I Really Need to Make an Announcement

First... Good Morning DU!

Ok...

Now... there is noooo such thing as "Islamo-Fascism", ok? It's a made-up right wing term. The real fascists are the GOP. Thank you...

Have a good day everybody.

Peace.

it is not the last word on truth and accuracy

offensive and historically inaccurate.

...and g'morning! :hi:

Got yer first R
and :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

think he meant fundamentalist, agreed GOP are the fascists.

powerful clerics who are not interested in the people having power and making democratic choices about their society, and who are deeply opposed to not only the US, but also secular, socialist governments in majority-Islamic nations (like Egypt) -- what would you call that?

There is a difference. Results can be similar, but there is a difference.

Fascism is when the corporate entities are the dictators. They are hiding behind and using the theocrats in the 'western nations'. The Islamic theocrats are fighting them, and therein lies the problem for the whole world. Everyone is fighting, everyone is wearing a label, many labels are just camouflage.

By your definition Genghis Khan, Napoleon, Stalin, Alexander the Great, and all other expansionist autocrats in history were fascists. The term loses all specificity. You can rape our language all you want, but it still won't make me believe we are fighting World War II part 2.

how would you define a political movement that is anti-socialist, anti-secular, which wants to concentrate power in the hands of a few, such as the Taliban?

similar to the Bush administration. Is that what you're driving at?

If you use the term "Islamo-fascist," you are playing into their filthy hands... end of story. It is simply a meme intended to drum up popular support for World War III.

You don't see the similarity between a bunch of wealthy Saudis who derive their wealth from oil, construction and the desire to control entire governments undemocratically, and who reject socialism because they fear that power spread broadly among the people might result in policy that undermines their ability to concentrate wealth and power, and a bunch of Americans who have the same sources of wealth and political desires?

I agree that neoliberals in the Bush administration calling Al Qaeda "fascists" makes it seem like the Bush administration is a bunch of freedom-fighting anti-fascists. However, pretending that Al Qaeda is a liberation movement doesn't make the Bush administration fascists.

and I would advise you to look up the definition of fascism. A square will not fit into that round hole unless it's small enough.... such vague descriptions can probably fit into any term.

that's not to say they haven't successfully started an Islamic movement with true believers in that myth.

ooga booga!

dp

Now... there noooo such thing as "President George W. Bush", it's a bad right wing nightmare. WAKE UP!!!! :)

Agree with you on the stupid Islamofascism thing, though... worries me. First they came for the language...

It is totally unreal that GW calls the terrorists fascists, he is such a fool. Everyone knows the neo-cons are the fascist nazis although they try to label their political opponents as such. GW has an IQ of 1 pound of dog shit!

has more activity.

But Good Morning yourself. :hi:

that's the label I'm trying to paint them with!

It appears to have come from FRetard City; they've been moaning and bitching about Islamofascists forever. Like they disapprove of fascism or something. I remember one guy, probably a closet lib, asked them to define the term and they couldn't. He cut and pasted some dictionary definitions and they got all puzzled and started hooting and grooming and picking fleas off each other and looking very, very nervous. Then the thread died.

The term is total nonsense. I guess it COULD be applied to the government of Iran, but it's a stretch. Applying it to terrorists is just nonsense. It's much like their long-ago attempt to convince themselves that Hitler was a lefty, because the word Socialist was in the NAZI Party name. No matter how you try to explain that national socialism is a far different concept than socialism (it's the basic military-industrial complex, with the addition of political conspiracy), they were incapable of understanding.

It's sorta like when East Germany used to call itself the Democratic Republic of Germany.

They're trying to change the implication of the word fascism so that people associate it with religion instead of corporate power. It's pure simple distraction, "hey, look at them instead of at us."

You and I both, know of its origin.

on television, as often as it's now being thrown around. You would think that responsible journalists would explain the term at some point.

But then they'd have to point out that they've been misusing it. :grr:

like they always do... or that they are sensationalizing info for better ratings.... riiiight.

Either way, it's dangerous and irresponsible. We are talking about life and death and these assholes claim their number one priority is business.

But that would shine unwanted light on our own Religious Totalitarians. And, hey, it just doesn't roll of your tongue.

Islamists do not advocate corporatism, an important component of "classic" fascist governments in Italy and Germany. However, the Islamist idea of Ummah has been compared to the German fascist idea of Volksgemeinschaft.

Which to me is the key. Traditional Fascism is a melding of corporation and state.

If we are assigning names based on loose association, why don't we start calling the GOP 'CorPedophiles'. They want to implement the father-child model of governance, centered around the corporation. Yet they cannot resist buggering the children (proles).

among the groups debating the Middle East. Pro-Israel people pointed out the investigations into the origins of various Arab organizations set up against the Jews by Germans trying to specifically hurt the British and of course their favorite scapegoats. It branched out in that heated debate to include the whole ME poison against Israel. Just as significantly though, the ties between the Jewish right and the Western hard right crazies also created a Israeli-fascist meme that HAS been used against them as well by Arabs. Also in the mix are Bushistas with historic ties to activities more than sympathetic to the Nazis/ American fascists is also a popular ME term used more enthusiastically than back here in the US of A.

In this mess of strangely appropriate name calling from competing sides one indeed may pull back the reins and say that the Limbaugh style "feminazi" cutie is a real whopper in the ME. As a general term it is no more, probably less appropriate to pin the label on extremist Arab groups than on the Arab governments, the Israeli government, the US government(GOP), the propaganda, the business interests, the religious zealots(Christians included) who want universal war.

Besides arguing the particular point, it is simply not fair, and in a real world of information should backfire with spectacular blow-back.

A philosophy or system of government that is marked by stringent social and economic control, a strong, centralized government usually headed by a dictator.

Since when is Islam -- even fundamentalist Islam -- a system of government?

Bush: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Terrorists: No, no, no, no, yes, no, no, yes, no, no, no, no, yes, no.

Fascist? Bush yes, Islamacists no.


By Dr. Lawrence Britt
Source Free Inquiry.co
5-28-3


Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread
domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

I heard/saw using it.. I was just after his foray into "outsourcing america" and just before he wandered back into his usual xenophobic "illegal" bashing.

I think the GOP's use of Islamo-Fascism is a projection of the right wing goopers internal fascist tendencies AND an attempt to neutralize their (the right wing) from being openly called fascist.

Not just in this country.

And there are people who get off on the power to tell others what to do.

The same forces which operate here- fear, trumped up nationalism, jingoistic flag waving, tribalism, xenophobia... operate in other places too-- And folks there capitalize on 'em just like our people do. They have their own "right wingers", their own yahoos, their own gangs excessively, obsessively, concerned with running other people's lives. Those forces are not any more endemic to only our society than we are immune from them.

Sorry. There are fascists of all kinds. There are right-wing fascists, corporate fascists, anti-drug fascists, even self-proclaimed "progressive" fascists who think, for instance, that consenting adult porn is a greater threat to human safety than gun-toting revolutionaries.

There are Christian fascists and there most certainly are Islamic fascists, too.