Remember President Johnson's war on poverty?

When did it become a war on the poor?

Let me ask everyone an honest question. If you are standing in the middle of street and you have nothing but the clothes on your back (no money) and they are dirty and you smell because you haven't had a bath for awhile and you haven't eaten for several days and you are looking for a drink of water and a place to relieve yourself, what do you do?

Please tell me what do you do?

at least that's when it became acceptable. even Nixon and the other Republicans still made the bad guy out to be the commie spy type.

under Reagan they demonized the poor single mother, the homeless person etc.

what it was like to even have basic needs like drinking water and a place to go to the toilet taken from him.

By the time Reagan left office, he had cut the spending on programs to help the poor to levels lower than they were before Kennedy took office. And that was actual dollars, not even counting for inflation.

Of course it sounds pretty easy when I put it that way. Having worked with the homeless population and with long-term welfare recipients, I know that it's not that easy. But those four steps are exactly what the destitute need to do. Things get better for the overall economy when Democrats are in charge. But that's a long term solution. When you're on the streets you need short term solutions.

Sadly, most of the people who are homeless are either mentally incapacitated and need to get on some meds or are using and need to get off the self medication. A community that cares needs to reach out to people like this. Sadly, we know that Republicans won't. But the only kind of help that will truly help such people is the kind that guides them toward self sufficiency.

to take advantage of what's available to them like the homeless you speak about can be substance abusers. It doesn't cover the poor who are in the shadows hiding from the authorities, like the immigrants or those who are afraid to come out into the open because they have fallen behind in obligations like the rent and paying utilities and medical bills because of job loss or family illness.

I only shift the responsibility for getting out of the situation on to the victims of these circumstances. Blame is useless because it never solves anything, so I don't get into blaming games. I was specifically answering your question about what I would do if I found myself starving, homeless, and unclean in the streets. Obviously someone who is homeless is a little beyond worrying about paying utility bills.

I've worked with hardcore homeless families, single mothers who'd spent 20 years on AFDC payments, homeless HIV+ men with criminal backgrounds. In all these populations, I would still see success stories. And every time someone overcame that kind of disadvantage, it'd be because they got shelter, quit using, and got a job. I just made up that "and vote for Democrats" thing, but I still think it's good advice.

You wrote:
It doesn't cover the poor who are in the shadows hiding from the authorities, like the immigrants or those who are afraid to come out into the open because they have fallen behind in obligations like the rent and paying utilities and medical bills because of job loss or family illness.

That's a wide range of different problems and (as I'm sure your know) not all of those problems have the same solutions. Immigrants don't do a lot of hiding around these parts. They're everywhere and working so successfully that they can send a majority of their earnings back home for their families' support.

People who are behind on their bills and now out on the street may feel a lot of shame, which may cause them to hide away from the world, but in general people won't get jailed for the crime of being evicted for failure to pay rent. (Having seen a lot of people living with that kind of shame, I can tell you that shame is as useless as blame).

They need to get into a good shelter program so they can get sane. Being homeless will truly make you crazy--maybe not clinically or legally crazy, but it still wears a human being's balance and perspective and soul down to live like that. This is one reason the homeless turn to substance abuse--altho obviously using drugs can also help to keep someone homeless too. It's also the big reason why someone trapped in this cycle has to get out of their situation ASAP and start making the moves it takes to become self sufficient again.

It's one hell of a long road out of that kind of hopelessness that you were describing. But walking up hill is always better than being stuck at the bottom.

where homelessness was a choice. Even all the sixties druggies knew where the crash pads were and when they were ready to rejoin society they did. The only truly homeless were those who wanted to be like the hoboes and road travelers. Even skid row bums usually had a flop that they rented.

When the funding for mental hospitals and VAs disappeared in the late seventies and early eighties, it became a problem. I won't go into details as to why because I could write a book on it starting with the Jarvis ammendent, Reagan's governorship in California and subsequent presidency and so on down the road.

We can get that back if we stop thinking of the needy as being unwilling to lift themselves from their condition. That is very conservative thinking.

results of an 'eighty study.

as to get a job, the Job Shortage means fourteen million never will

see my sig for documentation by the fed gov.

as to stop using, if the fraction above is still true, only
about a third at most can benefit from that.

don't despise the good you can do because you can't do everything

Truly amazing!

I can hear the discount in your words.

I *am* in that position, and I can tell you that you're the last person I'd want "help" from.

bye now...

concentrate the crime, IOW, go to the shelter and have what little you have stolen and then be raped or get the shit kicked out of you.

Drugs are plentiful and cheap so you can ignore your suffering for a few hours

What do you propose to encourage employers to hire the homeless?

Raygun created the homeless with lots of "Democratic" help.

Next?

Seriously. And my 8 brothers and sisters also.

we now have a war on the poor.

On edit I have to add that Johnson's medicare program saved our family. My father's pension didn't include medical and my mother and I would have become minus penniless if we had to pay all his medical expenses. We already were penniless.

With 11 in the family, counting Mom and Dad, we lived on less than a $1000 per year. There were no jobs and no incomes - although my Mom would walk out of the holler and do housework for the "rich" people in the Highlands for $3 a day whenever they needed her. Dad was an alcoholic and seldom had a job. When he did work, it was in a coal mine. The most I ever remember him making was $40 a week. Those were good times.

But, when the "War on Poverty" Program was started, they offered Dad $275.00 a month to work as a janitor at the county courthouse. We were living from day to day when he joined the "Happy Pappy" program. That was what most of the men called it at that time. I honestly believe that we may have starved or died from malnutrition if that program had not come along.

Poverty is a deep hole that is very difficult to escape. Everything becomes relative. When you have nothing, $10 dollars a day seems like a million. It depresses the soul. My brother and I discuss this sometimes and I remind him that if we had started in the middle-class, judging how far we have come out of that hollow, we would both now be millionaires.

You know I love you.

:loveya:

I know where you've been.

hospital records.

google Demopedia, page Great Depression for academic sources.

daddy came to Indiana and got a job at Chrysler, so we were a bit better off , but some of my cousins were not as fortunate

no child (or for that matter , adult) should ever be hungry in the land of plenty

When the War on Poverty was started. You had to be there to appreciate its impact.

They blame the poor for their situation, do not want to rent homes to them (even if they earn enough to cover it), do not want to give them jobs (assuming they won't be reliable), and so on.

They worry about their taxes going to other American people who really need it, but have no problem giving outlandish sums in no-bid contracts to huge companies that are overcharging and under-serving. We tend to idolize and envy the man who would suck the life's blood out of everyone he meets to enrich himself.

We have been brain-washed. I think for many people to empathize with those much less fortunate, they have to recognize that it could be them. That fact is just far too scary to face for many of us, so we blame the victim.

I outearned both my parents combined when I got a Neighborhood Youth Corps job after classes in the school cafeterial earning $1.60/hr. Mom worked for $5 per 12 hour shift cooking in a diner and my dad was trying to sell orange drink (NOT oj, milk, etc.) door-to-door. I brought home enough in 20 hours/week to pay the rent (then $30/month) and buy gas for my parents to get to work after they had spent all theirs on groceries for us. I revere LBJ to this day for making it possible for me to help my family survive. My conservative father hated him and never forgave either LBJ or me for saving his ass back in 1965.

RR brought back the

poorhouse... aka shelter

Hooverville... aka hobo camps of today.

republicans... policies are deadly to the homeless, who die at three times the normal rate... a boxscore of results from several academic studies.. see my posts in Poverty forum.

:hug:

link to fed reserve source, see ... google Demopedia, page on Wealth. It also has related ststs. Must read page, for all DUers.


http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Wealth

If you just want to go straight to fed reserve, ...


http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/z1/current/accessible/l5.htm

fed reserve link

of the country would increase if the poorest residents were given the opportunity to live without worrying about basic food and shelter, with access to education and job training, with access to health care and supportive services.

Reagan started the War on the Poor and every president since has continued it, including Clinton.

He was supposed to be a Democrat, but he campaigned on "welfare reform", kicking people off welfare in 5 years, and forcing people to work and put their kids in day care. We can see what a great job that's done for our poorest citizens and children. :mad:

But I see quite a few people like the ones you describe, not in the middle of the street, but huddled under freeway overpasses, and it seems to me to be a crime that a country as rich as ours permits this. Their lives must be hell. I have a very small income, so pay not as much as others in taxes, but what I do pay, I would rather that amount go to people who are need, instead of catering to corporations and the wealthy.

The way the poor are treated in this country now is becoming sadistic. It seems that we have gone beyond losing compassion, to outright loathing of the poor. Some that I have seen, I can say that unless they get massive amounts of help, their health, physical or mental, needs a long period of treatment before they can ever attempt to be self-sufficient.

I am indeed fortunate, because regardless of how bad my finances become, my grown children, and my nieces, would not let me be homeless, or hungry. Not everyone has another person to turn to. Some people are too broken in body and spirit to ever become self sustaining, but why can't we help them live in some dignity and safety? If we can afford billions, and even trillions to wage war, why can't we spend a fraction of that on taking care of the unfortunate ones among us?

I wish I could answer your question, but it's one I have asked myself any number of times. After you get evicted, and you have a couple of dollars left, but no more...after you can't get a job because you don't have an address, or a clean change of clothing, and the couple of dollars are gone, what do you do, indeed? I have made many mistakes in my life, used poor judgment at times, and am not qualified to pass judgment on others. I can't fault people for what might have been beyond their control.

This country is becoming a meaner, more brutal country to live in, and it breaks my heart. What do you do? If you can figure it out, Cleita, please let me know. I believe, from having read your posts on DU that while you might not have the answer, you would give anything if you could find a solution. Some here are not quite as compassionate as I perceive you to be. There was a skeleton of a human who had suffered from some pretty severe disabilities, found in a cave where anthropologists were digging. The age of the person at death, and the length of time they had suffered the injuries, suggested that that person's clan, or tribe, had cared for him, because he could never have sustained himself thousands of years ago. We should have progressed since then.

a species of human, now extinct, that was different from ours. Yet, the anthropologists were able to make an assumption that the individual could have not survived if he hadn't been looked after by his peers.

The point of the article I read, I think, was that Nanderthals were more like us that we previously thought. I've never forgotten that article. It's a good thing the Bush crowd wasn't in charge then.

so hard to find a term that really describes them

best results for time expended, is to spread AAR air america radio

folks need to learn our policies before voting. Campaigns are too
short a time to do that.

racism is the secret strength of the GOP.

reduce it with ..
plans for guaranteed house values

plans for Jobs for All... see my sig.

racism is the secret strength of the GOP

i am firmly convinced of this as well, too many people will vote away their own interests as long as it keeps a dollar out of the hands of a black man

They know that dividing us keeps us from coming together to fight them.

You said

"... we have gone beyond losing compassion, to outright loathing of the poor."

You put your finger on one of the things that disturbs me about living in the U.S.; the outright loathing of the poor, & lack of any kind of single-payer health plan so that no one need go w/o medical care. We are truly a barbaric nation. Are we a modern-day Sparta that leaves people out to die, yet can find the $$$ to wage perpetual war?

We must be a modern-day Sparta, when we think of the bellicose nature of the current administration, and the outright rejection of common human compassion for others. Compassion almost leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, because it's one of the things I truly hate about Chimp, and that's by calling himself a "compassionate" conservative. He, and his party, are the least compassionate I've ever seen.

My own feeling is that for democrats, choosing to have the well and able-bodied of us take care of those who, for many reasons, don't seem to be able to break the cycle of poverty, attending to their medical and physical needs, makes for a stronger society. Some may need some short term help until they are ready to take care of themselves, but there are some who will NEVER be able to do so.

When people are confronted with the ugly face of poverty in this country, we have several choices. Ours is to try to help less fortunate ones out of their problems, because our conscience demands it. For some, though, it is apparently easier to dehumanize them, in order to justify their brutal treatment of them. We all can make a choice of showing true compassion, and honestly helping, or we can dismiss the poor as beneath us, and blame them for their situations, which the majority of the time is from things beyond their control.

I would much rather err on the side of mercy and compassion, than try to absolve myself by proclaiming that they are simply too lazy to help themselves.

With food and shelter temporarily secure, I guess the next option would be to hit up the employment office to see if there are jobs available. The whole process could take a long time though, and it will take longer if the economy is not growing rapidly or is actually shrinking. The worse the economy, the fewer the opportunities to catch a job.

The War on Poverty ended when Viet Nam ended. Johnson could have been one of the great ones, but he destroyed it all.

2. Locate food of any kind, steal if required. 3. Locate money, change from a wishing well (pool where folks toss coinage), loose cash from someone's automobile, etc, steal. 4. Find a thrift store and buy some clean clothes. 5. Locate a secure place to sleep, squat in unoccupied residence if able. 6. Use those clothes to go look for a job, any job. 7. Repeat until job is acquired. 8. Find sleezebag motel where you can stay for a short term. 9. Save every nickle until you can get a permanent residence.

I know this can be done, I've done it. However, I was a sober woman, if you have a drug/alcohol problem you are screwed, as finding your fix will likely be your full time occupation.

sitting on a flowerbed edge at a drugstore, years ago, i got into a conversation with a chap... he told me of working some very low level job, and said the boss had folks like him work a week, then refused to pay.


such bosses know the lower class can never sue.

this abuse must be a priority when we take Congress.

hit it, friends

which i shamelessly recommend.

try our forum.

few post there... your post there will last forever without getting off page one or getting archived. Here at GD, it slips off page one in hours and gets archived soon.

Come to the P. forum, mon amis.

Till the RW there lied its way into power.
========================
"four percent is frictional unemployment and cannot be ended. Besides, less unemp. than that would up inflation. We now call four percent unemployment FULL EMPLOYMENT. "

... me..{FULL?? what an obvious contradiction}

Sweden proves that RW gospel is a lie. Details, see sig below for JFA site.

Joblessnes should be below one percent here too, at all times. Details, see sig below... JFA site.. advised by Galbraith.. now deceased... Clinton S of Labor .. R Reich....,and the archbishop of Milwaukee and two Nobelists, and countless professors.

serious site, serious idea whose time has come.

a figure i read somewhere, forget where.

Really. I don't know if every part of the country has this but it is helpful. We can't help people who hide from us. It is a simple fact. I also feel it is time to realize that homeless advocates who force the government to allow the mentally ill to sleep on the streets rather than put them in controlled environments where they have to take their meds are in the long run a part of the problem.

pull yourself up by your boot straps



whoops-- no boots

Broken Boot Straps, way back when. Definitely rayguns started the war on the poor, he even convinced the poor that people poorer than they, were the reason they were so poor.
They've improved on that over the years, don't blame the rich it's them over there.

LBJ is riding in his limousine along the roads of Appalachia and sees an old man sitting on the porch of a run-down shack. Never one to miss a chance to press the flesh, Johnson orders the limo to stop and steps out.

"Hi there sir, my name's Lyndon Johnson and I'm fighting a war on poverty"

The old man looks at Johnson, and then at his limo.

"Yup. Looks like you're winning, too"

But, yeah, poverty is not a laughing matter. Your question is a good point to raise; there are lots and lots of parts of DC that smell like urine because there is no place for homeless people to go to the bathroom (somebody once said you can tell a lot about a city by the availability of public restrooms: Washington DC, despite being such a tourist draw, has almost no public bathroom facilities. Even the subway doesn't let you use the bathroom.) And the worst part is, it seems like the only way to get anything done about that is to get people to object to the urine smell -- never mind the degradation the person who was forced to use the sidewalk as a toilet must have felt doing that, after being turned down from using a store's or restaurant's bathroom.

Now, what would I do if I had nothing but my own clothes and I was thirsty and needed to go to the bathroom? I would probably check in to one of the shelters in town for a few weeks, find a job, and get my life back together. I'm lucky; I don't have mental illness or a substance abuse problem; I have family and friends who can offer me support; I have skills that can get me a job; I speak English as a first language; I'm a white male with no children to worry about; I have no physical disabilities. Widespread homelessness is a symptom of many problems: drug abuse, our woefully underfunded mental health infrastructure, inadequate job training programs, and the disintegration of families and communities. The right focuses so much on individual choices that they are blind to the way environment limits and conditions choice (I also have a rant about how the left ignores the importance of individual choices, but I'll save that for another board :) ).

:eyes:

to middle class, the poor have lost and so have the middle class because they have instead dropped in affluence to become poor. An ideal society, like we had in the forties and fifties, should have a large middle class, and a few rich and a few poor percentage wise. When the middle class starts disappearing and the poor class increases and the rich become richer then you have lost your country to medieval fiefdom as far as I'm concerned.

If the poor in America's health problems mostly come from obesity and not starvation then the war on poverty has succeeded to a certain extent. If the goal was less difference between the income of the poor and the income of the rich the it has been a miserable failure.

people who are living in squalid conditions. Disease is equal opportunity and spreads to both rich and poor. There has been an increase in TB in the past few years and there is talk about some new mutant strains of plague that don't respond to our present pharmacopia and could spread if it gets out of hand.

and afternoon of appointments to meet, however, quickly off the top of my head since Medicare was signed into law more elderly are living longer lives. If you have stats please post and put up the source. The US Census Bureau and the office of statistics (can't remember exact name but google will bring it up for you.) If you want me to do it for you, then you will have to wait.

it was more of a rhetorical question anyway. Have fun!

in a disorganized pile I have to organize. I just don't have time now.

it is due to the lack of nutrition in the foods that they can afford, and ignorance. These sisters and brothers live on cheap fast food which fills their belly but doesn't provide any sustenance, therefore they crave more food.

Corporate food has created a unique problem, obesity combined with malnutrition.

We can bicker about who is more responsible, but that changes nothing and is counterproductive. We must remove power from those who will not help the needy and give the power to those in need. It's not a secret, everyone knows this. The question is how can we live with the way things are now?

an advocate from the Coalition on Homelessness and someone like me will try to hook you up as best as they can with the resources we fight for.

If you're not lucky, Gavin Newsom's people will hold resource fairs that you're somehow supposed to know about and go to, even if you feel ashamed and even if your thinking is not good from all the stress.

I hope you'd be lucky.