How much longer will travelers put up with this bullshit?

Why should Grandma have to throw away her lipstick and Grandpa throw away his pills he put in an unmarked bottle? Everybody is a suspect? Why? Are they Pakistanis? No?

It's becoming obvious that these people are more incompetent than the Keystone Kops. The liquids they were drinking or carrying may have been explosives or they could explode when they were mixed with other liquids or compounds? So what do they do ? They have everyone pour their liquids into one trash can??? !!!

And they wait in line for hours. It's unneeded. Every American is a suspect is unacceptable and it's just a matter of time until they narrow their hunt...If you're loooking for Pakistanis, quit pretending that everyone is a Pakistani and do your job.

I can tell you ome thing, I did two weeks ago for a funeral and with the present bulsshit I think I will take a buss thank you, or fly to taht location from OUSIDE the US.

Some people have to fly for their jobs. I could just see asking my boss if I can take the QE2 to England instead of a cheapie Virgin air flight.

I don't need to PAY to be treated like a criminal. I can be treated that way for free.:)

Just stop flying! :eyes:

Some of us have to fly to go see family that lives far away. I have no other choice except to stop seeing my relatives.

For those of us who aren't required to fly in such manner, it IS a brilliant solution. No need to get sarcastic.

just sound silly. Of course there are people that don't need to fly. Don't! I wouldn't either if I didn't have to! But a lot of us do. This reminds me of the poster who pointed out that private planes do not require all the security that is going on with commercial planes now. As if flying on private planes is a real choice for most of us. The reality is that many of us still need to fly.... and on commercial lines. These overly simplistic solutions can be annoying and help no one.

I had just awakened and I had to go to work this morning. I was feeling just a bit snarky.

:hi:

I've flown maybe once a year, at most.

Now, not al all. It was untolerable before. It is now unacceptable, IMO.

Pay top dollar to be treated like shi*? I don't think so. :grr:

getting blown out of the sky should settle for everyone else not turned off by security measures that didn't work.

Would genoicdal annihilation of all sources of terrorism restore confidence?

The Israelis accept more stringent security measures for being directly in the terror zone. When all the consumers are in this stage of siege they will accept air flights that are ruled by this level of safety.
Will the airplanes themselves be safe? Alas, that salient issue unaddressed that causes more airline deaths than terrorism is still lost in a fog.

El Al does stringent security , not STUPID moma device securith

And we will all become like Israel including eternal vulvenrability if we become a global Israeli style state- minus the brains and residual democracy. That's too much for a big organization to handle.

and that will further sink the already sick airline industry.

how long will the business travelers put up with this? I foresee these restrictions getting worse, not better. It's really only a matter of time before the UK restrictions are imposed in the US. Then let's see what the business community does when they're banned from taking laptops, cell phones, etc. on board.

And lipstick...can we presume that the flight attendants will also have to follow this restriction? Yeah, right...

care of alot of business. Dh flies to Denver a several times a year for face-to-face meetings. Most of his other monthly flying also involves "meetings" and very few site visits.

His blackberry and laptop must travel with him.

And it's costing sales. Bush is biting the hand that feeds him with this one.

I mean, it's so much easier to just shut up, and submit to EVERYTHING they say, in the name of keeping us safe from terrorism.

Don't make us Democrats look all bad and uppity with your little smart-alecky remarks about "tin foil hatters." You talker, you. You commie pinko red-o liberal jew antisemite atheist who will probably vote for Ned Lamont because he's the AlQaida nominee.

her family just returned from Japan after 4 years. I cannot wait to see them (I did visit them in Japan, however).

But with this airline BS I wish I was driving. (Kansas City to Virginia)...long trip...for grandma. So I'll just suck it up and read my book (if they let me take it on board).... I think I'll take something Policital..LOL

Fear causes them to lose their reasoning power.

Were drinks ever allowed to be brought on board a plane? Or did they allow it after taking away meals? It has been a while since I flown on an airline (1995-6?) and don't know the answer.

Those with pills especially with a lot of medication shouldn't be forced to keep them in their original containers. Travelers want to travel with as little baggage as possible. And medication in many cases are vital to their health and absolutely critical that it be with them so they don't get lost during baggage handling by the airline.

I would be protesting losing $10 or more because I was forced by some jackass to dispose of it. I would tell them to shove it and refund my flight and just stay home or find another way to travel.



They might as well declare anything could be use as a weapon and not be allowed on board.
Belts, high heels, cell phones, watches, glasses, the airlines own fold down tray, who knows what else.

We need to sue DHS for lost $$$ for the things we've had to throw away. We need to sue them for lost time spent in security lines (and at business billable rates!).

I'm serious. Any attorneys out there?

pictures, that they were just falling in line like a herd of holsteins going to the barn to be milked. Personally, I quit flying May of 2002 after the infamous shoe bomber surfaced. One trip--ended my travel by air. I will not subject myself to this insanity.

but are you suggesting that only Pakistanis and other "swarthy" suspicious types be singled out for prejudicial treatment? Isn't that the aviation equivalent of Driving While Black?

Over the past five years, we've had examples of passengers of Middle Eastern persuasion being kicked off planes or otherwise treated horribly simply because people "didn't feel comfortable" about the color of their skin or Sikh turbans. Isn't this racial profiling? Isn't this type of racism abhored by DUers?

Sure, the way it's being carried out now is reminiscent of the Keystone Kops, but who or what decides who's suspect? That's a slippery slope.

Who are the suspects? However, for every Pakistani, they could pull a Caucasian or black out of the line to balance the equation for the overly political correct.

and not even for the sake of safety, but because you as a white person feel inconvenienced. I suppose you're another one who believes that "everything changed after 9/11" and is freaking out, willing to suspend the civil rights of brown people.

Forbidding passengers from taking water bottles onto a plane is not a violation of civil liberties, but prohibiting one racial or ethnic group from doing so is a violation. And I'm not being "overly political correct" -- it's called being against racism.

Racism? :crazy: Who is more likely to be an Islamist, Achmed from Saudi Arabia or Aunt Mildred?

The goddamn british/pakistani's that they raided and arrested, and their buddies. This was supposedly a specific plot with details about how it was to go down. It shouldn't be hard to search people who have recently been to Pakistan, and or know or made contact with the people they were supposedly monitoring, who are headed to the US on international flights.

Unless they have evidence there were people in the US in on the plot, there is no reason for them to make everybody dump all their cosmetics, drinks, etc in the trash.

have a few thousand people just cancel or better yet sit down...say enough is enough and watch how fast the whole house of cards fold.

They do WHAT they do because we LET them.

To taking off our shoes?

And a stolen election in 2004 was a piece of cake after the first one.

some human beings on airplanes want to blow up other human beings that never hurt them and whom they have never met.

And by the way, don't you think it's strange that radical islam fundamentalism has been around since the beginning of aircraft and yet there have been VERY FEW attacks on Americans until now. Why all of a sudden?

read Sayid Qutb, founder of the Muslim Brotherhood. He is hugely popular, and has been for 45 years, in the Middle East.

And thats like asking: 'The Jews were around for a long time, and there had been no pogroms against them in Germany for centuries; so why did the some Germans suddenly slaughter them in the mid 20th centrury?'

The form of your question implies that somehow the victims are responsible for the violent, insane, fanatical ideologies of their murderers.

If someone wants to blow up a plane, and is willing to die for it, they will find a way. As for these new restrictions, what a bunch of b.s. No carry on?

Ever try to entertain a baby with no carry on? What about diapers? wipes? pacifiers? fresh clothes for the inevitable throw up/poop explosions?

What about toddlers? Wanna take a long flight next to someone with a toddler and NO BOOKS OR TOYS? And no snacks for them either? And before you tell me, the airline will hand out peanuts, I'll tell you we have major food allergies and are not going to eat what the airline gives us.

Can't carry any liquids on board? Hell, I could hide a flask in my clothes, even in my bra and nobody would find it. Or in my socks, or boots. It'll be even easier in the winter when I'm wearing bulkier clothes. Same goes for anyone, I imagine. If you really wanted to get creative, you could rig up a special toupee for carrying liquid shampoo (or WHATEVER).

Or are they going to frisk us now? Even so, there are ways to get around it, and not everyone will be "caught".

When I travel, it's just me and my young daughter. It's hell, with no help. Adding 2 more hours to our time in the airport is ridiculous, just adding to the misery.

Now... all this wouldn't be ridiculous if it actually helped, right? I understand special situations. But this is NOT that. This is total b.s.

They don't inspect all the bags, they don't do basic checks, they don't even handle the walk-on security like THEY SHOULD.

These new restrictions are only there to MAKE US BELIEVE IT'S ALL REAL and scary.

planes they will. Hell this liquid explosive was successfully used to bomb a movie theater and a plane in the mid-90's as a test of the Bojinka plot. So the damn HS and TSA knew it was possible - so why wasn't liquids banned after 9-11?

If a terrorist wants to get liquid explosive aboard they'll strap it to their bodies which is how I suspect the 9-11 terrorists got edged weapons aboard - remember the ones in DC who got wanded but allowed through any way?

As I mentioned in another thread they could even hide it in a body cavity.

And failing that back to Plan B and blow a plane up with explosives in checked baggage ala PanAm 103.

This is BS. Intelligence broke this plot not airport security. Making 99.99999% throw away their toiletries and drinks to perhaps prevent a possible terrorist is lunacy!

If you had good security people in TSA and at the gates I'd bet they could pick out the few passengers very easily who deserve extra scrutiny. And if it's profiling I say so be it.

i've been frisked many, many times

if i thought i could stick my special skin cream and a flash of gin down my hooters, i wouldn't be so perturbed

but they are searching people twice to make sure that no one will have adequate water or cream on board -- even tho every medical advisor from dr. weil on down to your own gp tells you that you must bring water, etc. on board because the cabin is dangerously dry

flight attendants canNOT be expected to be at your beck and call, they are NOT allowed to provide beverage service during turbulence -- on a "bad" flight it's not impossible that someone could be put in serious danger, esp. after they've already been in security line for 3 hours before even boarding the plane

i hate to be put in the position of hoping some fragile traveler hurries up and dies of dehydration so that we can all see who the real terrorist is but it's going to happen and better it happens sooner so it won't be buried on the back end of the news cycle

the investigators did their job, these plotters didn't even have their tickets yet, they were caught and arrested, what then was the point of stealing people's water?

these restrictions are cruel, stupid, wrong, and hurtful to people's health and business

every passenger now? Or do you have rotten luck? I agree with all of your points. I know what you mean by fragile passengers - and sooner or later that will happen.

Seriously - though - how do they prevent you from taking *any* carryon? Where are you supposed to store your id? Your boarding passes? Your money? And what about babies & diapers, etc. Are they not allowing diaper bags either? I would think not bcs you can practically hide elephants in there they are so big. I heard they are allowing baby bottles with formula. So does the mom hold the baby with one arm and the formula, id, boarding passes and money in the other hand?

And what about carseats? Are they allowed now?

and no they don't frisk every pax unless it's a FRA or NBO where if you travel there they DO so be prepared, don't freak, it is not personal

it's my profile which i won't bore you w. but i would frisk me a lot too -- heh heh keeping in mind tho that everybody at FRA or NBO gets frisked -- but i just have a profile that they need to frisk

i'm not mad about it, i know where i've traveled and my lifestyle, i'm okay w. it -- it is a coincidence but i have visited many money laundering capitals so it's understandable that i'm gonna get checked -- prob. not gonna affect the main stream person

as far as u.k. how do they prevent you from taking *any* carry-on it's pretty simple, don't comply, don't fly, you are supposed to be able to get your passport, money, credit cards in a pocket sized ziplock which they'll supply if you don't have, all else must be checked


i strongly object to this policy, hey, check me all day long, but don't steal my face cream, once you've determined i'm mostly harmless, i should be allowed to bring my personal crap w. me, why would i wait all these years and beers and transatlantic crossings to blow up a plane? if i wanted to be famous, guess what, i could have been a child star while i was still a child



there are exceptions for baby but carseats, you're gonna have to call the airline because right now i'm not current on it, they were okay a thousand years ago in 2004 but they keep moving the damn goalposts

to fucking Israel.
Come to think of it, all that police state bullshit there hasn't really stopped terrorists, has it?

searched and my person patted down. Nothing like having a stranger run their hands between your breasts in front of a line of people. That was it for me. I would only fly now in a real, dire emergency, and since my family lives close I can't imagine what that would be.

BTW, when my bags were pawed through the "inspector" missed THE TRIPOD in the bag. He found my pretty little panties from Victoria's Secret and removed them one by one but MISSED A TRIPOD. It could have been a pipe bomb in my bag and he would never have found it. I knew then and there that this was a bunch of bullshit.

and your'e right - it's all dog & pony show

Charlotte NC to San Jose on Tuesday night when your manager figures out Monday at noon you need to attend a business meeting on Wednesday morning?

I wish, I could cancel this flight. My daughter is getting married and since, I am her Mother, I have to be there. If I knew this shit was going to happened, I would had taken AMTRAK to east coast. I booked my flight back in March to get cheaper flight.

This whole TERROR shit smells real bad and I will NOT buy into it. When have BUSH ever told the truth? I am sick and tired of it. I was at the doctor's office this afternoon and in the waiting room (there were 8 people waiting), and people were all talking about this shit. And you know what, they ALL said... This is another scary tactic coming from BUSH and they will NOT be voting for REPUBLICANS!!! Three men also stated, they are republican and they have no planning on voting for the republicans period!
All I gotta say is, KEEP IT UP BUSH AND THE CORPORATE WHORES!!!

Thing is, I was listening to the local news on the radio yesterday, and they were interviewing some people at SeaTac Airport. And almost every one of them said that there were willing to put up with the new "security guidelines" if it made us safer. People, people, people, use your brains, please! How is keeping bottles of water off a plane going to keep us safer? How is keeping food passengers might want to bring on board going to stop a terrorist? These new "guidelines" piss me off, but the people who will follow them like sheep, and not even question anything, REALLY piss me off.

That they didn't give any "air time" to all of the people that said taking their water, diapers, and contact juice away was B*LLshit!!! They stuck camera's in the faces of people who never got their "15 minutes of fame" and those folks said what the cameraman & pretty/handsome news guy/gal wanted to hear...those folks got their '15 minutes of fame' (but inside EVERY ONE OF THEM was screaming "BULLSHIT"!!!!)

on edit adding:

'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!'

put up with camera's in the school bathrooms.
and backscatter machines that disrobe their 5 year old child.

I see no reason why they won't put up with this and even more as they turn the world into a giant prison and treat everyone as inmates.

There will soon be relief for those who's credit record is green marked, they'll have house slave status and be able to bypass some of the more embarrassing inconveniences.

If they are more "humane", take the bus and fly out of your favorite Canadian city instead.

Hubby & I went to Europe in Feb. 2002, and decided not to fly US airlines. British Air was lovely and we had no real problems. I will never fly a US airline out of the country again, and will use one inside the US only if there is no other way I can get to the destination.

i won't fly british air for reasons i won't get into here but our recent experience of canada on another airline is that it isn't your daddy's canada, they really do feel obliged to go along to get along and be really strict

they are super nice, super polite, super apologetic, but they still go thru crap you wouldn't believe if you're no fly'd (as my companion was)

they work hard to get people cleared but it just takes time for people who are no fly'd or otherwise have some weirdness in their paperwork

by the way, if you have a common name that any criminal or terrorist has ever used as an alias, apparently your passport is now "flagged"

sigh


the canadians are not mean, they are just trying to follow the rulebook, my suggestion is if you transit ANYWHERE in north america, leave extra time

driving doesn't matter, i've had friends who had panels removed from their car etc. driving back from usa/canada, so driving is not guaranteed to save you any hassle, if you're flagged, you're flagged -- leave extra time

It opens massive holes in the security perimeter, because then all you need to do is find a person or two who doesn't meet the pattern and (easily) get them through security with your contraband. Normally these profiles wouldn't include pregnant women, which, if press reports are correct, wouldn't have caught one of the suspects.

Tel Aviv airport is a fortress. There hasn't been a terror incident there in years. And yes, they racially profile big time. You even look like and arab and you are questioned harder.

El Al airlines also racially profiles. And they havn't had a hijacking since the 70's.

I know someone from Israel and he said he never felt more unsafe than he did when traveling in America on a US airline. He said the security was "pathetic."

"I have a magic rock that stops terrorism. I haven't had a terrorism incident happen anywhere near my house yet." Just because Israel does it, and Israel hasn't had problems with terrorism in their airport, doesn't mean that racial profiling is effective.

We need to strip search the grandmas and grandpas just like the 20 year old muslim fundamentalists.

a 90 year old woman in a wheelchair have her shoes yanked off. Then two TSA goons lifted her up while another wanded her. Her daughter, easily in her 60's, stood by appalled but unable to do anything because she was being felt up by yet another moron.

It's sickening and the sheep just accept it. I came very close to being arrested when I got pulled out of line and pawed because screws from an old ankle injury set off the metal detector. I explained the situation and displayed the scar. Next thing I knew I was pulled out of line and my bra examined in front of a bunch of strangers. Humiliating in the extreme. TSA personnel in Seattle must be descendants of the SS.

If you allow the 90 year old ladies to go through without as much scrutiny as young Pakistani male...then you are just asking to be sued by every civil rights group in the country.

We are more worried about offending someone than our own safety.

hundreds of thousands of ordinary citizens guilty of nothing but having to travel by plane for whatever reason. The presumption that everyone is a potential terrorist is simply absurd. You are right about the lawsuits, of course, but at some point common sense was completely discarded in favor of ridiculous overkill.

oh, wait a minute, he's not Arab, and was a terrorist. Shouldn't OKC pat down any white person coming into the city? They could be a terrorist, you know. How about the Unibomber? Eric Rudolph?

The solution to your inconvenience isn't making millions of law abiding people 2nd class citizens.

treated as a second class citizen.

Isn't it the responsibility of law enforcement agencies - everybody from the local police to the feds as well as the TSA at the airport - to be smart and professional in how they go about determining who might be involved in criminal activity and who isn't. To throw up their hands and operate under the assumption that everybody's a potential terrorist - 90 year olds, 5 year olds, no exceptions - is a huge waste of resources and makes nobody safer.

because she might be a terrorist?

No elderly wheelchair bound person should be subjected to that kind of treatment - period. In this particular case the daughter kept loudly repeating to the TSA personnel that her mother was an alzheimers patient and to please leave her be, but her plea was ignored.

This is not a racial issue. It's a human dignity issue.

I think that the treatment of passengers is appalling.

When we say that our non-arab grandmothers and children should not be searched or molested, and that the TSA should be profiling, are we saying that they should be profiling brown men and not white women and children? If we really believe that Al Qaida would do anything to harm us (and so forth) and that Al Qaida believes that all martyrs go straight to heaven. Why wouldn't they wire a child as a bomb? What about John Walker or the other white guy who was supposedly assisting the Taliban. What if they used one of their own white children? Or stuffed a bomb under their own grandmother's wheelchair?

If you believe that our biggest threat is from Muslim fundementalist terrorists with shoe bombs, then you must take into consideration that anyone is capable of assisting Al-Qaida (the so-called Miami Seven weren't Arab) because all Muslim fundamentalists aren't arab.

And that's why we're all suspects.

(by the way, I'm more repsonding to the subthread, than you personally) cheers :)

It is criminal profiling. It is not the same as profiling for race only, in a discriminatory manner. When it is looking for a criminal, race has nothing to do with it. It is a distortion of reality and common sense to suggest it is about race, in my opinion.

Last time I looked the jails were not full of grandma and grandpa terrorist wannabes. Harrassing them, especially, ought to be a crime.

It's even humiliating for an 80 year old woman who everybody *knows* isn't a terrorist and she knows that everyone knows it. Everybody's eyes are rolling. If you try to invision yourself being patted down with legs spread while everyone is watching, you can almost feel the embarrassment just from imagining it. I can, but maybe that's because I was randomly picked to be searched before. I hated that feeling.

So imagine how much more awful it must be to fit the profile and *know* that everyone is watching you and wondering if you're a bad guy. In this case, all eyes are watching you with suspicion. Humiliating, mortifying, and intimidating.

At least with random profiling everybody gets to share the humiliation, regardless of race, age, gender, etc. so it's not quite so embarrassing as it would be if you were being targeted because of the way you look.

I guess I kind of agree with the idea that if you're going to search certain people all the time, then search them all, or go back to random searches.

You don't see muslim communities condemning the plot. They are instead condemning airport security and the British government.

What they need to do is start protecting their religion and start coming out against these terrorists. These terrorists do not stand for Islam. However, when you let these terrorists grab the headlines day after day with messages of hate and plots to kill thousands...people are going to start being afraid.

And fear will lead to hate.

No matter if they are suspects or not. It will make everybody feel better that we're not "discriminating" against any one person or race. Why should we focus just on the people that are suspects? If my brothers and sisters were suspects, I would not recommend that everyone suffer and be humiliated. That's just me...

Imagine that you're an American who looks like an Arab.

Now, knowing that you fit the physical profile of an Arab, you KNOW that you're going to be searched at an airport. Off you go into the Arab security line. Just you and ALL the other people who look like you standing in a line waiting to be searched as all the white people and black people and asian people stare at you all.

Tell me, how could you possibly have any dignity after being subjected to that? You'd probably want to cry. It's segregation. It's telling the Arab and Arab-looking-people to stand in their own separate line. That's beyond humiliation. That's something more but I don't know the word for it.

I can understand your argument. It really isn't logical that 80 year old grandma is a threat. But we can't just pick the people who look a certain way to suffer utter humiliation and everyone *knows* why they were picked and everyone sees them as a suspect. It just perpetuates fear. For another thing, how stupid for us to only target Arab-looking-people in the first place. That's just basing all future attacks on the profiles of the people involved in previous attacks. But it's not using any imagination at all. It seems logical and realistic that some recruited terrorists could look completely different from the usual profile.

:) .. I don't buy it. If you are Pakistani and you wish to fly on American Airlines, expect to be searched. No if, ands, or buts. You will be searched so long as your people continue to be a threat to everyone else. That is the price you pay, unfortunately, for the stupidity and criminality of others that look like yourself. We apologize ahead of time. When circumstances change, then the rest of us will change. It's not about "discrimination" or "rights" or any of those idealistic matters of Constitution - it's about survival.

It's discrimination against all Arab-looking people to ONLY subject them to humiliation and to strip them of their dignity for the way they look.

What percentage of the actual muslim population has blown up planes. Now add in the number of people who aren't muslim but who are Arab. Now add in the people who aren't Arab but who look kinda like it, such as Indians or Persians. What percentage of this population has engaged in terrorist acts on airplanes? Probably something like .00000000000000000000003. If it were closer to a ratio of 1 to 10,000 or something I could more easily understand your argument. But as it stands, we're subjecting 99.9999999999999999 of the people of a race or who look like that race to humiliation because of the actions of a handful of people who happen to share the color of their skin.

Different treatment because of the color of your skin. That's discrimination.

Why are we so worried about survival when it comes to flying on planes? You have a much better chance of being killed by a drunk driver than being blown up on a plane by a terrorist. Why don't we put up sobriety checkpoints at all entrances to the highways if we're so worried about dying? That's a whole lot more realistic and relevant to our survival than the nonsense going on at the airports right now.

But whatever, it is necessary. You do what you have to do when you have to do it and you don't tie yourself up in knots talking about "rights", etc. Whose rights are we talking about here? Does everyone else not have rights also?

Besides, the terrorists will just start dyeing their hair and wearing blue contact lenses and then racial profiling will do absolutely no good.

The Nazis used "racial profiling" too. Do we really want to be like them? Why not just make Arab wear a special badge?

We are all being profiled now! All of us... Not just the Arabs...

Wouldn't be 'merkin :crazy:

in the Iraqi war, mostly Muslims. Does that mean you should be subject to scrutiny? You know, "your people" are a threat to Muslims.

Had to check the url for a minute, can't believe this is DU.

Why not adopt the Israeli policy? El Al Airlines is considered the safest airline in the world. They racially profile.

Remember it was an Israeli security agent that shot dead the shooter at LAX in front of El Al ticket counter. Our security guys were nowhere around when it happened. Had that Israeli guy not been there with a gun, that terrorist would have killed a lot of people.

Airline security in America is a joke. Believe me, if a terrorists wants to attack an American airline through a US airport, the only way we are going to stop them is if the terrorist is incredibly stupid.

moved to fucking Israel.
Do you really think that the US should look to Israel as a model for civil liberties?

El al uses it to great success.

how many of you have ever sat in the emergency row on an airplane?

think about it folks..there are many ways to take a aircraft down..without fluids or any other crap...

but there are few ways to control the American mind or british peoples minds..this is mind control..

this is giving up rights and getting the masses to buy into bullshit!

there are many things on an aircraft for emergency's that bin laden knows all about..that can be used to take an aircraft down..and it has nothing to do with your lipstick or face cream, or starbucks coffee..

but those item were given up with no argument were they?

remember there are ovens on aircraft..

there are windows and doors and pressurization ..have you ever watched "Airplane?"

i will not go into details..but think about even silly movies you have seen about airplanes...



people just remember please..there is nothing to fear but fear itself..

this is bullshit!

this is mind control ..psy-opps..bullshit

and remember nothing taken away from anyone yesterday was put in Hazmat cans or bags to be checked..

people and the items they gave up were not tracked..

this is nothing but bullshit

and if you buy into it..you are giving up your rights and common sense!

fly

I didn't know starbucks is constitutionally protected...

and you have less rights by the day...and before we know it ..nothing will be constitutionally
protected!!

because of false fear and not using common sense...

my point exactly!!

trains anyone??

oh....they check nothing ....

but go through your towns daily carrying all sorts of toxic materials!

and do remember as of today..yes today..while you throw your coffee away and your toothpaste and your make-up..

less than 10% of cargo and luggage (that is only separated from you in the cabin) by a piece of plywood and velcro rug..is checked.. by security and for security ....

fly

'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!' I want you to get up right now, sit up, go to your windows, open them and stick your head out and yell - 'I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Things have got to change. But first, you've gotta get mad!... You've got to say, 'I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!' Then we'll figure out what to do about the depression and the inflation and the oil crisis. But first get up out of your chairs, open the window, stick your head out, and yell, and say it: 'I'M AS MAD AS HELL, AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE THIS ANYMORE!"

you can't open the emergency doors with a pressurized cabin. Yes there are ignition sources and fuels on a plane. However someone going for that fuel would draw attention and an ass kicking.

It is bullshit because it is random.

Binary explosives are real, I have seen my neighbor remove stumps with them.

Mix two chemicals add detonator, boom.

because people have gotten used to "getting there quickly'..and lots of people are driving cars that burn too much gas, or are too old and decrepit...
and because people don't have several weeks' vacations like some europeans do. They plan a 1 week trip somewhere, and they have to get therer as fast as they can, so they have a few days around the middle of that week to actually relax a bit.


od they have family that lives thousands of miles away, and in an emergency, flying's the only way to get there in a hurry..

I used to fly a lot, and now..never (unless I get a free trip to Tahiti like in 2003)..All my "close" relatives have died, and our sons live within driving distance, so I'll not be flying anytime soon..and gladly so :)

We have to face the reality of the world we live in - I know it's scary, but it's reality. If it's too scary for you, stay home.

Go to almost any other country in the world and you'll see real airport security. Checking lipstick and not bringing on board a water bottle is child's play. And, hardly enough.

My life is worth a lot more incoveniences than just that.

board?? Somehow, I REALLY doubt that.

than in the US. And I mean WAY MORE LAX.

Europe and Latin America, before you ask.

IF it's too scary for you stay home????...that sounds so much like...IF you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear....or if you don't like it, leave..when that's not the point at all....

First of all, we DON'T live in any other country in the world...WE LIVE IN AMERICA...remember?...supposedly the LAND OF THE FREE...The protesting is American citizens feeling that they are being targeted/searched/delayed/scanned/abused unnecessarily....after 6 years of restrictions and more restrictions, do we feel any safer?...why the hell should any one of us be forced to put up with all this...to keep us safe???I guess IF they could guarantee us that we ARE being kept safe..that might be one thing, but what a frigging laugh that is, because they CAN'T and NEVER WILL BE ABLE TO guarantee anything of the sort...they just want us to think they can...and that we need them too...(known as smoke and mirrors)

I have flown since 9/11..sure I put up with the nonsense...but I agree that it's bullshit...IF someone is going to blow up a plane...they ARE going to find a way to do it...and for the people who want or need to fly...they will continue to do so...that's also guaranteed...so why not just leave things alone....someone might actually enjoy flying if they did...all the laws they pass, all the searching of passengers, is totally redundant, and completely useless, if the cargo hold on every plane carrying passengers is NOT 100% secured....and they aren't...

I would prefer my gov't stops trying to make me feel safe and secure, by telling me, in increasing amounts what I should/should not do, or what is/is not safe for me to do...I am not a WIMP, I am an ADULT...Let me take what chances I will...Let me DECIDE for myself...I don't need Uncle Sam deciding anything for me...It is not his responsibility to keep me safe...I will do that for myself to the best of my abilities...I will take whatever chances I feel are necessary to continue on with my life...and I want him to butt the hell out..

any person willing to sacrifice their liberty, for the sake of their security, deserve neither liberty nor security...

wb

things on the aircraft that are dangerous to your life..you may be ignroant to them , but bin laden and the terrorists are not!

and clue ..its not water bottles and lipstick!

but i am not here to tell you what those things are..just wake up..your fear is your worst enemy!

fly

They know you can make the terror alert disappear by turning off the radio or tv at home.
But once you're in line for the plane, you're stuck.
the Pigtards can use a vigorous circular motion to keep rubbing the terror message into their faces until they can't ignore it.
I submit that if it is all that dangerous, people should forsake the airlines. We do not owe those corporations an existence at the cost of our own.
Trains and automobiles can substitute nicely.
Indeed, between Saint Louis and Atlanta it is actually faster to drive than fly when you count the security delays.
And you don't have to rent a car when you arrive.

screen the cargo hold. Everything else is pretty much a charade.
But what else would we expect from the Potemkin Presidency?

They just have to keep people scared until November.

There are some HUGE loopholes in security, and one quick and almost painless fix would be to
- require passengers to present ID and boarding passes RIGHT AT THE GATE,
- require scanners which read the boarding pass and show the gate attendent the name the fight was booked under, then require the gate attendent to matche that name to each passenger's photo ID as they board

As it is done now, Mr. or Ms. Terrorist can very easily bypass watchlists.

But no, instead they're taking all liquids.

I've given up. I have 12 flights in the next 4 weeks, and I'll just check my goddamned luggage (6 of my flights are with the airline and into the airport with the WORST lost luggage stats in the US - USAir into Philadelphia) :cry:

I'll take one change of clothes and anything valuable like jewelry in a carry on, but make-up and toiletries will get checked with my other clothes (I just can't take the time to dig up make-up, deodorant and non-Rx specialty cleansers and creams for my rosacea at each of my 6 destinations) :cry:

You really can't exclude anyone. I seem to remember there was a white German woman who fell in love with a Muslim -- and she was prepared to be a suicide bomber.