My son's 5th grade fundie teacher...

got mad at him and another kid today for checking the election results on the computer. They were anxious to see the results of Montana and Virginia, knowing they were both up unresolved when they left for school today.

This teacher is generally a very nice guy, my son likes him, but he's part of a small group of teachers (maybe 2 or 3) at our school who are hard core Christian right wingers.

Danny took the day off with me yesterday to GOTV -- he had a great time, and learned all about Voter Rights and what a poll watcher does -- so today when he went to class he was all fired up and eager to watch the results keep coming in throughout the day.

He says his teacher was in a foul mood all day; this is a very liberal area, and most of the kids were cheering the Dem landslide, which I'm sure didn't help his teacher's mood at all. So when Danny and his friend used the class computer to check the election results, he made them leave the class and go sweep the area outside the classroom for 5 minutes. Not a major punishment, not detention, but still...what a jerk. He should be ENCOURAGING the kids to be involved and excited in the democratic process, not punishing them for it.

I'd make a bigger stink if Danny were actually punished for it, but I'll just hold my tongue on this one and enjoy the victory. And remind my son that while he has to follow the class rules, he should not be remorseful for being excited about the political process at age 10.

Incidentally, his excuse note for missing class yesterday reads, "Please excuse Danny from school on Tuesday. He was busy taking his country back."

:bounce:

he actually did it!!!

Sounds like you have a GREAT kid!

should have been applauded by the teacher...the kids actaully had the chance to watch Democracy work....shame on him....

and that's a great note!!

that note is the biggest stab through the heart you could ever give-far far much better than a face to face encounter you could've arranged. You played it perfectly.

He was harrassing those children and it's not a teacher place to punish children for being involved.

I would definitely take it to the administration. Don't let your child think he can be harrassed this way.


Just my $.03

They basically had their wrists slapped for using the computer when they were asked not to. I also need to teach my son to obey classroom rules. As I said to someone else downthread, I suspect that the teacher would have let it slide if they weren't gleefully looking for Democratic victories, but in the end it wasn't a harsh punishment, and I'll let the guy off the hook - I feel kind of sorry for him today.

I think that you are right here. It's not problematic, especially if they were asked to leave the computers prior to being made to sweep up outside the classroom. But, you should be proud that your son is so interested in the political process. When I was in 5th grade, I didn't know ANYBOdY who really gave a damn! :) Good for your son! He'll make a difference in our country when he grows up!

na na nah nah
na na nah nah
hey hhheeyyy
goodbye!!

Hey, I'm 25 years old and I voted with my father yesterday to help take it back. You're doing the right thing for your son. Kudos to you sir !

Liberals!

Hello, son. Glad to see you here tonight. It is a great day to be an American.:hug:

This was an Infiniti dealership, and the clientele are very, well, let's say upper middle class. I noticed there were 4 or5 men in their suits in the waiting room with me, their faces all pink and mopey, deep in dreary thought. Not one of them was reading the morning paper, which sat there on the coffee table with blazing headlines about Dems taking back the House. Well, actually one of them did pick up the paper — the Arts & Entertainment section. I had to laugh. I picked up the front page and turned it so the headlines were right in their line of sight. For once! For once, it is OUR DAY!

Good for you and good for your son! He's on his way to being an informed and connected American citizen — the very best kind. Gives me hope for the future.

I'll tell you one more thing. I was an Election Officer yesterday, and I noticed that every single young person who came in to vote was a Democrat! And this was in a very, very wealthy area!

Good for you.

doing.

If I were trying to teach or they had a specific task and they were not doing it, I would be upset as well.



Teachers do NOT have total control over everything. We always get walk thrus and if all kids are not on task then we get docked...
Also, other kids see some kids "getting away with things" and it snowballs


just saying.

I am glad your kid cares, but ...

and believe me, 5 minutes is forever in the classroom

This particular classroom is verrrrry loose, that's just the teacher's style. It's a 5th/6th combo class, and the kids end up having a lot of "free time." Don't get me wrong, it's a great environment for a kid like mine, who is self-motivated and keeps doing his work, but there aren't a lot of rules. So they weren't actually supposed to be doing anything in particular at the time he was checking the election results.

But I did remind Danny that if the teacher asked them not to use the computer, for whatever reason, they have to obey him.

Danny said the teacher normally wouldn't care -- they check the news and stuff on the computer all the time (the teacher is really into technology and encourages this) -- but he was in a Bad Mood today.

A bad mood is not a reason to punish children.

And sorry that's what happen.

Children should learn to be scapegoats.

Again just what I'd do for my child in that situation. I espically do not want my child to learn that I know about an injustice and will not do anything to help.

I would be raising hell.

The fact is that my son and the other boy were using the computer after they were told not to, so they broke the rule and had to face the consequences, which were pretty minor. Danny wasn't even upset about it, he thought it was funny. I reminded him that he needs to obey the rules of the classroom (while high-fiving him for being so curious about the results that he checked them during the day!), but the teacher's bad mood only caused him to enforce a rule that he doesn't normally enforce. As I said in another post, he's a normally lax teacher who doesn't discipline the kids much. In this case he chose to enforce the rule because he was grumpy. No big deal, IMO. It wasn't an injustice.

But: I will be watching this teacher closely to make sure Danny isn't singled out for his outspoken views.

Yes!! That note was perfect! It is absolutly wonderful that you are getting your child involved now, too many parents these days, just don't bother. My son is 9 this year, and although I didn't take him out to any gotv events, he still knows how important this election was, and why. He stayed up pretty late watching the returns with us, and he's really excited about the whole deal.

it's possible your son's teacher saw it but probably not, it was probably sent to the office without comment or perhaps even without the teacher seeing it depending on the classroom protocol (some teachers assign the duty of collecting attendance/main office paperwork and delivering it to the children - this is a sign of responsibility in the higher grades in elementary school. Kind of like delegating chores for smooth household efficiency). My kids' school dist. REQUIRES a phone call by 10 am on the day they are missing school or they send a police officer to check on truancy! so a note the next day wouldn't even be allowed here.

As far as the fundy teacher goes, IF it becomes an issue, you need to approach HIM and ask him why he missed the chance for a valuable lesson in American civics. Regardless of his politics, he should have recognized that the election is "bigger" than one party, and there are other issues. What a waste of a teachable moment.

a trailer hitch!

Yet another reason I'm glad my kids don't go to school.

I'm so glad to home school my children. I don't have to worry about that crap. My children have enjoyed the election process. They made their own campaign literature for Cardin and made a campaign commercial against Steele. My children came to the polls, where I was working, and they were able to experience the election process up close and personal. We opened a bottle of apple cider last night and toasted a wonderful win by their candidates of choice. These kids have marched against the war with their own signs and I'm so proud that they have taken part in getting our country back on the right track.

:( What totally sucks is that you have to call in THAT day between 6 and 10 am. You can't give them a note before hand, you can't send something in afterwards. If your child has mono for example (and you know there are going to be a slew of days off) you still have to call in every single fucking day! (Obviously I've had to go through this).

You have to give a number that the school can call you back at, to verify that it IS you, a parent, calling in for your child.

What's wierd as all get out, is that this is a totally upscale community. There aren't any kind of truancy issues, or gang drop outs hanging around the school. No metal detectors at the doors (Jayzus fucking Kee-rist, this is fundy-ville personified!)

Just this wierd call-in attendance policy.

Our school is also very particular about recording excused absences, because they don't get the $20 per day or whatever it is if the student doesn't show up or have an excused absence.

They even advised us to bring our kids to school in the morning and then sign them out 5 minutes later, if they have a morning appointment or are going to be out for the day. That way the student gets counted as in school and they get their money. Crazy stuff.

to protect the kids from kidnappers (and to protect the school from lawsuits) rather than to combat truancy problems. There are similar rules around here that supposedly started after a school was sued for not informing a girl's parents that she had never shown up to school. I don't know all of the details, but I think the girl had been kidnapped and killed. I guess the idea was that if they had called her parents, they would have known something was wrong much earlier and might have been able to find her.

Not being able to pre-arrange an extended absence is ridiculous, though. What if you were out of the country?

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

FREEEEEEE.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Teachers have a tough job and are human. Chances are he'll make some type of amends to the boys. Gloating serves little purpose and brings us to a low we see too often in the GOP and its supporters.

I try to teach my boys humility. The flipside comes to easily.

He never pushes his views on the kids, I only know he's a fundie because it's a small town.

I did in fact talk to Danny about gloating, it's not nice, and you're right, we're better than that. It's hard to keep a 10 year old from getting too excited, but I also love his enthusiasm.

I know where you are comming from. We had to temper the "The Bush is scary vote for Kerry" chant in 04'.

Kids do get excited. That year my son's class made homemade bumperstickers as an art project and he made "Bush Lied, People Died."

He's a very vocal kid, I have to reign him in sometimes.

He also told me yesterday that when they voted in their classroom in '04, Kerry got something like 28 votes, Bush got 2 votes, and his friend Jacob's dog got 2 votes.
That cracked me up.

Rather risky asking students to involve themselves in a task that usually involves monetary compensation. Not smart at all what if they decided to have a little fun with the brooms? Were they even being supervised? Teachers have been fired for a lot less.

he explained to us at the beginning of the year that part of the students' responsibility to help keep the classroom and the area around it clean. I don't have a problem with that, getting the kids to pitch in and care about their classroom environment is a great idea.

Students were picking up trash on the school grounds and one student cut their hand on a bottle (huge award was involved). Picking up your own trash is OK, but do not involve students in what are essentially janitorial duties.

I would be very cautious handing a student a broom unless there was a lot of supervision, even then I would worry about possible injuries. If someone was injured the first question in Court would be what was the student doing with a broom and was there compensation for this work? Making students do janitorial duty for punishment is not smart.

I can understand moral reasons, but I mean look at NCLB. The NEA didn't endorse *. The repukes are not for education. Educators (the ones I know are or lean Democratic). :shrug:

You should make a huge stink!

Like gordianot says, he could be fired. Your son was not paid to sweep the area. That is slavery.

The sweeping is not a big deal. The kids know they are expected to help keep the classroom clean, it's part of their taking pride in their work area. It's not like they are scrubbing the toilets, it's just tidying up.

I do know that this teacher is normally very lax and wouldn't punish the kids for using the computer, but clearly he was pissed off today.

On the other hand, I am going to keep an eye on this, because my son is very outspoken and his friend told me that the teacher is starting to not like Danny for being so...vocal. Normally the teachers just adore my son because he's a great student, always does his work, is not disruptive, and loves to learn, he's like a sponge, and he loves school. But if I sense that this particular teacher is treating him differently because Danny is outspoken about his political views, I will definitely intervene.

The principal is a fair guy and will listen to me if this becomes an issue.

to have such a wise and reasonable parent. Taking him out for GOTV was a great idea. The way you are handling the sweeping issue will show him a lot about following rules, not sweating the small stuff and choosing your battles. Good for you!

"Incidentally, his excuse note for missing class yesterday reads, "Please excuse Danny from school on Tuesday. He was busy taking his country back."

:hug: to you RevolutionStartsNow. You're a great Mom. Give Danny a :hug: and a ^5 for being a good citizen kid and helping get out the vote.

I saw some young voters at the poll yesterday and talked to them. Told I was happy and proud to see young people voting. God Love'em.

Good on both of you!

but I too, would keep an eagle eye on that teacher.

stay on the high road

I really love that!

Really. This is what we are supposedly encouraging our kids to do -- take an active interest in the process. Would he rather have had them 'Net surfing, or playing games?

The kids sound more mature than the teacher.

to teach the kids about the political process, and to engage the ones who weren't already interested. Ask how many voted with their parents the day before, and what they thought about it.

But in this case, I suspect the teacher was so grumpy about his party being thumped that he missed a perfect chance to actual TEACH something.

I've posted about my son here before; he wrote an essay in class about what he would do if he had a Magic Wand, and in addition to defeating the "Axis of Evil: Burger King, McDonalds and Jack-in-the-Box", he said he would kick out the Bush administration. During the parent-teacher conference when I read this, I laughed out loud, and the teacher simply commented that "Danny definitely has an agenda." I let it go, but if I see that the teacher is treating Danny badly because of his views, I will make some noise about it.

It's funny because this is a very liberal part of the country, we don't have to deal with this nonsense much, but this year my son has become much more politically aware and outspoken, and he just happened to land in this guy's class.

My kids (little older than yours) also go against the political herd where I live, and it's neat to see them speak up for themselves and what they believe in intelligently. (Most kids here just parrot what they hear from their folks; mainly GOP, right-wing, I-got-mine rhetoric.)

Sounds like the teacher, too, needs some lessons in respect and tolerance of different political views. I know losing sucks, but there's a lot to be said for taking it gracefully.

And yes, I too would definitely speak up if I got the impression he is being singled out because of ideology.

I was 11 when the McGovern campaign was going on. Spent election day talking with all the activists outside the area polling places and by afternnon I was actively helping the campaign. Great age to be introduced to the process.

I think it's important to engage them at this particular age. My daughter did the same at Danny's age; she worked on the Dean campaign with me, even traveled to Iowa before the caucus, and spent a lot of her evenings at meetings with me writing letters, etc. She learned a lot.

But as she entered her teen years she started to become much more interested in her own things (music, friends, boys...) and while she's still politically aware, she's not interested in activism at this point in her life. Anyone who has a teenager knows it's more common than not to have them go through this self-centered phase. It's okay, she's a very good kid with good values -- I think she has a foundation now, and when she's older I won't be surprised if she returns to activism and political involvement.

If you have kids who aren't yet totally self-absorbed, now's a good time to talk to them about what's going on in the world (and their own community) and how they can help.

seeds planted in fertile soil will sprout once the conditions are right, even a decade later.

This teacher is normally very lax (he's known to be the easiest teacher on campus, runs a very loose ship), so the kids often get away with minor transgressions like this, but Danny said he was in a bad mood yesterday and decided to enforce a rule he normally wouldn't.

I'm not making it an issue because I want Danny to understand that the classroom rules should be followed even if they aren't usually enforced.

But I have decided to watch this teacher a little closer. He's one of a few of these Christian-Right teachers we have on campus; generally the teachers are very liberal, but there are a few like this one. My daughter recently told me that her 4th grade teacher once told them that evolution was just a theory. Eek! Wish she'd mentioned that at the time (5 years ago), I would've raised hell about that.

son and you were doing on Tuesday! And, it's so easy to read what was going through the teacher's mind.

Too bad he doesn't realize that Jesus Christ would probably have been happy with most of the results. :)

The punishment wasn't severe, and that teacher probably was having a very bad day. Sucks to be him right about now. But his pay and job security are both likely to increase in the next couple of years, and if he's not a total ignoramus, he might even learn something about who represents his interests -- all of his interests -- better in the evil, secular world of governance.

is a load and you know it.


Too bad about the teachers mood.

Edited rant ouo--read your post upthread.
Naughty kid ya got there.:rofl:

The teacher was using the donkey and elephant symbols of the two parties in some kind of illustration and had labeled the donkey as Republican and the elephant as Democrat.

My son pointed out to her that it should be other way around. The teacher actually had to look it up on the computer first before she believed what he said.

Fortunately, most of his other teachers seem to have a clue.

:evilfrown:

just kidding.

but, yeah, great note you wrote for him.

and, thank your son for helping to get our country back!

Hey, I think it's fine. ;)