Who's seen "World Trade Center," and...

...what'd ya think?

Personally, contrary to all the objections I've read here at DU, I don't see any pro-Bush politics here, no undue jingoism regarding the events of 9/11. Quite the contrary, I thought it was almost completely apolitical, and whatever (very) subtle politics there were inhered in the material. Think about it, the official emergency responders were not particularly effective before the collapses -- understandable given the enormity of the situation and the communications problems resulting from PD-FD antagonism and a failure of coordination -- and it was an ex-Marine and an unemployed former paramedic with a history of drug/alcohol problems who ultimately took it upon themselves to search the rubble, ultimately finding McLoughlin and Jimeno.

What seems to appeal to the RW pundits who've showered plaudits on the film is that it is about heroic individuals, something that virtually the entire political spectrum can appreciate; it's just a story of people surviving, and acting heroically, just because it is the right thing to do, in extraordinary circumstances. It is, in short, one of the few things on which Americans can feel united.

type of films because it reminds people that we were attacked and stirs the politics of fear and hatred, which they have a lock on. They also feel they are better in the polls with national security. I have heard similar reviews that it's not like the other films like Flight 93 which was basically adminstration propaganda.

wasn't propaganda either. Both films seem to treat the subject w/dignity & fairness.

loved when leaving. I live in a red state.

& I'm a bleeding-heart liberal. Some things transcend political divisions.

..from what I could tell, there is no left or rightwing agenda to it.

In other words, you don't walk out of the movie with any different feelings in regards to your own POLITICS as when you walked in.

No difference. :shrug:

United 93 was definitely propaganda

trying to find the President and VP that day. It showed the poor schmucks in ATC and NORAD's Eastern U.S. frantically trying to understand what the hell was happening and to respond but the PTB were nowhere to be found. It mentioned the wargaming that was going on.

I think they tried to stay apolitical and they tried to show what the passengers were going through without making them Hollywood heroes but merely how a bunch of strangers got together in a short period of time and tried to counter the terrorists.

I appreciated that the filmmakers didn't muddy it up with the sentimental phone calls like the A&E version did.

I'm going to see WTC tonight and judge it for myself.

Not because it was too soon or too tough to watch but it was a piece of shit movie, imo.


Just the way it was made. Awful film making. The script didn't allow you to connect with any of the passengers at all. Wasn't that the point? To experience, through the characters eyes, what they went through on that fateful day?

That's why I liked it - it was like a documentary. You did experience it through the character's eyes & you only saw what they saw & knew what they knew. When you travel, do you generally get to know all the passengers on the plane? No. It's the same way here. They were a collection of strangers, scared to death, unable to know what was going on or why, but able to respond heroically anyway to the worst circumstances. I was worried it'd be all sentimentalized & exploitative. Like making it into an action movie, w/Beamer pausing to shout "let's roll!" as the music swells. But it wasn't like that. It didn't need to be sentimentalized. The real events are powerful enough.

the movie wasn't powerful at all, imo.

Despite knowing all too well about what happened on that day...when a movie is made about it, I only take what was given to me on screen.
There was no character development at all. Why should I invest two hours and care about these characters when the film maker didn't allow me to feel for them.

The best part was when the plane crashed. Then I got to go home.

That may sound harsh but it was a movie and the film makers failed, imo, to get me emotionally involved in the movie. That should've have been the easier part b/c that day was very emotional.

But the movie did get rave reviews from most critics. I get your point, but this isn't fiction & it isn't something that can be over-emotionalized. These were real people w/real families, & an event that's still causing great debate about exactly what happened or who was responsible. The filmakers had to be very careful in how they portrayed the passengers & the events, and I think a fact-based approach was probably the best way to go right now.

portrayed the people in a good light. There was no dignity in that movie, imo.

It would be undignified to make people into some sort of stereotype action character or subvert the day for some particular point of view. The movie lets you decide who they were & why they acted.

to be exploited in this way.
Let the dead rest in peace.

albeit without seeing it (and I wont), is that by being apolitical, its actually condoning everything that came afterwards. Convoluted, I know, but that is my initial gut feeling. Also, by being completely apolitical, isnt it merely a way to capitalize off of 911? Which I am 100% against. No one but the Repugs should be able to make money off of 911. :sarcasm:

Accepting of the official version of events, but we already know that Norad was lying. What else may change?

on TV, so I don't really feel like seeing a recreation of the event on the big screen. In my opinion, it's still too soon to be making entertainment out of 9-11.

But it's good to know the movie is politically neutral.

a portion of the proceeds, IMO.

I heard 10 percent of the first five days grosses. It opened on Wed. so Wed-Sun covers that five-day period.

...the crashes or the collapses.

Liked it. I agree with you- it is not political at all. I also don't think it made me feel very patriotic. It was a story about survival- they barely even touched on the terrorism aspect at all.

It is clearly NOT right hand propaganda.


The story is about the 2 men- NOT about the day itself, why it happened, who did it etc.


Edited to add: The only thing I really didn't like about the movie was the cheesy jesus w/ the water bottle scene. Unnecessary and awkward IMHO

...but perhaps that's what Jimeno was experiencing when he was down there. I would guess that Stone talked extensively with them to get an idea what was in their heads in that hellhole. Think about it: people tend to think in reference to pop culture (consider the Starsky and Hutch theme song), and religious cliches in extremis. In that situation, I might well be thinking of Jesus, too -- I know I'd be thinking of water.

from the second I opened my eyes

one notable thing that i have heard brought up is that (apparently) stone chose to leave out any scenes of the street celebrations that occurred after 9/11

whether that was intentional or not, is of course the question, but he did show scenes of world reaction, just not those scenes

i've read a # of reviews, and the reviewers (both right and leftwing) seem pretty positive, and also do note that its a "uniter not a divider" film

:)
http://www.villagevoice.com/film/0632,hoberman,74110,20.html
here is the village voice take on it

"Stone has dutifully repeated his studio-given mantra that World Trade Center is "not a political movie." (As if that were possible: Even the musical cues suggest the mawkish piano doodling that's been a campaign ad staple since Reagan ran for re-election.) But once Stone uncorks a virtual crane shot up from the pile to a communications satellite and then the Whole World Watching, a context unavoidably appears. The first responder is a heroic George Bush, followed by a Sheboygan police officer excoriating the "bastards," and then another guy exclaiming, "This country's at war!" Somewhere in Connecticut, an ex-Marine who likes to be called Staff Sergeant (Michael Shannon) gets the heavenly call and marches to the rescue: "God made a curtain with the smoke to shield us from what we're not yet ready to see," he says as he approaches the pile.

What hath Oliver wrought? For the hard right, Stone is the most hated "Hollywood liberal" post–Jane Fonda and pre–Michael Moore. But World Trade Center is Stone's rehabilitation. It's not just courage that's honored, it's God's Will. It isn't only men who are saved, it's their families—and their family values. Raised from the dead, John pays Donna the ultimate tribute: "You kept me alive." "

Children were given candy to look as though they were happy.

I'm sure some people celebrated America's finally understanding what it's like to live with terrorism, but I don't think it was widespread.

i have seen video of this occurring.

were those faked?

widespread is of course a subjective term. so, i'm not sure what qualifies as "widespread"

obviously, on a relative basis, it was more widespread in the gaza strip, then it was in des moines iowa (sarcasm)

You could take any archival footage of Arabs -- or any swarthy folk -- celebrating something, claim that it was about 9/11, and completely demonize them. Sound familiar? Or do you think the MSM, as a tool of the admin., is too ethical to do any such thing?

the earth is flat, too. really. there's a website (more than one) that claims that

you can find something to read, to support whatever petty prejudice, wacked-out conspiracy theory, etc. that you choose to believe, based on whatever ideological grudge you hold

where's the evidence?

it clearly passes the smell test. we know that lots of people hate us viscerally

heck, rachel corrie was famously filmed burning a US flag among frenzied crowd of palestinians cheering her on

but it's not believable that these same people (who it is repeatedly claimed - truthfully) DO hate us, would dare to dance in the streets in celebration of americans murdered?

oh, no. that would never happen. we're just trying to demonize people

no, people who would murder and riot over cartoons, murder a film director over a perceived slight to their religion, put out a contract on salman rushdie, strap bombs on children's chests, blow up kids in discos, etc. would never celebrate american deaths by dancing.

frankly, the idea that NOBODY in the ME would dance to celebrate murdered americans would be hard to believe

but EVERYTHING that could possibly make terrorists and their sympathizers look bad is obviously an MSM plot to demonize them

lol

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

That is complicit (and supportive) of their being manipulated, invaded, exploited, occupied, and sometimes tortured, murdered, raped and burned.

The CNN footage was replayed from some completely unrelated event when there were people dancing in the streets for some other reason entirely.

1. They show footage of Bush saying that "they will be caught."

2. They tell us that the marine that helped with the rescue was going to "avenge this." At the end of the movie, they tell us that that marine has served two tours in Iraq.

and found it very neutral.

Echoing what others have said, it is about McLoughlin and Jimeno essentially and I found it to be a well done flick.

I had my doubts about Nic Cage being in it because I thought they should have put no names in there like United 93 did, but all in all I think he pulled it off.











***Slight Spolier Alert***



I found the scenes of them trapped in the rubble to be horrifying and felt claustrophobic when the camera was down with them and relieved when it reverted back to the outside world...very effective filmmaking.

..."Fuck George W.," also:



not to mention Murphy, Lucky, and Buddy. They're no Repukes, either!

and all dogs for that matter!

Nice pic!