Iraqi, arrested by US, relates an amazing dialogue with one Marine

This dialogue is reported by Qaasem, a 20-year-old correspondent for Alive in Baghdad as he relates his arrest on September 26, when his neighborhood was the site of a number of sniper attacks on US forces. Below, he's just been taken on foot to a house next to the neighborhood mosque (Qasem is blindfolded, but he can tell where he is by the sounds and following the map in his head). The whole story makes for fascinating, if disturbing reading. One on ones like this can't be helping the US's position with the people of Iraq:



http://aliveinbaghdad.org/2006/10/18/qasems-first-day-of-arrest-continued/

it is about 3:30 am …I was sitting on the ground ….and hearing sound of big generator …..very noisy

One marine talked to me

“You speak English …right ??’”

“Yes” I said ….after he made me notice that he talking with me by putting his finger on my head

” I like to talk with you …it is the first time for me to meet a prisoner who can speak English” he said ……I kept silent.

“Why are your people killing Americans …we came here to make Iraq a good civilized country? ” he said.

“I did not see any civilized thing happened in Iraq made by Americans …..tell me why you came to Iraq …sure you have a reason to fight in Iraq and risk your life and use your guns??” I asked him.

“Your people started the killing …when they helped the terrorists to attack the twin towers in New York on 9 /11 …..many civilian Americans were killed because of that ….we were scared ..so that we have to stop those bad terrorists before they do it again ” he answered.

“But Iraq had no relation with this at all ” I said

“No ..you’re wrong …Iraqis helped the terrorists ….we know this ..so then we came here”

“Sorry ..I have to say that you’re wrong ……your Congress made sure that you have wrong information ..and Iraq has no bonds with Terrorists crimes …..” I said

“Well ….my job is a soldier ..I am not a politician …my job is killing and arresting terrorists that are hiding in your town” he said

“Do you think I am terrorist ??” I asked him

“Well …military intelligence will make sure ….I do not know …” he said

“Why Americans wasting Billions in Iraq to make enemies ….they can use them to make friends and peace ??” I asked him

“No … we have friends in Iraq ….our friends are giving us the needed information that help to arrest the bad people such as you” he said

“Me ??!! ….You just said now that you are not sure if I bad or not …but you seems sure now ” I said with surprise

“I am sure that you are here for a real reason ” he said

“I will tell the main reason ….it is because marines found a computer in my house and because I write blogs in english for peaceful Americans ” I said

“So ..you have ability to make websites for terrorists …that makes you more suspected ” he said

“What is your job?? ” he asked me

” I was engineer …now I am jobless ” I said

“Wow ….what kind of engineering work ?? ” he asked

“Basically I am a mechanical engineer ” I answered

“That means you can make bombs and improve guns for terrorists …yes ..sure you did so” he said

“Hey hey …wait….you judge me because I am mechanical engineer ?? what you will think if you knew that I worked in construction field ..and I have good experience in civil engineering and buildings ??” I said

“That’s more worse ….you can make maps of the streets and the places and give it to the terrorists ” he said

“So engineer is very suspected person for marines ?? ” I asked him

“Mostly yes ….they can do many things that help terrorists ” he said

“Ok …I have friend whom arrested few months ago ……he is doctor…..do suspect doctors too ” I asked him

“For sure….terrorists could be injured during fighting us ..and sure there are doctors who take care of them and provide them with medical help” he said

“Let me tell you this …..you suspect educated people ….and arrest them because they are doctors or engineers …so, shall I believe that you will help Iraq to be civilized country ???!! ” I said

“You should believe this …..in your city there are terrorists ….and we are here to kill them …..yesterday, my friend was injured when we got mortar attacks here in this house ….and he lost his hand …..for sure there is a fucking Iraqi engineer drawing a map for terrorists and help them to attack us and cut my friend’s hand ……” he said ..he seems getting upset

“Now stop talking …..” he said to me ….

Less informed than Fox News viewers.

Uninformed would be an improvement.

he sounds like my nephew marine. A totally ignorant gun happy little warrior. :puke:

You'll find the same 'demographics' that you'll find in the civilian population.

That's an insult to all veterans, including me.

It's far tooooo easy to manipulate the unitelligent and uneducated. They buy everything they're told. Scary shit.

I sometimes wonder if our strict adherence to a "volunteer" military (ahem) is an effort to insure a lesser educated soldier.

:eyes:

"He's five feet two and he's six feet four
He fights with missiles and with spears
He's all of 31 and he's only 17
He's been a soldier for a thousand years

He's a Catholic, a Hindu, an atheist, a Jain,
a Buddhist and a Baptist and a Jew
and he knows he shouldn't kill
and he knows he always will
kill you for me my friend and me for you

And he's fighting for Canada,
he's fighting for France,
he's fighting for the USA,
and he's fighting for the Russians
and he's fighting for Japan,
and he thinks we'll put an end to war this way

And he's fighting for Democracy
and fighting for the Reds
He says it's for the peace of all
He's the one who must decide
who's to live and who's to die
and he never sees the writing on the walls

But without him how would Hitler have
condemned him at Dachau
Without him Caesar would have stood alone
He's the one who gives his body
as a weapon to a war
and without him all this killing can't go on

He's the universal soldier and he
really is to blame
His orders come from far away no more
They come from him, and you, and me
and brothers can't you see
this is not the way we put an end to war."

Even if it is it seems close enough to reality to explain why most Iraqis want the US/UK Troops and Mercs out of their country. The US/UK are making enemies out of people that were not enemies before they Occupied their country a killed around 6000,000 to bring this so called democracy.

Not that I can claim to know for certain one way or the next, but this exchange sounds fake and reads fake. "Dumb american vs. enlightened prisoner". Has a very "parable" feel to it... Sort of like a Chick tract without the bad art and religious overtones.

Kind of hard to imagine a Chick tract without bad art and religious overtones for one thing. ;)

What about seems faked? Haven't we all had stories told to us in which the teller is a hero, probably making him/herself a little more heroic and wise than he/she was in reality?

It's the "making himself look heroic", and the attendant "making the other guy look like a caveman" that makes me doubt it.

But as I said, I wasn't there.

Open your eyes, man - soldiers ain't saints.

And that's a military brat saying that!

I'm saying this account seems fabricated, or at least "poeticly enhanced" by the writer. What it does is turn the two people involved into archetypes, for the purpose of getting a point across. Do our soldiers do this sort of thing? Yeah, probably so. Is it this concise, clear-cut, and perfectly drawn between two sides? No. This story reads like a parable, condensing things into simple idioms and archetypes, to get a moral or message across. The message? "We're not all guilty".

As I said (twice), it may have happened, I was not there. I'm saying the style of writing makes me feel that the story is probably not a factual account of this person's own experience.

I guess we'll never know, though.

with a person he thinks is a terrorist by saying, "Now stop talking" It would be a lot more believable if there were lots of cursing and the conversation ended with shut the f*ck up. It is definitely one-sided and I'm not buying that either. As you noted, far too clear-cut and precise.

You know there are far worse cases than this one and it really bothers me to see things that are probably made up because it takes away from the legitimate argument of how people are really treated, but I understand the point this guy is making.

just because it doesn't fit your conception of what a "real" conversation would be like? What, besides your gut feeling, suggests this isn't a report based on a real occurrence? Please help me understand.

can know for certain. I know a lot of people in the military and many of them have served in Iraq. One of them is my husband. I know that they are breaking rules if they have any kind of conversation like that with a potential "terrorist." If these marines are arresting this person because they are a potential "terrorist" then they don't have a conversation with them. The person would be questioned by the appropriate people and some marine who picked them up shouldn't be having any kind of conversation with them before they are officially questioned. Also, people in the military are known for their "colorful" language even when speaking pleasantly to friends. I find it very hard to believe that a marine that has just picked up someone that is a suspected "terrorist" would have had a political conversation with this person at all, but especially with such nice language. Also, as the other person I was replying to pointed out, this is far too clear-cut. It sounds very scripted to me.

Why do you believe it is a real occurrence?

...taking into account that some people exaggerate their poise, wit, etc., when talking about their arguments with others. I find it hard to believe that all people in the military would behave the same way in a given circumstance.

I wrote to the people who publish this blog to ask them their take on Qasem. I have yet to receive a reply, which makes me think I probably won't be getting one. I don't know if it's real. It seems like it would be helpful to know what they think of it.

circumstances would follow the rules since they would be with other marines, possibly superiors.

I almost hate to say this, but I feel like Qasem's experience is too nice to have taken place as well. If these marines think this guy might be a terrorist, I would worry he would be treated even worse and I doubt any marine would bother to have a conversation with him or care about his thoughts at all.

It's impossible to know if it's real, but if you receive a reply from the blog, please let me know. While it might not convince me one way or another about the validity of this occurrence, I would be very open and interested in reading it.

But now that three days have passed, I really don't think I'll be getting one.

Just to be clear, I'm agnostic about whether this incident really occurred.


PS: I just checked my e-mail box and I did receive a reply from the director of Alive in Baghdad who vouches for Qasem, while admitting that he can't know for sure if the story is true. But he says he's worked with Qasem for several months, there are video reports by him on the site, and he was uncharacteristically out of communication during the time he says he was arrested.

He appears on the site in some of the videos, incidentally.

... and some of the interviews from Fahrenheit 9/11, I don't find this exchange all that implausible. The Baghdad citizens seemed far more well-informed, pre-invasion, than our fellow citizens. They were fairly certain an invasion was coming, regardless of what the Bush Admin was spinning, and were universal in their belief that is was because of their oil.

Romans knew this over 2,000 years ago!

You need specially trained and specially educated forces, and savvy political operatives, to enlist local cooperation and minimize rebellion, and to maintain civil order, safety, and trade for everyone's sake. And the Bushites have done just the opposite at every turn.

But I don't think it's a matter of the incompetence of the Bush Junta. I think there is something delilberate and diabolical about putting ordinary soliders in this impossible position.

Why?

Especially when all the costs come from others.

... in order for their crony corporations to get dibs on Iraqi oil and related contracts, ahead of Russia and France, and knew they couldn't convince the American population to come along if it required a larger force. So they went in with what force they could, and sealed their failure.

to make sure every iota of information is turned around to serve the purpose of invading, occupying and destroying iraqis and their entire nation.

This is incredibly sickening. The same dialogue must have occurred between nazis and jews; I have no doubt at all, whatsoever.

in which the Marine tells Qasem that his buddy lost a hand. That's the kind of experience that really tests a person's capacity for cross-cultural empathy. And someone with this Marine's level of sophistication is most likely not going to pass that test.

For precisely this purpose.

To prevent biased, prejudiced or corrupted officials from handing out whatever justice they deem "appropriate".

THIS is what habeus corpus, defense lawyers and proper rules of evidence are supposed to prevent.

Now, there is no such protection at all.

person of any nation, including ours.

... an ordinary exchange isn't really worth retelling. I'm an agnostic on the veracity of this exchange, but definitely believe it's possible. (link)

No way a soldier and suspected terrorist have this kind of exchange...at least I highly doubt it.

<snip>

there house attacked with SONIC hand bombs after midnight …and they did not know why they arrested yet !!!!

The more you try to prove your innocence, the worse your case becomes...
and if you just keep your mouth shut, you get tortured until you 'tell the truth'.

I am so fucking proud of my species. MAJOR :sarcasm:

Even "animals" don't pull this kind of shit...
it takes humans to come up with the real abominations. :cry: :puke:

I can believe that the essence of it is pretty accurate for the most part, as a generalization.

Sad that those guys get Rush Limpball on the radio and not Air America.

I hope he isn't representative.

after 4 more tours of duty in Iraq.

How did he tell this story? Did he escape? Did they release him? It doesn't say.

This is the first day of his arrest. Presumably there will be more.

The first ones that have to be true believers of the propaganda are the ones doing your dirty work for you.

Is it any wonder the Jarhead risking his life has to think Iraq had something to do with 9/11?

The amazing trick is the self-deception one engages in even after the facts are on the table refuting everything that was used to invade the country.

because of 9-11. They must take some of the responsibility for being purposefully ignorant. They were not drafted.

We are so screwed

the film three kings.
the misinformed solider
trying to rationalize
the mayhem and destruction
they have caused,
in the name of "liberty" or the "war on terror"

The clipped pidgin english is what set my radar off.

Plus even your average grunt/jarhead knows that you need far LESS education than a civil engineer to make maps of local terrain/city streets.

I get the idea of this 'parable' and the point is valid, but it is a rather clumsy caricature of an american service member

I wrote to ask if they would. They say he was missing for a couple of days, which was unlike him. He's been a reliable reporter for five months.

Furthermore, the Committee for the Protection of Journalists and Reporters without Borders are both investigating this case.

I'm doubting some aspects of the exchange

when Qaasem was 17 he was a Mechanical Engineer? I wonder where in Ramadi he was captured. The conversation reads more like scripted dialouge, I can only assume the marine who speaks with Qaasem is supposed to be a CI guy probing for intel and not some random Motor T marine on guard duty...

This site may or may not be propaganda but I for one don't pit any stock in it...