CARVILLE: Dems Won In Spite Of Dean-Who Should Be Replaced By Harold Ford?

A PUTSCH AT THE DNC?:

Some big name Democrats want to oust DNC Chairman Howard Dean, arguing that his stubborn commitment to the 50-state strategy and his stinginess with funds for House races cost the Democrats several pickup opportunities.

The candidate being floated to replace Dean? Harold Ford.

Says James Carville, one of the anti-Deaniacs, "Suppose Harold Ford became chairman of the DNC? How much more money do you think we could raise? Just think of the difference it could make in one day. Now probably Harold Ford wants to stay in Tennessee. I just appointed myself his campaign manager."

--Ryan Lizza
http://www.tnr.com/blog/theplank?pid=56467


Carville Says Democrats Won In Spite Of Dean!

Fri Nov 10, 2006 at 09:10:55 AM PST

Nagourney writes that in an unsolicited call, James Carville, a veteran Democratic operative, told him "the RNC did a better job than the DNC this year." Nagourney said Carville also indicated Democrats succeeded because the party's House and Senate campaign committees "compensated for the shortcomings of the DNC allowing the party to take advantage of a wave of voter resentment directed at Republicans." Finally, Nagourney quotes Carville, " When one of these things hits, it doesn't matter who the party chairman is."

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/11/10/121055/32

that guy to the wilds of Tasmania?

He's obviously working for the Repugs now.

;-)

Same difference.

The Neocons polluted their party so bad that many Republicans want another party to run to.
So many are seeking shelter under our big tent but want to ruin it like they did their own party.
This is going to cause a huge split in the party if they run Dean out.
A very huge split.

:thumbsup:

As more & more conservatives take refuge in our party, the "democratic wing of the democratic party" will have to break off if we are going to have a party for We the People.

Who actually has the power to toss Dean? Does anyone know?

This is absurd. What it shows me is that Dean is seen as a true threat to someone who did not want the Dems to win. How much more transparent can this be?

This is exactly what's at the heart of the observation "they're both the same" -- some see the corporatists taking over both parties. Plantation economics. Our "vital interests" abroad are the corporate interests of coercing entitlements and using the military as a corporate security force. The CIA became far more of an industrial espionage agency at the end of the Cold War - thanks to Poppy Bush. The GOP, long out of power and humiliated by Watergate in the late 70's. sold its partisan soul for power. This is what they got. The same deseration pervades the Democratic Party and the same soul-selling is taking place. The working class has been getting fucked over for 30 years. The least-compensated end of the workforce is overrun by people who cannot vote - without representation. Human rights and civil liberties are for sale. Politicians are for sale. One dollar = one vote.

And besides, what has he done to help us? I used to like Carville but not anymore. Both he and Mary need to retire.

STFU, caffeine-free STFU, and zero-calorie STFU light, I'm rather confused as to why he feels compelled to talk such nonsense.

The only "plan" of his that's worked in the past six years is getting other pundits to speculate about Hillary running in 2004 and 2008. Beyond that, he is a failed talk show host, a failed campaign consultant and a failed pundit.

It is like a bad Pygmalion thriller. Carville is obsessed with the Clintons and he will do whatever it takes, including sabotaging the Democratic party, to get & keep them in power. Then he'll play the puppet master along with his warped wife and her friends.

it's James Carville.

nt

I was puzzled frankly. It was like his being "right" was more important than the nation.

totally slumped his shoulders in defeat when ohio was called for the fuckhead. (we lost, we didn't do enough, ohio voted for the fuckhead, that's it, we're done--me in tears yelling at the tv "fuck you carville! stand up and fight like a man!!!)

i was so over him at that point. he's useless.

'thug wife--and their joint consulting business-like to think they have their fingers in every political pie, and charge accordingly. They don't like it when someone else's strategy and efforts overshadow their own. Remember: they charge for their supposed political acumen, it's a product for them. His main interest is MAKING MONEY.

That's gotta bite. ;)

Because HE is not one of US anymore.
I don't trust him one bit.

Hello? He's going to be raising those kids alone for a while, if not for good.

Just facing facts.

and so did Moveon

he can run for Pres! Works for me.

CARVILLE.

:rofl:

any D.C. connections knows exactly what's going on. If you think Carville is acting independently, I've got a bridge to sell you. And seeing as what I'm saying is based on word from the inside, I'll take my source over yours in a nano second.

and, from what I've seen, his want of Hillary to run for president?

Carville is a loyal foot soldier, not to mention that he hungers for the glory days the way a vampire thirsts for blood. This is an organized effort on the part of the clintonistas to oust Dean. They've never made much of a secret about not wanting him to begin with, and they sure don't want him for 2008.

*shrug*

The DNC chair needs to support ALL the primary candidates and not bow to one - who won't win a national election anyway.

I used to like Carville. Heck, I used to like Begala. When they were first on Crossfire I thought it was really great that they were talking about the internet. They'd talk about mediawhoresonline.com and mention web articles. But as time progressed I noticed that their defense of Democrats weak unless they were talking about the Clintons. Time after time, they would let slanderous statements slide unless it involved either of the Clintons then they got their feathers ruffled and came out swinging.

I remember when Jon Stewart was gave it to Tucker, I was hoping he'd also give it to Begala too.

Thanks for the information.

?

Just checking...

Dean delivered the goods. I'm so glad that Jon Stewart publicly apologized to Dean for doubting his strategy. These asswipes can spin our victory until the cows come home. Bottom line...Dean's plan WORKED. End of story.

Howard can run AND run the campaign as well.
He has really impressed me with this victory, because I know he had to fight for it
in the DNC.

of the present shift to the "left"... so they will cut their noses despite their faces?

I think it's a SHIFT AWAY FROM these corporate whores. There are many dems who want NOTHING to do with Carville, Rahm or the Clintons. That's what I see...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2674799

As well as the massive grassroots support online and on foot.

He is fucking delusional.

Harold Ford??? Give me a fucking break.

WTF is Carville's hard on for Dean all about? Somebody more popular than him? Well Carville, we like Dean because he DELIVERS - unlike your sorry ass.

We'll just reorganize the party under out from under them. And maybe we'll call ourselves liberal because we're not ashamed of word!

:mad:
rocknation

like winning. :shrug:

fuck you Carville. 12 years of minority status wasn't good enough for you? the dems didn't loose a single seat they had. Get bent. Dr. Dean's 50 State strategy just blew your mind.

The DLC wants to take complete credit for this victory.
They want Hillary as their candidate.
They want everything CENTER. They hope that disillusioned Republicans will stay in the party and will do everything to cater to them, even if it means purging the left.
They are seeking to make the left wing of the party irrelevant. They aren't smart enough to realize that the party can be all things to all people just like we are--except they don't want to share the victory, they don't want to share the money with anyone except their handpicked candidates.
Basically they want to be what the Republican party was before the Neocons infiltrated it.

your last line is spot on. they are corporatist....plan and simple. "Basically they want to be what the Republican party was before the Neocons infiltrated it."

When all is said and done--after the investigations. After the subpoenas, after all of the corruption is laid bare to the American people...the Plame scandal...Abu Ghraib...theft of billions funneled through Halliburton et al...it will be 50 years before the Republican party will be able to claim a majority again.
The players know that. They are seeking asylum in our party because Democrats will be the ones to clean it up which will make them highly electable.
Watch soon for a third party to emerge. Whether it will be of the right or of the left remains to be seen. It will depend on who ends up claiming the Democratic Party.

now that they've sucked the life out of the Republican Party.

Why the HELL would I listen to anything he suggests?! :wtf:

So, "the RNC did a better job than the DNC this year?" He hasn't seen the election results, has he? :freak:

He's just mad because, these days, he's so thoroughly irrelevant.

so his opinion isn't worth shit.

Take him on for this BS and promote Dean now, not when Rahm and Co. really get their hooks in.

ready for their bullshit this time. Let's cut the SOB'S off at the knees. Complete assholes.

Nobody work for Hillary during the primaries. They think they can do it all with corporate cash? Let them do it all with corporate cash. No volunteers for her. No ground soldiers for her. No active support for her. Let her try to buy the nomination with corporate cash and see where it gets her.

Do they not even realize that the people they are fucking with (us) are the ones who *actually* win their elections for them? Any general who thinks that it is his brilliance rather than the hard work of the soldiers under him who win the battles will lose the war.

Dean understands that the ground-level troops are the ones who win it for them. Carville seems to think that he won the 1992 Presidential election all by himself. He's in for a rude awakening.

Sorry, that's not going to fly. Dean is a grassroots hero, and he most definitely helped us win this election with his 50 state strategy.

Boy, Howard Dean won the House and the Senate, so OUT HE GOES! :eyes: Yet 2000, 2002 and 2004 were brought to you by McAuliffe and Carville. Yeah, we want more of THAT! :sarcasm: :grr:

Carville thinks and Carville thinks he could wedge himself in with Ford. Thus giving that little ratfink to squeal to the wife about Dem plans, etc. Given a choice, I'd say we dump Carville! Especially after what he did to Kerry.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You're much too kind. LOL.

Dean motivated this party, gave it a shot in the arm. We need MORE people like him, not less! Jeez...

from corporatemediawhore tv.

but they apparently can't stand each other, and I'm not sure why. I have to disagree with Carville mightily on this one, because I think Dean used his Vermont background to tap into the Mountain West in a very positive way. Like it or not, those smaller states have electoral clout and Dean took advantage of how evenly divided those states are.

Carville, I think, wants to play better in the south. I got really tired of the south last time around. We've made inroads in the northern part of the south (though I think Allen lost the race on his own and that neither Dean nor the DLC had anything to do with that win).

I don't know what I think of Harold Ford. Voted for the war, right? I did not care for his overly religious concession speech. And J.C. Watts likes him.

Carville wanting to focus on the south is stupid. The midwest, the Southwest and the non-coastal mountain states are much better targets.

Do you hear the Republicans saying their strategy is to win the majority of the costal areas - maybe taking Massachusetts. (I don't know why they keep thinking they can get NJ.)

Dean won this for us. Frickin' Carville and his money grubbing ways would just set us back a decade. We might have won 1 or two races we didn't win if we had poured tons of money into them, but would have in turn lost 10-15 others that we DID win 'cause we were there. The only way the repukes win now is if DINO's like Ford end up running things again...

is trying to split up our togetherness...with all of this infighting will they have time to take care of the real enemies...

he's been hiding since the Plame leak. Speaking of the Plames, I'd love to see their reaction to all this.

He's turned. He's kicking us when we are up! That's so traitor like I can't even stand it. GO AWAY.

Never forget that it was Bill Clinton who worked hard to prevent Howard Dean from becoming Chair of the Party.

Never forget it.

Carville is doing Clinton's bidding already.

The Clintons were so proud of their third way model, but it relied on the old 17-state strategy in terms of electoral politics.

But the re-alignment of the south to the GOP is complete. Now we are seeing a re-alignment of the west and the rust belt to the Dems. Not as dramatic, but sufficient. Fifty states indeed. As Hispanic immigration continues and the coastal south gets progressively more battered by hurricanes (converting them to Al Gore Democrats!) the vectors for the Dem Party are good.

Carville is a Corporate Media clown trotted out for the ghost-of-crossfire segments on CNN. Like yesterday's newspaper, he stinks like an old fish. Dean is leading us out of the wilderness of pessimism and deserves huge kudos.

Full steam ahead. Gore/Obama 08!

And Harold Ford was the Democrats loser on Tuesday night. Maybe it's because of all the crap he felt compelled to spew out.

"I'm the one who challenged Nancy Pelosi for the House leadership."

"I'm for Jesus and against gay marriage."

"I want a wall between the U.S. and Mexico"

Oooops. Hey Harold........You were the only loser.

The people of Tennessee must have more brains than you gave them credit for, they knew the real Republican from the pretending one and voted accordingly.

Pander to the RW and LOSE!!! That's exactly what Ford did. Why vote for a wannabe when you can vote for the real thing? IMO, the people didn't just vote against Little Lord Pissypants. They voted against the DLC corporate whores. IMO, there isn't much of a difference.

Dick Gephardt and Tom Daschle let Bush have everything he wanted. We did have the Senate briefly until Daschle pissed it away by being such a lapdog.

why go for the DLC latte, when they can go for the GOP straight black, no sugar, no cream.

Gore was right. He pissed off the corporatist clowns, media and otherwise, when he rejected their strategies and ran a populist campaign. Dean pissed them off too when he ran a populist campaign. There was no defense of Kucinich, Braun or Sharpton in the press when they ran their populist campaigns. They can't control us when we run the party. When we have control of the party we have freedom to choose who our leaders are.

They seem to be totally oblivious to the fact that the key theme in this last election was change. There were a lot of grassroot campaigns that won. Boyda was already up in the polls here in Kansas when the DCCC stepped in and started running ads on her behalf. Boyda's husband/campaign manager came right out and said that no one consulted Nancy's campaign before running the ads. He said that he didn't really approve of the ads because they negative. Their objection was that Nancy was running a positive grassroots campaign based on issues. Her theme was "nothing will change until we change Congress" and the DCCC ads were distracting from that.

Besides, we know their way doesn't work anymore. When you turn elections over to the national organizations they want message discipline. Guess what, that's what took out the GOP. They were all staying the course. By Dean giving back locally, were ended up with a diverse group of candidates elected to Congress because each of them listened to their respective constituencies. They each represent different issues, different ideas, different beliefs. It is called diversity.

On the other hand, they (Carville and his ilk) want the Democratic Party to be run like a corporation, from the top down, with them at the top telling us how we should think, who we should like and what we should say. Grassroots Dems want the party to be run from the bottom up and Dean's 50 State Strategy helped us do that. Dean helped empower us and that scares the corporatist wing.

:thumbsup:

They want to be an alternate version of the authoritarian GOP, where orders are issued at the top, and the rest of the party obeys.

how many people here don't get that. You should really do an OP saying this.

Keep Dean, schumer and Emmanuel all where they are.

Aside from Leslie Blitzer's Situation Room, Mr. Matalin, and Donna Brazziere are completely irrelevant. The only question that remains is how long it will take Leslie to realize this fact.

I knew they'd try to blow it but I didn't think it would be this quick.

Keep Dean, fire everyone else at DNC who he did not appoint.

as far as i am concerned ford lost because not enough people liked him. carville is pissed cause he is out and so is his wife..

Oh, wait, they aren't kidding are they?

STFU

state chairs would vote against Dean (they were the ones that voted him in) after he has truly followed through with his promises?

Carville has really lost his mind with this.

This just seems like an unbelievably stupid thing for him to say.

Does he want to be further marginalized?

Mission Accomplished, James.

That should be the headline. Forget it, Carville. Your time has come and gone.

.. oh, I don't know, a block of wood, perhaps? At least a block of wood wouldn't constantly try to stab dems in the back.

Anyone? He needs to STFU. Dean delivered.

Did we have a 50 state plan before this? No we did not. That we were competative all over the country is a big part of why we won. I will concede that fielding more conservative candidates in some states helped. Politicians who were willing to go around the country to campaign helped (my bud Kerry for one). But if these bozos think they can hijack the Dem wave to bring back the Clinton glory years they can kiss my shiny metal ASS!

Oh I'm pissed.

And Harold Fucking Ford of all people. I don't THINK so.

Since he does such a good job carrying water for them, he might as well make it official.

You're hallucinating.

I've given him lots of rope. He's from my state. I put up with his bullshit, but this is fucking OVER THE TOP.

Carville needs to get out of Hillary's ass and start acting like a democrat who wants the best for his party

What HE doesn't seem to understand is that WE WANT Howard Dean!

I think FAAAAARRRR too many others are being given credit for what Howard Dean actually did!

And NO! I DO NOT want Harold Ford heading the DNC! Just because Steele will replace Mehlman why do WE have to take this crap??? This is behind the door pollitikkin for HILLARY!!

C'mon, Nancy, put th KABASH on this!!

As a Democrat and a righteous southern woman I'd like to tell him a few things, myself. For the first time I remember, I got mail from the party. Here in my rural area of NC the party spent some money, and the result is that the Democratic candidates won the races for State House, 88th district; State Senate, 45th district - and we took them BOTH from incumbents. We took a few other local elections, also. The big one that we DIDN'T win was the U.S. House, and I got the impression that this seat was never considered "takeable" and didn't seem to get any support from the party nationally. At least there was not any signs of it that I could see. It's the 5th district, Virginia Foxx's seat, and she won easily. I really can't stand her, this is one we need to take next time.

I had no idea Dean would pay dividends so quickly, but I felt he was right. There may be some states that are hopeless, but even in Utah, there are places that might elect dems.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2956099#2956219

Make a donation to the DNC in the symbolic amount of $20.06 and make sure to get the message across that we are saying thank you to Dr. Dean for his leadership and efforts in helping us win this election. I say bullshit Mr. Ragin'Cajun. Dr. Dean's 50 State Strategy was a rousing success. Deal with it. Don't dare replace Dr. Dean as DNC chairman. I have never felt so proud and energized about my party and that is in large part to Dr. Dean's hard work and vision.

https://www.democrats.org/page/contribute?source=NETA45...

Any Real Dem that hires that guy as a consultant

is too stupid to deserve the job

He's still a fuckin' DINO

From the MOST CORRUPT TN POLITICAL FAMILY THERE IS

So now I've got Corker
Time will tell

AT LEAST IT'S NOT FRIST ANYMORE

I don't expect Corker to be anything but a puppet. Ford was kicking his ass until Frist & Lamar bailed him out.

DEAN IS BEST THING EVER HAPPENED TO DNC. SO FUCK OFF OR WE WILL GIVE YOU A WAR THAT YOU ARE ASKING FOR.

Dean's strategy WON.

Ford was the only Dem. Senate candidate in the battleground states that LOST.

Whitehouse and Brown WON. The poster child for the DLC LOST.

Don't mess with success.

Ford lost, get over it!

Dean is fine as DNC Chairman.

Carville didn't help Ford any with this crap.

replacement in these reports. :shrug: Some griping about money allocation, an apparent float of Ford as a replacement, but this seems more like DC chatter and idle sniping than a real push to replace Dean. Maybe I'm missing something, but this may be getting overplayed.

As the old saying goes, the proof of the pudding is in the tasting. And this week's victories are tasting very, very good to me.

Go jump in the lake, Jimmy. Your "expert advice" and 75 cents just might buy me a cup of coffee somewhere.

Goddamn space alien-looking motherfucker. The man does not have principles, it's just gamesmanship for him. He's married to a fucking GOP strategist. He's not in it for the country, he's in it for himself.

I was at a local dem meeting down here and our state rep dropped by. A friend of mine was working at her office and asked me what I thought of her. "She with the DLC?" He's like "Yeah, how did you know?" I shook my head. "Bitch comes down here like she's the adult who's gonna teach us kids how it's done. Yeah? Come back to me once you've won some serious elections, then you can tell me how it's done." She was from one of those safe seats nobody runs against.

It infuriated me to see the same idiots who mismanaged the 2000 election coming back to tell us how to run 2004. Now that we win 2006, they want to tell us how to manage the victory?

Carville simply doesn't want to accept the idea that Democrats can win in other ways besides the Clinton method. If Carville wanted to prove that he's better than Dean he should've spent his time helping Democrats for the past 6 years instead of just bashing everyone on CNN.

If DEAN does not stop talking impeachment, the Dems will lose their newfound majorities!

http://www.abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/ThisWeek/story?id=1933534&page=1

Anything else you care to make up?

I don't trust 'em.

I'm dying to know...

Don't talk shit out your ass with out fact first!

to response so arrogantly when proven wrong. How close are you to Dean that you know his true motivation - and that it is the opposite of what he publicly expressed.

Don't you have ANYTHING else you want to say?

Welcome to DU. :beer:

but Dean isn't talking impeachment. You're going to have to do better than that, like knowing some facts. x(

And I wouldn't advise you lying to Jesus ;)

Dean isn't talking about impeachment.

You're obviously very well informed.

Dean is the reason we the people won!

so they went and jumped on that tactic and we got stuck with shit head.

He doesn't like the smelly peasants ruining the inside the beltway scam of professional campaigners

You want a fucking war Carville?

You got it.

P.S. Does anyone have a link to the story of him telling Matelin about what Kerry was doing in Ohio?

That would be Mary.

Are scared of the progressive arm of the democratic Party.

Their arm of the Democratic Party is about continued coprorate control of America.

They would love to get rid of Howard. They need to get rid of Howard.

AND THOSE OF US WHO OPPOSE THE corporate control of America need to stiCk it to 'em!

DEAN GAVE US THIS VICTORY - and if you want the following - he deserves us sticking up for him

If we want to see the banking industry put off its pedestal - we need Dean (unless any of you love paying 22 bucks for one bounced check)

If we want marijuanan de-criminalized

If we want to end the tyranny of Genetically modified food crops

If we want The end of scandalous companies like Halliburton

Opening up the media so that we don't have the talking right and no talking left

If we want the Presidency in 2008

We need Dean

(I didn't include anything about Iraq in the above - because hopefully even Hillary wants to make some improvement in Iraq)

number of evangelical votes. Carville is emblematic of what's wrong with the DLC Dems.

Now is the time to hold the Dems feet to the fire to make sure they implement a progressive agenda and investigate and hold the Bushits accoutable -- any backtracking from that direcrtion -- and it will be all the proof I need that the Democratic party isn't worth it!

about how to win elections and Dean was right. What does it matter to them, they make out with the money even better when out of office. They are able to stir up the followers and shake money out them by waving the boogie man incumbent repukes at them.

Dean deliverd, and that is because he included left and right. Ford will only attract the right, but alienate the left

If they want a universal appeal, Bill Clinton perhaps, but NOT Harold Ford, and DO NOT TAKE ANYTHING AWAY FROM DEAN

They screwed him in 2004, and they are trying to do it again, and that is what I resent the most

I dispise carville with a passion, I do NOT care what he had done for the party in the past, I think NOW he is a hinderance

Let me make my feelings real clear:

Carville can go to hell, and continue to host parties for republicans along with his wife who supports chenney

Carville is a sure path to a loss in 2008

I admit.

But, such good things happened on Dean's watch that I think he should be Man of the Year.
The man at the helm should get the credit or the blame. I think his personal brand of politics - an outsider trying to get in - was divisive and a losing brand.
But once the party embraced him, he did fine. While others, including my Mr Kerry, continued to find ways to hamstring us in attempting to keep themselves in the forefront for 2008, Mr Dean surprised me by being strong and even-tempered.

A political miracle occurred while Mr Dean was Chair. What more must we see to be believers!
We have ridded ourselves of Pat Roberts, obstructionist. Our eyes have been opened to pedophilia on the Hill. We've busted The Hag (sure, it would have been better to get Dobson). We've miraculously been healed of Santorum, Conrad, Felix, and the list is much longer.

Our party has just been laid hands on bigtime, and whether Dean had a thing to do with it, it happened on his watch.
I feel a healing, anyway. Praise the Lord!!
Can anyone here name six more wreckless or Constitution-challenging years in their lives than these past six? We could not stand two more unchallenged years of this tyranny.
No one man in one position is more worthy than Dr Dean to get his fair share of credit.
No sainthood, but at least no condemnation from me.
And, remember, I was his greatest detractor.

jmo
...O...

"greatest detractors"..cause I don't remember your name but I remember a lot of other detractors that have come out in favor of Dean on this day in history. :)

That's probably a compliment. I'll take it that way, anyway.
I'm not one to incessantly tear down a Dem to the point of trying to get others to see it my way.
I make my point in no uncertain terms, let it be known that's jmo, and then try to find more constructive things to banter about.
...O...

So maybe Carville wants to stick Ford in there as a foil to Steele. Fighting for the black vote.

Bad idea, IMHO.

Hey James, when was the last time you helped the Dems win an election? Been awhile huh? SO SHUT THE FUCK UP!

Carville and that evil thing he's married to can go suck a lemon!:grr:

...after that double shot of what they said was Jose Cuervo, but I know it was way too strong to be Jose.

Just thought I'd throw that in there.... :beer:

You've been stuck with the Battle Ax for too damn long. Your soul has been corrupted with virus.

Is Carville's lovely wife brainwashing him while he sleeps?

HOWARD!

50 states man!!!!!!

We're the national party!!!!!!

They're the best people to critique Dean's winning strategy and talk about what else "could've been won".

:sarcasm:

I for one and I am sure many many many many others will CANCEL DEMOCRACY BOND IF DEAN GOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!