It's never been about your freedom to smoke...

I'm certain the a great majority of DU'ers could care less if people smoke. It's as if the smokers feel that we non-smokers want to take away their right to light up. No.

I think the core of the debate is where you smoke and that's our fundamental difference.

and when they feel it's appropriate for me to smoke.

All of you people who pushed those 'no smoking in public places' laws have done nothing more than move this country closer to the police state it's already becoming.

Thanks for helping out the fascists.

Just my two cents.

Are you that selfish, really?

I don't care when you smoke, but if it's going to affect me, I do care where.

that is causing REAL problems. Smoker's have been demonized in this way, but it's really ridiculous. People have smoked for thousands of years. You should really be more worried about the air you breathe everywhere else, IMO.

than it is to go after institutions and systems.

while I'm not happy with other types of pollution most don't give me a raging headache. It also depends on the brands, different additives give me headaches. Years ago we made my grandmother switch brands and then we were able to stand it - it was just the stench we had to live with.

I'd like perfume guidelines too, some people just bathe in that crap and sinus headaches are killers.

ultimately, you will bring about the demise of the species in your efforts to protect it. The irony is breath-taking.

If you don't like smokey environments, avoid them. It's very simple.

Is it so difficult to step outside or into a designated room to smoke so that all can make their own choices as to where to go?

I don't understand that argument at all.

And I still don't understand why someone would think their habit trumps everyone else's rights. If smoke only affected the smoker, that would be one thing. But it does not.

There's the pollution, and there's also the nasty smell, and the serious effect it can have on people with certain health problems, like asthma.

But some would say "tough luck, I want to smoke"? That's just so inconsiderate, truly.

that isn't what medical researchers say. People have murdered each other for thousands of years too. I am not sure what history has to do with this. Nobody is demonizing smokers, only their noxious habit. Does it really define who you are?

People have not smoked the way we do for thousands of years anyway. Our current system is part of a profitable system of mass marketing and mass production. It seems pretty simple that your right to smoke meets my right to avoid smoke, and I'm happy that my side seems to be in the majority.

poison ,I am not Strong, Smart,or scared enough to control on my own.I refuse to defend something with not one redeeming or beneficial quality ,just because I do it.

is being selfish. :eyes:

Again, if you don't like smokey environments, don't hang out there.

Because, again, your desire to imbibe trumps my desire to live without the results of your habit?

You really have a twisted way of looking at this.

You make a choice. I'd say an unwise one. And I'm supposed to limit my life in order to accomodate your bad choice?

If your bad choice was wearing too much purple eyeshadow, then sure, I'd have to put up with it. It doesn't really impact me. But your bad choice has a negative impact on everyone around you. You can't see that?

Do you also think that we shouldn't attempt to limit the "rights" of someone to drink to excess and then get behind the wheel?

It's not about you. It's about what happens when your choices affect other people.

that is the crux of my annoyance with smokers who shout "what about my rights"

I don't care if they smoke

just don't do it where I have to inhale it

it makes me sick- sinuses, asthma, allergies

it makes my clothes and hair stink

it is just disgusting

but if someone wants to smoke in their home (not around kids but only those who don't mind) or outside, or wherever, that is their business

and this "let's talk about real pollution" is a line of b.s.

we're talking about smoking!

Thanks JGCT

If you're smoking in a place where I am forced to inhale your smoke then it becomes a matter of you forcing your addiction on me and impacting my health. Then it becomes my business.

That you choose to waste money on an addiction that will ultimately kill you is your business. Don't jeopardize my health in the process.

And before you rail on me, you should know that my father passed away on October 4th. Causes of death listed on the autopsy were: Esophageal cancer (primary), lung cancer (metastases from esophageal cancer), and emphysema ... all caused 100% by smoking. It was his own damn fault.

I'm not even going to get into this smoking/non-smoking battle, but I am going to tell you that that's a pretty piss poor "debating" technique there - to use the death of your father to inoculate yourself from disagreement or criticism.

"his own damn fault"? nice.

It's just that simple.

I really despise 'family' type events, so I avoid them like the plague. If you non-smokers would have just done that instead of whining like a bunch of babies about a hot button topic that will ultimately do nothing for your health in the long run, we would have gotten along just fine.

:eyes:

he would have died of something.

:eyes:

:shrug:

She ultimately died of esophogeal cancer. She had to have her tongue amputated early on in the process because that is where the cancer first appeared. This woman was a newspaper reporter. She could not talk well for the remaining years of her life. She was put to work as a copyeditor, but it hurt her not to be able to report and write. It was an ugly death.

I would have preferred for her to have died of heart failure at a ripe old age. She died in her mid-50s.

Being so defensive is really beneath you. I am disappointed.

They can make cigarettes safer if they want to.

health, I was all for banning smoking on planes, busses etc. I remember being in my grandparents car as a kid on our way to Florida from Ohio, chocking the whole way.

As reports came out linking second hand smoke to disease, I was also concerned and believed them at face value, I have no problem going outside to smoke when I am at a restaurant, nor should anyone.

But reports then started claiming absurd crap, second hand smoke more dangerous than smoking, etc. What, am I not second hand smoking my own exhalation the same as a non-smoker? That one right there made me question the validity of most of the second hand smoke data.

I'm sure you can link to twenty or more reports of second hand smoke killing non-smokers, and I can link to just as many reports of alien abduction. Neither will prove jack.

What it comes down to for me is this, If a property owner wants to allow smoking in his establishment then his property rights should not be violated. He paid the taxes on the property, the smokers paid their "Sin" taxes to buy the material that is a legally traded commodity, and no one is dragged in of the street to be subjected to second hand smoke against their will. Vote with you dollars, like I do.

Well said. I am sick of being looked upon as though I have leprosy, because I smoke and do not invade others rights, I never smoke around others that do not smoke themselves. I always go outside to smoke, even in my own house , so as to not expose others who visit to the smoke. But I still get the looks from others, those who have never smoked to those who have quit, of being the worst person in the world.

It is likely due, in part, to two decades of second hand smoke when I was young. Both parents, most uncles, and a live in grandfather.

I was the one who washed the gook off the walls every six months. Even at age 10, I knew the same sticky tar substance was inside of me too.

I didn't get a vote in it, didn't get to decide, didn't get to object. Now, you will have a damned tough time convincing me you or anybody else has a right to pollute my lungs in the places we must share to do commerce.

Thanks for helping out the addicts who won't accept that THEIR problem should not be EVERYONE's problem.

It isn't fascism to expect others to not be allowed to poison us.

I lived in a home for my first 12 years where both parents smoked.

I had virtually constant lung infections, problems, coughing.

After my parents quit, it took a YEAR for my lungs to clear up.

I had recurrent bouts of bronchitis as a kid. Since they quit, nothing. I don't cough up shit unless I've been sick, unlike my childhood years.

My experience tells me that NO, you shouldn't have the right to smoke near non-smokers, because your smoke DOES negatively impact the health of those around you.

I've put up with enough secondhand smoke, I think I should have the right to NOT have to breathe it in public places.

Increasing the fascist state? I think it's pretty f'ing invasive to force non-smokers to breathe in your shit, just because you don't want to be inconvenienced.

:rant:

We non-smokers have rights too. And I think that is the point. Plus, there are more of us...

Mob rule. Might makes right. The proclamation of populist tyrants through the ages. The kind of moral bankruptcy that makes me glad I'm a liberal - even more than I'm a democrat.

:puke:

It's not mob rule. It is a majority.

Smoking = :puke:

I am a progressive. Your moral bankruptcy makes me think I should just join Sinn Fein.

don't issue that sort of 'moral' judgement. Paisley seems more up your alley.

:rofl:

not to dictate your taste.

If you don't like a smokey environment, don't go to places where there is smoke.

It's pretty simple, really.

I AVOID going places where there is smoke. There are times that it is unavoidable.

that's just duckey.

It ain't ducky to all the asthmatics in my family.

None of us smokes.

In your view, smoky is the default and those who don't like it can lump it.

I'd say non-smoky is the default, and those who insist on changing that to smoky are limited as to where they may do so.

Enjoy away in the privacy of your own car or living room. I'll be quite content to avoid those places. But don't expect that everyone must bend to your habit in a public space. Once you've exhaled that junk, you've affected the air of everyone around you. What in the world gives you such a right?

That's exactly it. People don't mind being told to drive on the right side of the street, and not to drive on sidewalks. Cuz doing that can hurt other people. Same f*ing thing. Waaaaahhhhh, the govt TELLS me to drive on the right!!!!!!

for being inflammatory... :eyes: I give up.

Maybe focus your field of diversity on 3 things and not so many? My only guess.

is what I will do after this post. I had no idea till tonight, about this 'smokers' attack. Divide and try to Conquer anyone?!
Laymo!

I used to bowl but I don't anymore because of all the smoke in the air.

Smoke if you want but not around me.

I see no reason why they cannot regulate air quality in them as well. After all, they inspect the premises to make sure there are no bugs or rats or whatever. And new buildings are often built with no windows that actually open, so it would make sense that no one could smoke in those, since there would be no recourse from the smoke.

I don't really care if people want to poison themselves but I do object to being subjected to it myself. My mom has smoked for 40 years (which is why I hate it so much) and it will kill her. There's not a damn thing I can do about it, since she refuses to listen to reason and quit.

Of all the evil corporations out there, tobacco companies are by far the most evil. Worse even than Wal-Mart. They know what they are doing to hook people, to ensure customers for life. My fervent hope is that they are all driven out of business. And soon before too many more people die from their evil.

" My fervent hope is that they are all driven out of business. And soon before too many more people die from their evil. "

pardon the pun, but the government will not give up the tax revenue. It is one of the largest legal unaportioned taxes they have.

:shrug:

the fact that they are damaging to health seals it.

go do whatever you want as long as it's legal, doesn't victimize others and doesn't adversely affect me . . .

sheesh. I can't believe I'm wasting bandwidth on a frigging smoking thread when king george's secret police could kick down my door and disappear me at any moment.

have the government remove the so called "Sin" taxes on tobacco then, since our rights have been laid waste?

There are many things that we are not allowed to do in public places or certain public places. Just because it has been acceptable in the past to smoke everywhere doesn't mean that people should smoke everywhere. Really there are a lot of other things that are prohibited in restaurant besides smoking but people aren't complaining about those things.

How about Movie theaters, offices, etc.... Does a cig smoker feel they have a right to smoke where ever they want? I just don't get this?

I think we've taken the smoking threads about as far as they can go.

best,
wakemeupwhenitsover
DU Moderator