wolf credibility crisis' povided by our PNAC rulers.

I haven't read everything, but I think we need to give some slack until more details are provided. For example, if they rev up the avian flu scare later this afternoon in combination with the easy mix bombs in a water bottle then we can lean one way. If we find out that anyone we believe to be credible says that this is genuine ... we can reassess.

When corporate tv gets this excited, we go into alert. When a top brass tells us to enjoy our flights minus our essetial carry-ons, we go into alert.

Someone has to rewrite the survival books that are out there, but eventually they'll be banned, also, if we don't get these killer clowns out of our high offices.

Is your vote safe?

Especially the "red alert" angle. But it's a big world, and it's not all black and white no matter where you stand politically. There are people in this world who unequivocally hate the Western way of life. On the flip side, the administration does use this to their advantage at every turn. But to deny the existence of this threat, or to chalk it up to "distraction" or to that omipotent boogeyman Karl Rove is preposterous, and lacks clear thinking.

Be prepared to be flamed for daring to comment on the ridiculous level of silly drama that permeates DU.It all revolves around us,don't you know.There is no such thing as Arab terrorists who would willingly blow up a couple of domestic airplanes for the sheer joy of it.There are no Arab bad guys,only westerners and Israelis are capable of such atrocities!Apparently,when the Republicans are in power,real terrorism ceases to exist.This site embarrasses me as a Democrat,and before any of you accuse those of us still in control of our mental facilities of being Freepers or worse,I say"Don't bother showing me the door,I'll find my own way out".

If the Rove-as-omnipotent-boogeyman crowd has the run of the joint with no level heads left, this place - this incredible resource - is screwed. Stick around and help keep the average IQ up a notch.

The Rove-as-omnipotent-boogeyman crowd is taking over DU!

extreme leftists are taking over the Democratic Party. I also learned from Bill O'Reilly that if we leave Iraq, oil prices will double. The other day I learned from Newt Gingrich that Lamont supporters are insurgents. After reading Ann Coulter's book, I learned that all liberals are Godless and they hate freedom.

I absolutely agree.

Which is why I despair when I see DUers so reflexively state things like "Rove's behind this" as fact. It's just as unsupportable, it's just as bullshit, and we're supposed to be the sane ones.

but I don't think it's such a far stretch to connect it with the Lamont victory. After all, Tony Snow so much as said yesterday that voting for Lamont was in essence surrendering to terror. The Republican spin machine was on hysterical levels yesterday. It was clear they were very rattled by the Lieberman loss. I'm not saying it is or it isn't connected, but to me it's not a totally batshit crazy idea.

They'll have you believing that 9/11 was orchestrated by Ned Lamont in order to create the conditions necessary for Bush to invade Iraq, knowing all along that Lieberman would kiss up to Bush, pissing off enough democrats that Ned could defeat him in the CT primary.

Oh, and I think Ned himself may have planted the thermite used to bring down WTC 1, 2 and 7.

Sid

Got a link to this illuminating thread? Sounds like a good read! :tinfoilhat:

but consistent with the reactionary, everything-is-a-conspiracy mindset that's on display down there.

Cheers

Sid

with a bunny cage, a shampoo bottle and one of those balsawood toy planes I intend to prove this is all just a hoax!

Thanks for the memories...:)

Sid

I saw that thread the first and only time I looked at the 9-11 forum.

within two weeks there will be web sites and videos claiming the dems mihop'd it all to embarass bush in his first year, used intelligence from clinton era to convince him saddam had wmd (gore and clinton believed it), all in hopes of winning back the presidency and congress - and of course, hillary led it all - and the diebold people really work for her and she will win in 2008, with her new congress in power in 2006, and she will rule the world.

Come to think of it, I might just start a website about all that...

People are REALLY crazy in the 9/11 forum!

:kick:

...can the ridiculous leap be made, to link this very serious terrorist plot with Ned Lamont winning the CT primary.

Pure childish bullshit.


it's just as bad as the bullshit in the Loose Change propaganda videos.

from today's TPM...

SO, FOR ALL our very real and legitimate worry about dirty bombs and gas attacks, planes really do seem like they remain our chief vulnerability. And it makes sense. Flying bombs. Thousands of them in the air over our major cities at any one time. As I've written before, I have next to no confidence that this administration won't pump exaggerated or bogus terror plots for short term political advantage. Especially as we move toward an election they seem likely to lose. But when the Brits completely shut down their major international airport (though now the shutdown seems to be easing) I'm quite ready to believe they found something very real. emphasis added

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/009383.php


There's more, basically let's wait and see what develops and of course Rove isn't above taking advantage of this...

Some conspiracies end up being real.

I did not, for example, imply that the US media wasn't blowng it out of proportion. It is. Ridiculously. And I did not imply that the media wasn't doing so because their overlords are looking for a Bush poll bump. I think that's plausible. My criticisms are leveled only at those those who're doing the wailing and gnashing of the teeth and rending their garments over the utterly preposterous notion that this a high-level US/UK hoax to get Lamont out of the news. Primarily because Lamont news would have been sharply reduced today anyway.

The Bush Administration did.

:popcorn:

by The Clash
http://www.sing365.com/music/Lyric.nsf/London-Calling-lyrics-The-Clash/94EEBE0A78C8DC9E482568AB00303277

Just because the Bush admin are evil scum that will use any means necessary to carry out their plans for never-ending war, it does not mean there are no jihadists trying to kill you.

on it's own but to make it into an international conspiracy to keep the CT DEM primary off the news based on NO PROOF is flaky.

Well put. Thank you.

:hide:

:rofl:

:loveya:

LOL! Thank HEAVENS for Britain. I'm sure without them no terrorists would ever be caught by our gang of idiots. And I do think there is a real threat, but who the hell knows if our government even actually even does more than talk? I want to know what our government did to actually stop this? Probably squat.