My repub Bro can't even discuss Iraq now, his daughter is going there.

Over the last few family get togethers we all discuss this and that over coffee, me and my mom and dad lifelong Democrats, he a born again republican. He voted for bush twice and has told me privately he regrets it, mainly because of Iraq.

And now his 30 year old daughter, my niece is going there in the spring, into the mouth of the beast.

He never mentioned Iraq or his daughter even once the other day in the restaurant. His wife encouraged my niece to join the Army, he tried to dissuade her, but supports her, I know it's eating him up inside, and I wish I could ease his worry, but I am just glad it isn't my own son or daughter, I'd be absolutely falling apart.

They raised their two kids to adult hood as born again Christians, home schooled, protected from the rest of the kids at the evil public schools. The son is a liberal, the daughter like the father and mother. The politics of nation and family are on painful display.

My brother and I can talk over coffee, but only if he behaves, and keeps his religious and political zealotry to himself, if he sways from that strict path, I counterattack and will not suffer his bullshit gladly. But now even that rivalry has been dampened by the awful dread, of his only daughter going to Iraq.

It's all just so fucking sad.

What more can I say? It is so sad. I have a friend in Baghdad and a nephew in Guantanamo as a prison guard. Thanks a lot George. Why don't you send your daughters to Baghdad???

Sorry to hear that your niece is going and the twins are not.

How many more?

My Brother-law is a born again Christian also and a life time republican. At one point my husband was out of work and was going to join the national guard. My Brother law a so called born again Christian had told my husband that he shouldn't join that he was better than that. I was furious to say the least you have to understand my Brother law he is extremely wealthy. My family has a long list of vets and never had anything handed to us as he has. My point is that they willing to send others to war but not there own. Lucky to say my husband found a job before he could sign up. For me I try to be a a good Christian and I am trying very hard to forgive my Bother-law for his remark to my husband. I really feel for you and will have your niece in my prayers.

Man o man, saying that to a family with a long military history is just too, too snooty.

My family too has photos of ancestors going back to the civil war and they wouldn't take a comment like that lightly.

They think the military is for "losers". It is the biggest problem with the vaunted all volunteer force, IMO. There is no feeling of investment in it among greater America, there is only the poor and the lower middle class, who as a rule are involved, with the exception of a few uber-patriots, such as Pat Tillman.

I know of several families which have been irrevocably broken by the slash & burn campaign tactics of the right, including my own. My extended family, my closest friends will not talk to me anymore. We served together, for Chrissakes, but now, they won't have anything to do with me. All because they fell for the Bush line. They avoid me entirely and badmouth me as "liberal" is the word I get from mutual acquaintances.

But I will hope for the best for your Niece, Phil. I can't pray, as you know so I subscribe to the viewpoint that so many people have died in the name of Christ I can't believe at all, so my prayers would be worse than worthless.

There are a lot of people on DU, and on the left in general, who would see an instance like this and say "I told you so" smugly. That is just as cruel and heartless as anything an O'Reilly or Limbaugh would say.

The whole incident is cruel because this guy's brother had only understood Bush and the war through symbology, hype and propaganda. It wasn't "real" to him. The media kept it from being "real" to him; there's no Cronkites any more.

Now, the reality of what he supported is hitting him in the face. Worse, now that he knows the truth, he can't tell it, none of his old conservative friends will believe it, and if he makes an issue of it, the Limbaughs of the world will attack him as a "turncoat" or a "flip-flopper."

It is a hell the guy was warned about, but kept charging into. It is unfortunte that he had to learn this way. But it certainly isn't a situation to gloat about.

I have 3 nephews in service all have been to Iraq and for now all are back in the USA.
They are all born again Christians and all voted for *, Not me, I walked miles for Gore & Kerry!
My favorite saying at this time to them and all who feel that Lord prissy pants Bush is the New God is simply this " My Lord and Master does not hold a political affiliation, Not a R, D, or I before or after his name and He said "Thou shalt Not Kill" period, that includes the children being slaughter in Iraq!
It keeps them all in check and I'm beginning to see changes of opinions, but it has taken a long time !