We are entering a new era here at DU

DU started up in early 2001. But for a brief period from 2001 - 2003, the United States government has been controlled by the GOP. So for the majority of our time here at DU, Republicans have controlled both the White House and the Senate. We are about to enter, as a community, an era that we are unfamiliar with.

Prior to the election, we were absolutely united and focused on one goal. We got there together. And, maybe unfortunately, we won. Much of the reaction to the Democratic taking of Congress was predictable. Those of us that are progressive immediately claimed responsibility for the victory and are demanding impeachment. There are those that agree with the conventional thinking that impeachment should be off the table. There are those that have demonized Lieberman and are outraged by his likely chairmanship of the Homeland Security Committee and those that believe its the right thing to do.

However, we are overlooking how this victory happened and how it would have never been possible without the independent moderates. As I watch CNN now, Cafferty just said that Rove came to believe that the middle no longer existed meaning the GOP had forced everyone to take sides. Nothing could be further from the truth. The independents in the middle are very alive and very capable of swinging elections. Prior to this year, they were scared of the terrorists but then became aware of that man behind the curtain pulling the levers and jerking the chains to cause all the smoke and fire that was supposed to scare them. It was people like us here at DU, not to mention the Olbermans and Caffertys of the world that pulled back that curtain and the middle discovered they really were being deceived.

Now, through the combination of many individual efforts by diverse groups (including moderate independents), the Democrats have retaken Congress and cooler heads must prevail. We can impeach Bush for the sake of it rather than wait a short 24 months for him to be gone. (I prefer to just leave him were he's at then give him to the International Criminal Court to stand trial after he leaves office along with Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice and Gonzales. Remember that they are still finding former Nazi war criminals, including that elderly lady that was deported earlier this year so we don't need to be in a hurry.

So here at DU, we need to recognize that politics is the art of compromise. If Joe Lieberman gets a chairmanship, its better that he be chairman as a Democrat than a Republican. One way or another, Lieberman will be chairman of HOmeland Security. If Pelosi "makes nice" with Bush rather than continue the pre-election rhetoric, that's what she has to do. It doesn't mean she likes him now, it means she has to work with him. If there is a detente that develops, it doesn't mean the Democrats are no different than the Republicans. It means they have to get things done. We know now what happens when one party shoves it's agenda down everyone else's throat. We shouldn't do the same thing, but we should be measured and deliberate about building consensus.

All this will make for trying times here at Du and I'm afraid our tendency for infighting will cause some real problems. We've all got to realize that Pelosi, Reid and Dean are no dummies. They got us here and they're not stupid enough to give it all away in 2 years. So let's just all understand that there will be things happen we personally may not like or agree with and we will get pissed. But let's not get into a position two years from now where we have been infighting for so long and can no longer work together. Unfortunately, that is the history of the Democratic Party in the 35+ years that I've been involved in it.

Thanks for your insights. I've been thinking similar thoughts.

There is only biconceptualism. Read the new "handbook for Progressives" by George Lakoff. In particular, read Chapter 2, which you can download free here: http://www.RockridgeInstitute.org/ThinkingPoints

NGU.

...pinned, if possible, to the top of GD. Lakoff should be required reading for all DUers.

Thanks.

http://www.rockridgeinstitute.org/thinkingpoints/

I know what I'll be reading tonight.

of HLS that is.....maybe he can atone for Brownie and his six min. conformation hearing.

BTW, this is a great post. :toast: Having been here from the beginning, I have often wondered what would happen when our goals were achieved. We shall see.....

(or something like that) and his American Conservative Union rating is like 17%. Lieberman is a liberal that also, for some reason, sees it that he has to support the war.

much for our side on social issues for years.

of hundreds of thousands.

Priorities.

than other forms of death? I have argued with right to life idiots who consider unborn more important than the living and I do not see any difference in your argument. Death cannot be prioritized. I agree that he should be kept away from any war powers committees but Homeland Security is hardly in that category.

but if you cancelled all of the social programs Joe's voted for over the years the casualties wouldn't come close to what we've seen in Iraq in the last three years. Joe has done more than his share for keeping GE and his other CT defense contractors in the black at the expense of the lives of Iraqi daughters who, I can assure you, were as dear to their Dads as yours is to you.

the war thing.....

...in post-war germany? I don't think that comparison is hyperbole-- I see the republican administration and it's enablers in the legislative branch as little better than Nazis, only this time there isn't a "sleeping giant" available to stop them unless it's the same sleeping giant-- the American people-- who stopped the fascists during WWII. There is an ideological wing of the republican party that MUST be stamped out like cockroaches, not embraced as co-equal partners in government, at least not in the America I want to leave for my children.

Germany was defeated militarily. We were successful working within our American system in removing these facists. We have to continue winning elections.

There are a lot of members of that ideological wing of the GOP that can be turned over to international courts after the next presidential election and I think that is the way to handle it. THat would then crush the rest of the ideologues.

not aware of what was to come if he was not stopped. We are, thanks to history.

There is obviously more going on than just the vote. The media is moderately unbiased towards us-- at the moment. That will end the first time a Democrat makes a mistake--which will happen at some point. None of us can really say how long the neo-conservative monster will stay down. Is it only comatose? Is it only sleeping? It is certainly not dead. It has every opportunity to revive itself through the conservative elements of our party.

I'm willing to tolerated a high-minded approach at the outset of this new win. But we cannot "work with" these monsters. We can only force them to our side. If I see democrats "tactfully" working towards bipartisanship on issues such as "John Bolton", "Conservative Supreme Court Nominees", or "Martial Law Powers," in order to gain seats in 2008, I will be highly disappointed and skeptical about their cynical approach--but I will hold my nose and vote for them in 2008. And if by 2009 the Democratic strategy has not WORKED-- ie. returned our country to us by winning us a Democratic president who will overturn the MCA, overturn large swaths of the PATRIOT ACT, and overturn a good portion of the legislation enacted by the Bush Republicans, I think the progressive base of the Democratic party will entirely abandon it because it will have, effectively, become a useless piece of apparatus against the neo-conservative machine.

I am skeptical that the entire neo-conservative movement will just "give up" because of one loss in the midterms-- and I am absolutely certain that they cannot be reasoned with. Not conservatives--neo-conservatives. And anyone who thinks that Democrats can reason with neo-conservatives, simply doesn't understand what a neo-conservative is.

I agree that they need to be turned over to international courts. Why not? They are international criminals. Let's not let this win get to our heads. We need to keep our wits about us.

and by no means the only thing that needs to be done. It's only a start. It will take many years. But these people must be crushed and their leaders made an example. That's why I say don't impeach Bush, wait until after 2008 then send them all to the Hague to demoralize their base.

believe that "later" doesn't mean "never". I'll wait. I will give the benefit of the doubt until 2008 (if not elected) and 2009 (if elected). After that, I fucking swear. I SWEAR. If their little play-nice hijinks don't yield a win for a Dem party united against the neo-cons, then the Democratic party will be fundamentally over and a new party will have to oppose them.

...and they're the ones we would have to cooperate with. Dems have a majority, and can set the agenda, but the neofascist republicans are still in office, just a bit fewer of them.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERresistance.htm

It's not going offtopic when making a comparison to the Third Reich and the RW extremists that enabled this "administration" to be installed.

I believe it was Rahm Emanuel that first claimed total responsibility for the victory, not any progressive.

I read nothing in the constitution that said impeachment is purely a opinion mechanism.

We've seen these criminals abuse our system of government before. That was due to no impeachment IMO. Maybe you will see them tomorrow and possibly more of the same. Who knows? It's happened.

though I think the Dems only had a congressional majority for a couple months or so in 2002...

I wrote about this months ago in my journal. The problem is, in focusing toward unity on a political website, it seems to me, that without arguing over trifles there would be little to actually talk about now that the unifying force of getting rid of the Repugs is gone. We can talk about whether to impeach, or not. Whether to bring the troops home now, or next month. Et cetera. But I am afraid that the "new era" will mean lesser importance for liberal blogs and websites. We shall see if I am correct. Or not.

For most of my life, Democrats were the majority party in Congress. We're good leaders. Don't think we have anything to worry about.

Yes, politics is necessary, but will the Democrats in congress stand up to not only not letting the republicans shove their agenda down their throats but start shoving their own? I want investigations. I want them to get rid of the anti-Habeas Corpus legislation. I want the unPATRIOTact removed. Getting even? Shoving the Democratic agenda down anyones throat?

No. I want justice and I want humane constitutional things to happen. I am really tired of the arrogance, the mean spiritedness, the lies, manipulations, harm to We the People and everything the Republican Fundamentalist Big Business Party has done.

A spine. I want several spines. No more Kum Bay Yah. No more Ms.NiceUppityperson.

Part of our task now becomes oversight of our own parties members of Congress to insure they follow through.
We will have to at times sell their agenda while at other times reminding them the work for the people. We will need to continue to write letters & make phone calls.
Our job will never be done as long as there is a cause for "The People"

to start picking on us Greens in here. I left the Democratic Party in the Clinton years as I was already near the edge of total disillusionment over the electing of Reagan in 1980, a man many had forgotten had called for the killing of dissidents on the UC campus in Berkeley as Governor before moderating it to a call to expel dissident students and fire faculty members involved in dissent.

The 1994 takeover of Congress nearly ruptured my spleen I was so aggrieved. I hope Democrats are not fooled by the sociopathic "ready to make nice" crap th Chimperor is exuding. He is a dangerous murderer whose very presence as a free man not in custody is offensive, never mind the crisis his current job puts the United Stats and the world in.

Work with the Repugs in Congress, but show him no quarter. I want the 110th Congress to be a success, and I want the 111th Congress to have way more Democrats in it and I demand a Democratic POTUS. The Repugs at this point deserve to o the way of the Whig party and I could never work or deal with any of them personally.

They are so evil I feel sorry for elephants because they are the GOP symbol. A hyena would be far more appropriate then that animal, and regardless of my party affiliation, I am working full time next election doing grass roots work to help make sure the GOP gets out of the White House.

I also want Senator Gordon Smith of Oregon to go too. As far as I'm concerned, since Wayne Morse was defeated by Bob Packrat in 1968, Oregon has not had a senator of any note. I want that to change. Sorry for the rant, but I consider the results of this election an appetizer, and I'm ready for the main course of Republican rump roast.

"We" can't impeach Bush. The House of Representatives does that. We can only have an opinion on it.

And I for one will continue to speak my mind whenever I have an opinion, whether you regard that as deleterious infighting or not.

I'm sure you mean well, but I take real exception to six paragraphs of being lectured. ESPECIALLY the "maybe unfortunately, we won" part. What the hell!

Lots of news stories are born here, and so many writers on this board are political history experts. We have the ability to toss facts and assumptions around and see what sticks. Imagination is more important that information or power.

I think pundits and bloggers read us. Surely we gather information here and send it along to the senate and congress, and news agencies and even advertisers. The candidates depend on us to level the playing field.

And there's no way to ever measure the way this board has furthered the learning curve. I learned everything I know about politics from this board and the books that were recommended to me here, and I've moved alot of people to the left with the information I gather here.

With parenthood and a full time job, this board makes it possible to sit down for 30 minutes and know what's going on nationally and what it all means. I don't have time to read all the blogs and news sites. So, with DU I don't have to.

And the best part is how we disagree. Without that, we wouldn't learn anything.

I think the last election was won because of this board and Air America radio. I really do. I think we've kept Keith Olberman going, and the lawmakers now know that their dirty laundry will be put under the DU microscope. Never underestimate that power.

This is a powerful force. That's why it thrives.

Thanks to everyone who comes in here everyday to rant and teach me. You all were my sanity when I thought I was the only one in 2000 who saw the new president as a chimpanzee.

He wants to redirect how we talk. I don't like that. I agree with your line of thinking—we should continue to debate and toss assumptions around and learn so that the party leaders know what our concerns are. If we censor ourselves so that we don't seem to disagree, as the OP seems to want us to do, we lose our reason for being.

I like this board. I don't like somebody preaching to me that I'm supposed to act a certain way on it, or else it will "cause real problems." If the OP feels that disagreeing on DU will possibly lead to no longer being able to work together, then that is the OP's insecurity problem. He is trying to make it ours, and I don't like it.

Granted the discussion gets heated at times but personally, I like charged debate. It doesn't make a rat's ass of difference in the grand scheme.

Here's what does make a difference: I'm just wondering how anyone in the Dem leadership can ignore that the president has broken the law. We're not talking about blow jobs or parking tickets here--we're talking about major breaches of federal law -- felonies -- which cannot be allowed to stand, for the sake of the future integrity of the Constitution.

Ignoring these transgressions is blind obeisance, and a crime in itself. I will never sign on to the idea that we should all kiss and make up now.

Let's leave the fuck off attitudes and name calling of each other to the freepers. How about some actual debate with point and counterpoint without trashing and degrading a fellow Democrat for having a minority opinion? Finally, some here are so noble and pure and right that I don't know how they stand living with themselves. You have God, Jesus, and the Impeachment Now 24/7 crowd.
God forbid if they have to actually wait a few months.

When you frame it as such, you are perpetuating the lies of the right-wing propaganda machine, which apparently is at work in the Democratic party as well. Impeachment was designed and often used by our founding fathers as a means of keeping the executive branch of government in check. It is NOT a partisan procedure. It will NOT prevent other investigations or criminal proceedings. And it will NOT ruin our chances for 2008. We can get along when the lying stops.

Perhaps DU needs a new forum: The Anger Management Forum.

We are a nation of laws. Laws were broken the chips should fall where they may. Anything else is accessory after the fact and criminal behavior. Iran Contra proves you cannot let this type of behavior go.

The rug you want to sweep this under is so lumpy already our children are already falling.

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

And we should be civilized about it. The key words from the posts above are honesty, justice, and civility. There is still much to do.

--IMM

you are correct.

The extreme left wing of the Democratic party is not much more helpful to us than the extreme right wing of the Republican party is to them; very few on the far left are capable of pragmatism. I have of course more sympathy for the left wing, being pretty leftist myself; OTOH, while my beliefs are considerably to the left of the... hmmm, how shall I say it? the "center" of the Democratic party?... I also acknowledge, having watched the circus in Washingtoon, District of Comedians, for four decades, and studied its history all the way back to its origins, as well as the history of all of us in the same way, that most people in the US just aren't nearly as far to the left economically as I am. Worse, many of the leftists are far more authoritarian than I am; and quite frankly I see that as quite a bit the greater evil. Worst of all, many of them will not admit it. And frankly, I don't see most of the DLC as being a great deal better; they are both very authoritarian, and far to the right, not just of me, but of Dean and Pelosi, if not Reid. Hell, AFAICT, they're to the right of Joe Liebermann, and even some of the Republicans who got voted out this week!

OTOH, despite the fact that I quite strongly disagree with the positions of the leadership of our party, and in some cases their past actions, I nevertheless support them. The alternative is a descent back into the hell that I have (along with you all) experienced for all but two of the last twenty-six years. I strongly suggest you all not lose sight of that fact.

Now, I'll be clear, and frank: I support nationalized

• health care,
  
• banking,
  
• insurance,
  
• food and clothing production and distribution,
  
• personal and goods transportation, and
  
• communications.
  

I strongly support environmental regulation and protection, and I support it over property rights. In fact, it is my position that no one can own land; one can own the rights to use it, but there are limits to how it can be treated that must be enforced, both for the protection of those who use the land nearby, and future generations. It is in fact the case that such laws are actually enforced; if you buy a house in the suburbs, good luck trying to mine your land, or engage in a noisy or polluting activity on it. I see no difference between this and requiring a farmer to file an environmental impact statement.

And these are pretty far left opinions (though they are by no means all of them; we'd be here for hours). So how can I support Pelosi, and Reid, and Dean? They almost certainly don't support all or even most of these ideas, and even if they do, would never be unwise enough to do so on the record.

Well, here it is: the alternative is to return to the wilderness. And I've been there for the last twenty-six years, for all but two. And during that two, I got to watch these precise same fights disintegrate the unity of my party, after which I got the last twelve years. And while they were impeaching the Big Dog, I was swearing at the idiots in my own party who had made it possible by doing so much infighting that we didn't get anything done when we had it ALL. I beg you all to remember the last twelve years, and to remember that this type of infighting preceeded it. PLEASE think about it.

If a Republican is corrupt, or voting for measures that we disagree with we should yell our heads off. The same is true for Democrats.

As an example. When some self-serving Democratic politicians voted for torture, they deserved every bit of condemnation they got here, and more.

We don't "owe" them anything..certainly not our silent acquiescence when they do wrong or fail us.

eventhough many would like to spin it as such. There was way too much support by fiscal conservatives in this election to ignore their effect on the election, and I'm sure many would appreciate a deep investigation into the corruption.

"politics is the art of compromise"


It turns folks off who expect for the wheels to be greased after the victory. It gets messy.

it sounds fine, but think about the past 6 years. did the republicans make nice with the democrats for the sake of actually accomplishing anything that would be good for the entire country? hell no. they are the the maestros of partisan spin. they lie, and way too rarely do they ever get called out on their lies. their best defense has often been not really a "good" offense, but certainly a vocal and relentless offense.

and behind that they appropriated and/or were awarded unprecedented power. they've been running roughshod over our democracy, shredding the constitution they swore to uphold (see what i mean? liars). they have gotten away with murder plus a plethora of various assorted sundry crimes - HIGH crimes, all the way up to murder.

I believe that if congress is successfully redirected to performing the job they signed up for in keeping with their promise to uphold the constitution that impeachment is inevitable - and if these people escape justice after all they have done i may come to wonder if the hopeful good feelings i've enjoyed since tuesday were not only premature, but based on a load of crap as well.

When integrity is sacrificed for political gamesmanship, it's the people of this country who suffer.

Playing nice with repukes is the DLC way. :puke: :puke: :puke:

This country has been going down the wrong road for more than 43 years.
The worst of it has come as the result of what are -- at best -- crooks.
Most likely, they are traitors.

Let the light of day shine on every corner of the government.
Each skeleton unearthed requires a full accounting.
Of course, this is all going on simultaneously with determining responsibility for 754,000 deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan.

We need the Truth. We the People will know what then needs to be done.

Jim Jeffords jumped ship around mid-2001 and gave control of the Senate to the Democrats until the Democrats lost the Senate in the 2002 elections, sworn in in January 2003. You figure it out.

But as one who never wavered in the first place, I feel like the faithful one who stayed home and did everything right in the story of The Prodigal Son.

But still want to hold the DINO's feet to the fire when they stick their thumbs in our economic eyes again.