To all the DU'ers that are defending Foley.

Have you lost your collective minds?

If you had a son or daughter, that you sent to Congress to work as a page, for whatever reason, and this happened to them, would you still choose to define your non-existant thin moral line between pedophillia and the soliciting a minor concepts so strongly?

This country is in dire straights. I won't go into the details.

And the one chance we have to recapture either house of congress, some of you are expending energy apologizing for Foley?

WHY?

This isn't a swiftboating. These aren't allegations.

This guy resign, and checked into a clinic (traditional 2-step congressional termination).

I feel silly making this post. It shouldn't have to be made. I don't even know where to begin.

This really frustrates me about liberals. Get your shit together people.

:popcorn: :popcorn:

I have been here all day and have not seen a single threader utter a word of support for Foley.

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:shrug:

Lots of talk about how it isn't really pedophilia, how Foley reminds people of Big Gay Al from South Park, how there's nothing wrong with a 19 year old having sex with a 16 year old, how the problem is Foley's homosexuality, how the whole thing wasn't really sexual anyway, etc.

Of course, those ain't the liberals.

Jeesh...
well I am glad I didn't see those.....

I think the quote was something like "Foley is more of a homosexual than a pedophile."

Yet I do not defend him and have not defended him.
I don't take issue with the fact that he IS a Sexual predator, took advantage of minors, and engaged in appropriate behavior. I don't give a rat's ass whether he's homosexual, bi-sexual, or pansexual. It certainly was sexual, and I hope he gets everything that's coming to him.

But pedophilia is a specific disorder involving attraction to prepubescent and peripubescent individuals. Sexual Predator and/or Sexual Offender says it all for me.

without a trial...

But other than that, I haven't seen much else

The guy was a sexual predator who used his power to frighten children.

Yes..they were children. Yes..he meant to have sex with children.

for. Some people seem a bit too emotionally invested in the matter, if you know what I mean.

Next.

of what you describe. I've seen nothing of the sort since the news broke on Friday.

I think the OP was referring to this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2278542

The OP was not defending him, he was simply saying, as I read it, that we need to parse our words carefully as this, thus far, is not pedophilia. Its a scummy situation but the details should be understood otherwise we wind up losing the focus of the argument.

Reads like a defense to me.

this yet. Every part of it is factual, logical and of sound reasoning. I think the author did a great job expressing the facts without resorting to provocation.

I'm curious as to what parts of it you found so distasteful?

What TN was pointing out in that thread was that:


1. So far, we have seen no solid evidence that Foley committed a crime

PLUS

2. Foley may very well have been very smart and used his knowledge of the law to avoid doing anything prosecutable

WHICH

3. Makes him even more of a creep.


It is that last point which has been lost on so many.

and, of course, that the Rethuglican leadership is as every bit as scummy as we've always known.

is the repeated sexual harassment.

However, I would love for some of this to have occured in Virginia as I think the age of consent there is 18.

L-

If anyone is appalled and disgusted by Foley's alleged behavior more than me, I've yet to see it.

What's that? A 50 year old congressman hitting on 16 year olds? Like I'm supposed to think that's new?

I've finally crossed over from idealism to being ready to cynically use a handed tool to my advantage. I refuse to do so with my eyes closed, is all.

was more circumspect in his e-mails than he was in his instant messages. He obviously knows that records are kept of e-mails and that they can be retrieved even if they're deleted, but I wonder if he believed that IM chatlogs can't be traced, and thus felt freer to get down and dirty using IM.

If so, this shows real calculation on his part to cover his ass in case he got caught, which, as you point out, makes him even more of a creep.

He was not defending Foley's actions, but rather defining the context in a way which is more pragmatic and realistic.

L-

... which I personally feel is the most 'pragmatic.' (I've also known you long enough around here to know you'd - surgically, of course - rip me a new a**hole if you saw that I was going off the reservation. I count on it, actually.)

Laurence O'Donnell said it as well on the Scarborough show in MSNBC. Nobody is served, least of all Democrats, by forming a lynch mob going after Foley. Foley's gone. It's about the House 'Leadership.'

The House Democrats are best served by shining the spotlight onto the willful partisan blindness that may well endanger us all by painting over virulent corruption for political reasons - reasons that include keeping a House seat, keeping FOley's fund-raising (remember the $100,000 bribe/donation to Reynolds!!), hiding an embarassment that heads the Missing and Exploited Children's GOP caucus(!!), and other completely partisan reasons. This is a very easy 'sell' - because it's demonstated as TRUE!! It's very simple: the House pages (and OTHER young people) have continued to be exposed to at least one sexual predator because the GOP failed to act and failed to investigate.

It's Hurricane Foley - they had at least a year or more of a warning and they failed to act!

There was a system in place for handling such behavior by a member. The Republicans who have monocratic control (the minority party has zero say) over the House as a group choose politics and greed instead of prosecuting a fellow party member. It was the Republicans under first Gingrich, then Hastert with the help of Tom Delay who have purposefully and deliberately concentrated all controls into the Speaker and House Majority Leader to better reduce the ability of the House to actually serve the people of the United States, but instead create a defacto "Unitary Executive" role.

Gingrich and Delay have both fallen due to bribery and corruption scandals of which only the top portion was ever uncovered. Hastert was following in their shoes. It is probably great symbolism to note that Hastert and an earlier Speaker, Joe Cannon, bear quite a few similarities. Joe Cannon still is considered the strongest and most authoritarian Speaker ever, and that includes Gingrich.

The Dems would do well to show the evils which have been wrought by these petty tyrants who have subverted House process and rules for their own partisan gain. The House of the People has become the House of the Corrupt. The House of Joe Cannon fell when the Dems finally decided to reveal the underlying malfeasance and corruption done in the name of partisan behavior, it's time that Dems realize people will support them again.






Side Note: I wonder if Delay knew about this as well? I imagine so as his tenure as Majority Leader ended apx. 1 year ago. He had to have known.

The prosecutors should NEVER behave like madmen -- foaming at the mouth. It doesn't inspire confidence.

i think... try RimJobs House of Freepin' Idiots

just what are you talking about .. link please

News to me.............

:popcorn: :popcorn:

I haven't seen one DUer defending Foley. Are you sure?

and I haven't seen anyone defending a 50 plus year old powerful politician sending sexual emails to teens who are interested in a political career.

I have seen some people summarizing what freepers have said. Is it possible the poster has confused the freeper quotes with DU opinion?

of us have said he should be entitled to a fair hearing and/or trial if it comes to that. Others have
suggest he be immediately GITMO'd, as it were.

Who here is defending this slime ball?

Have you lost your collective minds?

If your son or daughter were one of those killed on 9/11, would you still choose to define your non-existant thin moral line between therrorism and habeas corpus, torture, and fair trials?

This country is in dire straights. I won't go into the details.

And the one chance we have to recapture either house of congress, some of you are expending energy apologizing for terrorists?

WHY?

This isn't a swiftboating. These aren't allegations.

These people REJOICED when the towers fell! These people hate us for our freedoms!

We must do what we can to protect our children from those who'd sap their vital juices.

I feel silly making this post. It shouldn't have to be made. I don't even know where to begin.

This really frustrates me about liberals. Get your shit together people.

It's nonsense to give them fair trials!!

___________________________________________________________


Opps... sorry... I thought there was an Internet glitch and this was FreeRepublic.

How original.

WHO THE FUCK IS DEFENDING FOLEY?????????????????????

I have to admit it took a bit longer for my bullshit meter to go off on this one. It's been a long day.

.... defending the douchebag.

Tell ya what - if a post pisses you off why not respond to the fucking post?

stir up a hornet's nest, which, I'm guessing was the point to begin with... Why else would one come to DU (fairly recently) and proceed to call out all of us as being Foley apologists....? Ya know, when I get stung by a single bumble bee, I don't call a nuclear strike on al the hives, nor do I go out and destroy all the wasps...:eyes:

I missed it.

To any Foley supporters:

Now cut that out, both of you!!

I haven't seen it either, however, I've seen NUMEROUS comments from MANYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
DU men who have said repeatedly that there was nothing wrong with Debra LaFave using her authority position over the high school kid in her class and bonking the shit out of him over & over!

And she actually GOT IT ON with the kid, we don't know if el perv Foley officially did, and yet there were DOZENS of men, and a poll, that was very one sided saying there was nothing wrong with her sexually assaulting him (there is such a thing as seductive rape of a child, it's statuatory if I'm correct in my wording)

but, yeah, nothing about Foley being supported that I've seen.

Only that some of us wish she had abused us. Or, more precisely, that we thought she couldn't abuse us. Or, even more precisely, that we would take the abuse and endure it for the sake of our peers, to keep them from harm. That's not the same as "nothing wrong with it."

many men on DU thought it was fine a hot teacher had sex with her 14 yr old student, and wished it was them. nothing else needs said imo.

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Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

DU'ers are actually defending Foley?!! The guy is a pedophile! He's in a political party that always says it is so *moral*, but it's obvious they were lying. The Republicans need to clean up their own lives before they tell us how to live ours.

Tammy

If i could animate DU, i would have a string of birds across the top of the page, representing a fuzzy set of online DU, and these
singing birds would voice on the speaker the words as DU people posted, chirp, chirp, chirp, chirp.

People are misframing each other. people who 'appear' to apologize for foley are merely being very schrewed
in their use of accusatory terms, themslves respectibly softspoken and wiser for it.

However, this being 1 month to a critical juncture to end the bush tyranny,
hasn't anyone ever heard,
Ya' don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

There's a sex ring of republicans in congress.

Maf54: "Do you want me to tongue your ass."
(kid): "oh oh uuuuuuuuhh."
Maf54: "Who rules this planet."
(kid): "You do, big cockman"
Maf54: "Who taught you to talk dirty like that? it makes me hard?"
Maf54: "What are you wearing"
(kid): "Well, nothing right now."
Maf54: "Jesus liked young boys you know."
(kid): "Yaa, i read that part in the bible. Common, you'r making me soft."
Maf54: "Are you hard."

I just can't work my outrage up around it. After having the president made torture decider in chief, I'm a little spent. Tomorrow hopefully a new revelation about how Condi let 9/11 happen. I can hardly wait!

Especially hypocritical ones in a position of power.

Someone new to my Ignore list. Do you feel really big and important being so sneering to people?

You made it to her Ignore list, a very long list that i'm a happy member

:rofl:

you nailed it! Are you an honorary member?

(Must be a forum software bug.) :rofl:

They're always going to be with us.

You know, as sick fucks as they are, there's one thing NAMBLA has to say that I completely agree with: hysteria only makes it worse for victims.

"hysteria only makes it worse for victims."

While it may seem I disclose a lot of personal indofrmation here, I have some firm boundaries. This is truly a core truth - the victims know it, too.

It's funny - we seem to be blind to the parallels between the "custom" (in some Middle Eastern cultures) of killing a rape victim ... and the way we treat victims of sexual abuse in our culture.

Madness.

Is that better? :D

defending Foley... So, in YOUR words, maybe YOU should "get your shit together.." Or are you meaning to just "hit and run?"

Hmmmmm?

You sure you're in the right neighborhood?

:popcorn:

unless he/she/it is a republican on DU pretending to be a Dem or a liberal. Nice try!

There are a vast number of things that Foley is guilty of, and he should be charged, and anyone who enabled him should be investigated and charged as appropriate.

However, calling him a pedophile is incorrect, and pointing that out is not "defending" him or "apologizing" for him.

Hit and run post.

Nice try.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Show me how my perception is skewed.

10 Votes for Greatest? In hell, maybe.

make DU look less than it is.

Its a minutiae level....look for the larger one...who enabled the GOP and Bush to be in POWER?

Look to who lost and who won in the last 6 years....

The American People have lost a lot since the GOP took office/Power.

Not one of the PUBs Plans have born Fruit for the People...not one. They have rolled back environmental policies to allow the rape of our Land. They have raided our treasury, made war for profits by greedy Mil Ind Complex Companies. They made tax breaks for the rich in the middle of a deficit situation...They are raiding the till for gods sake..

Foley is a distraction but an important one. It not about defending the guy, its about the hypocrisy of the GOP.

for why the thread you thought was 'wrong' is not in fact defending Foley. Yes, you did misread it.

Please don't start a new thread to continue an argument from another thread or to call out a DU member or members.