I am so blind with rage at this photograph:

An Israeli soldier, wearing an United States bandana, has camouflage make up applied to his face as troops gather along the Lebanon border preparing to enter southern Lebanon in northern Israel Thursday Aug. 10, 2006. Israel has put plans for a new ground offensive in Lebanon on hold to give a chance to cease-fire efforts, senior government officials said Thursday, a day after Israel's Security Cabinet approved a major expansion of the monthlong war. (AP Photo/David Guttenfelder)

American flag on his head!!!!!

However, I would go along with it being photoshopped. It seems way out of place on an Israeli soldier, as well as too clean for combat.

There are a lot of dual citizenship Americans that flew out for the war, though.

The row of stars on one end separate from the other set. Is there such a "bandanna" and how do Israelis wear such anyway? with a variety of design permitted? It is a good question to ask beofre pulling the rage lever. Is it a blue Israeli flag bandanna painted over as a statement?

http://cgi.omroep.nl/cgi-bin/streams?/tv/nos/journaal/sb.donderdag.1300.rm


Story is after they talk about terror thing 7:25 in

We have many here in the US who are just as deluded.

and doing absolutely NOTHING in support of a peaceful resolution to the conflicts in the Middle East.

bigger than it is.
The fact that the picture (photoshopped most likely) shows someone wearing a red, white, & blue bandana is irrelevant to what is your real issue. Keep the two separate.
(Do you object to flags being burned in protest? Pictures of flags being burned in protest? Doonesbury comics containing flags being burned in protest?)

It isn't the issue.

Besides, this is an AP photograph. Given recent events, yes it could in fact be photoshopped, but why? To increase Muslim anti-American sentiment? Because this is exactly what this photograph conjures up in my opinion.

or a design very, very similar to it. It is not just red, white, and blue. It has red and white stripes, and white stars on a blue field.

Look at the picture again if you do not believe me.

If it is an AP photo, then it had BETER not be photoshopped.

due to the images also coming out of Lebanon.

That he desecrated the Stars and Stripes, ok, it's a minor desecration, or the message of American support his sporting the bandanna conveys? Support which is wholly justified and warranted by the way.

I can't imagine how you'd react if you saw a picture of someone actually burning the flag.. :scared:

it's the fact that it exasperates the support the United States has of Israel.

like they got it over on ya.

In fact, they pull out strawmen arguments and don't want to debate the real issues, they just want to try to make people who they don't agree with look stupid.

phrased it different.

:toast:

"EXACERBATES"

Exasperation is what I feel when I hear many of my fellow DUers express the opinion that if everyone just made nice with the killers who are Hezbollah, the all would be just peachy-keen. After all, it isn't like any of YOUR relatives and their children who live near the Israeli-Lebanon border have been hiding in bunkers for years now while the mortars and rockets rain down on them. Now, it seems that the leaders of Hezbollah, who took such great pride in driving the Israelis out all those years ago...managed to bring them back with a vengeance. Now, the Lebanese are faced with the prospect of disarming the Hez, according to UN Resolution, or having the daylights bombed out of them. No sense just Israeli civilians getting killed, right? So I suppose that there may be a teensy-weensy bit of pressure on the Lebanese to do what they were supposed to do all those years ago.

That or have the Israelis pull back to a two square foot plot near what would have been Tel Aviv and all around them would be 'Buffer Zone'.

Then that two square feet would serve as the impetus for thousands to have to fight and die to 'reclaim' the land. That's what would happen...

Why put Americans in harms way? Support can be more subtle.

I don't think he's American, I think he's just wearing the bandanna.

Through yesterday: 711 dead in Lebanon. Only 58 were Hezbollah. Want your name on that? Do you want to own that and any consequence it might provoke?

Your connection is a soldier with a headband?

Give them a call, maybe you can ban them from wearing red, blue and white too.



I'll take that 58 number with a grain of salt. If these people got hit, I wonder on what list they'd appear:

[img src=""}

different nature from Lebanon, but I'm not going to play that game. That's not what the point is about. I'm not Israeli either. That means it shouldn't involve me but that's my damn flag.

This must incense you:



Who knows, maybe the Knesset right-wingers will ban flag-wearing for you...

The United States of America isn't supposed to be on the battlefield. Whatever point you're trying to make it's wrong. Unless, the soldier is American, they have no right to carry the symbol of my country into a field of battle. I especially don't want it carried into battle where the inhabitants of the country are getting creamed much more than the combatant in their country and whereby incensed radicals and terrorists might strike innocent Americans as their hatred swells.

Honestly, I didn't think anyone on this site was so flag-protective, especially so selectively. Groups who kidnap and kill people to start wars are fine to burn the flag, you just don't want a flag bandanna on any of them?

Is there someone in the Middle East who hasn't connected Israel and the US? Hezbollah has chanted 'death to America' at their rallies for years, and your concerned about 'swelling hatred'?

I'm trying to understand how these incensed radicals could have more hatred: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-HlaVpqUXF0

I'm not even talking about. When terrorists and radicals are only relegated to Hezbollah, you may start to have an arguing point. I'm thinking of people in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc. that might decide to do something about what they are seeing on their television screens such as killing some innocent Americans somewhere. What it comes down to, is not Israel itself, but putting the American flag on an operation that is enraging the populations of countries in the area and creating new enemies for us in the country of Lebanon. Not an obvious combatant or group that is well known to hate the US and Israel.

Are you an Israeli? Otherwise, I can't see how you miss that point. The US is a friend of Israel, not Israel itself.

So now, Pakistanis, Egyptians and Saudis may finally make a US/Israel connection and become enraged?

The Saudis already killed thousands of Americans on 9/11 citing Israel, Pakistanis were recently arrested for trying to blow up ten US planes, Hezbollah has already killed 100s of Americans...I can't imagine how they could be more angry.

But yeah, the bandana might upset someone.

knows of US support of Israel. Supporting a country doesn't always mean supporting any operation they engage in without limits (until now it seems). There is a thing called recruitment. In order to recruit people, terrorists use talking points. They are having a lot more talking points among people in their areas lately.

So I'm not naive. I don't support Israeli troops using American identifiers such as the flag when they go to fight. I don't support Pakistan using American identifiers when they fight in Kashmir. I don't support Brits using American identifiers if they were still going into Belfast. The country doesn't matter. What makes this worse is international terrorists that support Israel's enemies and worldwide concern over the current situation in Lebanon that encourages action on their part.

...but I can't imagine any headway being made.

There are groups that have recently slaughtered thousands of civilians, and you're concerned about motivating them.

How that makes any sense is beyond me.

Same goes for your contention that an individual soldier wearing a flag bandana is perceived as US support of whatever operation they're involved in.

Guess we should just leave it that way.

fairy tales make good bed-time stories.
Goodnight.

you don't refute it, you only negate it.

What do you think is going on in Lebanon? It's the same thing that would happen here...they're a very sophisticated group over there. I had many Lebanese professors in Dental School. They were worldly and brilliant, and understood that they were in the same position that the Italians were in for centuries after the Roman empire fell. They know what's best for them and that ain't a group of terrorist thugs who threaten their well-being. And guess what, it looks like things are changing rapidly.

Do you read history, or just hope that it goes your way?

They're just not changing in the way you hawks would like.

Israel is just throwing gasoline on the fire in Lebanon. America is just throwing gasoline on the fire in Iraq.

Get out your marshmallows.

It is possible for people to wish that Hezbollah be weakened without supporting Israel's destruction of Lebanon.

You, and people like you, such as Alan Dershowitz, cannot seem to separate the two, so let's try to create an analogy that could be applicable to the United States.

The KKK was a powerful entity in Mississippi, causing terror in the hearts of millions while killing and maiming thousands. By following Israel's current logic, the best way for us to have removed the threat of the KKK would have been to bomb Mississippi from one end to another, killing scores and scores of women and children.

Now, you may hate the KKK so much to be able to say, "Sure, that's exactly what we should have done." But a more reasoned, rational response would be to see that that kind of wanton destruction of innocent life would only make the KKK dig in harder. It would also create enormous sympathy for them and generate a lot of new recruits to the cause.

Now, my above comparison between the KKK and Hezbollah is not a precise analogy, but I hope you will forgive me that and simply hear the logic I'm trying to express to you.

Hamas is also pretty nasty in Palestine. Do you condone the wanton, absolute destruction of the Palestinian people?

And do you not see the supreme irony of anyone of the Jewish faith debating the merits of totally destroying a particular race in order to protect their own?

Can we no longer tell how much madness grips us in this most violent millenium?

I love analogies...many people here hate them, so I give you credit.

Here's one...let's take someone at random,,,say YOU, for example.

I assume you're a pillar of the community...involved in family matters, honest, loyal to your friends, hard-working, you know, generally do the right thing. You and your companions and family have a modest existence and when you go to sleep at night, you expect to awaken in the AM to the same circumstances in which you functioned the day before. (Now of course, that's where we completely fucked up Iraq, but that's a story for another day, since it seems that the deaths of Lebanese have taken center stage in the world for the past month...and understandably so, after all, it is th Jews who are killing them, whether by accident or deliberately and they must not be able to get away with that :sarcasm:...I know you get my drift...)

ANYWAYS, as my father of blessed memory used to say with a wink, your country starts bombing the shit out of...well, let's call in Bechuananaland, just for fun. Now you don't particularly like the Bechuanalandese so this does not really affect you terribly, except to wonder when it's just all going to stop so your tax dollars can go for important things...like bailing out billionaire frauds a la S&L'sand the like. But one day, you awaken to a nightmare...the Bechuanalandese have declared war on your country and they're dropping mortar shells and 500 pound bombs...rather, they're POUNDING you with all their might. But you didn't do anything right?

Now I'm with you...you didn't declare war on these people, you happened to be living in the country which did. Can you blame the Bechuanalandese for doing this? I think not.

You see my friend, the real tragedy of war is not the deaths and dismemberments of the soldiers, it is the deaths of the citizenry which brings a country or movement to its knees. Israel realized that and fought a real war, not the pinpoint, surgical campaign which they were supposed to be famous for. As someone here pointed out, 1967 was the last war that they really won, since in 73 they made an almost fatal mistake....but that's a discussion for another day as well, since on mistake for Israel is fatal...five mistakes for Syria and the same guy's family is still in the Royal Palace. Israel galvanized the world community against them, they knew they eould, but this community also realized that the threat was Hezbollah and will take the appropriate steps to neutralize them.

I hate war...I despise it - but you attack my family, and I'll go batshit on you. 'Simplistic', but it works.

If Israel had wanted to really destroy Beirut and kill millions of Lebanese, they would have done so. This is just enough to get people off their asses to implement your blessed UN's Resolution to disarm Hezbollah.

And believe me, it the PAlestinians had the firepower which the Israelies do, and the latter were livingin the GazaStrip, they'd have been annihilated al very long time ago. It would have been Warsaw Ghetto II. But I know how people hate it when the Holocaust is brought up so forget I said anything about it, since it didn't really happen and even if it did, it doesn't really matter. :sarcasm:

some can hardly see it

and belligerent.

American military), but burning it is NOT (in fact, it's the only way to dispose of worn and tattered flags).

Two-cents.

because he is American.

We hear when Canadians and Brazilians and others are killed in Lebanon, mostly dual citizens or naturalized in their countries of immigration.

Even when there's an obviously French or English-language name, Israelis are just Israelis. But they're a nation of immigrants.

a member of the Israeli military.

Doesn't matter if he's a citizen of the United States. The difference is to which army's allegiance he swore.

and festoon their tanks with them?

After all, it's only polite to acknowledge one's sponser.

And if anyone thinks America is not sponsering this little war,
just take a peek at the enormous "loans" America is forever
giving Israel, and never asking to be repaid.

Regardless of what the troops wear, the Lebanese know who to blame.

This is getting worse by the second.

...is that the problem?

that U.S. troops are participating in.

I was thinking the same thing.

Anyone remember Rachel Corrie?

I didn't see Rachel Corrie as another nation's soldier carrying an American flag into battle.

Everybody's trying to make a whole different point based on their own leanings and radicalism when the point is a soldier from another country engaged in a battle with all the carnage a war entails does so with an American flag. How does anybody think an Israeli might feel if in the Vietnam war, American soldiers carried Israeli flags?

I mean, is there a law against this? Looks like honesty in advertising to me.

I've beem wiping my ass with their flag all day.. :)

As a veteran this pisses me off, hey Israeli guy, get MY fucking flag off YOUR head when you go on a murderous rampage.. I'm outraged as well.

What gives this shithead the right to kill innocent people, and in my opinion MOST of the people being killed these days are innocent, while wearing another country's flag?

Maybe they got a big shipment of flags with the last Bomb order and are using them for sweat rags now.. the defense industry could be wrapping the bombs in flags as packing material for all they fucking care.

I agree, it IS an outrage. There is supposed to be some way to tell which "team" someone is on, and these killers sure do not represent ME. I nearly DIED for that flag, and as such I have the right to Burn it if I wanted to, free speech and all, but I didn't join the military to protect this little shit's life.

Sorry if I offended anyone with my rant, but goddamn it, it's about time we tossed all the PC bullshit out the window and identify problems that need to be solved.

then that has to be about the dumbest soldier in the history of warfare. I think a big red bullseye might make a slightly easier target for a sniper. Maybe.

if he was not wearing a HELMET over it when he went into battle.
Personally it does not bother me. He could be American, dual-citizen.. whatever, I am not going to judge someone who could very well be dead by now. The guy was probably pretty damned scared at that particluar moment, why should anyone here begrudge him a simple gesture which might give him some comfort?
Geez...

Its just a fucking bandana with the imprint of our flag. Maybe the guy likes America. Maybe he hates America. (Both motivations could be possible.) Maybe its a new Israeli fashion statement. The notion that one Israeli soldier wearing a U.S. flag look-alike bandana will get Americans killed is, perhaps, a little extreme.

"Blind with rage"? Get a grip.

it impacts Americans whether it be image or increasingly a terrorist target.

Or maybe one or both of his parents is American. I really don't understand why people get so bent out of shape about flags. :shrug:

eom

:puke:

armor is amerikan or bought with amerikan $$. So what's the difference if he uses a red white and blue dew-rag?

My reaction was more along the lines of mild disgust. There are so many pictures that really do make me furious or heartsick, but they don't involve the use or misuse of a scrap of cloth.

And with a name like Earth First, what's with the nationalism?

:wtf:

if he did, he might take off the bandana. wouldn't want to be another "accident" donchaknow.

:eyes: