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PistolSteve Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:44 PM
Original message
"the math" scares the shit out of me
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 12:55 PM by PistolSteve
MR. ROVE: Yeah. Look, I'm looking at all these Robert and adding them up. And I add up to a Republican Senate and a Republican House. You may end up with a different math, but you're entitled to your math. I'm entitled to "the" math.


EDIT: http://www.solarbus.org/blog/061030.rovemath.shtml

Seriously, I am paranoid. I do think the Republicans have a little bit of momentum on their side (many of them got angry at their base but when it comes down to it, they may still vote GOP), but not enough to take the house. NUMEROUS polls show dems at anywhere from 224-230 seats (an easy majority).

Look, when Bush says he is confident that the GOP will win, that's one thing. But when Rove makes a statement like this, he must have SOMETHING up his sleeve. Can he really orchestrate a country-wide electronic voting scam? Oh dear god...
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King Coal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
1. You're not paranoid. It's gonna happen.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Agreed. Hence why we need to vote is such huge numbers that no
one could deny the election was stolen.
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sportndandy Donating Member (710 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
17. ROTFLMAO!!! There is no number big enough that would prevent
the stealing of an election.

My question is: what will we do when the steal it in spite of massive voter turnout? Probably the same thing as 2004, when the imaginary "values voter" came out of the hills to vote. If the media don't cover it, then it didn't happen.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. I never said that. I said enough voters to make it OBVIOUS it was stolen
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. How is it obvious, when they simply claim the votes were for their
side?

If the machines say it broke 53/47 for repugs instead of 53/47 for the dems, and the total votes is still the same, how do we prove it wrong?

With no verifiable paper ballots and no automatic recount for any vote within a 10% margin, there's no way to prove fraud. And they know it.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. I think more people are awake to the election fraud issue. If the exit
polls show us winning by a huge margin and the Rs declare victory, I think we'll see something happen. I don't know exactly what will happen but I do know that there were just a few voices right after 2004 was stolen, my voice included, who were ridiculed by many as sour grape conspiracy theorists. People aren't saying that much any longer. There will be a MUCH louder outcry after 2006, partly due to the fact that the DNC chair is Howard Dean who on MSNBC WALKED US THROUGH hacking the votes and showing how vulnerable the machines are. He knows which end is up and I have faith he'll fight.
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cautiouslywaiting Donating Member (243 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
43. I hope we actually do something this time.
I was so disappointed by the reaction to the 2004 election. There was a lot of noise but it all lead to nothing. We didn't hold them accountable. We have to act this time.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-31-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
64. This is my big question too - what will we do about it this time?
Are we gonna just sit down and mumble about it amongst ourselves again??
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. Why else would Bush and Rove be so smug!
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freeplessinseattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 02:37 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. wild guess. they're psychopaths. even while being arrested
they would look smug bc they are the personality type that can never allow any weakness or humility to show.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
45. The whole "The Math" comment was meant to psyche us out...
KKKarl is just playing mind games, and exploiting the fact we think elections have been stolen in hopes that he can depress our base turnout in the same way his own base is being depressed by the Republican's fuck-ups.

He is a very convincing actor, but don't let his act fool you. Here is trying to freak you and I and all Democrats out.

If you don't think you can win, then there is no reason for you to. You have imagine reality before it happens, he is trying to crush our imaginations which could inspire us to work extra hours and bring out the few extra votes we need to ensure uttermost victory.
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Epiphany4z Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. It make me nervous too
but what the hell is he gona say......OMG WE ARE GONA LOOSE WE ARE GONNA LOOSE!!!!!!

Just get your butt out and vote...and take someone with you so they can vote...like someone said..MAKE THEM STEAL IT.
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PistolSteve Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I don't expect them to admit loss, but...
when Rove says he is looking at "the math" it seriously scares me to an extent I cannot describe. If he was making broad statements like Bush is, I wouldn't be too worried - but he seems FAR too confident.
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Is this one of those "WE'RE DOOMED!!!" threads?
It's been a long time since the last one.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. No, it's one of those reality based threads. n/t
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PistolSteve Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #5
34. You're right, DU isn't a place to talk about election fears...
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
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joeunderdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
35. Just every 2 years...oh, and they've been right every time.
It'd be one thing if the results made it all look like Chicken Little Politics, but no such luck.
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #35
47. have you noticed a difference this year? i.e. it's not 50-50, it's a 61-35 blowout?
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
37. LOL.
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luckyleftyme2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. THE PLOY IS SIMPLE
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 12:54 PM by luckyleftyme2
PLANT MIS-INFORMATION ABOUT THE REAL FEEL OF THE VOTERS;AND LIKE SHEEP THE FLOCK WILL RETURN!
HOW TO STOP IT-YELL GO DEMOCRATS,LETS GET ANGRY,LETS TAKE BACK THE HOUSE,AND WHILE WERE AT IT THE SENATE TOO!
GO DEMOCRATS,SEND ROVE AND RUMMY A XMAS GIFT,A PAID VACATION IN CROW BAR HOTEL!

GO DEMOCRATS GO!
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
4. It's a head game. They are trying to keep the Reps from losing
the will to vote. Rove is known for his putting forward a winning attitude.

Throw it back in his face. We are winners, we will win.
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PistolSteve Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #4
13. With respect to Rove, his winning attitude has never been wrong...
that's what scares me the most... especially when he talks about 'math'. Rove is a smart guy and I can't see him hurting his reputation by making statements that the facts say are far from correct.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
25. don't let them kill your buzz. Volunteer today and work like
a demon.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #13
36. Do you expect him to take the air out of the few
successful Republican campaigns. If he says they are going to lose, Republicans will stay home.

Remember, they are Straussians, lying is seen as a necessary for the ruling elite.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #36
48. Plus, if he says they are going to win in a "scary"sort of way -
he can always hope a few conspiracy-minded dems with a delicate sensibility might just tailspin into depression and/or paranoia and just STAY HOME and NOT VOTE!

He knows he's gonna lose. He's just having a little fun with us as he goes down, it can't hurt (him).
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. he's fucking with our heads.
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #13
38. you think he's worried about his reputation? he's boosting morale, what's left of it.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-31-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
63. Of course his winning attitude has never been wrong.
He's never won a fair electionright back to when he was a Young Republican. He's always managed to achieve victory by lying and cheating. This time around though, people are on to him.
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nebula Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. can Rove openly organize a nationwide voting machine scam?

almost every state in the country has Rove's electronic voting machines in place.

at this point it wouldn't be too hard to pull it off.

with all those diebold machines in place and harldy anyone in the media talking about it, I would be very surprised at this point if they didn't try to steal it (there's no doubt in my mind that they will).
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. I've already voted and trust all here will vote. But I'm afraid you're right. NT
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. I didn't think so until my Governor Groper forced my elected and
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 01:03 PM by Cleita
Democratic SOS out of office, who had decertified the E-voting machines because of their uncertain reliability, on rather flimsy charges of corruption, and replaced him with a Republican appointee who immediately recertified the E-voting machines. So if the installation of E-voting machine friendly SOSs has been done in enough key states, I think it's possible.

I think if we mobilize enough angry citizens from the grassroots, we should demand hand recounts immediately after the results are in where the numbers are close, like 51% to 49%.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
55. same thing here! oh wait, you're in CA too.
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garybeck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. HERE'S THE VIDEO of Rove admitting he has THE math
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 12:57 PM by garybeck
http://www.solarbus.org/blog/061030.rovemath.shtml
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. Dunno, but certain 'wedge' issues won't help the Dems' cause either...
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 01:08 PM by HypnoToad
some have already been used.

There's a week left.

And no doubt somebody, who cares which side starts it, will have no qualms bringing one up feeling oh-so-sure the Dems will take everything over (or, conversely, the repubs stir things up just to cajole uncertain voters over 'the greater evil' issue...)

Regardless, the losing side will whine after the election, citing election fraud and ropey electronic machines...
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. The Math has a fudge factor, which involves:
1) minority vote suppression via intimidation, threats and othe disenfranchisement

and

2) fundie turnout.

Since there is deep depression right now over the fundie bunch, I don't see 2) working. 1) will work to a degree, but without 2), the Math comes SHORT. They ain't gonna take this one from us, not this time.
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PistolSteve Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
15. If electronic voting gives repubs a 1.5% swing, that's all they would need
to take the house and it would be hard to prove.
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Mugu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #15
32. Some of the pundits are already preparing excuses
for the polling data to not match the results. For instance, claiming that many African-Americans would never admit to voting Republican to a pollster, but once in the voting booth nobody will ever know.


Regards,

Mugu
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
39. please explain your math. Democratic candidates are WAY ahead in many races.
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sharp_stick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
16. Having you afraid is exactly what the prick wants
Rove would like nothing better than to convince even a small fraction of dedicated democrats to stay home on the 7th. I'd bet my last dollar that that fucking weasel is doing his level best to suppress the democratic vote in a few key districts by "mistakenly" making weird statements like "I have the math".

The only way to shut that pig up is to go vote and make him bloody irrelevant.
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PistolSteve Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Already voted - and no electronic voting machines here :)
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T Town Jake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
20. I think we'll take the House, GOP will just barely...
...keep the Senate on tie-breaker from Cheney. Just my prediction.

As for the electronic voting scam, we use paper ballots state wide where I'm at, so at least one state won't be apart of any such scheme. :)
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. What kind of paper ballot? Optical scan?
Did you know that the optical scan ballots are counted by Diebold tabulators?
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Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. You do understand, of course...
...that the whole purpose of statements like Rove's is to demoralize the opposition. Right, that'd be us.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. Hmm. I think he's also sending a message to his camp that
the fix is in, so not to worry. I believe it's really important for them to remain in power now because if they lose control of the House and/or Senate, the dirty dealings they have been up to stand a good chance of being subpoenaed and published for all to see and that could lead to indictments, trials and prison for them.

They will do any desperate actions including cheating on the election to make sure this doesn't happen.
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PistolSteve Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #24
28. Exactly
That's what I'm worried about... ughh I hate that know in my stomach
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #24
46. paranoia is not going to help us get out the vote
This is not helpful at all - can we keep up the positive thinking then worry about the consequences next Wed if there are surprises?
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #46
56. There are going to be "surprises". And we have to do something. I don't think
discussing it is a bad thing. We all know we cannot stop our GOTV and election protection.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-31-06 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #46
61. Well, I think it's better to foresee and correct a problem before
it happens.
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #21
40. exactly.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2916201&mesg_id=2916201
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
52. Bravo!

:applause::applause::applause:
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virgdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
22. There's an piece over at Firedoglake.com
that I think you all should read. It addresses the Art of the Bluff. Rove is very skilled at using head games against his opponents, and has done so for years. It is his primary MO. I believe that Rove is bluffing with a very bad hand. It is all that he has, what with the scandals swirling around the White House and Republicans. Instead of sitting around quaking in our boots, get out and help your local candidates, call for Moveon.org's Call for Change, or canvass your neigborhood. Sitting around moaning and groaning accomplishes nothing. Stay positive and work like hell.
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Strelnikov_ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. And 'Genius'? Not Quite
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/29/AR2006102900753.html

Associates say Rove is privately frustrated that individual candidates have not been more aggressive in drawing contrasts with Democrats on national security. In Buffalo, Rove dished out red meat with relish, pausing in the middle of an attack on Democrats for their votes against Bush's anti-terrorism policies to needle Senate Democratic Leader Harry M. Reid for a recent controversy in Nevada. "You may have read about his land swaps," Rove noted dryly.

. . .

But there is little evidence that White House political efforts on Iraq have worked as Rove had hoped. Rove this summer signaled his desire that the war could be neutralized or even turned into an asset for Republican candidates who cast Democrats as defeatist. Instead, many candidates have been distancing themselves from Bush on the war. And while Bush in 2004 showed he could lose independent voters and still win the election, this year's polls show swing voters even more powerfully against the GOP.

"It has been clear for a long time that the independents are consolidating a view that is very anti-the-Bush-administration, very anti-the-Iraq-war," said Ruy Teixeira, a joint fellow at the liberal Center for American Progress and the Century Foundation. "Maybe they were believing their press clippings that all they need is their base."


A theft in 2000.
Saber rattling/fear in 2002.
More saber rattling/fear in 2004.

No. Not a genius. Just another GOP cockroach.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
41. Rove tries to demoralize Dems, we repeat it
This is utter bullshit - no more of these "concern" posts please.
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #41
49. thank you. 5000 is enough for one day.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. I'm starting to get a little nervous
People are too easily sucked into this kind of rhetoric...
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-31-06 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #51
60. i share your concern... that this is all a big waste of time and energy at a time
when we need to stay focused on top priorities.

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Ninja Jordan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
42. My 2 cents: he's implying liberal bias in the media's polling formulations
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 10:31 PM by Ninja Jordan
and, hence, his "math" is the correct math to use. It's "the" math, not liberal NPR's "math."
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greeneyedboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
44. has he ever been sincere in his life? did you believe him when he said
...that he'd rather run against Howard Dean ("our dream opponent") than Joe Lieberman?


PLEASE!

here's the deal with "the math" and why it's OBVIOUSLY an attempt to keep some remnants of hope alive for the GOP:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2915606&mesg_id=2915606
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montana500 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
53. Rove is just trying to stem the "air of inevitablity" vibe
Edited on Mon Oct-30-06 10:39 PM by montana500
It's an old political trick. The main thing you don't want in an election is the inevitability that you will lose. That's why calling Florida for Gore so early hurt. I'm sure thousands turned around and went home when they heard that.

It's no different here. Rove is just trying to reverse what he can't.

But by acting frightened of this kind of bullshit, you play into his hands.
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robinlynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
54. yes. already votes are flipping in early voting in 4 states that we know of.
Florida, Arkansas, Missouri, Texas ahv reports of people who try to vote D, and the machines only register R. I was at dem party headquarters today here, coordinating poll watching activities, and they are simply ignoring it again. They're really interested in GOTV, and just not worried about election fraud!
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
57. "Entitled" scares me more than, "The Math," honestly.
I expect him to cheat; I don't like that he thinks it's his anyway.
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PistolSteve Donating Member (222 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-31-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #57
62. agreed... n/t
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gully Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
58. 1-866-OUR-VOTE
Remember that number and use it if you see irregularities of any kind. Further, contact your local media.
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ornotna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-30-06 11:08 PM
Response to Original message
59. Doesn't worry me a bit
It's a scare tactic to demoralize Dems. Fuck them! We have The Schwartz.


This is no time to be timid, it's what the dirty bastards want.
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