Why I'm Leaving DU

First, this is not a bashing post. Democratic Underground is an incredible site with fantastic people. I have learned much from those who post here and appreciate the intelligence and insight they bring to matters political and social.

That said, I have to say that I am pretty stunned this morning. It's my own fault, really, because I never bothered to read the "Welcome to DU - This is Who We Are" section. I just logged on, started reading posts, and got my own feel for this group. If anyone else did the same, I will share this with you:

Who We Are

Who is Welcome on Democratic Underground, and Who is Not

Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office.

We ban conservative disruptors who are opposed to the broad goals of this website. If you think overall that George W. Bush is doing a swell job, or if you wish to see Republicans win, or if you are generally supportive of conservative ideals, please do not register to post, as you will likely be banned.

Now, I am a proud, progressive with a mind chock-full of liberal thinking. I am a former Marine, a gay man with a partner of 10 years, and a proud American. And I am 100% over the moon today now that we have taken the House and the Senate. And for those thinking I am some FReeper or troll, you can check any of my previous posts. Heck, one of my posts even made the DU homepage last week. So I am who I say I am.

Yesterday I read a post from what I assume is a FReeper, in which she played the passive-aggressive card and took the hypothetical moral high road. I responded with something like, "all that is required to not be banned from DU is to respectful of others and engage in adult, intelligent debate, rather than attacking and insulting." Okay, I'm paraphrasing here, but that was my general message.

I received a reply from someone here at DU who directed me to the "Who We Are" section, and I was very surprised. I had no idea. I just assumed that, being Progressives, we were more than willing (and capable!) of debating anyone who presented an opposing opinion in a respectful manner. (Obviously, insulting trolls are not what I am talking about.) I didn't know that DU had a policy of banning ANYONE who holds different views.

I get it. I do. Someone has gone to a great deal of trouble to build DU, and it's their baby. They can do what they choose and make the rules. I respect that. I am not even saying that they are wrong. Quite the contrary. More power to DU! For me, though, I am not comfortable surrounding myself with only like-minded individuals. I know it means dealing with what one DUer called "a cesspool of hate," but I will take my chances.

If I am lucky, I will search and find an online community that allows both sides of an issue to post and debate, while moderating heavily to maintain an environment that is respectful. It may be like chasing unicorns, but I have to try.

John Hulsey
sandiegojohn@gmail.com

(P.S. Save your time if you are only going to say that this site is not for me. I agree. For me, DU is like a bar in my neighborhood that plays only one kind of music. I like it, and I could have a good time there, and I wish it great success. But I need to hear other songs, too.)

:rofl:

your joke is not funny..

Really. Read the OP again. It's an obvious troll.

I don't know anything about you, and I won't assume. But I can tell you that I fought the Marine Corps in court to win an honorable discharge - pre don't ask, don't tell. I marched in the first gay civil rights march in the state of Alabama. And I have debated the Heritage Foundation and the Moral Majority on Alabama Public Television several times. I have also volunteered for clinic defense in Mobile and Pensacola, back when they were shooting abortion doctors.

And a question for you? When was the last time you saw a troll post anything with their full name and an email address?

Welcome back! :rofl:

:nopity:

when it was a free-for-all, so this gentleman can understand your policy a little better?

:hi:

... even though I've been here longer than you.

Which one of us is a better Dem?
Post counts and 'age of profile' mean nothing, ultimately.

:eyes: Your post is pointless.

Bold declarations that people are leaving pop up all the time. We'll go through the standard "please don't leave" crap for 70 posts and life will go on. Then again, 70 posts is still more than this person has accumulated. Everyone's little mood swings and posting patterns are not GD's interest.

'Cause apparently there is something you and I agree on. :) Any time someone with a low post count does one of these "I'm leaving DU" and "here's everything that's wrong with you people" posts...all I hear is "blah blah blah".

agree on far more. It's the stuff we don't disagree on that makes things interesting. :D

"Oh, you claim to be so big-tent but then yadda yadda yadda"

"I thought this was a board for OPEN-MINDED people, blah blah blah"

Every. Single. Time. Well, since I joined, at any rate. :D

I really wish people would just 'get it.'

Especially when it happens right after an election.

I remember when I was still lurking, I always thought... Man, I could be like one of those guys, register, and have my one and only post be, "Well, I have been lurking here for a year and a half and have decided that I am leaving DU because..." I mean, honestly, who really cares in the long run? Low posts counts and dramatic announcements about leaving tend to ignore me, and I, for one, am not going to urge such people to stick around. Good riddance is what I say.

dissenting views brought up with out being "disruptive" should be embraced here at DU. :cry:

Not one of the "neutral" or "all encompassing" boards.

I don't WANT to hear the other side's views -- all I have to do it look at MSM media for that.

There are not always two sides to every discussion especially when one side is routinely full of shit.

Especially people wanting to take me rights away.

If YOU do, then go to one of the many other boards people on here suggested.

:eyes: There's plenty of disagreement, debate, and argument here. But it's not on the level of superficial attacks, lies, memes, strawmen, false dichotomies, twisted half-truths and other such rhetorical nonsense we get enough of from the rightwing. DU also presupposes agreement on some very broad, basic issues -- the role of government, individual rights to privacy, equality under the law, etc... (Although how these relate to specific issues is often discussed.) I find it refreshing to get past that and get down to deeper discussions. And again, there's PLENTY to discuss, and plenty of disagreement here.

Really, if it is so bad here, why has DU thrived even when there were posts that some have viewed as borderline homophobic, anti-Semitic, racist, etc... It's has thrived because discussion thrives.

The fact that I am saying that is a dissenting view! Am I banned? Tombstoned? Nope. I've seen a number of threads and posts that are objectionable, and many of those people are still here, so I don't buy that crap that dissenting views are not embraced here -- they are both embraced and tolerated.

they debate, it get's ugly, the cons are the usual suspects, but it's an equal opportunity site.

DU is an advocacy forum not a debate forum.

There are ten thousand other websites where you can go and butt heads with the Rush-bots, the racists, the paid trolls and the rest. The Yahoo boards, CapitolGrilling, etc. Go have a ball.

This place was born on January 20, 2001, as the fraudulent inauguration of SCOTUS George wended its way down Pennsylvania Avenue. For the first six months of its existence, this place was literally flooded with Freep disruptors who tried to tear it down. The first mods, and the Admins, sweated blood to hold it together.

Have some respect for that.

Also, and simply, all those other forums are for fighting, mayhem and stupidity. While we have that here, we have one other aspect that is absolutely necessary: a place where Democrats, liberals and progressives can come together to plan, research, commisserate and prepare in an atmosphere not flooded with Limbaugh talking points.

It has been a life-restoring thing for me and thousands of others, so have some respect for that, as well.

And thank you, sir, for your service in the marines. Best of luck to you.

P.S. - If you want tacos, don't go to a Chinese restaurant.

DU is one of the first political sites I have ever been on where there is more than 25% female participation. Part of this is the admin's strong commitment to providing a place where liberals are NOT shouted down, demeaned and argued off the board. I've watched too many debate boards turn women off to any internet discussion. That is not true here

If you can't find a variety of "music" here, with the multitude of forums (fora? whatever) and need to leave completely as opposed to keeping DU as one of your regular stops, go. But those of us who have been here for years and contribute regularly know when we have a good thing and don't want it to change.

n/t

Thousands of us love this site as is. Many of the posts are thoughtful and informative and the replies seem sufficiently diverse. From what I've read, any Democrat should feel at home here. Maybe we don't agree on every single issue, but what is interesting about Democrats, we share a central core, even when we seem to be flying off in different directions. DU seems to embrace our differences but at the same time nudging us to remember what we're about.

Some folks here take the "restrictions" more seriously than others, especially in the 'big' forums.

But ... at least you tried DU for awhile, even if you did ultimately find it's not a match with what you're seeking. There's nothing wrong in admitting that, and we'll probably still be here if you're ever in the neighborhood.

:hug:

Its not like we are all in 100% agreement over here all the time and there are some pretty good brawls. I think if you stuck it out you'd see plenty of debate on issues. Just from the same base philosophy.

a respectful manner. Check out sites that allow progressives and conservatives to debate and you'll see the problem.

I have done my time on the "open" boards and got really tired of their tactics. One can only waste enough time with people unwilling to listen or act respectfully.

Perhaps the environment will change now that we have some power back and have a chance to change the tone, but it will take some time. For now, I get into enough arguments around here because I still fight strongly to change the party from within. Strangely enough, all those arguments are still liberal vs. conservative, authoritarian vs. anti-authoritarian, and strategy vs. principle, but they are actual arguments, not pissing contests.

Our man won't find what he's looking for. Open debate sites look more like open war sites and very little serious discussion makes it beyond one or two posts. Intelligent and thoughtful people on both sides end up fleeing and find themselves here or (ugh) FR, which acts on disruptive posters exactly as we do at DU.

What's this about not fighting? These people are the best fighters around.

But yeah that's what Democratic Underground is and it's pretty open and clear about it. We are discussing issues amongst ourselves - as there are more than enough boards where we can talk with Republicans and Conservatives.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

You're right, and I stated that upfront. It was my fault that I didn't read the "who we are" section.

To me, there is zero "hidden agenda" or POV.

There are a lot of them, and they came over from the other boards to stir up shit. Now is as good a time as any to send them packing. If you want to go with them, I doubt many will try to stop you. Good luck over at the cesspool. Been there, done that. There is a REASON it is called a "cesspool of hate." Try reading through it before you sign up, because once you're there, they'll deny they've ever said a negative thing about anyone, all the while calling you a dummie libtard for questioning their fairness.

See ya.

(At least you found a way to get your first post over there...this will be posted in no time, and they'll all hail your intelligence...until you start posting stuff on your own).

.

There are web boards out there where you can debate Republicans and others.

right next to the "I cried" threads...

...you made a reasonable assumption, and someone pointed out to you that the rules are really a bit more restrictive than you had thought. Okay. But it is those very rules that make DU the great place it is, that provide us with an environment where we can communicate without being drowned out by right wing disruptors.

It's hard enough to debate with others of the same stripe -- our Big Tent ensures that there will be wide differences of opinion here, as to basic policies and as to strategies and tactics. Opening the doors to a broader debate would just dilute the primary mission of the site.

Anyway, I for one appreciate your civility while stating your position. I also wish you would reconsider.

They have liberals and conservatives there.

For all others, there's The Lounge.
Too bad you missed the days of the gungeon
Those were the days, my friend.

................... NOT!


(thought in my best Borat impersonation)

See, this attitude offends me to no end. You have 600 post? How many of them are really wonderful and insightful things like

"I couldnt agree more!"

or "Way to go"

or "..................NOT!"

Its not like anyone here with 1000+ post next to their names has written 1000+ insightful essays worthy of publication. NO ONE HERE HAS. Everybody has small, simple post to their credit, even if its just a "Welcome to DU zyguh". Nice, welcoming friendly post, but certainly not anything that is discussing the political landscape. So having lots of post next to your name means NOTHING other then the fact that you like being chatty in the boards more than others. Thats ALL a high post number really means. I have been coming to DU since before the 2004 elections, and as it is now I average two hours a day reading the post and following all the links, and digging thru these forums following all the posted information. Until election night when the Yellowstone numbers glitched and dropped to 0, I hadnt ever felt the need to register or post. The reason I did that night is because I had several windows open following the results, and when the glitch happened I had the links to previously posted info that lots of people were looking for, so I registered and jumped in so I could share the information I had in front of me.

Unless you can say that you spend more than two hours a day reading and researching things here, like I do, then you owe me an apology for implying that my low post numbers means I dont have a clue what is going on here.

In fact just the opposite sir, I would say that my low post numbers and your high post numbers while you would make such an ignorant comment like that goes to show that I have a much better idea of what actually goes on here. There are thousands of people who come here everday and dont have a single post to their name. They simply havent registered for the forums because they havent felt the need to post anything. People who have come here to the main page and read the articles, then follow up by reading the comments DONT have to post to be informed. In fact, if your busy posting things like you did above, then your not reading and studying and becoming better informed are you? The minute it took you to post your smarmy comment was one minute you could have been reading someone elses post so you would have a better idea of what really goes on here.

You owe me an apology

assuming you know the lay of the land.

I'm still a newbie here myself. I owe you nothing but the advice to not make an rash judgements on what this community is.

I have been here at DU for over a year, and I think I know the lay of the land. And as I stated in my original post, I think DU has absolutely NOTHING to apologize for.

My "rash judgement" is not based on anything someone posted. And no, I have never been threatened with being banned. None of my posts have been anything BUT supportive of Democrats and the people on this list. My opinion that this is not the site for me right now is based on the "who we are" section of the list.

I am going to spend my time trying to debate those who feel differently. I have no illusions about changing the world, but that's no reason to not try.

about the direction of the party. That's clear in the who-we-are and in the actual posts. I think you should still come her for that tyupe of debate. And I sincerely hope you do.

And DU doesn't satiate all my need to debate either. I go elsewhere almost half as much as I'm here talking with my fellow dems.


and as a side note, (and with no intention of starting a pissing contest) I've been coming here since the run up to the invasion of Iraq. I didn't start posting till 2005, and it wasn't until this election cycle I started posting often. And becoming a larger part of the conversation has definitely affected how I think of DU. When I first started coming here I thought the posting rules were constrictive too. But I can tell you from my experience there is room here for wide-ranging and interesting debate and resource sharing.

As to changing the world, that's a one person at a time job and DU is a healthy place to do just that.

and I've been her daily for hours and hours, since the 2004 loss when I needed a home. I only post when I feel like it. And I don't feel like a lurker just because I post seldom. I feel like I'm at home.

There are often low post-count disrupters who join around elections and come on and do something like what the OP is doing. This doesn't mean he's a troll. And, even though you joined three days ago, it doesn't mean you are either. But, everyone goes by what they learn through experience, and that is often all we have to go on when we don't know someone.

It doesn't matter if 1,000+ post people have written "insightful essays." That's not the point. The point is, DUers get to KNOW other posters, and know if they agree or disagree with them, if maybe they are just having a bad day, etc. Just like your friends and family. A stranger can slide by with way less than someone you know, even if you don't like that person.

No reason to launch a personal attack in your post either. That's also against DU rules. You may want to read them silence you are so new.

Maybe you owe the poster an apology,eh?

of medal on a tinpot dictator's chest.. my goal is to never hit 1000. When I get to 999 I'm going to retire my "trekbiker" handle and start over. but dont take it too seriously like the OP seems to be doing with the so-called "restrictions". He is wrong about this place, there is plenty of knock-down dragout debate, it just occurs within the progressive universe (which is a whole lot bigger than the neocon world). I've never been a democrat and never will be, its just that I'm closer to their way of thinking than the Repubs..

for really having a clue about what's going on here? I've often wondered that, myself.

Possibly more.I'm shy and mostly come here to learn,or perhaps more accurately,unlearn what my tv is trying to sell me as "current events".Heck,I wasn't even a registered voter until this year.I was inspired by the folks at DU.I was sad when our senate when to holy joe,yet happy that I voted.

That's a good characterization - I like it.

Hell, my post count is a small fraction of that of many of the folks who came to DU around the same time I did (Will, I'm looking at you ;-) ) and many, probably too many, are also "me toos" or Lounge stuff. Most of the time, though, I don't need to post a reply, as there are enough interesting, intelligent comments made that one already reflects my thoughts on the given subject. Personally, I think that attempting to judge someone by either post count *or* longevity is pretty weak.

And kudos for getting involved in the process!

I love that I'm always being surprised by something new here at DU.

:toast:

The fact is, there is a broad spectrum of viewpoints here. You can engage in dialogue--or argument even, if you like--on varying shades of left/liberal and beyond all the way to closet freep. So your desire for a broad community has already been met here. The only ones not welcome are ones who are hostile to left-liberalism. And that's as it should be. Why would anyone want to have right-wing frothers in their company anyway at a left wing forum?

I'm sincere in saying I understand and appreciate your point of view. But good luck finding a place on the Web where people of different politics can discuss their differences without eventually devolving discussion into a brawl.

of places to voice their opinions. DU is OURS. I really don't want to come here and read their shit. I don't listen to Rush, Hannity, O'LIElly or Boortz and I NEVER watch Faux News...why is that? Because I don't care to hear what they have to say! DU is called DEMOCRATIC Underground for a reason. It a place where we like-minded people can share OUR LIBERAL views. If you can't handle that.....

Buh Bye!:hi:

most always my post is when i DONT agree, like now. why post otherwise, if it is simply confirmation of op. i have disagreed with many liberal ideas, being moderate or what some may deem conservative. i am pro gun, pro business, anti nanny state and often enter threads to argue those issues.

i have NEVER had reprimands from adm. i have had total freedom to express my views. and i try to be respectful

the few times i have had a post deleted has been when i knowingly went to far. i accept the delete, knowing full well i asked for it

i dont know your beef and dont care. it is yours to resolve. i dont agree with what you say though

:hi:

Bye. Have a good life.

You have made up your mind, so....bye bye.

I think I just sprained my eyeballs reading that.

Please let go of your hurt feelings and stay here. Just observe the rules and be overjoyed we exist, ok ?

Hulsey, I read the exchange you're talking about and I think you've taken it out of context. We hold differing views here, we just don't feel like holding out olive branches, promising to be "good neighbors" and stuff like that after the crap of the last 6 years...and that's what that post was about. :hi:

They are obstensibly bipartisan, but the oppressive, illiterate hatred spewed there by the freepers has driven the sane people on both sides away. It doesn't work. They are mindless and they revel in it.

DU is a special place. You're only hurting yourself by leaving over this.

Incoherent nonsense.

find one of them

but its conceited to believe that the creators of this website should change their rules because you find it objectionable.

I agree completely, it would be conceited to think that DU should change to suit me. And nowhere in my post did I suggest that.

I get it. DU is needed as a balance to the swill and hate that passes for "debate" on other sites, talk radio, most MSM, etc. And as I also said in my original post, someone went to a great deal of trouble to create and build DU.

This is a Democratic Advocacy group, and I get that. If I had read the "welcome" section, I would have understood that.

If you want blues, go to a blues bar, and don't expect Techno pop. If you want Techno, go down the street. We're a Democrat bar. Drop in as you like, and drop in elsewhere as you like. :hi:

TROLL

Who really looks like the troll in a post like this?

A guy finds fault within 54 posts, on an internet site which is one of THOUSANDS, and decides that his criticism carries such weight he must announce his departure.

The other poster, who is staying, and has 25 times the posts of the OP, is suspicious.

Your math suggests the latter it a troll? An interesting interpretation, indeed.

Explain your unusual mathematics to us, please.
The Professor

See my logic?

I didn't realize that post count was a measure of integrity!!

He has been here since Nov, 2005 (1 year) and is a donor - I think he deserves a little respect as he gave a detailed reasoning for his post title. I'm not saying i like this sort of post; OTOH, this person is being WAY more reasonable than most who post with this title...

(edit - typo)

I asked for you to explain your calling the other person a troll. The logic doesn't fit, does it?

He didn't call him a freeper. He called him a troll. That's what you did. Therefore, the rules don't seem to really matter to you. So much for that excuse.

I didn't suggest that the number of posts bestowed integrity. Never even suggested it. What i said was that if one compared the numbers, one should have a very hard time deciding that the latter poster was a troll. You did exactly that, however. I didn't demean the integrity of the lower numbered poster. Just questioned how your math would have derived that result.

On the plus side, i see we are of like mind when it comes to these self-important and self-aggrandizing "i'm too cool for this place so see ya" posts. So, you and i have no beef there. We're on the same page, same paragraph.
The Professor

That's all I was attempting to do. As in, "takes one to know one" - as I teach my children. It was for reflection, not intended as an insult.

Anyway, glad you think we look at this type of thread similarly :D

:hi:

I understand your point! I guess i loathe these "look at me" threads so much that i am willing to believe that someone needs to body slam the OP. But, that's just me! :evilgrin:
The Professor

This is likely the first time I have not felt the urge to body-slam the O/P - an "exception" if you will :D

DU you is awesome

:D

:shrug:

you may change your mind. I say this because in my short 2 years here I have come across a wide range of opinions, thoughts, comments etc. 2 things I have noticed at DU, common sense rises to the top 99% of the time and bullshit falls to bottom 99% of the time, this being said with all other context being set aside.


If you do not wish to stay I wish you well on your quest(s) for something more complete.

and all the disgusting tauntings and mockeries by the previously covert freepers after those losses ("seventhson" anyone?) then maybe you'll see why we are circumspect of recently joined concern trolls.

I'm not recently joined, but I will admit that I was NOT here at DU after 2002 and 2004. Someone earlier suggested that Skinner post the "How we got here" information for newly joined DUers. Probably a good idea.

so I can honestly say that your characterization of DU'ers being "like-minded individuals" is waaaaaaay off base. There is a broad plurality of views here that can quickly degenerate into virtual trench warfare. The 2004 primaries were particularly fractious.

I see what you're saying about banning conservatives, but I think the purpose of DU is to create a place where Democrats and progressives can come together to hash out our issues among ourselves without having to debate with rightwingers and neocons like we do offline or on other sites.

Just my 2 cents worth.

There is plenty of room for disagreement and you were defending someone you didn't even agree with - hardly a reason to leave.

Go pout for a while - you may wish you had given DU a chance - we're good people here and there is PLENTY to disagree about without having to deal with 3rd grade Freeper posts. Often well reasoned opposing views are allowed to be debated for a time - just don't get caught up in defending those who find their views offensive...

Have you been threatened with a ban possibility? Otherwise, I have no idea what you are talking about. The fact there is debate here kind of disproves that only one mindset can exist here.

if that makes a difference.

A one time donation of $5 so he could disrupt might be a small price to pay for a troublemaker with nothing else to do. So, it would seem apropos of nothing.

And, no matter how long one has been here, no matter how many posts, no matter the donation base, announcing one's intention to leave and expounding on their critique is the stuff of folks who need to get over themselves.
The Professor

you answered my question. hahah

Again, I am NOT saying the OP is a troll... I have no idea. However, it's known that people make donations just to be able to disrupt the smaller forums and to be able to get on during Defcon 5 times.

:rofl:

Seriously, do you have anymore jokes?

pitbulls, guns, fried chicken, transphobia, homophobia, differences between gender & sex, public nudity, death penalty, date rape, legality of a protest action et cetera, I will always think at one point, "this person would so be getting punched in the face right now if they were here."

Don't you agree?

:thumbsup:

DUers don't even agree on whether kittens are cute or not...

the other white meat.

:spray:

(be careful, Punkin...)

And it doesn't pretend to be anything else. This is not a problem with DU, it's one of the strengths, IMHO. When I want "debate" (if you can call it that) with the other side, I do it in e-mail with my conservative friends mostly. I come here to dialog with (mostly) like-minded Dems.

There's this bar I know plays all kinds of music ... www.debatebothsides.com

You might enjoy it. But most of the posters are strongly partisan one way or the other.

While DU can be fun, you won't convert anyone here. It's preaching to the choir ... and in many ways a waste of time. I can admit there are much more productive ways of spending your time than posting on this Forum. On the other hand - it helps some of us re-charge our batteries ...

Probably the best way to reach out to independents and undecideds is through mainstream media, letters to newspapers, calling into radio shows, stuff like that. Good luck!

That's the beauty of the Internets - you're allowed to post your views on several websites. Because shouting matches get tedious for all concerned, and the founders of this site are Democrats, who have no wish to see their work go towards helping Republicans, they have set up some rules. To make it clear, "Democratic" appears in the website name. Liberal thinking is very welcome here. If you want to have arguments with authoritarians, there's plenty of other sites you can do that, while still posting here.

After you've been a member here for a year, I can't quite work out why you needed this explaining to you.

I was surprised to read that the "who we are" guidelines were so specific and anti-conservative. I concede that they were obviously necessary, given the level of crap coming from most of them. But I surprised to be corrected by another DUer, when I posted that a respect for others and a willingness to debate on an adult level was all you needed to avoid getting banned.

And on a side note, funny that you are the only one who noticed I have been here at DU for a year. I suppose the "troll accusers" here will assume I was a sleeper agent, just waiting for today. *sigh*

The first thing I did was check your profile.

Again, I am not calling you a troll, but you have to understand that people who WERE "sleeper agents" have "come out" after being here for well over a year. And, they usually post a "goodbye thread." So, we have become cynical and cautious of certain red flags.

Oh you'll find plenty of forums out there that open it up to both sides of political opinion, but what you'll also find is a huge amount of flame wars. It can't be helped...it's the nature of political discourse that we have in this country.

NOW--- if that's your thing...no prob..and good luck. But for me and the 1000's of other DUers, it's not. There are enough flame wars amoung our own selves to deal with---imagine if we allowed the other side to enter and stir things up.

It's really common sense if you think about it.... but then again, it's common sense for seasoned veterans of political forums.

You, you'll find out soon enough and head back here under another ID.

Haven't you noticed that we have, umm, controversies here?

For most of us, DU is the bar where we can avoid a fist in the face. But--if that's what you're looking for, so be it.

It's focussed on organizing and informing Democratic activists. As such, Republican arguments simply aren't welcome here and I haven't got a problem with that. There are plenty of sites that encourage the sort of cross-party debate you describe.

nm

Without the interference of the Rush and Hannity dittoheads... That said, I think you must understand why this site was begun in the first place. We have discussed your point many times. Maybe someday Skinner and the Admins will actually take your suggestion to heart? However, we would not be where we are today if we had done as you suggest. Where are we today? We have progressed a point of understanding where few issues have not been discussed thoroughly, more thoroughly than on any of the "boards" that you may think allows two-way discussion. We could not have discussed them at length with your plan because emotions and passions would have interferred with the discussion. I challenge you to bring up an issue that we have not discussed? Pros and cons?

If you want to debate with Republicans, there are other boards for that -- as you said. There are also boards for Republicans only; this one is for Democrats.

However, "one kind of music?" You think there are no "opposing opinions" here, no debates? That's just silly.

The last two days were a rare and wonderful time for DU members to come together in shared celebration and optimism! Next up: debates about "center" vs. "left," about the actions of new majority in Congress, and about the 2008 elections. For a Democrat (liberal, progressive, lefty, centrist, whatever) there's plenty there to discuss.

In fact, the debates here are meatier and deeper because we're not arguing on the superficial level of memes, which occurs when debating so-called "conservatives." (We're not mired in "Clinton's fault" and "cut and run" and "tax and spend" and "tree-huggers" and such -- and we value FACTS here -- so we can get down to a deeper level.)

"Save your time if you are only going to say that this site is not for me." Why didn't you save time instead of posting this? Because to me, it smacks of criticism of the site and its members -- as IF we're too narrow for "debating anyone who presented an opposing opinion." As if it's better, higher, holier or in any other was superior to prefer other sites. If that's your opinion, fine; why the need to broadcast it here, I wonder?

Finally, for the record, many DUers DO engage in discussions on other boards, getting into the mud with conservatives. I do it from time to time (and then remember how fruitless it is). If that's your preference, more power to you. Enjoy your "other songs." I'll enjoy the rich harmonies and dissonances I find here. :hi:

This is who we are and we all know how the forum is designed. How is pointing out that we don't permit repug posters worthy of the time it took to write the post. If that were really true then why wouldn't the person just go off to a mixed forum and be done? :shrug:

I probably should have just logged off and not posted this. If it was me reading it from someone else, I can see how it might read as insulting. Someone above wrote that it sounded like I was saying "I'm better than you... blah blah blah." It certainly wasn't the message I intended.

I don't know how else to explain, though. I have spent the last 20 years arguing that progressives and liberals have no problem with debate, because truth and facts always win out. And we have truth on our side. I was wrong in telling someone else that they did not have to have a "liberal/progressive" perspective to stay here on DU, just a respect for others and a commitment to intelligent, mature debate.

I get it. This site is a Democratic Advocacy Board. And we certainly need it. Hell, now more than ever. We have to make sure our newly elected Democratic House and Senate stay true to the ideals that got them into office in the first place. So more power to DU, and good luck. But I will spend my time fighting the good fight in different. Not better, not worse, just different.

grow some skin

... allow everyone in. MAybe we should allow for opposing points of view.. maybe we should... aw, fuck it! No we shouldn't!

Why not just leave? :shrug:

I disagree with it. I am the administrator on another board. We are open to conservatives but are predominantly liberal. We have a couple of long time conservatives and we welcome them and have been posting together for a long time, but we have found that most "conservatives" who joined our forum are there for nothing but liberal bashing. The usually start threads with titles like "Liberals suck".

There is a place for both types of message boards.....those exclusive to one political party and those open to all.

It's hard to be unbiased as an administrator when a poster makes posts calling liberals scumbags and the admin a bitch. I certainly understand the DU's admins desire to keep the rightwingers out of DU. There isn't any point to arguing with some people.

"Look at me!"

Later, dude.

Not only do i not understand the need to be so melodramatic, (good choice of words Bloo), i don't care to understand and i can't stand them.

Get your "look at me" self out of here and just shut up! Who cares if someone is leaving, especially if they've been here for a cup of coffee. And then, who in the world wants to read what's wrong with us and why someone thinks "they're too cool to stay".

You are being kinder than i can be.
The Professor

Is for you to try to understand what you wanted to get out of posting this. If you have been around here for a year now, it should be fairly obvious what will happen when you post a going away statement like this. If you are not a troll, it might be interesting to understand that piece, where you needed to post this "goodbye." But as I said, it was just a suggestion.

A few people from DU have replied privately with websites for other Progressive or Liberal groups that are focused on the external debate, rather than the advocacy perspective. Thanks for that, and I will try some of those sites.

It's possible that it will feel like a scene from Road Warrior, where all the civilization was actually found in a contained area and all the others out there are one step above animals. Most of the people at DU are intelligent, passionate, clever types who are at least as concerned about this country and this party as I am. I doubt I will find that quality of people on all of these other sites.

To those who disagreed with my original post, thanks for the feedback. I understand that a post like this, that I meant as sincere, might be viewed as just another "DU is bad, I am too good for this, I have to go elsewhere" cry for attention. Believe it or not, it wasn't meant that way. I can see that my original post could be read as condescending or judgemental, and I apologize for that.

And for those who felt the best response was something insulting... well... each of us is a sum of who we are, what we say, and how we act.

Well the sum of who I am says get lost knucklehead.

Yes, because the good advice was more about how my post could be interpreted, not about the overall point. That may be a subtle distinction, but I expect DUers to understand that. It's not like I am explaining nuance to a fundamentalist.

I think you are a good man and think we need folks like you here at DU - apology accepted.

:hi:

there are just some people you don't want to deal with here and that ignore feature will remove them from your sight.

I've got a healthy list myself :-)

I really should have spent more time on the "welcome" and "how to" sections before I started exploring DU.

...if you're waiting for the one magic web site that allows all commentary.

I think you would have found many, many kinds of music in this bar. "Conservative disruptor opposed to the broad goals of this website" is a pretty narrow focus for banning. You didn't sound like one of those.

...i'm usually the first one to jump all over a freeper disruptor here and even when it's been an attack on an obvious freeper, i've had many a post deleted. i was surprised at the couple of posts attacking you as a disruptor. you're obviously not one. please don't let the attacks bother you.

i see nothing wrong with your post. you were expressing your regret that DU was not exactly what you thought it was and that you're leaving. i'm not sure why some people got their panties in a wad over that.

i think will pitt's response pretty much said it best.

and, if you're looking for lively debate from both sides, there certainly are a multitude of websites out there. but leaving DU seems a bit extreme. you can be a member of more than one political website at any given time. you don't need to give up your membership here just to join another website. your situation, being a gay ex-military person, is something that makes you a valuable member of this community. your point of view is important here. and while we're intolerant of the intolerance of the right wing, you'll have a hard time finding a mainstream political forum where you can freely express yourself without being judged. at a conservative forum you wouldn't be welcomed if you were open about your life. here you will have no problems.

so, go out and seek some more active debate from both sides if you must, but check in here from time to time and continue to be a part of this community as well.

and, by the way....thank you for your military service!

I listen to other points of view all the time.
You just need to have more than one string on your lute.
Don't have to leave here to visit elsewhere.

The core of the argument strikes me as a false dichotomy.
But go with the gods, if you need to go.

I will stay, as we need a place to debate *our* platforms, issues, etc.

We are a deliberate community, but not an open one.

It's a discussion board so it's bound to attract people who will put you straight on just about anything (i.e. smart-alecs). That's how it works. If you get a reply you don't like either ignore it, alert on it or put them straight (...or accept the constructive criticism).

There are PLENTY of places on the 'net to debate politics--believe me. TONS of place.

DU is one place I know I can come and post and talk and laugh and hash it out with other Dems and not be bombarded by right-wingers screeching about Clintooon and Hitlery.

IF I want to debate others who are conservative, there's no lack of places to do that on the net.

Skinner has a great, unique place here.

Peace.

I have been here for a long time. I don't post much, but I read a lot, every day. I look for news here, I visit here a number of times during the day to see what is going on in the world. And I love this site especially for the fact that I don't have to wade through the views of "the other side." Debate with people who agree on principals is always going to happen, but I don't want to have to read arguments about the basic direction. Are there some Republicans who are okay and easy to talk to? I don't care to even think about that in this place. This is where I come to read about how progressives are talking to each other on the issues of the day. I hear plenty of the other side all day long on the news and everywhere else. This is like a safe haven from that, where I know from the beginning that there is basic agreement on the direction our politics should go, if not the specifics of every little thing. That is what this site is and that is what makes it work. There is plenty of debate and disagreement here, of the kind we need to make our movement a healthy vital force. Keeping the other side out is a breathe of fresh air. Thanks for being here!!

If you want to leave, leave - but don't post flamebait.

Fenris
GD Moderator