Ilegal Immigration--Mexico

I caught the tail end of a Snooze Hour piece on illegal immigration last night. Gwenn Ifill interviewed the Sheriff of Maricopa County, Arizona named Arapaio (Sp). All of the politics aside this guy seems to know how to stop illegal immigration--arrest them, put them in jail for six months then send them back.
Now I am not versed in the debate, but one thing this Sheriff is doing is creating disincentives for coming across the border. He said that illegals won't come over if they know they will be in jail for an extended period of time. "They won't make any money to send back home", he said. He then said that illegal immigration has slowed to a trickle in his jurisdiction.
Whatya think?

someone sits in jail, than I am of any number of illegal immigrants!

What do I think?

I think it's stupid as all hell.

just because you're not an Italian citizen??

You break the law, you deal with the consequences, citizen or not.

I don't see why they would be placed in jail. Because Immigration is not doing their job?

Sheesh.

Sheesh indeed.

Some crimes are OK, but others aren't.

What is this? Sunday school?

Which is what we're talking about here, then do you deserve to be jailed for six months?

Nobody is talking about letting murderers go unjailed simply because they're not citizens.

build!

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=%20SC20060206&articleId=1897

snip

A Halliburton subsidiary has just received a $385 million contract from the Department of Homeland Security to provide "temporary detention and processing capabilities."

The contract -- announced Jan. 24 by the engineering and construction firm KBR -- calls for preparing for "an emergency influx of immigrants, or to support the rapid development of new programs" in the event of other emergencies, such as "a natural disaster." The release offered no details about where Halliburton was to build these facilities, or when.

Gosh, what a nifty idea! Convenient too. Pure GOP genius.

Don't tell me that they should do it legally because apparently its easier to pay thousands of dollars to a coyote and then risk your life crossing 20-30 miles of desert to get here than it is to do it legally. Besides if they were allowed to come here legally they would come with their families and they would spend money here in our economy instead of sending it across the border. Its dumb economically and its inhumane to throw someone into jail who just wants to feed his family. If their family is already on the brink of starvation throwing their provider into jail for simply wanting to come here threatens the lives of his children who have to wait 6 months without income for food and medicine.

in our county jail for months because, they just weren't very important to anyone.

Except their families back home who were probably worried to death and struggling to live at all.

This is not a solution. It's inhumane, period.

The law, right or wrong (who decides this?), must be enforced. Agreed?

regardless if the laws are ethical or not. A better question I think is, Is it morally right for citizens to subvert or break laws that are inhumane, or violate fundamental rights? (for example giving aid and shelter to illegals, leading slaves to freedom, refusing to give up your bus seat, or refusing to fight a war that is unjust) I for one say yes. Normally I am all for working within the democratic process to change bad laws, but when lives are on the line there isn't enough time to go by the book. Also Governments that trample on rights in my view have lost their authority to govern In both of these cases a little civil disobedience may be the answer to bring about change (although there maybe consequences to doing so). Humanity and rights are more important to me than the law (even if they are democratically created).

"Governments that trample on rights in my view have lost their authority to govern"

aggressively enforced?

We can challenge laws we believe are unconstitutional, and ask the courts to rule. But until the courts rule differently, laws should be enforced.

giving us all the more opportunity to bring them to the courts to overturn them. But that's an apple and orange issue in comparison with the security of the border. You as well as I know that millions of tons of "hard" drugs like coke and heroin come across that border every year. I'm not talking about bringing grass in, I'm talking about the "hard" drugs that fuck people up. We have to put an end to that as well as an end to the smuggling in of poor and desperate human beings from the 3rd world who are used many times as sex slaves by rich sick Americans for a small price to their pimps.

A few months ago, Santorum got on his soapbox and announced that he wanted to make masturbation and oral sex illegal.
:spray: :rofl:

(sorry for being off-topic)

How can you outlaw beating the meat and oral? Is he going to clone himself 300 million times and stick himself as the grand policeman in every person's bedroom in America? Fucking fundamentalist asshole.

they broke our laws coming into this country, they are
criminals and deserve to be incarcerated..Why is so hard
to ubderstand "they are criminals just by being on US soil
without the proper authorization"
Causght the first time 6 months then deprtation
caught the second time 5 years then deportation

some people migrate "illegally" but laws were changed to suit the needs of the powerful (GOP) because in this country MONEY TALKS. Have you heard about the "Wet feet/Dry feet" policy?

And besides, why should I pay taxes to take care for an inmate just because Inmigration didn't do their job?

I have heard of wet feet/dry feet policy for
Cubans, however I believe they should all be considered illegal.
But the point is you obey whatever laws are in force at
that time

Inmigration laws, or law enforcement is picking and choosing who to penalize. If the police does not find the guy who stole my car cause he is too tired or not interested enough to do it, I shouldn't go around chasing the thief with a gun to get my car. Jails are overpopulated as it is and why create more burden to that system.

no one is enforcing the immigration laws and that is the problem.
They need to be eforced and the penalties need to be severe. And if
you catch someone stealing your car you have every right to try and
stop them.

I would chase someone for my car. :rofl:

And we should be paying American citizens to do the jobs the undocumented workers do here. I wonder how many American workers are willing to work for the same wages we pay undocumented workers?

they're the ones pushing to arrest these people because "we don't know who they are, they could be al Qaeda, they could be rapists, oh my God...." Which although there are many illegal alien criminals, the vast majority are just attempting to feed their families and I can't really blame them for it. But we do need to secure out border. It's a matter of pragmatism. Human smugglers, gun smugglers, drug smugglers, murderers, rapists, etc. all do come across that border every year and thousands every year pay for it with their lives. It's just we need to relax our archaic and draconian immigration laws that haven't changed since the racist 1940s.

Let the concentration camps begin. Starving people will find another way and risk their lives doing so. And who is going to pay for the six months incarceration of these people? I mean there would have to be guards and other jail personnel, not to mention food, clothing and medical care for the prisoners.

There is really an enlightened and simple way of taking care of this, but it would involve letting many of them in legally and no one wants to look at this solution because they don't want brown people in their towns.

reared its ugly head.

Here's an enlightened way to deal with this--pay a decent wage for hard work, organize slaughterhouses, cleaning companies and other businesses that exploit workers, and watch citizens take the jobs.

All I have heard is that they are illegal, so wouldn't giving them a chance to be legal take care of that problem? So I know that isn't what you want, so what do you want? I think you know the answer. You don't want them in your town period, no matter how legally they entered. Now if I'm wrong explain to me what the real reason is?

for all workers, and harms the standard of living for everyone. But keep arguing for dirt cheap labor. The corporations love you for it.

Btw, not everyone who disagrees with you is a racist. Race is not the issue. A living wage is.

workers here from European nations? Any large city is full of them, yet you really don't hear about it. Shouldn't the laws be enforced equally with everyone?

I haven't specified what kind of workers bother me. However, in sheer numbers there are many more here from Mexico. That's a simple fact. And the Mexican economy operates on monies generated by undocumented workers here. No European government encourages workers to come here as Mexico does.

And, like it or not, the large number of Mexican flags at demonstrations raised questions about why Mexican workers are here, and about their feelings toward this country. Maybe there were also Polish flags, but not in the same numbers. That was the worst PR move any demonstration organizer has ever made, and it left an impression.

Me, I don't care who Wal-Mart and Tyson are exploiting. I just want it to stop.

Again, the issue isn't racism, no matter how much you want it to be.

back them. I think you are wrong because I distinctly remember reading somewhere that hispanics were only about 30% of the estimated illegal immigrants in this country. Please put up something with facts.

Do eurpoeans and others coming here illegally learn our language first? Or is it because so many have come here from spanish speaking countries that we now have dual language signs, menu options on phones, etc and so on?

Why don't we have the same for french speaking, russian, et al? Are we only trying to help brown spanish people out and saying screw you to any one else? I don't get to press 3 for japanese :)

We have two countries which border us that we get illegals coming in from. Which do we have more coming over?

All in all, there is a larger problem with people from our souther border, who happen to be brown, coming here and not speaking the language, not trying to come here legally, and grabbing tons of jobs: but then, there is a twist to that to. bush is president, so we should have less jobs and the economy should be in the shitter. Yet we still have people pouring over the border to come here and work? Maybe the economy is chugging along just fine and jobs are growing like crazy.

Or maybe we are all just wussies who want our own house and suv/car and loads of extras whereas some people who come here live together, pool their money, and don't demand all the extras we do - and so they see this as a land of oppurtunity because they can make their dreams come true whereas our dreams outpaced our financial abilities.

This could go all over the place :)

For some people, this is the land of dreams, for the people lilving here it seems at times to be the land of suckiness. That alone is interesting to ponder...

Your reply is off topic. The discussion is not about "spanish" language but about enforcing the law and the best way to do this.

what language have to do with the discussion. Also, I do not think that the "spanish speaking" population in the US, in a vast majority here legally, should not be to blame for the marketing tools used by companies to attract latino customers. In government it is done to "buy votes", Republicans and Democrats do that all the time. But unfortunately what is working now (to get votes) is the criminalization of a segment of a population (Migraphobia).

Firstly though, language is brought here by those coming across our borders (whether by air, sea, or land). If we have a large number of people here from one language pool it is indicitive, to me, that most those people share a common root country/or countries.

Given that spanish is pretty much a second language around here one could conclude that both legal and illegals coming into this country come from said region.

Now if a large majority of them are here legally it begs the question - why didn't the rest choose to come here the same way?

This all goes back, to me, to when someone trots out that people are bitching mainly about folks from mexico being here because they are brown. To me people bitch about it more because the problem we are having with illegals entering here is mostly folks from that area. I don't need a strict count to guess that such is true, i simply look at the prevelance of the language in day to life here.

Every country I can think of off the top of my head has some immigration policy. I looked up canada's recently and even mexico's. I doubt I would qualify to be able to migrate to Canada, Mexico is iffy. If folks in mexico had a sudden rush from the north into their country two things would follow: there would be an influx of white and black people, and more english speaking people would be noticed. They may not notice someone who was brown speaking spanish who came there from further south as easily as they would someone from here.

More to the point. I grew up in Ohio. Left for some years and came back. Don't remember seeing more than a few, at most, mexicans or businesses like mexican food marts and resteraunts. Now they are all over the place, from yard care to building industry (which is why a good friend of mine had to look elsewhere in his drywall job, he was making 12/hr and they were getting 7/hr and no one would hire him in at anything above 7).

There IS a problem. That does not mean I don't like or respect folks from Mexico, nor that I fear them, or see them as any different than me (and I would probably do similar things like sneak into Mexico to work if the roles were reversed). But it does have an affect on people here, and this is not occuring because we have a wave of people migrating here legally (like my friend from Iran did, took years and about 14k to do it, and two years ago he became a citizen).

What to do about it is a whole other issue though....

the wages wouldn't go down. The industries who hire them in the higher paying, formerly union jobs, know that they are union busting and paying less for labor. If those workers were legal, they would be part of the system instead of part of what is tearing it down.

Think about it. If you are union, you should be encouraging them to join, legal or not legal, it keeps the industries from trying to hire for lower wages and benefits.

Hell, Tyson pays their way!

It wouldn't hurt English speaking Americans to learn Spanish and for that matter the local native american language spoken in their area. It would really make their lives much, much richer. I was once learning Japanese because of the business opportunities as have many Americans. When you stop learning then you become a fence post.

or the Minuteman by the fence.

trying to be silly here. :silly:

Then just press one for English.

:eyes:

:sarcasm:

I can't believe anyone at DU considers CNN a source of reliable information.

isn't very accurate or convincing. Where would you ever have read something as obviously incorrect as "hispanics were only about 30% of the estimated illegal immigrants in this country"?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/31/illegal.immigration/


"The vast majority of the illegal immigrants are from Mexico, officials said.

"The numbers are based on census figures from 2000 and the agency's own statistics. They are the first official government figures on illegal immigration released since 1996.

"The figures show that between October 1996 and January 2000, the number of illegal immigrants grew from about 5.8 million to about 7 million, an increase of more than 300,000 annually.

"The proportion of the illegal immigrants who are Mexican has increased to nearly 70 percent from less than 60 percent, the INS said."

did I ever single out illegals from any country..
If you are here illegally from any country you are a criminal
and need to be jailed/deported. In fact I'd be all for reducing
the legal quotas from Europe and giving them to 3rd world countries.

Just because he was able to get some fancy immigration lawyers to fix things for him doesn't change the fact. How about all those Arab shieks and their multiple wives and families living in Beverly Hills? They all came in on visitors visas and are still here. Oops I forgot about those fancy immigration lawyers again. Really, if you are going to make those accusations make sure you cast a very wide net. You will need it.

http://pewhispanic.org/reports/report.php?ReportID=69



Bold letters are mine.

From the Wharton College of Business

http://www.theepochtimes.com/news/6-5-29/42102.html

Also, further down on your source they quote my source, The Pew Hispanic Center, which is actually based on studies of what does happen not what might happen. Your article leaves the conclusion up in the air.

Flood the market with cheap labor, prices of that labor (wages) will go down. You don't need a PhD from Harvard Business to get this. Why would labor function differently in the marketplace than any other commodity?

Looky where his economic policy has gotten both us and Mexico. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that supply side economics don't work.

Illegal immigration provides cheap, pliant, obedient workers for a fraction of the cost of American citizens. For years, firms have attacked workers in order to drive down wages and reduce benefits, but they were never able to do so as effectively as when they had a pool of illegal immigrant labor to draw from. No pension, no health care, below minimum wage--the best tools one could use to break up indigenous workers, worker unions, and liquidate workers who have to be provided all of that according to US law.

If one wants to have a functioning immigration policy, the first step before anything else is the securing of our nation's ports, borders, and airports. Anybody trying to come into the US after that who isn't apart of some pre-existing guest worker program is going to be sent back.

Second step is attacking the employers who hire them. Fine them. Jail them. Whatever the price one should pay for violating labor laws and engaging in destroying worker unions.

With no easy access to the US because of better security and few employers willing to hire illegal aliens for fear of government punishment, the problem will largely solve itself without the use of massive concentration camps.

The final step is encouraging leftists in Latin America and indeed other parts of the world to invest in social spending. If you want to fight illegal immigration, it takes a lot more than just securing the borders. It takes a proactive approach as well, and that can happen if we would have Democrats who are not afraid to embrace leftist governments worldwide rather than shun them for being socialistic.

Laws cannot be created to please ONE nationality only. All people coming to America should be given the chance to become a citizen.

Why are some nations considered better than others and given preferencial treatment?

Wet-feet, dry-feet policy? Ring a bell?

Do you need to make a point?

I'm not advocating supply-side economics. I'm simply stating the RULE of supply and demand. The first thing they teach you on your first day in econ 101.

If he does then he must have learned his economic theories from Harvard? Yes? No?

Having a degree from a place doesn't mean you still apply what--if anything--you learned there. I took classes at the school that developed Death of God theology. I don't believe God is dead.

Logic isn't your strong suit, is it?

People go to where there is to be money made. Americans also pursue jobs that will give them higher wages does that meant that that is bad for the economy? No. Mexican immigrants who come here to work make about 10 times the wage that they would make in Mexico. While this wage level may seem low to us, consider the alternative, they would be making 50 cents/hr instead of $5. They will also have the opportunity for their children to get an education which will greatly increase the chance of them escaping poverty in a generation or two, an opportunity they would not have otherwise if they stayed in Mexico. My ancestors (and probably yours) came here almost penniless and contributed to this nation, I believe that I am better off because of their decision to migrate.

Here's what will happen if workers were allowed to migrate here
1. Business will make a lot of money from having cheaper labor
2. They will use this money to build more factories etc. to be able to hire more of them.
3. Other business will want a piece of the pie, and will compete with those businesses by hiring cheap labor also.
4. Because of #2 and #3 this will cause an increase in the demand for workers
5. This demand will lead to hire wages
6. These higher wages will reduce the profits of those businesses
7. Meanwhile the wages will rise and profits fall until they become similar to wages and profits found in other industries in the US.

The end result is that Americans will pursue more jobs in business and as investors as immigrants take jobs that are labor intensive. It is false to claim that there is only a limited amount of jobs to compete over.

just like my wife did..Making them "legal" is rewarding
illegal behavior..So send them back and let them apply
to come legally but at the end of the line for coming illegally
to began with..I am all for increasing quotas but only after the
illegal problem is solved, and if that means jailing them, then
so be it.

to raise the quotas of illegals coming in here to match the demand for their labor. This is a concept that seems to be lost on the "put them in jail because they are illegal" sycophants.

It's called the ICE now. Secondly, law enforcement agencies don't make laws, they enforce them (should have learned this in high school civics class.) Congress makes laws, and is debating this issue now.

if I ever had one. (I didn't.) Sorry I didn't keep up with Bush's dismantling of our system. INS or ICE, you decide or is the decider our new dictator doing so?

Hey enlighten me.

It's right there in the Constitution, which pre-dates the fifties.

it seems, at least based on his interview with Ifill.

definite need for these people to be here. A need on both sides. They need some way of improving their quality of life. We need their labor in the fields and else where. If this were not true, they would not be here. I think that is a given. If you were to strictly enforce the law, the needs of both sides would not be met and that is why the law is not rigorously enforced.

My main point I want to make is that I firmly believe that the only reason people are for enforcing the law is because they are xenophobes. The law gives them a convenient way to hang onto their racism yet present a picture of holding the moral high ground. My feelings are that none of the negatives that are used as reasons for being against this immigrant population are valid. They pay taxes, they do work that most citizens do not want to do, they assimilate into the culture, they are not getting free social aide. They are of a different culture and their culture is rapidly changing ours. But that is the way of the future. It is called multiculturalism. It will happen no matter what you do or what you want. You can make up your mind to go with the flow or constantly beat your head against the wall and write posts like these.

I further believe that the immigrants should be offered a fast track to citizenship after they work here for a number of years. Their children born here are American citizens and you cannot deport citizens and I do not want to break up families. The cost of rounding up immigrants is in the billions and more than likely cannot be done. The second generation immigrants move into the middle class and become very productive law abiding english speaking citizens, just what we all should be.


I listened to many of the kids that walked out of school over the Sensenbruner (sp?) bill and I was very impressed with what they had to say and how they felt. They wanted a chance at a decent life. A chance they could not get in Mexico. They want a chance to be decent wage earning law abiding citizens. I could not fault them for that. My heart went out to them.

So many of our new union workers are these immagrants. They fight harder than we do for better working conditions. We benefit from their efforts. Cities all across the country are voting for living wages for hotel and service workers. These folks if they were citizens would fight and vote mright along side of us for social justice. They are on our side in just about every issue we fight for.

For these reasons the idea of enforcing the law is just so impractical. So many people understand that and that is why it is not enforced. The others I feel just will not face the reality of the situation.

:applause:

and pay taxes and pick your crops for a low wage and and and

These people are breaking the law. Should the law be enforced?

pressuring prosecution of our President and his cabinet who have broken just about every article of law in our Constitution that they have sworn to uphold. When that happens, then maybe we can pressure Mexico to solve the problem from their side of the border.

Enforcing all laws. Seems like a good idea.

Face it, we have a lot of stupid laws. Half of us would be in jail if we enforced them all.

of how the law is disproportionately applied depending on income, privilege, race etc. But, this is not about that. This is about enforcing the law on immigration. Bush's crimes gone unpunished have nothing to do with an illegal immigrant's violation of the law. If the law is not enforced the legal system loses its credibility....etc.

If these people were paid better than a few dollars a day, they might stay there instead of risking life to cross the desert for $25 or 30 per day. These people don't want to leave family behind but the fact is... they can help their families at home by working here.

I see these people on a weekly basis. Would I ever consider calling Homeland Security to come and get them? No way!

BTW, the border security forces down here in So. AZ still say Border Patrol on their vehicles but they are now paid by the Dept of Homeland Security.

of the Sheriff of Maricopa County. I am sworn to uphold and enforce the law which includes immigration law. I have found a way of doing this within the law. Do I enforce the law, or let it slide?

One can argue forever about what they would like to see in this case, but the law, enacted by due process, is the law and it must be enforced. (((No cherry-picking allowed)))


On edit: punctuation

enforcing the spirit of the law not the letter. One of the reasons you may be walking free today is because a law enforcement officer didn't enforce the letter of the law with you.

Law enforcement officers are not supposed to be choosing which laws to enforce.

law or not.
You see the problem when you get to pick and choose the laws you want to enforce as a law enforcement officer?

Arnold Schwarzenegger who is now the Governor of California. He's trying to lower wages all around for California state employees, teachers, nurses, policemen and fire fighters. Now that's a guy who could bring down wages. Why is there no equal outrage?

We aren't expressing outrage about this, because we weren't discussing this.

For the record, I'm also outraged about the war in Iraq.

I'm capable of being outraged over two things at once.

any difference how many red herrings you hang on the line.

that its fallaciousness doesn't matter, I take that as assurance that I've won the argument.
Thanks!

It doesn't change anything.

or should it be judges? I think the sheriff has to much authority in this case.

Yes, judges do have the final word and maybe it's time for the civil liberties union to start putting these cases in front of a judge.

But don't know for sure.

He is also noted for such time-tested law enforcement techniques as requiring inmates to wear pink underwear. :sarcasm: Hardly a progressive icon. And not like he would care, but jails there could be getting awfully crowded; sure hope he doesn't have to release anyone, like violent offenders, any time soon...

As for the pink underwear, that was to keep costs down because underwear was being stolen left and right. Since then, the underwear budget has gone down considerably.

As for overcrowded jails, we don't have a problem - we use tents. And, here in AZ, we have plenty of land to put them on.

Perhaps you should check the facts before you start preaching.

not exactly willingly, but... this IS an immigration thread, after all. :-)

How humane is that?

The guy is a sicko but the conservatives here in AZ love him.

Now I'm seeing blues who praise him as well.

"The illegals do the work that no one else will do."

So it's all-right for the chain gangs to do this work without being accused of stealing jobs, but God forbid an illegal immigrant does this work.

Arpaio is not a beloved man necessarily but he is effective. I don't agree with all his policies, but he's tough on offenders. He recognizes the need for enforcement of the law, pure and simple. And, I admire him for that. He's gotten death threats and his family has been in danger, but he won't back down. I have to respect that. There are many work programs for them, including a huge animal rescue program. For the most part (and I say that because there's always a bad officer or two) the prisoners are treated fairly and decently but they aren't coddled. And why should they be? Why should I pay for them to sit around all day and watch cable TV (cable was eliminated by Arpaio)?

It could work, but the cost may be too much. Putting them in jail for a long, long time may really cause illegal immigrants to think twice before they come to America again.

And they should be charged with terrorizing bigots. Send them straight to Guantanamo.

Made of the same smelly stuff as the Minutemen.

I think they might have to expand Guantanamo.

A better way to solve the problem is to encourage Mexico to invest in social spending and remove corruption rather than let corruption and graft suck away the tax funds and keep the money circulating among just the rich.

How can we tell them what to do when we are becoming exactly like they are?

Poverty is too much treated as just a national issue, but it's an international issue. Multinational solutions have to be pursued here.

And no one can see beyond tomorrow... when next week WE will be the people looking for work elsewhere because OUR families are starving.

No one knows how to share anymore. And the people with the most to share are the most greedy.

Would better serve them and the rest of us if it were used to feed the poor in Mexico.

The bottom line is that Mexico is what the US is becoming... a top-heavy monster. All the money is held by a few and the rest are left to rot. Until that is changed, the "problem" will persist.

Now, about that "problem"... seems no one gave a flying rat's ass about immigration until the Republicans needed an issue.


This whole deal is bogus as hell and we only make matters worse by arguing about it.

How do you fight a top-heavy monster? We can't seem to do it ourselves in our own country. We sure as hell can't offer any kind of advice or assistance in the matter to another country!

are going to know soon enough why the poor in Latin America want to come here and now in this day. I hope more enlightened nations see the value of them and their work ethic and let them enter their nations legally. We will be the ones who lose because the day when we need to emigrate to greener pasteurs, they might consider us just fat, lazy and spoiled people and say no thanks.

I fear you are right.

Why do people insist on punishing the victims of poverty before those who exploit them?

they would be out on bail in no time. There is absolutely no need to feed, transport and other expenses involved with incarceration.

But it'll never happen with the Repugs in charge.

The logic is sound, however, and we're about to take back Congress.

Unfortunately those laws haven't been passed. Yet.

(and, I'm by no means an Arpaio authority...but I bet he'd rather do that too!!!)

They just have not been enforced. Where is the outrage from the "law and order" crowd on that one?

I know a number of contractors. But that really isn't the question. The illegals broke the law and they will not learn how to abide by the law unless it is enforced. It is that simple.

...and easily circumvented. My suggestion was that we we actually PUNISH those who hire illegals, with stiff fines and jail time, since the employers are the reason for the illegal immigration in the first place, rather than punish the poor who are breaking a minor law to escape poverty. It's much easier, cost effective to do it my way than to blame the victims, but I suppose that's easier than showing compassion for some people.

that guy is a notorious rightwing asshole.

Speeding? Jaywalking? Drugs? Underage drinking? Surely you should be locked up in his tent colony, too.

I keep getting "page not available" messages.

At least now I know one reason why the Left, justifiably or not, gets the label as "soft on crime". It may be why so many "Righties" will support the most odious of characters, like our fascist dictator. In desperation they opt for law and order. This Sheriff gets alot of support for what he's done. As somebody here mentioned he also gets death threats.

If you do not believe the law should be enforced for illegal immigrants then you can't expect it to be enforced for anybody. What about those people who enter legally? Why should they if others are allowed to cheat? In response to the take that the privileged get away with murder,etc. I say that that has nothing to do with THIS issue.

In addition, two wrongs don't make a right.

People who come here illegally get their first lesson in US law enforcement: "It's Ok to break it if you want to."

The immigration system is there for a reason. A free for all on the border is an open invitation for anybody to come into the country including fugitives and other unnice people. It would result in chaos.

So the fundamental question remains: Enforce the law or not? Or, what would you do if you were the Sheriff?

I vote for enforcing it and congratulate the Sheriff of Maricopa County on the measures he's taken.

And I thank all of you for your interest in the topic.

Doesn't that go to show that its easier to risk your life coming here than it is to do it legally? If it was easier than risking your life wouldn't Mexican immigrants choose the option of doing it legally instead? With tighter border patrolling immigrants will just go to more remote and dangerous areas to cross which will only increase the death toll. To say why don't they just come here legally ignores the fact that they really don't have a choice to do so.

See the constitution.

Does that still exist?

he doesn't have a clue about anything but how to terrify old farts into voting for him.

As far as illegal immigration slowing to a trickle in his jurisdiction, that is utter bullshit.

He is the only sheriff in Arizona dickheaded enough to do this.

Back it up!

He doesn't obstruct the Press when they want to look into his activities. His office actually invites the Press to ask questions.

See reply #36 from AZ Blue.

here, especially in Scottsdale. You have to realize that Scottsdale, Paradise Valley, Carefree, Troon, etc. are primarily bastions of the recipients of the re:puke: upward redistribution of wealth that has plagued this country for almost 30 years.

There is also strong support out here (apparently AZblue is one) for the "get tough on crime" crowd that just loves to see people harshly punished for minor crimes, Arpio created his "tent city" where un-convicted prisoners (awaiting trials and no $$ for bail) are forced to live in tents in the extreme weather of AZ (5 months of triple digit heat in summer and freezing temps overnight in winter) with other convicts, are fed meals that are unfit for human consumption, are subjected to physical abuse by the gards as well as the other prisoners, resulting in several deaths over the years. I hardly think that someone deserves to die while waiting trail for a petty theft, but I am in the minority out here.

As for illegal immigration, I dare anyone to find a landscaping service, construction contractor, or virtually any labor intesive service that isn't rife with illegals. Citizen tradesmen simply cannot find work that pays a just wage here because $10 an hour is the going rate for the illegals. In fact, it is so bad here that wages for most of the trades has actually declined over the last 20 years.

Or more?

The authorities might be able to catch a quarter of them; thats 1000 people per day over 6 months.

It was after I wrote to every one on the electoral college urging them to give Gore their votes. The sheriff wrote me an email saying I was breaking the law and would hear from his office. Never did. And I was kind of expecting to be incarcerated in pink underwear in his jail.

I'd like to see it.