DO NOT FORGET Baker is Defending the Saudis against 911 victims!!!!!

Please do NOT forget that Baker is DEFENDING the Saudis AGAINST the Families of the Victims of 911 and NOW the media is falling all over him as the SAVIOR of BUSH.

These people are EVIL and CORRUPT through and through and this is nothing but a SILENT COUP, Baker is replacing the BOY WONDER Rove.

All of Bush Senior's people being INSTALLED, who the HELL VOTED FOR ANY OF THEM?

Pass the word on Baker, this must be TOLD to the American Public as the Media seems to have forgotten.

kolbermann@msnbc.com



www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts

Is that a crime now?

a smiley face is usually a good idea when speaking of VILE politics and the death of THOUSANDS of innocent americans.

First off I am not sure if Baker is actually representing anyone or not, there is no link to a source. Maybe its just his law firm. Or maybe he is representing someone from Saudi Arabia. Thats what lawyers do. I have no problem with it.

If this were WWII, by your logic, it would be okay for a US Laywer to defend Japan's bombing of Pearl Harbor.

911 set off WARS, and the SAUDIS who were DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE were never held accountable.

Instead we bombed Afghanistan, and then Iraq.

Not Saudi Arabia, where the majority of the terrorists were from.

Baker defending Saudi Arabia is a crime against our country.

I think you should specify which Saudis or if you mean it was a Saudi government planned attack.










This oughta be rich. :eyes:

What does matter is that the Saudis require a lawyer to defend them against 911 families.

So however you frame it, apparently there is merit to "my tinfoilhatism."

Why not save the trouble of a trial and forward your findings to the court, then they won't need a lawyer.

Or maybe I don't understand what you mean by "doesn't matter".

That makes no sense at all. Don't you have a better comeback than that? Weak, man...

If you want to ignore the fact that I asked you to explain your post first thats fine I guess.

However, I answered your post succinctly and relevantly.

I'm not going to get drawn into the old post-a-line spin me into writing a book for you ploy. I'm on to you... :*

I can't force you to continue thats for sure. :)

IF you have a legitimate case for bringing Baker to task, as a responsible American you are expected to hold up your end of the deal and lay down the facts.

We've had enough hysterical, OMG he or she is guilty by association.

STOP IT.

If you have the facts, lay them out and we'll get behind you and put this guy on the list of people to be scruitinized and outed for what he's done. But if you can't say what he's done (other than represent or be in the same firm as people who represent individuals of Saudi descent who may or may not be guilty) then you are just asking us to be predjudiced against someone with only your word.

I have nothing against you and you are probably right, however, at this juncture we have to be the EXAMPLE of rule of law and an intelligent electorate that is NOT being vindictive, but has really good reasons for investigating whoever we want sacked. Just as we want the pRes to get with FISA, WE THE PEOPLE have to be able to justify the expense of the TAR AND the Feathers.

the www.law link should be proof enough for you, and if not, help the DU be the think tank it's been on the best days, when everyone TOOK a LEAD and INVESTIGATED instead of demanding that one person or TWO PROVE what is so OBVIOUS to SO MANY..

Thanks for your patriotism. But if you don't believe something DEBUNK IT, or Look into it yourself. :)

So if we spend all our time kicking out everyone who deserves it, we have to make priorities.

I did not see a www.law link down post. Point is the OP should present accusations with at least some point of reference so we keep the standard of educating and bringing people on board instead of just rabble rousing.

We may have brand new converts that are really confused and not up to speed or people who have been focusing on other battles that just don't know exactly what you are talking about. If you want to be a leader by putting out an OP, then lead, don't whine about being asked for proof of your opinion.

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Everyone sued by a plaintiff in civil court is entitled to hire a lawyer (if they can afford one). This is fundamental to our system of jurisprudence. It's enshrined in the Bill of Rights. Even the worst scum on earth is entitled to a lawyer. What's wrong with that?

It's for the jury to decide guilt or innocence, liability or no liability, not the lawyer.

-Laelth

The problem here is that Baker is working with our government in regards to cleanup of the Iraq War (read, figure out strategy for oil).

Baker Botts also represents Halliburton.

And they're representing Saudi Arabia AGAINST the families of the United States.

So they're working in the interests of the richest and most influential people in the world instead of for our government and our people.

Screw the 911 families.

Make more money for Halliburton which is already swimming in no-bid contracts.

Represent the Saudi Arabian government against the biggest crime against the US since Word War II.

Promote and participate in War Profiteering!

And don't worry about the judicial system - most are Federalists or installed by the Right Wing - straight up to the Supreme Court and will do anything to protect their own. And hey, did you ever notice the Supreme Court doesn't have a jury?

Now tell me about this Bill of Rights thing again? Jurisprudence? We don't need no steenkin' jurisprudence!

And I have no love for Baker, but the Saudis get a lawyer in our Courts. On that point I can't budge.

The difference between the US and the old Soviet Union is that when we put something on paper, we mean it. The Soviets had a beautiful Bill of Rights. It was the most progressive, enlightened document ever written, and it guaranteed rights to all Soviet citizens that severely restricted the power of the Soviet Government. The problem was that they said it, but didn't mean it. The paper was worthless because the Courts wouldn't enforce it. The Government promised those rights, but the government didn't live up to its promises. Here, when we put something down on paper, we mean it, and the Courts will enforce it (and they're not all rabid right-wing ideologues in our Courts). Our Constitution has to mean something. Our Courts must enforce it. Otherwise, Democracy is dead.

So, again, the Saudis get a lawyer, and if they choose Baker (scum though he may be), that's their choice. The jury can decide guilt/innocence or liability/no liability.

Thanks for your response.

-Laelth


P.S. This is also why we have to impeach Bush. We can not let a rogue executive shred the Constitution without facing some severe consequences.

money laundering and dirty business into state secrets a la Iran-Contra. This is what the secret government is all about: the illicit drug trade, money laundering, shady arms dealing, and empowering our "enemies" so that we have something to fight down the line.

Lawyers can be Corrupt (GASP!) as well :)

THEY CHOOSE who they want for clients, if that client will get THEM tossed in the slammer, you'd better believe they WILL NOT take that case.

Baker helped STEAL an election, it was all over the TV and so he has the RIGHT to BE a Lawyer and chose to represent THOSE who murdered our countrymen?

How anyone can see beyond this TRAITOROUS activity is beyond me..

Good post Anti, thanks

ginning up some Baker hate, then I guess I can live with it. I can assure you I revile the man as a political opponent who lies and cheats and does whatever it takes to win regardless of who he smears.

How can I put this? If you spin a web of conspiracies all interconnected but with no real evidence other than guilt by association, unsubstantiated rumors, charges that are highly suspect, etc. Then you never will be able to focus on the real conspiracies becuase you are all tangled up in the bullshit theories. Give that a wee bit of thought before responding.

These are facts. Baker's firm is representing Saudis. Poppy's folks are being installed as we speak. Michael Moore put a lot of this information in Farenheit 911, it was vetted by lawyers, and there are multiple links to a lot of this information, even posted in this thread from Law.com, Newsweek, and others.

There is nothing vague here.

the crimes involved in Iran-Contra are certainly well known, although there does seem to be a concerted effort at covering up much of the drug trading aspects of it. This is one area that deserves a lot of attention and it would expose many, many areas of the money laundering networks' role in the spread of terrorism, and may also expose Abramoff's deeper role in much of this, including, but not limited to, Florida, Atta, etc, etc!!! Unfortunately when evidence appears that incriminates people higher up, such as, say, Denny Hastert's alleged receiving of heroin cash, for instance, it quickly gets swept under the rug. This is where Poppy's influence as former head of the CIA is felt most significantly.

Also, what does Sibel Edmonds have to tell us?

that it is a conflict of interest to serve THIS government and defend another government on their role in the murder of American citizens?
We shouldn't have to ask him to recuse himself of one role or the other.

conflicts of interest. I am not a lawyer for one, secondly I am not sure that participating in a group that is advising the US on the Iraq war has anything at all to do with a suit involving the 9/11 attacks. So I guess at first glance I do not see a conflict.

THAT is IT! THAT is what needs to be trumpeted all over the WEB until the MSM is FORCED to pick it up.. I figured out these chumps in the media a LONG time ago and here's their gig, they are TOO LAZY, or cannot afford the Research that WE Passionate Webfolks have.. hell, you have 100,000 researchers RIGHT HERE (and frankly a lot more of that used to get done, like to see more of that).. and once WE are in LOCKSTEP, ALL the Blogs start PUSHING this "Conflict of Interest" and NOW, then We've CUT THEM OFF AT THE KNEES..

Like the old saying, "Don't let a camel stick his nose in your tent.."

NOW is the TIME to spread this..

Brilliant call there, let's pass that AROUND, tell ALL the blogger you know, and HAMMER IT.

BAKER HAS A CONFLICT OF INTEREST AND NEEDS TO STEP DOWN TODAY..

That simple statement can CHANGE our existence, amazingly simple isn't it?

Thanks for that.. the missing puzzle piece, I'm always thinking of how I can take these guys down with One Finger, like a Zen Master :)

I could scoop an announcement of WWIII and it would sink like stone,lol.

and I pushed your idea of Conflict of Interest as well..

give it kick with BOTH HOOVES please :)

And thanks for the vision..

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Or so I'd hope.

Everyone who has been a lawyer has represented an unsavory character.

Because in American courts, everyone, even killers, gets representation in a court of law.

There are plenty of reasons to crucify these guys, but this isn't one of them.

till you showed up. :)

MKJ

Lets see...does it mean...

I wish Jim4Wes

would stop posting at DU?

or stop questioning the conspiracy theories at DU?

or I can't really say anything of use in this argument accept to throw an ambiguous insult at a poster?

Too bad for you, really.

I won't hold my breath waiting for a logical answer.

As well as your ongoing speculations and insults. Cheers. :toast: MKJ

I'll be around. :)

and their Nazi clients. At each step of the way toward oblivion S&C violated no laws in representing them and camouflaging their operations. They even had the logo "Heil Hitler" on their stationary and were well aware of the violence committed by the Nazis in the 20's and 30's. After WWII John Foster Dulles, who had a number of Nazi Co's as clients became Sect of State, his brother, Allen Dulles became head of the CIA and helped "good Nazis" find haven in S. America and the US.

It's true, from a strictly legal sense, all the Saudis want is what the Nazis wanted, some good lawyers. Horrifying as it is.

where lawyers act in ways that will aid criminals as crimes are being committed. Its up to the lawyers to look at those situations and act responsibly of course.

with the Purchase of the 90,000 acres (I think) in Paraguay by the Bush folks, complete with a water table, a military installation (American), and new Neighbors, the OLD School Nazis that left Germany when the shithouse was burning down :)

Bush is so beloved that he will literally become a Man without a Country after leaving the White House, most probably with OUR tax dollars paying for TROOPS to protect him. Meanwhile President Clinton will continue to dive into adoring crowds, eh?

Interesting, I'd not heard of any of this, and love to know more. Dulles descendant? Scary stuff. VERY scary.

THanks for the info, great work

I'd like to say that the degrees of evil are blurred.
Junior is just more flamboyant and in your face about his misdeeds.
Poppy is more discreet.
Many American's don't have a clue how evil that man is, or have never heard the rumors that *his* cabal was involved in the Bay of Pigs, Kennedy assassination and the attempted assassination of Reagan.

He was BushCo/PNAC Project Management in Florida 2000.

against 9/11 families, I was ASTONISHED that they (BFEE) were so brazenly corrupt, given the patriotic fervor at the time regarding ANYTHING 9/11- related.
I quickly grew accustomed to it...

I hope we all pass this around this weekend to everyone we know.

I could do nothing less than defend my country :)

And I DO mean HONORED, not joking there, that made my week :)

Oz is getting closer all the time, we just have to rid ourselves of these FLYING MONKEYS, eh?

the perps can never be indicted as criminals, that's not allowed!

of the guys allegedly on those planes, the terrorists I mean, WERE SAUDIS.

Bin LADEN is a SAUDI.

While the Media is HONKING all about the Dem Sweep like a gaggle of retarded Geese the real criminals are sweeping in on the STUPID SON like Vultures to GRAB THE GAME from under them..

Wake the fuck UP America.. look what's UP the SLEEVE, look at the OTHER HAND when the Magician is doing a TRICK :)

Look the other hand, petroculture grabs resources unprotected by lesser military technology.

Looking across the persian gulf from saudi to iraq, with your slave-american army bought and
paid for defending the saudi welfare wahabists, bring in some american slaves to fuck with
the iranians... make a deal, demolish a few unwanted buildings and get free armed support for
a decade against all enemies... fucking cheap.

in a sentence. It's simple when you connect the (huge, very close together) dots - why can't the MSM do the same?

Thanks for summing that up so succinctly, beautiful, really says it all..

Using OUR Treasury as an ATM for Halliburton, legally protected by Baker, FOR Saudis, against Iran if there's a power vaccum in Iraq, while Pumping Iraq DRY, AND "saving" baby Bush IN the MEDIA.

A little too Incestuous to me, and DANGEROUS.

Incestuous INDEED!!


FLY

"15 saudi's" is written in pink neon 1 mile-high letters over ground zero.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1336167662031629480&q=%22painful+deceptions%22

This video, expecially the later parts of it, on top of just fucking pissing me off,
makes me want to puke.

Does Little Lord Pissypants KNOW ANYONE else but Poppy's henchmen? Isn't everyone sick to death of the same corrupt players over and over and over again? Last I looked, Poppy lost his election to Clinton. Why on earth should the US be endlessly dumped on by these criminals?

Baker is the REASON we are stuck in this mess in the first place. Remember 2000? I sure as hell do.

The old cabal is dragging itself out of its collective crypt. Now that they're emerging we need to hit them like Whack-a-Mole.

I'm worried about all this, too, symbolman. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2676345

:kick:

is almost the most benign thing he's done. Until 2000, I thought (hoped) he was dead.

For anyone (PTs) that does not believe what Michael is saying, take a few hours and google James Baker III.

Otherwise, isn't it an embarrassment to show your lack of history of our political world on a political board?

Don't believe Everything you read on the internets.

See your post #19

I just can't help myself sometimes.

I've been involved w/politics and began reading about them long before the internets came along. (Several decades before.)

Btw, your PT is showing.

I debate for a less conspiratorial view of the world at DU, but I doubt it would interest you. If it makes you feel better to call me a PT then you go right ahead.

term somewhat.. been thinking we should call it a PT CRUISER :)

Kind of reminiscent of a old time vehicle, but not really, has no guts under the hood like REAL American cars used to, and poops out pollution everywhere it goes..

Yeah I like that :)

A Legal Counterattack
Saudis hire some of the toniest U.S. law firms to defend them against the landmark $1 trillion lawsuit on behalf of the victims of 9-11. So why is the plaintiff’s counsel ecstatic? Plus, new heat on radical imam

Newsweek Web Exclusive

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3067906/

Let them get whatever lawyers they want, and let the trial proceed.

I hate that you can go to a web page on a major site and there's a DATE but no YEAR :)

Any idea what YEAR that was posted? I can't find it.. but a GREAT resource, thanks for that

Which of the data that is publicly available concerning Baker (or BakerBotts, if you want to go the extra mile) do you consider to be some grand conspiracy theory or a misrepresentation of his numerous acts of humanitarian charity?

I'm all in favor of due diligence, but if you're going to defend someone like Baker or Kissinger, you'd better have a clear argument as to why you want to polish up their halos. We're not buying it here, because most DUers understand that Baker is pond scum.

So please, tell us why we should take a fresh look at Baker. I'm all ears.

If you review all my posts in this thread I think you will agree, or else you misuderstand my intention. My pithy advice was in response to some advice that could be characterized very similarly.

Here's the original quote from Pastiche423:
"For anyone (PTs) that does not believe what Michael is saying, take a few hours and google James Baker III.

Otherwise, isn't it an embarrassment to show your lack of history of our political world on a political board?"

How is that pithy advice? Seems to me she's saying "do your own research before you spout off"--and that's certainly sage advice. I don't believe she said "find the most outrageous conspiracy theory you can find and believe every word of it," did she? Google (or any other Internet research) is the medium here, not the message.

Defending someone like Baker is beyond the pale. Shame!

Opinions are allowed to "vary" here on the DU, before it's considered to be INTERFERING with actual intelligent DISCOURSE.

If YOU disbelieve so much of what is said here, then WHY are you here? To save the DU from what are considered 'conspiracy theories' by YOU?

THe complaint about all of us painting with a broad brush seems to be trivial compared to the broad brush you seem to be painting so many of US with.

I'm curious as the other folks. How about PROVING your Points here if you are going to demand the same of US?

Half of your job is done, you've engaged people and wasted their time.

The only thing I differ with you on is with regard to the 9/11 lawsuit. I don't see that as a conflict of interest. His work on the debt relief is a different story. In general a hate Baker's guts as I indicated in some other post here. I think a few other posters took a similar position. Sorry you think I am interfering, I think everything I said was fair comment.

and am going to post on Takebackthemedia.com as well.

Let me know what you think, and pass it around if you like it :

*****

Poltergiest in the White House? by Symbolman of Takebackthemedia.com

I'm getting a picture in my mind.

It's that scene so famous in the Poltergiest movie where the little girl is kneeling in front of the TV between channels and saying, "They're HERE.."

Why?

Because they ARE HERE. Pay Attention. The "Poppyists" are BACK. Daddy Bush is sneaking in the back door of the White House, as Rummy flees through the front.

While we are all warm and fuzzy as Democrats, watching the TV Media honk like a gaggle of geese hot on the trail of a young boy's ass who wandered into the goose pen, the Bush Senior team is committing a 'silent coup' in our Govt.

Bush junior, that little waste product who runs companies into the ground and broke every toy ever given to him, is Relinquishing our Govt to his FATHER.

They are using the Bush Family FIXER to run a number down on the American people, and no one is paying attention. All of a sudden the Iran/Contra folks are showing up in DROVES, including their old buddy Manuel Ortega ( http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/11/08/MNGCCM81DS1.DTL&type=printable ) who just happened to show up on the old boob tube the other day, running for office again, as a Compassionate Contra.

Gates, Eagleburger, the same old crew. We're being traded out by the NeoCons for the old school Iran/Contra Team. So now we are supposed to Cheer that Baker will SAVE America? That the old family fixer is going to change juniors Diapers for us? Not a chance.

Doesn't anyone remember that James Baker orchestrated one of the biggest frauds in American History in Florida? Sent by Bush Senior as the "FIXER" once again.

And while the Media prattles on, "Gee whiz, we can't believe the American people just don't like the Right anymore. How could they settle for 'no plan' Democrats?" and STILL showing their Right Wing bent, we are all celebrating getting our Govt BACK from the Gang that couldn't Shoot Straight.

Well, while we're doing that, the Bush Senior Crew is descending like Vultures to tear away the game from the Idiot Son who has mauled it, but was never one to Clean his Plate, being born with a silver spoon in his Snout.

And that GAME is US.

No one recalls that Baker's Law firm was Hired BY the Saudis to REPRESENT THEM AGAINST the Families of the Victims of 911? ( http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1090180166698 ) Can you stomach THAT? I Can't. And I WON'T.

Isn't it ODD that he should do that? Isn't it ODD that MOST of the Terrorists according to THIS government were of Saudi Origin?

Doesn't that Represent a 'Conflict of Interest' in ANYONE'S mind? Does the Media report this?

Nope.

Should you know this?

Yep.

Let's just imagine these OIL MEN controlling or being controlled BY Saudis WHILE Baker, who has been put in charge of the world Forgiving Iraq Debt. (Code, slicing up the Iraq Oil Pie for his pals), having a foot in BOTH rather large Pools of OIL.

All while the Media just keep slapping it's head in disbelief over the election and letting us all know that WE voted FOR Conservatives, and NOT just because we hate Bush for killing our sons and daughter's for OIL (which he now admits to, that it WAS all about the Oil), and the enrichment of all those "Tooth to Tail" Military Reconstructionists, hiring corporations who DO NOT take an Oath to "serve and protect this country against enemies both WITHIN and without".

Firing Rummy and pinning War Crimes on him is just a Freakshow compared to what Bush Senior's pals have in store for us. It's part of the Three Card Monty game being played out before our eyes while the Media LOOKS THE OTHER WAY.

So now there are new noises banging around in the White House. New Ghosts, but familiar ones to anyone who remembers the Iran/Contra days. That KNOCKING you hear in the White House is not just Bush Junior's Knees. It's the Ghosts of Christmas past, and they do not come bearing Gifts. No. They're slithering down the chimney to steal all the presents under the TREE. They've done it before.

And they got away with it then. Let's not let them get away with it NOW.

They represent a nice big package, all tied in a BOW, running all the way back to when Baker assisted in the heist of the election, through 911 and right on up to the present invasion of the Poppyists.

Spread the word. INFORM the MEDIA. Demand ANSWERS about Baker and crew. Arm the Democrats. Tell them THIS WILL NOT STAND.

We did not vote in historic numbers just to have Bush "little boots" Junior throw up his hands and run crying to his daddy, dropping the mano a mano tough guy hysteria, and all of his broken TOYS, our Brothers and Sisters in Arms. In HARMS WAY because of HIM. Standing there in Iraq right NEXT to Halliburton thugs getting paid 5 times what they make, treated as McTroops by the Bush Junior Admin, and screwed on the way home by the defunding of the Veteran's Administration on the tail end.

We voted to THROW THE BUMS OUT.

And now they're sneaking in the back door. Be forwarned. They are SMOOTHER than any Oil slick Bush Junior has admired with Poppy, and like the Middle East folks like to say, "Don't let a Camel get it's nose in your tent. If you do, soon YOU will be sleeping outside, and the camel will have your bed."

****

Afraid to post it as a commentary on the DU, might drop like a rock, everyone is arguing about Impeachment while the thieves slide in the door of the White House.. the man that gave us Willie Horton, remember that as well :)

:kick:

wish I could roll these three threads into one, would be a nice feature on the DU, but there's so much info that's unique in them all right now that it must be shared..

Thinking of where else to get the word out, looks like Dowd is ON THIS as well. MAN is she GOOD!

We all know Bush Jr. couldn't run this country, the people running this country haven't changed since Reagan's time. Remember, Contra Guns, flying out of Arkansas, North was a common sight in the little town where they landed the planes to unload the coke and pick up the guns and Clinton slides into office while Bush sr. goes to work for a company selling arms to our present enemies. And all the time we want to bicker about gays and abortion and gun rights. Nice slight of hand. And while we were watching OJ in court they passed a law saying that any CIA agent caught dealing or importing drugs can't be held for breaking the law. Our whole frickin existence is a conspiracy of who can get the most and hang on to it the longest. And shame on you for thinking that anyone other then 19 flight school drop outs hijacked those planes and killed all of those people, Conspiracy nut bag, you have to believe the government's conspiracy theory or your unpatriotic. The only reason that this country still has it's lights on is that every other country in the world is floating us loans to keep a float. And when we light up the candles to see some morning their going to say " see shouldn't have elected those democrats bad for business" Maybe that's why they don't want to impeach Bush afraid of what "They" will pull the plug on.

Ramble
Ramble
Ramble.

Latr

The whole gang of em's corrupt.

and that speaks volumes

Baker's ties to The Carlyle Group. Just thinking of that outfit and all the behind-the-scenes strings they are pulling in this administration gives me the willies!
dumpbush

about WHO is Buying or HAS Bought the Dubai Ports, or the ones that everyone was freaking out over, not selling them to "Furriners".. I'm pretty sure that CARLYLE GROUP was IN on that one, hell, they MAY have bought our PORTS already..

And them Being Buddies with the SAME people who flew planes into the World Trade Center?

NO THANKS.

If Waxman wants to Investigate, rather than letting Poppy toss his son to the Dem Wolves ready to gobble him up, maybe Waxman needs to Investigate what's going on NOW first, WHO is gaining access to the WHite House and WHY, eh?

Thanks for the thoughts, forgot about that.. man, they really do never sleep, huh? :)

a part of them as well before he "became president"? I remember reading that he joined Carlyle after he got in trouble with an oil company for going against their wishes.

:kick:

Halliburton too?

And they're proud of it:
http://tinyurl.com/ylwov3

:hi:

But I'm wondering about the Port Sale, didn't they after all the hub bub had died down, let Carlyle bid on it?

Meaning that our ports would be bought by a shell company for the Saudis?

yes, you're right about the ports deal.

for defending Saddam. :banghead:

too much, no wonder mid east updates (copies) are sent to Sr. Bush as well as jr.

As a lawyer myself for many years, I can say with confidence that even if Baker's dual role as representative of the Saudi's re: 9/11 and advising the government on mideast policy isn't a technical conflict of interest, in certainly creates what is in legal terms "the appearance of impropriety", which every attorney is taught to avoid. It really isn't just a political vulnerability - it is really bad. He should cease to do one or the other.

I wasn't sure what the term was, not being a lawyer, but I've known many lawyers and this looks to be IMPROPER, much like the Cannons a Judge must abide by, etc..

I know they have SOME Rules as I have met lawyers with scruples that I admire, unlike some of the jokes out there :)

So it's not Technically Illegal, etc, do you think that Baker doesn't CARE about the "appearance of Impropriety"? Much like the rest of the Republicans who refuse to admit there are even laws, and retroactively gut them before they get caught in a ringer?

Seems like Baker has so much business he could care less, I mean assisting in the Theft of the Presidential Election looked pretty Improper to me :)

Thanks for the input, I was wondering exactly what he was doing that rubbed me the wrong way...

I suppose Baker could have convinced himself that these two issues could be kept completely separate, but this is wholly unrealistic and probably disingenuous. Maybe he is just used to being treated as above criticism, and it is true that the press has certainly not mentioned this. I have taken the liberty since reading this post of calling several attorneys and all are shocked. This problem should be given maximum publicity.

What will be interesting is if a dem brings up this potential "double role" during the proceedings.

Baker isn't a "savior" to Bush nor is his Pappy. It's all all about the Saudi's and not Bush. This Gates guy is connected to BCCI and the whole Iran/Contra affair. This guy should probably be in jail and not in this position he's in now. It's always the same people and always for the same people.

investigate the Iraq 'war' as a huge Money Laundering Operation, from our Treasury to Halliburton, to Baker, etc and put the bastards in jail on RICCO charges..

That sleaze bag Baker can go "Fuck himself".

US fucking him :)

:thumbsup:

That "Saint" Reagan and his thugs, some of these same ones stopped the prisoner exchange President Carter was trying to arrange. They got the Iranians to hold off the exchange and wait until Reagan took office. They were negotiating behind President Carter's back trying to accomplish this. So when you say they are a back stabbing bunch they really are. Giving the Iranians all those weapons and money during the Iran-Contra affair also. They started them on the road to WMD. How soon the public forgets.

and Basically what Reagan did was ILLEGAL as hell. You can't negotiate if you aren't the PREZ or someone in power, he had no HAND and no right to do so..

THEN, they even had those poor hostages sitting on a PLANE for 24 hours WAITING for the plane to take off so that Reagan could call it during the Inauguration, saying, "Even Now those hostages are on their way home.." kind of bullshit..

at that point HE was holding them Hostage.

Selling rifles to the Indians was a Hanging Offense in the WIld West days. :)

for those doubters of this, that THIS IS some kind of whacko conspiracy theory.. at 53 I was a young man then and WATCHED THIS HAPPEN LIVE. It was also all over the radio that THIS was ACTUALLY HAPPENING..

So don't tell me this is a MYTH. I LIVED IT. I was THERE.

They SHOWED the plane on the RUNWAY for 24 hours with those Hostages IN IT and Reagan talking Bullshit.

BUSH/REAGAN APOLOGIST BULLSHIT.

And I won't stand for this. You are discrediting DEMOCRATS at every turn while claiming that you are FOR THEM. I don't want to see this kind of APOLOGIST BULLSHIT on the DU.

If this isn't interference with a credible arguement about something VITAL to our security I don't know what IS, and I wish the Mods hadn't deleted your earlier posts which PROVE that you employing TECHNIQUE, and badly.

One from the Boston Globe the other from Newsweek. If you take the time to read them and still feel that way then I guess we will just differ on that. As for the rest of your rant, you really need to take a chill, most of the subthreads that were deleted were started by other posters not me.

deaths.
Danny Casolaro and three or four people he interviewed died. Then the lawyer for Casolaro (Wilcher) who claimed to have damning proof died and then, Steve Kangas a researcher looking into Bushie crimes died, and then the guy investigating these mysterious deaths and co-author of the book "Octopus" (Jim Keith) died.

Shit when you kill everybody associated with October Surprise, yea, it sure does kinda crimp the "legitimacy" of the story

for the company back in the 60's.

When President Bush appointed former Secretary of State James Baker III as his envoy on Iraq's debt on December 5, 2003, he called Baker's job "a noble mission." At the time, there was widespread concern about whether Baker's extensive business dealings in the Middle East would compromise that mission, which is to meet with heads of state and persuade them to forgive the debts owed to them by Iraq. Of particular concern was his relationship with merchant bank and defense contractor the Carlyle Group, where Baker is senior counselor and an equity partner with an estimated $180 million stake.

Until now, there has been no concrete evidence that Baker's loyalties are split, or that his power as Special Presidential Envoy--an unpaid position--has been used to benefit any of his corporate clients or employers. But according to documents obtained by The Nation, that is precisely what has happened. Carlyle has sought to secure an extraordinary $1 billion investment from the Kuwaiti government, with Baker's influence as debt envoy being used as a crucial lever.

The secret deal involves a complex transaction to transfer ownership of as much as $57 billion in unpaid Iraqi debts. The debts, now owed to the government of Kuwait, would be assigned to a foundation created and controlled by a consortium in which the key players are the Carlyle Group, the Albright Group (headed by another former Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright) and several other well-connected firms. Under the deal, the government of Kuwait would also give the consortium $2 billion up front to invest in a private equity fund devised by the consortium, with half of it going to Carlyle.

<http://www.thenation.com/doc/20041101/klein>

SORRY I DIDN'T NOTICE YOU POSTED THE SAME..I WAS JUST GOING THROUGH MY FILES..AND POSTED THIS SHORTLY AFTER YOU DID!! ...LOL..

FLY

Lobbyists have far too much power in politics. In this case it is actually the UN they are going to lobby to prevent the war reparations from being reduced. It doesn't sound like the Kuwatis are going to risk the money they have already received though.

in Bakers dual roles on the debt issue and his membership in Carlyle group. I still don't have a problem with him being in on the study of the Iraq war though. He adds credibility to that panel, without someone with his stature the repukes and independents would not take the study group proposal seriously.

AT THE COST OF OUR TREASURY AND OUR GREATEST TREASURY..OUR TROOPS...

this is a debt due and poppy knows it!

that is why you are seeing poppy's entorage coming in to run things..and he didn't politely tell junior to get out of the way..he has shoved junior out of the way!!

poppy has a hell of alot to hide..he is the evil empire..and junior is fucking it up!! and going to expose all of them!

i want baker the fuck out..he is not going to protect our interests or our troops..he is there to cover for poppys ass!

fly

I have never been treated like this in a thread before. I guess I am pissing you off huh? Tough shit pal.

FROM MY FILES..FLY

DO READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE!!


(November 1, 2004 issue)

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20041101/klein


James Baker's Double Life: A Special Investigation
Naomi Klein



When President Bush appointed former Secretary of State James Baker III as his envoy on Iraq's debt on December 5, 2003, he called Baker's job "a noble mission." At the time, there was widespread concern about whether Baker's extensive business dealings in the Middle East would compromise that mission, which is to meet with heads of state and persuade them to forgive the debts owed to them by Iraq. Of particular concern was his relationship with merchant bank and defense contractor the Carlyle Group, where Baker is senior counselor and an equity partner with an estimated $180 million stake.

Until now, there has been no concrete evidence that Baker's loyalties are split, or that his power as Special Presidential Envoy--an unpaid position--has been used to benefit any of his corporate clients or employers. But according to documents obtained by The Nation, that is precisely what has happened. Carlyle has sought to secure an extraordinary $1 billion investment from the Kuwaiti government, with Baker's influence as debt envoy being used as a crucial lever.

The secret deal involves a complex transaction to transfer ownership of as much as $57 billion in unpaid Iraqi debts. The debts, now owed to the government of Kuwait, would be assigned to a foundation created and controlled by a consortium in which the key players are the Carlyle Group, the Albright Group (headed by another former Secretary of State, Madeleine Albright) and several other well-connected firms. Under the deal, the government of Kuwait would also give the consortium $2 billion up front to invest in a private equity fund devised by the consortium, with half of it going to Carlyle.


SNIP:

The goal of maximizing Iraq's debt payments directly contradicts the US foreign policy aim of drastically reducing Iraq's debt burden. According to Kathleen Clark, a law professor at Washington University and a leading expert on government ethics and regulations, this means that Baker is in a "classic conflict of interest. Baker is on two sides of this transaction: He is supposed to be representing the interests of the United States, but he is also a senior counselor at Carlyle, and Carlyle wants to get paid to help Kuwait recover its debts from Iraq." After examining the documents, Clark called them "extraordinary." She said, "Carlyle and the other companies are exploiting Baker's current position to try to land a deal with Kuwait that would undermine the interests of the US government."

The Nation also showed the documents to Jerome Levinson, an international lawyer and expert on political and corporate corruption at American University. He called it "one of the greatest cons of all time. The consortium is saying to the Kuwaiti government, 'Through us, you have the only chance to realize a substantial part of the debt. Why? Because of who we are and who we know.' It's influence peddling of the crassest kind."

That whole crime family is full of mor(o)ns. They need outside blood.

Thanks for a great article there, flyarm.

Baker, BTW, did manage to get almost the entire $30-40 billion Iraq owed erased from the books.

and it explains a LOT. CROOKS, pure and simple, trading on the family names for Billions, cutting of the Iraq pie while our sons and daughters get blown to pieces, with Baker representing Halliburton who DOESN'T SUPPLY THE TROOPS to SAVE MONEY.

We need an ASSHOLE DISSOLVING RAY and put it in a sattelite, with any luck as it passes over Washington the city will be clean and pristine..

THIEVES, BIG Thieves and not a PEEP in the Media. ALl they want to talk about is how amazin it is that DEMOCRATS ACTUALLY WON and Election, woo hoo!!

We are being SCAMMED, and the Universe is TURNING, the TIME IS NOW. They MUST GO.

This has to be exposed, and thank god for flyarm and the Nation and those fighting this good fight.

Imagine what we could do for the poor and the suffering, the children of this nation if we STRIPPED these Monsters of ALL that MONEY.

They Hague needs to OVERFLOW. Its that time in history when all these killers and crooks need to be put in one spot with the eyes of the world watching and the Mouths saying, "Hear hear.. at LAST Justice is DONE."

We can't Heal until these people are JAILED, every last one of them.

Thanks for this post, Amazing.

Can you elaborate?

considering that there are so many. Isn't it specific banks, charities, and certain Saudi Royals?

we throw away such accusations. We don't want to become Fox news like for goodness sake.

and show us WHY you support these people. I'd like to know why you do not consider these people ABSOLUTELY CORRUPT, given what SO MANY know.

Are you young? Do you spend any time googling, looking into people like Baker? Have you seen Farenheit 911?

Are you an activist?

WHY should anyone BE FAIR to these Rat Bastards? Because SOME people aren't SURE IF they are Rat Bastards? And that makes US Fox news?

C'mon. Do some homework. You seem reasonable, and no reasonable person should have ANY reason to STICK UP for SUCH CORRUPTION.

It's like saying "Oh well, maybe Attilla the Hun was nice to his kids, he had a RIGHT to an attorney."

THIS IS OUR COUNTRY and THESE ARE TRAITORS who use the legal System AGAINST US, and THEY walk away clean. and YOU want to be FAIR?

Sorry, that makes no sense to me.

in fact there are thousands of Saudi Royals, and I don't believe they are all behind this either. I understand his point, also, that we don't want to become like Fox News, or NewsMax.com, or some idiot I happened to hear on AM radio the other day who blamed all our problems on "the Muslims".

The ones who are aligned with the BFEE are, as you say, absolutely corrupt.

people who were co-operating the murder of my co-workers..the bin laden family of saudi arabia..

Phillip Berg attorney files a RICO suit against little lord pissy pants ..for Mrs Mariani..http://www.nancho.net/911/mariani.html

and every time they were on any media they made statements ( both Berg and Mariani) that they would never commit suicide..what a fucking way to live to get justice for your loved one being murdered!

and who was representing those who financed Bin Laden????????

yes James Bakers law firm..the scum sucking fuckard!

so now we are supposed to be happy that that mother fucker is giving us a plan on Iraq..sorry..i want that fucker in prison! along with papa bush and the rest of the mother fuckers who had ties to the bin laden family..that is if you believe bin laden isn't a US agent of some proportion..

and i want the 9/11 commission held accountable for letting these bastards get away with this crime..that makes them an accessory to the crime!

do some background work on Lee Hamilton..everyone "thinks" that mother fucker is a dem..he is as bad as the rest..and who do we have working on this iraq commission?? Lee Fucking Hamilton..and who had financial ties with the saudi's big time?? Kean...

they all shit in the same pot!..and they are all the same shit!

Symbolman is correct..do some research..then come back and tell us we should not be furious..

those were my co-workers and my neighbors kids and husbands and wives who were killed that sunny day in september..

it could have easily been me as i flew out of Newark and was based in NY for one of the airlines involved...

i want those mother fuckers all brought up at the hague!! tommorrow is not soon enough!

and as 5 years just past..my neighbor ..who lost her son still bears the pain and is still in family counseling just to get through the days..and i mean.,.just getting through!

I am so angry that baker is even allowed near the white house let alone doing anything for this government..my government!

he should be charged with treason!

i want Hastert investigated..i want Sible Edmonds to testify and immediately have her gag order lifted..

this sob gates stopped..i have read he has former connections through Turkey...

i want all these fuckers stopped now!!

start looking into the deaths of Philip Merrill ,CIA Director Bill Colby,1978 death of CIA deputy director John A. Paisley..they were all men who knew too much!! about pissy pants and papa ...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/20/AR2006062001476.html

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKpaisley.htm


http://somd.com/news/headlines/2006/3954.shtml


just start diging ..there are endless places to look!for the pissy pants family crimes!!

fly

but it seems redundant. DO other countries BLAME the average citizen HERE for the Iraq war? Nope.

It's Bush Co's Fault.

WHO am I speaking of re the Saudis?

THE ONES IN CHARGE.

Does anyone think that Baker is representing the average Saudi, a guy that gets his food eating hand chopped off for stealing, in their wonderful legal system, so he has to be shamed and eat foot with his ass wiping hand..

Simple. Let's move forward, eh? :)

he's a corrupt bastard?

:shrug:

traitor.

I don't trust this motherfucker at all.

It makes me sick that a lot of Dems seem to be pretending he is some kind of guru...

for the folks that missed this thread over the weekend :)