"It Appears Fitz Is On The Verge Of Indicting Cheney & Hadley": L. Johnson

Wrecking Patrick Fitzgerald?
by
Larry C Johnson

.......................

It is tough to tar a prosecutor who is frugal, focused, and apolitical. Nonetheless, the Bush/Cheney defenders and their media buddies are ramping up a campaign to smear Fitzgerald. The Johnston NY Times piece is prima facie evidence. Johnston notes that in the wake of a report that Richard Armitage was one of Novak sources that:



So, attention to detail, a refusal to try the case in the news media, and insistence on bringing charges based on evidence suggest improper "prosecutorial discretion"? Nope. I don't buy that. The facts show that Fitzgerald is keeping his cards close to his vest, which certainly has Dick Cheney and Stephen Hadley crapping their pants. Their role, particularly Cheney's, in directing the campaign to discredit Ambassador Wilson, has become clearer in the last year thanks to court filings in the case against Scooter Libby. For example, we now have Cheney's notes that became the basis for RNC talking points in attacking Ambassador Wilson.

I am not privy to Fitgerald's plans or thinking; but, given the nature of the offensive now directed against the Wilsons and Fitzgerald, it appears that Mr. Fitzgerald may be on the verge of asking the Grand Jury to indict Dick Cheney and Stephen Hadley. Karl Rove is no dummy and would be derelict and incompetent to not prepare for this contingency. He know that if Fitz drops a new legal bomb before the November elections on someone in the Administration that the Republican ship of state will sunder. When it comes to hanging on to power in Washington all is fair, regardless of job performance and competence. And, when it comes to poltical survival for the discredited Bush Administration, trashing a courageous, honest prosecutor is okay.

http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/09/wrecking_patric.html#more

I can't see much room for hope :(

Did Armitage volunteer this story about revealing the name of Plame as to take the heat off Karl Rove and Dick Cheney?

Who can tell if Fitzgerald will indict Cheney. People said Rove would get indicted and look what happened.

I still beleive we will get satisfaction on this issue, it may take awhile.

Please.

15 yard loss, loss of down, and no snark rights for the rest of the day.

But nothing alcoholic. I don't do that no mo'.

Perhaps a pitcher of Walmart Limeade, perhaps the only good reason they should continue to stay in existance.

simply because you have a delightful username?

I'm so sick of that stupid dumb shit.

Or preach, maybe, if need be - whatever it takes to get the focus on > The Ball.

:patriot:

:toast:
I want you to know I consider your blog a valuable source of information on the Plame case. I hope you're right that the current smear campaign against Patrick Fitzgerald and the Wilsons means new indictments are imminent. Anyone who's been even half awake during the past six years knows how BushCo loves to use the "pre-emptive smear" technique.

His detractors here are very vocal, but definitely representative of the opinions of most people at DU.

Thank you also for your blog, and your fight to see justice done for the Wilsons.

Some who lead the lynching disappeared once their mission was accomplished. Some unwitting followers remain. They are hardly "most people on DU".
Most people on DU do not have a personal stake in this.

I regrettably failed to properly proofread my post.

I meant to say that they are not representative.


That was the opposite of the contribution I wanted to make at this moment. I'll edit if I can.



(Kicking myself, especially after taking the time to track down the verification of Mr. Johnson's contribution to DU.)

of us are familiar enough with your consistently "on target" messages to have known what you were saying.

But surely you realize, most of the damage here is from the minders that have attached themselves to DU. They are not the people who dug in their sofas for money to send to Andy.

Miss Waverly
:-)

If you want to see these folks up close and personal, post over in the 9-11 forum.

You are a scholar and a gentleman...

in my post.

Hopefully the tone of my post suggested an editing error.

Mea culpa.


ed: D'OH!! (Smacking forehead.)

Thank you, Mr. Johnson, and a "Welcome" to DU.

As an aside, I should note that in the few areas where I have a reasonable amount of information, Jason has been spot on - despite posts on DU telling me he was making everything up.

Defeating Bush and friends should indeed be job one for Dems - including DU posters.

But as MAdem said - this is a "guesswork... exercise. Fun, but worthless". Until Frist calls a press conference, I will not celebrate.

I heard some people helping through the Brewster Jennings front ended up dead and one agent (unnamed) was killed soon after the Plame leak.

Did you hear something similar or nothing real yet?

We have a Patrick Fitzgerald and a Jason Leopold sign up here also, but they are imposters. What are you?

to really be him.

And I don't think it was actually confirmed.

Jeralyn Merritt at TalkLeft confirmed it:


http://talkleft.com/new_archives/014842.html





ed:sp

:patriot:

welcome to DU!!!

:loveya:

I know many here at DU love to gulp down BS that sounds good because they must love the feeling of disappointment when reality catches up with the BS.

Yes, I'm outraged/angered/pissed off at Bush and I'm also annoyed by Jason Leopold. To be honest, I didn't expect my little sarcastic comment to invoke a "lecture." I just think too many at DU are falling into a nasty hypocritical cycle of being annoyed by the manufactured garbage on Fox News while drinking up every sound good, feel good piece of BS on the liberal blogs without thought.

But only if it favors the Democrat cause.

It is very interesting, puts bullshit in perspective.
"I like B.S."
You might change your tone after reading.

Unfortunately, the Leopold B.S. about Rove was promoted here by Will Pitt who took partial credit at the time for the story, and who viciously attacked the doubters among us. There were the idol worshippers who attacked anyone who critized Pitt (and Leopold by the same token). The critics fought back, calling the Pitt followers "groupies". That's when things began to fall apart here over the Leopold Rove story.

Beyond the bickering, there is a fundamental point that seems to have been lost: we all prefer facts to B.S. And as a corollary, we "progressives" on the 'net must be exceedingly vigilant not to tolerate B.S. among ourselves, and have a moral obligation to call out B.S. when we see it done in our names. The journalists among us must be held to a very high and rigid standard lest we all slip into the patterns of the B.S. spouted by the MSM. That, in essence, was what the Leopold uproar was all about - the Rove stories represented the sloppiest of journalism, to the point that not only were there inherent self-contradictions and absurdities contained in the original story, the story kept changing and shifting, yet Leopold et. al. (even to this day)kept incredibly insisting that he got the story right.

We as a people on this blog can't allow ourselves to tolerate that kind of B.S. within our ranks. Too much is at stake in our fight to take our country back from the Bush fascists.

I don't think anyone here who has criticized Leopold for his Rove story takes it personally. I don't imagine anyone's ever even met the dude. He may be well intentioned, but apparently never learned the lesson he was trying to teach himself about contrition in the book he wrote, referenced above, because he still lacks the cajones to admit that his story was, if not an outright fabrication, at least completely without merit.

Talk about bullshit. :eyes:

There has been a group of people on DU that have not only been admirers of Will Pitt for quite some time, but who are so loyal to him that they placed that loyalty above their better sense when he screwed up during the Leopold/Rove fiasco, to the point of rabid hostility towards anyone questioning the story.

That's what I meant, but I agree I shouldn't have put it that way.

I will say that to Mr. Pitt's credit, he's avoided entering into any discussion of Leopold's Rove indictment stories since May. He moved on to writing about other topics, and it's easy to see from such writings why he is so popular with some people on DU.

Unfortunately, Mr. Leopold, as of just last month (over 3 months after the early May stories - I call them stories because there were several different versions of them) was still writing on Truthout about his original story being true - just amending it to now focus on Cheney instead of Rove (yet another twist to excite and confuse his audience).

The point I was trying to make was more general, although inspired somewhat by the Rove stories fiasco: that we on the "left" of the political spectrum cannot afford to make the kinds of mistakes made by Bushco and the MSM. We need to be vigilant to speak nothing but truth to power. We don't have the luxury of mis-steps like the Rove stories.

That means that any journalist holding him or herself out as representing our interests, or speaking on our behalf, must be held to a strict standard: report the facts, and editorialize, if at all, only on well established facts. There is no room for sloppiness about the facts, and no room for speculation driven by wish-fulfillment or some unprofessional craving to outscoop someone else, or childish pandering to an admiring audience for strokes.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

You should call a doctor when it lasts so long, and you should stop the vile public stroking too.

:eyes:

insulting personal attack I referenced from those whose loyalty to personalities interfered with their better judgment, and which drew comments from the Rove stories' critics referencing those making them as "groupies", all of which led to a morass of silly bickering. All the while, the real issues, which I've tried to identify, got lost in the discussion.

Gotcha.


:eyes:


You are allowed insulting personal attacks on TO, et al, and anyone who takes offense to your snarky self-stroking is a groupie.


:freak:



:nopity:

Jason is still all right with me :D

:hi:

You've earned my respect and the respect of countless others here, I'm sure.

Thank you for what you do.

and Welcome to DU.

I do so hope you're assessment is correct and our evil VP will soon be indicted, impeached, and imprisoned.

This guy makes Nixon look sweet.

You're a true patriot!

:patriot:

But all I have is a Big Thank you

Great to see you here again. :hi:


Don't be such a stranger. We need voices like yours here ... and often!

analysis. I don't know where I'd be without your input.

Thanks for your sacrifice and for all you're doing!!!

along with TruthIsAll, Octafish, et al. :)

I'm frightened just looking at it....

Put it out front for Halloween...keey the merry makers away;)

:hi:

I grew up in Kansas City, so you know how we feel about the Raiders. However, thanks for the love.
LJ

I grew up near Oakland. We're just trying to live up to our name, "America's Team"

Great to have you on board!!!

On a more serious note, your writing was skillfully presented and formed a key part of the narrative in DUer Understandinglife's excellent book, "We the People ... have no clothes" http://tinyurl.com/zlh7s

Thank you for your hard work and personal sacrifice in what you do. I can't even begin to imagine...

This gives me hope.

Note- with hope in your heart- that those earlier Americans always found their way to the light and we can, too.- K. Olbermann

Input appreciated!:smoke:

continue to bless you and give you courage to confront the powerful and demand accountability.

:applause: :loveya: :yourock:

Many of us here have concluded the same thing as you. Why do you thing Armitage finally went public, and which side is he on?

Thanks -

We appreciate your efforts.

... thank you, Bob.


Peace.

I'll see you and raise you this: it is Jason's most obnoxious, cheap-shot, schadenfreudebationist detractors at DU who need most to read News Junkie.

People tend to forget that after Fitz indicted Libby, he got an 18 month extension with a new grand jury. It ain't over til Fitz says it is.

What a close/large community DU has become.


Thank you

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x3589

Thanks.

If it's really you. Certainly it wont be the last time a Larry Johnson prediction was 100% wrong.

http://www.slate.com/id/1008336

Many of them are disrupters and they need to be called on their bs whenever they pull it.


BTW: Welcome to DU :hi:

Hope you come and 'lecture' us some more.

Both you and SusanUnPc are terrific writers with great passion and insight.

How crass. Do you never tire of being so vile?

The poster in not only calling out LJ, the poster is insulting a new DUer and that's clearly against the rules.

which is pretty wise of fitzgerald. Rove is more valuable as the man to spill the beans on the big fellas.. rove can always be indicted later. He's not going anywhere.

I believe the intent is to fry the larger fish, which cheney certainly is.

I have faith... lots of faith. I trust truthout's instincts on all this.

It will work out just the way it's supposed to.

unless you've be granted immunity.

Keep that in mind if this is still going on post-01/20/09. Which, at the rate this prosecution is proceeding, seems a near-certainty.

truthout had the right instincts, how can you say NO Rove Indictment, when TO has said it at least once and Leopold has said it already happened TWICE?

I agree with the non Indictment of Rove angle being good for now, but am puzzled at the TO remark.

And while Larry Johnson has gone out on a limb before, he is stating OPINION, which anyone can, Leopold and TO stated the Indictment{s} as FACTS, and still do..

Larry I trust, but I have no idea other than if wishes were fishes why he or anyone thinks these criminals will be put away.. even if they go to trial it will be a kangaroo court.. the whole legal system is FIXED, there is NO LAW in this country anymore, other than who has the most guns and money..

Your self-gratification and public axe grinding is beyond vile... yet so boring. How do you manage?

before flying.

It is just as likely the smear is to procure the environment in which Libby can get a pardon.

Do we really, really need to be torn apart again over some unverified hopes?

right now... and have moved to phase 2- trash Fitzgerald.

Really, after the "Rove wasn't indicted" crap... you'd think they'd want to keep things quiet about this subject.

it's got to be related to the midterms. Is anyone aware of polling numbers indicating that the CIA leak case is really hurting the R's compared to say, the Iraq war, the economy in general, or the price of gas in particular? I'm thinking not, which means this is pre-emptive damage control. Libby's case won't come to trial until months after the midterms and most of the back-and-forthing in the motions isn't going to mean much to Joe Average Voter, so the possible threat is probably from another indictment.

The wild kind. That is all it is.

but thanks for the heads up. :eyes:

we spent weeks in a circular firing squad. I responded to you like you were the OP. Sorry.

figured the celebrating could wait for the actual announcement from Fitzgerald. And it's kind of a sad thing to celebrate. Yes, wrongdoing is being brought to account and that's a good thing to pay tribute to, but when you think of all the harm that's been done, it's pretty depressing, too.

'Sides, don't we have to have a biweekly firing squad for no apparent reason?

I didn't drink it, but I also haven't taken it out.

:hi:

time I see it... Applegrove (my parents gave me a strange name eh).. Applegrove you cannot drink. Keeps my resolve high. At least when I am near the fridge.

But I'll dance a jig - even an Irish one - or maybe a Highland Fling..if Fitz punches through to the truths. I'll need a bottle of water to replenish.. cause I will be cryiing so hard.

and finally opened mine.

that champagne will be enjoyed for the right reasons.

Yours was a good one.

:toast:

and people have had a grain of salt tonight. Hard when up is down, in is out, big is small, etc. to know what is what. But at least we can learn from our mistakes. One hopes.

actively smeared and very little information to combat it, we don't have a lot to go with, other than patience. And patience watching good people get trashed doesn't sit well with a lot of us.

Speculation has its uses too.

That way..a week down the line.. your defence still stands.

stand while you gather them.

That gives them a open playing field for however long it takes to gather your facts.

Plus at some point you can look at previously proven liars and say this is most likely another lie. Their new lie may not be proven a lie yet, but you've got experience on your side. To ignore that experience and wait for proof also gives them an advantage, and they well know it.

The time between a lie and the proof that it is a lie is where the power of the Big Lie lays. IMO.

“A lie can travel around the world before the truth has got its boots on.” attributed to Mark Twain

bombings in Africa, and has done a whole host of other things.

Did Armitage tell the whole truth at the first go? Cause Rove had to go back again and again.

based on experience. Wild speculation sure, leave that out. But disciplined speculation based on experience and analysis has value as well.

I doubt if any of them tell the truth at the first go, it's not in their nature.
I speculate. ;)

hurt... absolutely you have to open your mouth. I do it. So does everyone on the DU. In an attempt to hash it all out and get to the truth..cause it sure isn't going to come from the character challenged * WH.

As of this reply, putting this whole subject on "ignore".

can't link source though, sorry.

Interest again because of this thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2031398

The special prosecutor has been focusing on Bush, Cheney, presidential counselor Karl Rove, Cheney's chief of staff Lewis I. ("Scooter") Libby, Cheney assistants David Wurmser and John Hannah, and National Security Council officials Elliott Abrams and Stephen Hadley.

Recently, CIA Director George Tenet and Plame's ultimate boss, Deputy Director of Operations James Pavitt, suddenly resigned within hours of one another. Intelligence sources have said the two have been cooperating with Fitzgerald's investigation of the Plame/Brewster-Jennings leak and the damage to U.S. clandestine operations which globally track the flow of WMDs.

Sensitive CIA operations that were compromised by the leak included companies, government officials, and individuals associated with the nuclear smuggling network of Pakistan's chief nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan. In addition, the identities of U.S. national and foreign agents working within the headquarters of the International Atomic Energy Agency in Vienna, North Korea's nuclear laboratory in Yongbyon, Pakistan's Kahuta uranium enrichment plant, banks and export companies in Dubai, Islamabad, Moscow, Cape Town, Tel Aviv, Liechtenstein, Cyprus, and Kiev, and Kuala Lumpur, and government agencies in Libya, Pakistan, Malaysia, and Iran were severely compromised. The CIA has reportedly given Fitzgerald highly classified details on the damage done to the CIA's WMD tracking network.

According to Department of Justice insiders, the length of Fitzgerald's 70 minute interview of Bush was significant. Only one other prosecutor's interview of a sitting president lasted as long, that of Iran-contra prosecutor Lawrence Walsh's questioning of the late Ronald Reagan. However, in that case, Walsh concluded after the interview that Reagan actually did not know what had transpired in his administration with respect to the scandal. Today’s officials may not be so fortunate.



Dick Cheney exposed Valerie Plame to cover up his association with A.Q. Khan's Nuclear Walmart. Read about it here: http://s93118771.onlinehome.us/DU/AMERICANJUDAS.pdf

been VISIBLE for years.. He's been leaking to rescue his credibility? No?

Why is it that we've heard so little from Tenent, although there have been rumors that his book is forthcoming for awhile. :shrug:

I think more than Tenent have been leaking...so let's "cross our fingers" and hope once again...even if our hopes are dashed..I do believe their is more going on behind the scenes in America today than Bush Crime Family vs. Feckless, powerless Dems.

There ARE PEOPLE who are NOT PARTISAN who like us here on DU are horrified at what's going on and THEY are the Shadow Government who believes in the CONSTITUTION and ORDER for the PLANET as well as our own AMERICA!

I've hoped that they were out there...and seen little signs here and there.. Let's hope this isn't a fantasy..

I wonder there must be many more



http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A5652-2004Sep8.html?referrer=email

http://s93118771.onlinehome.us/DU/AMERICANJUDAS.pdf

2. Halliburton fined $1.2 million in 1995 for selling dual-use nuclear equipment to Libya. - Halliburton came
under fire in the early '90s for supplying Libya and Iraq with oil drilling equipment which could be used to
detonate nuclear weapons. Halliburton Logging Services, a former subsidiary, was charged with shipping six
pulse neutron generators through Italy to Libya. In 1995, the company pled guilty to criminal charges that it
violated the U.S. ban on exports to Libya. Halliburton was fined $1.2 million and will pay $2.61 million in civil
penalties.
During his chairmanship of Halliburton, Cheney criticized U.S. sanctions against "rogue" nations such as Iran and
Libya in a 1998 speech. According to a July 26, 2000, Washington Post story, Cheney complained the sanctions
"are nearly always motivated by domestic political pressure, the need for Congress to appeal to some domestic
constituency." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/article... )

that the Bush/Cheney cabal don't like. Just check all the anti-Fitzgerald articles coming out.

It just makes me WONDER too!

It's not like they just came out of the blue.

Sorry, I can't buy anything that anyone speculates at this point. And certainly not from an outlet that has gotten it so stunningly wrong in the past.

Fitzgerald hasn't said shit to anyone, his crew doesn't leak, there's no one skulking around his offices taking note of who comes and goes, and until he goes on tee vee and says something, I call bullshit guesswork on the whole exercise. Fun, but worthless.

coming forward after all this time.. That set off my weird-o-meter.....

I don't understand... Did they just pick it out of the blue... Why now?

To fall on a fake sword to attempt to confuse the public and discredit Fitz?

To me, sadly, unless the indictments come down before the election, what's the point?

No trial would be finished before the end of Bush's term, and he will pardon every last one of them anyway.

I guess it is good to get em indicted even if they are pardoned, but I am skeptical of much really coming of this.

public "game over".

In fact this morning after waking up and turning on NPR, they were summarizing news events of the weeka and when the topic came up, they started going on about Armitage and the "big news" that he was the "big leak" and that what had all the makings originally of an explosive big story has really come to an end.

I remember looking over at the radio and shouting "yeah, that's what they all want everyone to think"...

Yep, its exactly why they are letting Armitage take one for the team and now trying to discredit Fitz...Lets hope that it doesn't work....

Does anyone know? It seems like a stretch to say that because Fitz is receiving partisan criticism, he is therefore about to indict Cheney and Hadley.

Am I missing something?

this Armitage mendacity starts to make more sense...

the admin is throwing off flares and decoys so they can escape

The attacks on Wilson/Plame and Fitzgerald in the media right now are shameful.

it would say he left it open for a reason. That's the one thing that's given me hope throughout all this. It's been hard to hang it there for Fitzgerald...but one has to hope there are still A FEW HONEST FOLKS left in US GOVERNMENT!

I just think our Constitution is strong enough and there are enough of us who are fighting to preserve our "Great Experiment" that Bush and our feckless Dems aren't the only folks out there working in every way they can to overcome what the Bush Crime Family has dismantled in 40 years.

We have to hope...because if someone doesn't do something soon...America is going to go through something like the Civil War of Iraq and not the Civil war of the 1860's.
:-(

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4002813


In June, Josh Marshall Talking Points

A few points before signing off, though. You may have noticed a slight down-tick in the frequency of posts of late. And that’s for a few different reasons. But a principal one is that I and several colleagues have been working on a story that, if and when it comes to fruition — and I’m confident it shall — should shuffle the tectonic plates under that capital city where I normally hang my hat. So that’s something to look forward to in the not too distant future. And that’s taken some of my time away from TPM and prevented me from sharing with you some delectable tidbits which otherwise I would have loved to have done.


I’ve spent so much time over the last several months reporting on a project that has to do with classified materials that I’m embarrassed to say that I don’t know just what the rules are for taking notes of such classified documents in secure reading rooms.

Demise. :-(

I think Josh is a better man for it going down in that he increased his website views and hired to good investigative reporters and he's distanced himsef from his former buddies in philosophy (like Peter Beinart) and is getting closer and closer to becoming a "Populist Leaning Dem."

What was done to Josh and Linda Rozen on their reporting showed the power of the MSM/Corporate Media to SMACK DOWN the "Upstarts."

I don't think the scoop Josh had about the Italian/Brit/US Connection over the "Niger Forgeries" has been allowed to go forward and I give Josh and Linda credit for "Moving On" and keeping a fight going...while realizing that it won't be one SINGLE BOMBSHELL that blows the Bushies outta the water...it will be more likely a geurilla attack of many bombs taking their tole until they have to retreat or are crushed. Josh and Linda in their innocence hadn't yet realized that they were up against the Bush Crime Family that had been puppets for decades while the REAL POWER used them to destroy everything we all grew up believing was the strength of America...our Constitution, Courts, Congress,Legal System and most of all the "CHECKS AND BALANCES."

Josh and Linda were innocent believers like many of us who are still here on DU after all these years. We thought change would come soon..it's going to take years....and years..

Josh was torpedoed on that story, but there was something to it. I'm sure he's learned from the experience and hopefully we'll hear the whole story some day.

You surmise all this from Armitage giving up his role played which was widely known within the DC circles?

but it still makes no sense

but of course i'm do want him to be right.

Given up on any meaningful indictments coming out of this. How many times have we had our chains yanked in the last couple of years?

This stopped being *fun* a while back.

and time to move on.

but I think it's best to wait until Fitz makes an announcement before getting my hopes up.

...prediction about this months ago. They never did back down on Rove indictment story. They said they knew something was coming.

:crosses fingers:

Well, that was a letdown. Who cares about his father, blah blah blah. I just want to see him in prison.

I could be wrong, though. Do you have a link?

Thanks in advance.

...there is a lot of stuff coming up that you don't normally see. 911 is rearing it's head, more election fraud including Mexico in our face as real resistance to tyranny, and more. It's strange, like an acceleration with no pattern clear yet.

:hi:

Since the info regarding Armitage as primary leaker, I have wondered if he had access to the info by reading the memo that was sent to Powell on AF1. I was always of the opinion that the plan was to have Powell situated to be the fall guy. And I wouldn't put it past Armitage to have done an end run around the plan by talking to Novak and placing himself in the cross-hairs. That said, it doesn't have spit to do with any case against the felons in the WH. They are still the focus on this. I have looked for and not found any info about the GJ being disbanded which I take as a sign of an ongoing investigation. In addition, I'd be willing to bet that RA knows where all the bodies are buried and will make a fabulous witness either for FitzG. or the Wilsons. He may look buffoonish but he is no fool and as a guy who did three tours in Vietnam, he isn't afraid of much. In addition I keep in mind how angry he was/is about the way Powell was treated. I don't consider this over by a long shot and the fact that they are going after FitzG. now says to me the dance hasn't ended.

*shadow government*

.........until the dance ends...........:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

A Catholic newsletter on the Miracles of our Lady Of Medjourie(Spelling?)

But the newsletter (circa 1994) said that Richard Armitage and Holbrook were behind the installation of Milosevic in Yugoslave, and without their participation in this theatre of events the conflics of the Serbs against the Corats and vice a versa would not have come about

Wait and see... it'll happen or it won't.

fitz has already sold out.....either his life was threatened or there is some dirt in his past or he was bought off
with hefty stack of large bills in some secret account......
Other wise Karl Rove would have already appeared before the Judge to make his plea....so dream on this is now a page of history in the chapter titled corruption.

Patrick Fitzgerald seems, by all accounts, to be an honorable man. It is wrong, in my opinion, to accuse him of such things in the absence of any evidence.

:hi:

:hi:

Actually, I dont believe Fitz' background is quite as impressive as everyone makes it out to be. He and Chertoff were the prosecturs in the WTC 93 attack... who let Ali Mohammed go (he's still MIA today for all I know).

I give him credit for taking down Gotti, but all this hype about how he goes after the bad terrorists guys and whatnot.. is pretty overblown.

Long ago he learned the Giuliani method... prosecute small things like crack dealers and play nice with the Feds... and you are justly rewarded.

Oh, I remember now !! Great repuke talking points, put out by Rove in one of our "liberal" media rags!!! Way to go!! Who would have thought that even we DUers on this here Democratic site would swallow it HOOK, LINE AND SINKER !!???? Give me a break !!:spank:

The post was quite clear to me..

Some folks are easily confused I guess. :hi:

And it is much more than what you set out in your post but that is neither here nor there.

As I said above, I believe that Patrick Fitzgerald is an honorable man and I have seen no evidence to the contrary. If you have some to present, please do.

Further, please provide facts and evidence to support your assertion that his reputation is overblown and, more importantly, please provide facts and evidence to support your assertion that he operates on the "Giuliani method" you described above.

Emphasis on "facts and evidence". Surely, it should require that at the very minimum before trashing the man on a public forum, so I will suppose that you will have no problem providing said facts and evidence.

I'll wait.

So his background is neither here nor there, but I am supposed to provide facts and evidence thereto? Confused..

In any case, I want the W scumbags to come down just like everyone else, and it is oh so tempting to place my hope in the white-knight that is Fitz. BUT I also was once a prosecutor and I know how things actually work. I think it's a lot more complex than people want to believe... people want to synthesize it to fitz=good guy, therefore big indictments.

But it rarely works like that, sorry. Fitz may well be an "honorable guy" but that doesnt bring down Cheney on its own merits. He was a few years ahead of me in law school, and it's true, I've heard nothing but respect for him. But if you remove our collective political hope and focus strictly on the legal case and how that would play out in the context of this administration... I think it very unwise to place your hope in anything big yet to come from Fitz. He blew his proverbial load already, my 2 cents.

I wont even start on the background of Giuliani, but feel free to research the dirtbag if you want. He perfected the art of going after just enough to appear to be doing his job, whilst turning the head to ignore the much larger.

I asked you to provide facts and evidence to support your assertions that Fitzgerald's reputation is overblown and to provide facts and evidence that he operates on the "Giuliani method" you described above.

It appears that, despite your claim of being a former prosecutor, you have some difficulty following a very short exchange, sticking to the subject, and backing up your claims.

You should also note that I made no comment expressing anything even remotely along the lines of placing any "hope in anything big yet to come from Fitz". You have leapt very quickly to a wholly erroneous conclusion. That is also a poor trait for a lawyer to exhibit.

Since you raised it, however, I will say that I do not expect any further indictments in this matter. You really should ask for someone's opinion before willy nilly assigning one to them.

Anyone that would take up for Fitzy is A-OK in my book. Thanks! :thumbsup:

just to be clear, I don't "take up" for anyone without good reason, so there is no need to thank me. I'd do the same for anyone else who is being falsely and prematurely maligned without evidence to back up the allegations, such as those being tossed around all over the internet about PJF these days.

The way I see it, Patrick Fitzgerald is being unjustly maligned here for no good reason, solely on the basis of nothing more than a couple of anonymous internet posters spouting off unfounded crap, and I think that's just wrong. Those slagging off PJF without any facts or evidence seem to also be members of the tinhat crowd, though, so maybe that explains it. I don't know.

Welcome to DU and keep up the good work!


:toast:

:toast:

who was obviously guilty..
Time will tell but he certainly isn't as aggressive as he was in the beginning of this investigation..

how much deference your opinion is worth.

I find that so incredibly hard to believe.

is a very good sign imo. He is quietly amassing the facts for his decision. Fitz also has not said one word about being done. Both Bush & Cheney have already lawyered up, not sure about Hadley. And we know Rove is lawyered up. Cheney is running around sounding desperate and pathetic about Iraq and nobody except Rummy to carry his water. Keith O put some serious holes in that rusty bucket last week. Libby's worst nightmare is an indictment of his former lord liege. Patience is key because making it airtight is most important!

:popcorn:

that's the only positive thing I can offer. Leslie Stahl took him out at the knees on 60 Minutes, and he must have stumbled out of that interview in a daze.

As for Dick Cheney, I suspect him of sinister conduct that might bear Johnson's hunch out, but whether Cheney is indicted or not, he has disgraced the notion of public service in this country. Dubya's a poor liar but Cheney's a polished, practiced one.

If Johnson is correct on that possibility, loud cheers would ensue from my house.

Welcome to DU Mr. Johnson. :hi:

No doubt, this is why Judy went to jail. It was for Dick.

Who's dick? :evilgrin:

:evilgrin:

I'm squirming like a 2 year-old to have this story to break out, but I'm also willing to wait until Fitz is ready. I'm also willing to wait without losing hope, or thinking he's selling out just because he hasn't held a press conference. He said at the beginning that he'd say something when he had something to say, and I'm okay with that. Sometimes the wheels of justice turn slowly, particularly when there are asswipes doing their best to throw a cog in the wheels and stop them from turning at all! I can handle the wait, I'm a grown up and I know events aren't always instantaneous. I also know better than to think something's over just because a potential target or a potential target's lawyer says it is.

I wonder what H20Man's got to say about this? Looking forward to hearing his take on it.

Hey, major congrats! You've got a post from Larry Johnson himself on this thread! Now how kewl is that?!!!

K&R for ya!

I know it is all speculation, hoping and wishing - but something IS definitely in the air...

with the best.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

it certainly IS their MO. It's quite possible.

had been indicted but it was sealed? Or was that just an unfounded rumor, too?

whatever happened to Fitzgerald. Haven't heard from him in a while.

I sure hope this chalks up to something, especially after two disappointments.

While I'm all for a Dick Cheney indictment, I just don't see that happening. Because Rove is still free, it means that the information that Valerie was an agent was declassified prior to its release. Only an impeachment hearing can get to Cheney now as this evident declassification applies to the President's constitutional authority. Seeing as how Cheney was granted the power to classify information as he saw fit, only Congress has the power to challenge this authority. The courts may be able to do it with the civil suit filed by Wilson/Plame but Fitzgerald isn't going to be involved in any of that.

My guess is the smear campaign is coming from another quarter. Here's a snippet...



With Fitz attacking Bush's agents in the media, *'s other media assets may be firing back in an effort to discredit Fitz in the eyes of the public. While I hope the OP is right and that this attack portends a Cheney indictment, this other story could prove to be equally as explosive. If Bush's Girl Friday at the New York Times tipped off terrorists after speaking with another senior official there will be an unimaginable shit-storm. After letting Bin Laden escape at Tora Bora and constantly thwarting attempts to track down and surveil Al Qeada operatives before 9/11, now we find out that someone in the administration actually aided a suspected Al Qeada front in our own country. I can see why Rove would call out his attack dogs over either issue. If an indictment is handed down in this before the election, goodness gracious...

Great catch. I only recall this vaguely, but it is certainly significant.

I would assume that by now Fitz knows who leaked to Miller and the other Times hack. Still building his case, or about to indict, I hope!!

This story could be very important. Who tipped Judy off, and why exactly did she call the charity? This was a charity that was under suspicion for funding septembertheeleventh. It would be a very bad deal for Smirky if the govt tipped its undercover, I mean, tipped off a news reporter who in turn warned the charity. I have posted this before, but could not generate much interest. This may be just as big a crime as the Plame matter, and might even be a key to the _hop theories. I think you may be on to something, and I thank you for posting.

BTW, Fitz just won the right to examine phone records through appeal.

http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp?query=fitzgerald+phone+records&page=1&offset=0&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D5dbc1c97901a6597%26clickedItemRank%3D2%26userQuery%3Dfitzgerald%2Bphone%2Brecords%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.washingtonpost.com%252Fwp-dyn%252Fcontent%252Farticle%252F2006%252F08%252F01%252FAR2006080101207.html%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSBoom%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fwp-dyn%2Fcontent%2Farticle%2F2006%2F08%2F01%2FAR2006080101207.html

So the timing of your theory is spot-on. Thanks again.

(snip)

The New York Times may not withhold reporters' phone records from a federal grand jury investigating an alleged leak of a pending government raid on two Islamic charities suspected of supporting terrorism, a federal appeals court ruled yesterday.

A three-judge panel of the New York-based U.S. Court of Appeals for the 2nd Circuit ruled 2 to 1 that the Times has no First Amendment or other legal right to refuse a demand for the records from the grand jury in Chicago, which was empaneled by U.S. Attorney Patrick J. Fitzgerald.

Though the legal issues and the cast of characters are similar, this case is separate from the case of the Plame leak.

It arises from Fitzgerald's post-Sept. 11, 2001, investigation of possible links between al-Qaeda and two U.S.-based Islamic charities, the Holy Land Foundation and the Global Relief Fund.

In December 2001, Times reporters Miller and Philip Shenon learned of a pending government move to freeze the two groups' assets. They called the charities for comment shortly before FBI agents raided their offices.

The WP story you linked is dated August 2, 2006. So perhaps by now Fitz has the phone records, or is close enough to getting them that Bushco is really sweating this one now. I think that Rove has disclosed to Fitz who the leaker to Miller was. Rove had to know.

In any case, this seperate investigation is very much alive.

I'm digging the possibilities in this forgotten Judy Miller story. I have never heard it before. I like it. :)

about Fitz. It talked about Fitz wasting two years and hadn't we had enough of this with the "investigations of the 80's and 90's." And, it mentioned how a "reporter" went to jail and others were threatened. Yet, the article didn't point out that Fitz is a "Special Prosecutor" and not an "Independent Counsel" and if I recall correctly didn't mention Judy Miller's role that the NYT's had to apologize for in an editorial about their role in excessively pushing Iraq Invasion.

I hope someone has the link to the NYT's article..I didn't save it...but the article really went after Fitz in even a harsher way than the WaPo's it seemed to me.

That must be the news that's coming out... Miller..

to the WaPo and Times articles. If this is all true about Judy, if she interfered with a terrorism investigation following a leak from federal officials about the raid of possible sources of septembertheeleventh, it will be earth shaking.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2034277&mesg_id=2034277

So much is going on it's hard to keep it all straight and with the Media making diversions and chaos their game...it's great to have DU'ers who can link and archive.

I've got some catching up to do!

I don't want to wait in vain

It's not kind to string along an old lady.

Or is he the number one man?

...but I am being cautious after what happened *last* time (Leopold). I won't be fooled so easily this time.

Tammy

I don't get too excited about bu$hCo's ***BREAKING, SOMETHING'S ABOUT TO BLOW*** news any more. Instead, I'll just wait till they finally say bu$hCo sentenced to a very rough life in exile, somewhere on the sun for instance.

Get over it.

But you are right, it's hard to believe it more now. IT'll have to happen first. I'm not gonna anticipate it anymore like so many others might.

People seemed to forget Fitz was a Republican and everyone swore he was a "good one'.Well, I just don't know.He was probably just as subject to pressure as any. You can't prove any of this stuff by me any more. I hope it happens but I am not convinced it will. I will not be diappointed again.

same with the election. It's really hard to be hpeful when we've been let down so many times.

I'd like links to articles proving that Patrick Fitzgerald is or was a Republican.

>People seemed to forget Fitz was a Republican<

When was that? He deliberately registered as "no party" both in New York and Illinois after registering as an independent and getting fundraising calls as a result. Again, let's see some proof.

Julie

He's a registered independent, but a Republicabn appointee.

>but a Republicabn appointee<

I asked for proof that Patrick Fitzgerald is a Republican. Proof.

James Comey was a "Republican appointee" as well, and created massive amounts of heartburn for Bush and his minions.

Julie

William Kristol today called for an immediate pardon. They worked up to it this week and I see a pardon coming very soon. Slick, aren't they? Hope I'm wrong, but this last week has been classic Rove/Bush media manipulation.

after seeing today's earlier thread here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2808921

Should an indictment come, may it be at the worst time for *co.

and getting nowhere. All of a sudden, Novacula pops out of his coffin and Armitage steps forward and we're supposed to believe that Armitage's "innocent" actions (how effin' stupid was that man? I'm dubious) magically wash away Libby's perjury? Why pop open this can o' worms two months before the midterms? The civil case the Wilsons are pursuing is likely not on the radar of most voters, so it is really in the best interest of the neocons to drag the CIA leak case back to the front pages one more time just now? Even if Libby gets his pardon, that could backfire with moderate and even some conservative Republicans and the R's are gonna need every vote they can get this fall.

The icing on the cake would be for Stupid to get indicted AS WELL. I think there's ALOT going on behind the scenes and we may be in for ALOT of fireworks this fall. (I keep praying for it!!!!)



START THE REVOLUTION
START THE IMPEACHMENT

Fitzgerald, Armitage, Colin Powell, Joe Wilson...

Looks like something is definitely up with this story.

:shrug:

I`ll wait until Fitzgerald announces his investigation is concluded and then make up my mind. My gut feeling....something`s brewing.

We have no idea how involved this investigation has become.
What we can be sure of, none of the underlings want to swing for Cheney...
And certainly Baby Bush is not going to throw himself under the bus to
spare ole Dick his just deserts.

This time we wait is like the time necessary for the aging of a fine Rothschild's wine.

Well worth the wait indeed.

he predicted that rove and hadley would be indicted last year. I remember writing about it for JABBS.

And I'm Richard Nixon. No one in this administration is getting indicted. Not anyone in an official office, anyway.

I'll be off somewhere not holding my breath.

...generations came and went, without a victory, sometimes without hope for victory.

Did they stop fighting? No. Did they give up? No.

I'm sure there were those who were optimistic from time to time, who said this or that would happen. What do you think happened to those people? Were they excluded, ridiculed, called all sorts of names.

I sincerely doubt it. They kept going, kept fighting.

Personally and politically, I don't judge someone based on predictions, I judge them based on their life work.

I think Johnson has a tightly reasoned case. That has nothing to do with who he is or what he's contributed...it's prediction, speculation.

Thank God for people like Larry Johnson.

http://tinyurl.com/zlh7s Read his great words in understandinglife's book on the Constitution and our obligations as citizens.

Keep the faith.

:hi:

And you're right. Thanks God for people like Larry Johnson (and you).

He replied to Larry Johnson.

Nice to see both you and UL!

:hi:

A wise man who comes in from the forest to let the villagers know some new secret or remedy...

He's got some three dimensional mojo going...but it's all good and he's not left, he's just less
frequent. He'll get the jones again :evilgrin:

Kicking for Truth, Kicking for Mr. Johnson!

:kick:

if you believe you are right. The example given of the Irish perseverance against all odds is a stellar example of Faith, Hope, and never giving up the fight. The opposition can only hope to wear you down, break you financially, plunge you psychologically into despair, turn you inside out. Why do they do this? Because you THREATEN their very lives. It's a duel to the death. If you give up and walk away...they win by default.

You might say the Darwinian approach applies for future generations.

*on edit:

autorank, thanks for the link!

I have become less and less impressed with Larry Johnson.

This is from the man whom a month before 9/11 penned that the threat of terrorism is exaggerated.

http://www.slate.com/id/1008336

and remember when you use to wish summer would never end?

I really think Fitzgerald is closing the whole thing down because he knows that whoever he indicts will just be pardoned by Bush anyway.

Let's not get Leopolded again.

:(

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!