Paper trail DOES NOTHING to avoid fraud

Just because you have a little piece of paper in your hand saying you voted for the Democrat, doesn't mean the vote was tabulated this way and sent to the central computer showing a Democratic vote.

It is a receipt, not a ballot. A feel good piece of paper that means nothing.
also what is printed on that piece of paper may have nothing in common with the way the machine tabulates the votes.

Only a real paper ballot can be used in a recount.

The one I voted on this morning prints results on a captive strip of paper that is kept in a locked container for auditing.

The only "receipt" I got was a sticker that says "I voted".

the same as what you voted?

I saw it with my own eyes.

With optical scanning systems there is a paper ballot preserved and it can be used for recounts.

Except instead of a pile of sheets of paper, it's a captive roll.

:evilgrin:

I asked the Poll worker how do I know if the votes are counted correctly. She replied that there is a paper trail. I then asked her if they were going to count the paper ballots to see if they matched the electonic tallies. She said no. I asked why not. At that point, she looked at me like I was crazy. Hmmmmm....

The one I spoke with this morning said the paper tapes would be used in random audits, and in the event of manual recounts.

that a paper 'trail' means nothing. that was what Andy always said. Ballot only, no "TRAIL".

They can be forged, boxes stuffed; whole boxes dumped or burned, etc.

The paper audit system I saw in use yesterday would be quite secure, as long as a proper chain of custody is maintained. (Just like regular paper ballots.)

hand.

and the paper ballots can be recounted at the precinct in public and results POSTED in public, and recounted if necessary..before results be sent to the central tabulator.

msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

hehe...

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAAA!




Little too little... way too late... maybe you should have just gone for the jugular and said it was worthless to vote, stay home and get drunk instead.

On the other hand, if you make a mark on a piece of paper & run it through an optical scanner that counts it & collects it, you can count the collected ballot. That's the type of system I voted on today.

numbers can not be manufactured or massaged.

Do you have anything constructive to add to that?

Took my time, voted on paper, mailed it in, simple.

with black hands. :sarcasm:

or a paper ballot? a "receipt" from a computer means nothing so you right there, it's a paper ballot that would. it would be the only way to recount an election.

...the paper trail is not kept by the voter, it is kept in a sealed box as a record of the votes and can be used in a recount.

That's the theory anyway. Now there are some fine points. One, if I was in charge, I'd require 100% of machine votes be counted both ways, as a check on all machine tabulated votes. Two, assuming that the machines were shown valid, I would still require 10% of the votes to be recounted via paper, and the recounts to be chosen randomly -- and that would be in addition to any actual requested recounts by losing candidates. Three, I'd remember what Andy said, and demand "voter verified paper ballots" (he specifically warned against using the term "paper trail" as it has no real legal meaning). Four, don't forget, there is always opportunity for fraud, no matter the method. The trouble with computers is they make it so damned easy.

Just because you have a little piece of paper in your hand saying you voted for the Democrat, doesn't mean the vote was tabulated this way and sent to the central computer showing a Democratic vote.

Just because you made some marks on a piece of paper and dropped it in a box doesn't mean the vote was tabluated correctly, or that your ballot will be counted at all.

It's illegal to use a receipt as a vote in a recount. The OP is right. The paper should be the ballot.

It's an audit tape, which has been verified by each voter and can be counted just as could a stack of paper ballots.

I'm still unclear on what the OP is referring to. In a system of secret ballots there would be no value to a receipt (i.e. serialized piece of paper handed to the voter) that detailed every vote you cast.

or the best method but it is better than what we have now.

*shinebox* anyone?

The key is to make them auditable so as to be fool-resistant.

again ...51% wins by fucking Repukes as Gubernator, Senate and Congress ...

Other than your feeling that the numbers aren't right?