Blabbing on DU doesn't do much good

Unless a posting starts a grass-roots movement... I once read about this skinny foreign jailbird that took on one of the greatest empires in history. Seems this little old man was able to convince most of India to boycott several key products. The guy knew where to kick an economic giant; right where it hurts... His name was Gandhi.

I've seen numerous postings on DU about media. Seems many here think it's a mouthpiece for the machine but that's not entirely true quite yet. You see, I worked in media and guess what? It's not so complex after all. It doesn't take a 10th degree spin-doctor media consultant to see profits drive Media. If you don't like how they report; report them. If a sponsor gets too man letters, they will pull their advertisement from a medium. Those advertising bucks are VERY finicky. If one well-written letter is read by a media buyer, it sends up a red flag... More letters - more issues at the newspaper or station.

than before and has helped foster grass roots movements (heard of the blogosphere)

psst... pass the word ;->

peace

:popcorn:

:popcorn: :popcorn: :popcorn:

I'm all popcorned out. Hate it when that happens.



Keith’s Barbeque Central

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This is like the water cooler...people bitch, they moan, they show off, but little if any work gets done. This place is like herding cats since there are as many opinions and ideas on how things should be as there are members.

If you're looking for something further, I'd look around the specific Discussion group folders where you can network with people and see what develops there. But don't expect miracles and people to jump up and down at any ideas...there've been too many and too many people either burnt or confused around here.

If you're looking for real activism, it starts with shoe leather and remains that way. There's surely a Democratic party office that could use your help. That's where the real change can and must begin.

Merry Holidays...

the lounge :evilgrin:

peace

:popcorn:

".....people bitch, they moan, they show off, but little if any work gets done."


:hi: Merry Christmas

I also suspect that politics has always been a .01% proposition. no matter how impassioned we get in our speeches, we really only activate a fraction of those who hear.

That being said...we speak to MANY more people now via the internet. And while it may seem like a small number, I suspect that there are a number of politicians and activists of all levels who are in the game now because of the slow steady inspiration they recieved in places like this.

I know I hadn't thought about running for even a local office before. Now I'm looking around my town to see what seats might have a place for me. And a lot of the energy I have got to do that has come from the debates I've seen online. If I only watched TV I'd probably just give up. But by blogging I've kept myself in the game. And as a consequence write more letters to my congress critters, share more information with those I know...and plan on trying to get myself elected to some minor thingamabobber in the not so distant future.

I think if places like DU make politics a .02% proposition they have achieved something valuable. And while it may be hard to notice at times, it is happening. Maybe some others who've actually gone out and got on a board or committee etc can share their stories as well.

I've been here about a year. I lurked for a while. Then joined. I checked in on most of the forums, especially the Illinois one since I live here. Last spring I spotted a request by 3 guys looking to bike across the country beginning August 1 and ending in Washington DC in time for the September rally. They needed homes to stay in across the country.

I responded and told them they would be welcome. My first act of activism.

I then immersed myself in making posters and communicating with other Chicago area peace groups in order to create a "peace potluck picnic" to welcome the guys to my house. I mastered press releases and interviews with the local press.

I got a local bike club to sponsor repairs for their bikes. Then the bike club decided to bike with the guys to Indiana.

My activism was growing during last spring and summer. I attended vigils and rallies and caught fire.

3 days before my bike4peace guys were due to arrive I got a call from Cindy Sheehan's organization. They wanted to join my peace potluck and host a rally at my place!

And we did. 400+ people came to my "little" rally in Dupage County, Illinois - Henry Hyde's district. One of the reddest counties in the country, so red we have had every single Republican candidate for President march in our July 4th parade.

Since then I've spoken at rallies and attended more anti-war demonostrations.

And I plan on doing more and more.

All because of DU. All because of one post asking for host families....

Don't ever think DU doesn't work. It educates. It informs. It connects. It's a dynamic form of grass roots activism in a media world saturated by the right wing.

I know first hand.

A wonderful cartoon appeared in a local news paper. W defends his unconstitutional surveillance by saying his administration "listens".

Or don't you? I'm aware of Ghandi, Abe Lincoln, Martin Luther King, John F. Kennedy,
And I agree, profits drive media. Do some research on who owns the media outlets, then you'll realize who/what we're up against.
"If you don't like how they report, report them." Report to who, the owners?
Please, avail me of a solution!

FYI, Clear Channel is buying up all the electronic and outdoor media they can lay their hands on and their holdings are incredible. If you read a paper there's a good chance Time/ Warner influences the news content. All that aside, in my experience, advertisers are incredibly easy to spook. You'd be amazed at the profound influence a single well-written has in an ad deal. In the best case scenario, it costs the station some cash and in the worst instance it's a deal breaker. Don't just flip away when those commercials run... Be like SANTA, make a list! Heck, your local newspaper is a self made list. That Indian fella really knew how it works, though. Don't just bluff with a letter: Boycott the sponsors and let them know you're busily recruiting others to do the same. Be polite and reasonable in the letter.

As for shoe leather, I think I hear the ghost of Thomas Payne whispering in my ear. shhhh... He says it starts with a printing press, then some leather. I bet I can still run a small press but my old pals in that industry run them daily down here in the Bible-belt.

ta make the world go round . . .

What a worthless fucking post. Did writing that make you feel smart?

If DU was useless it woudlnt' have any members.

The people here get something out of it. DU isn't here to solve the worlds problems its here to build a community, and it has accomplished that.

Negativity and defeatism will get us nowhere and it's not justified. I will admit I get discourged sometimes (mostly after the speeches) until I see Pelosi, Murtha, et. al. come back and kick ass!!

you might be surprised: it's not single posts that start grassroots movements, but discussions and exchanging of information that do.

if you think it's so bad, why are you here?!

Too the silent majority reading this posting:

If you suggest actually doing something about a problem, like writting letters and boycott, expect a response much like the preceeding ones but you readers better believe the machine has it's flying monkies posting in here... In fact, I personally think DU is the greatest thing since sliced bread and I used the tag-line for it's reader shock value. Now, don't get me wrong, preaching to the choir at this site is a relief, after dealing with closed minds in Alabama all these years. I'm still trying to help a few of the locals see the light but the road is long and sometimes i feel like Jobe.

I still think your original post wasn't worth the time it took to write it out.

Last time I talk to you, then.

it is at the bottom of the screen you type responses in. Just thinking it might get you better raises at your media job and more respect here.

If you post a message requesting a *specific* action for people to take (letters to a particular paper, going to a meeting on such-and-such a date, joining someone's campaign who needs help, flyer distribution, marching somewhere), you'll have a HUGE response with people saying they are doing it. And later, you'll get posts from people who DID do it, showing pictures of the march, rally, convention, envelope stuffing - whatever. They DO respond, they DO work and they don't whine about it - not really.

I'm sorry you're going through some phase of feeling sorry for yourself, but don't take it out on us. But this preaching thing is just goofy. You don't know what you're talking about.

Where you been?:shrug:

A pretty common one.

There's an InfoWar on. One side uses the mass media to propage their Big Lies.

The good guys tell the Truth, but have to use word of mouth, the Internet and too few good journalists.

So here's where I turn when the likes of The New York Times shill for Bush...



BTW: A hearty welcome to DU, Jeffersons Ghost. Merry Christmas to you and yours!

marked, thank you, and happy 2006 (almost). :toast:

Thank you for the kind words.

Here's something BeHereNow got me thinking on...

The more we understand our universe, the more we realize what a blessing it is to be part of it:



Allen Watts or Krishnamurti or Sri Somebody said that the enlightened person is the one who knows he or she is blessed.



Peace and joy to you and all good people in the new year!

kudos for a great post and the history of the happening's.

writes about this in his great works of fiction.






Welcome to the Garden of Forking Paths, one of the most intriguing areas of the Libyrinth of Allexamina. Here you will find access to the garden planted by J.L. Borges, the Argentine writer, poet and philosopher. Although I tend the garden as well as I can, beware: among these sprawling labyrinths you will find illusions most seductive and truths most elusive. Let me show you around.
Look, here – a beautiful poppy, yes? But some say that it has the power to unravel time. And here: yes, this narcissus-flecked pool. The locals contend that if you gaze into its depths too long, you are in danger of merging with your reflection and losing all sense of Self; for your image becomes that of all men. And there, a gallery of mirrors most enigmatic; and hanging here, by this coin: the skin of a most unusual tiger....

Until now, is was only a theory. Good to see that someone is trying to prove it. It is the stuff that the original Star Trek's transporter was based. It would also prove to be a faster than light machine. Good stuff!

Thanks, Octafish.

Beyond Vietnam: A Time to Break Silence
By Rev. Martin Luther King
4 April 1967
Speech delivered by Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., on April 4, 1967, at a meeting of Clergy and Laity Concerned at Riverside Church in New York City


I come to this magnificent house of worship tonight because my conscience leaves me no other choice. I join with you in this meeting because I am in deepest agreement with the aims and work of the organization which has brought us together: Clergy and Laymen Concerned about Vietnam. The recent statement of your executive committee are the sentiments of my own heart and I found myself in full accord when I read its opening lines: "A time comes when silence is betrayal." That time has come for us in relation to Vietnam.

The truth of these words is beyond doubt but the mission to which they call us is a most difficult one. Even when pressed by the demands of inner truth, men do not easily assume the task of opposing their government's policy, especially in time of war. Nor does the human spirit move without great difficulty against all the apathy of conformist thought within one's own bosom and in the surrounding world. Moreover when the issues at hand seem as perplexed as they often do in the case of this dreadful conflict we are always on the verge of being mesmerized by uncertainty; but we must move on.

Some of us who have already begun to break the silence of the night have found that the calling to speak is often a vocation of agony, but we must speak. We must speak with all the humility that is appropriate to our limited vision, but we must speak. And we must rejoice as well, for surely this is the first time in our nation's history that a significant number of its religious leaders have chosen to move beyond the prophesying of smooth patriotism to the high grounds of a firm dissent based upon the mandates of conscience and the reading of history. Perhaps a new spirit is rising among us. If it is, let us trace its movement well and pray that our own inner being may be sensitive to its guidance, for we are deeply in need of a new way beyond the darkness that seems so close around us.

Over the past two years, as I have moved to break the betrayal of my own silences and to speak from the burnings of my own heart, as I have called for radical departures from the destruction of Vietnam, many persons have questioned me about the wisdom of my path. At the heart of their concerns this query has often loomed large and loud: Why are you speaking about war, Dr. King? Why are you joining the voices of dissent? Peace and civil rights don't mix, they say. Aren't you hurting the cause of your people, they ask? And when I hear them, though I often understand the source of their concern, I am nevertheless greatly saddened, for such questions mean that the inquirers have not really known me, my commitment or my calling. Indeed, their questions suggest that they do not know the world in which they live.

In the light of such tragic misunderstandings, I deem it of signal importance to try to state clearly, and I trust concisely, why I believe that the path from Dexter Avenue Baptist Church -- the church in Montgomery, Alabama, where I began my pastorate -- leads clearly to this sanctuary tonight.

I come to this platform tonight to make a passionate plea to my beloved nation. This speech is not addressed to Hanoi or to the National Liberation Front. It is not addressed to China or to Russia.

Nor is it an attempt to overlook the ambiguity of the total situation and the need for a collective solution to the tragedy of Vietnam. Neither is it an attempt to make North Vietnam or the National Liberation Front paragons of virtue, nor to overlook the role they can play in a successful resolution of the problem. While they both may have justifiable reason to be suspicious of the good faith of the United States, life and history give eloquent testimony to the fact that conflicts are never resolved without trustful give and take on both sides.

Tonight, however, I wish not to speak with Hanoi and the NLF, but rather to my fellow Americans, who, with me, bear the greatest responsibility in ending a conflict that has exacted a heavy price on both continents.

The Importance of Vietnam
Since I am a preacher by trade, I suppose it is not surprising that I have seven major reasons for bringing Vietnam into the field of my moral vision. There is at the outset a very obvious and almost facile connection between the war in Vietnam and the struggle I, and others, have been waging in America. A few years ago there was a shining moment in that struggle. It seemed as if there was a real promise of hope for the poor -- both black and white -- through the poverty program. There were experiments, hopes, new beginnings. Then came the buildup in Vietnam and I watched the program broken and eviscerated as if it were some idle political plaything of a society gone mad on war, and I knew that America would never invest the necessary funds or energies in rehabilitation of its poor so long as adventures like Vietnam continued to draw men and skills and money like some demonic destructive suction tube. So I was increasingly compelled to see the war as an enemy of the poor and to attack it as such.

Perhaps the more tragic recognition of reality took place when it became clear to me that the war was doing far more than devastating the hopes of the poor at home. It was sending their sons and their brothers and their husbands to fight and to die in extraordinarily high proportions relative to the rest of the population. We were taking the black young men who had been crippled by our society and sending them eight thousand miles away to guarantee liberties in Southeast Asia which they had not found in southwest Georgia and East Harlem. So we have been repeatedly faced with the cruel irony of watching Negro and white boys on TV screens as they kill and die together for a nation that has been unable to seat them together in the same schools. So we watch them in brutal solidarity burning the huts of a poor village, but we realize that they would never live on the same block in Detroit. I could not be silent in the face of such cruel manipulation of the poor.

My third reason moves to an even deeper level of awareness, for it grows out of my experience in the ghettoes of the North over the last three years -- especially the last three summers. As I have walked among the desperate, rejected and angry young men I have told them that Molotov cocktails and rifles would not solve their problems. I have tried to offer them my deepest compassion while maintaining my conviction that social change comes most meaningfully through nonviolent action. But they asked -- and rightly so -- what about Vietnam? They asked if our own nation wasn't using massive doses of violence to solve its problems, to bring about the changes it wanted. Their questions hit home, and I knew that I could never again raise my voice against the violence of the oppressed in the ghettos without having first spoken clearly to the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today -- my own government. For the sake of those boys, for the sake of this government, for the sake of hundreds of thousands trembling under our violence, I cannot be silent.

For those who ask the question, "Aren't you a civil rights leader?" and thereby mean to exclude me from the movement for peace, I have this further answer. In 1957 when a group of us formed the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, we chose as our motto: "To save the soul of America." We were convinced that we could not limit our vision to certain rights for black people, but instead affirmed the conviction that America would never be free or saved from itself unless the descendants of its slaves were loosed completely from the shackles they still wear. In a way we were agreeing with Langston Hughes, that black bard of Harlem, who had written earlier:


O, yes,
I say it plain,
America never was America to me,
And yet I swear this oath--
America will be!

Now, it should be incandescently clear that no one who has any concern for the integrity and life of America today can ignore the present war. If America's soul becomes totally poisoned, part of the autopsy must read Vietnam. It can never be saved so long as it destroys the deepest hopes of men the world over. So it is that those of us who are yet determined that America will be are led down the path of protest and dissent, working for the health of our land.

As if the weight of such a commitment to the life and health of America were not enough, another burden of responsibility was placed upon me in 1964; and I cannot forget that the Nobel Prize for Peace was also a commission -- a commission to work harder than I had ever worked before for "the brotherhood of man." This is a calling that takes me beyond national allegiances, but even if it were not present I would yet have to live with the meaning of my commitment to the ministry of Jesus Christ. To me the relationship of this ministry to the making of peace is so obvious that I sometimes marvel at those who ask me why I am speaking against the war. Could it be that they do not know that the good news was meant for all men -- for Communist and capitalist, for their children and ours, for black and for white, for revolutionary and conservative? Have they forgotten that my ministry is in obedience to the one who loved his enemies so fully that he died for them? What then can I say to the "Vietcong" or to Castro or to Mao as a faithful minister of this one? Can I threaten them with death or must I not share with them my life?

Finally, as I try to delineate for you and for myself the road that leads from Montgomery to this place I would have offered all that was most valid if I simply said that I must be true to my conviction that I share with all men the calling to be a son of the living God. Beyond the calling of race or nation or creed is this vocation of sonship and brotherhood, and because I believe that the Father is deeply concerned especially for his suffering and helpless and outcast children, I come tonight to speak for them.

This I believe to be the privilege and the burden of all of us who deem ourselves bound by allegiances and loyalties which are broader and deeper than nationalism and which go beyond our nation's self-defined goals and positions. We are called to speak for the weak, for the voiceless, for victims of our nation and for those it calls enemy, for no document from human hands can make these humans any less our brothers.

Strange Liberators
And as I ponder the madness of Vietnam and search within myself for ways to understand and respond to compassion my mind goes constantly to the people of that peninsula. I speak now not of the soldiers of each side, not of the junta in Saigon, but simply of the people who have been living under the curse of war for almost three continuous decades now. I think of them too because it is clear to me that there will be no meaningful solution there until some attempt is made to know them and hear their broken cries.

They must see Americans as strange liberators. The Vietnamese people proclaimed their own independence in 1945 after a combined French and Japanese occupation, and before the Communist revolution in China. They were led by Ho Chi Minh. Even though they quoted the American Declaration of Independence in their own document of freedom, we refused to recognize them. Instead, we decided to support France in its reconquest of her former colony.

Our government felt then that the Vietnamese people were not "ready" for independence, and we again fell victim to the deadly Western arrogance that has poisoned the international atmosphere for so long. With that tragic decision we rejected a revolutionary government seeking self-determination, and a government that had been established not by China (for whom the Vietnamese have no great love) but by clearly indigenous forces that included some Communists. For the peasants this new government meant real land reform, one of the most important needs in their lives.

For nine years following 1945 we denied the people of Vietnam the right of independence. For nine years we vigorously supported the French in their abortive effort to recolonize Vietnam.

Before the end of the war we were meeting eighty percent of the French war costs. Even before the French were defeated at Dien Bien Phu, they began to despair of the reckless action, but we did not. We encouraged them with our huge financial and military supplies to continue the war even after they had lost the will. Soon we would be paying almost the full costs of this tragic attempt at recolonization.

After the French were defeated it looked as if independence and land reform would come again through the Geneva agreements. But instead there came the United States, determined that Ho should not unify the temporarily divided nation, and the peasants watched again as we supported one of the most vicious modern dictators -- our chosen man, Premier Diem. The peasants watched and cringed as Diem ruthlessly routed out all opposition, supported their extortionist landlords and refused even to discuss reunification with the north. The peasants watched as all this was presided over by U.S. influence and then by increasing numbers of U.S. troops who came to help quell the insurgency that Diem's methods had aroused. When Diem was overthrown they may have been happy, but the long line of military dictatorships seemed to offer no real change -- especially in terms of their need for land and peace.

The only change came from America as we increased our troop commitments in support of governments which were singularly corrupt, inept and without popular support. All the while the people read our leaflets and received regular promises of peace and democracy -- and land reform. Now they languish under our bombs and consider us -- not their fellow Vietnamese --the real enemy. They move sadly and apathetically as we herd them off the land of their fathers into concentration camps where minimal social needs are rarely met. They know they must move or be destroyed by our bombs. So they go -- primarily women and children and the aged.

They watch as we poison their water, as we kill a million acres of their crops. They must weep as the bulldozers roar through their areas preparing to destroy the precious trees. They wander into the hospitals, with at least twenty casualties from American firepower for one "Vietcong"-inflicted injury. So far we may have killed a million of them -- mostly children. They wander into the towns and see thousands of the children, homeless, without clothes, running in packs on the streets like animals. They see the children, degraded by our soldiers as they beg for food. They see the children selling their sisters to our soldiers, soliciting for their mothers.

What do the peasants think as we ally ourselves with the landlords and as we refuse to put any action into our many words concerning land reform? What do they think as we test our latest weapons on them, just as the Germans tested out new medicine and new tortures in the concentration camps of Europe? Where are the roots of the independent Vietnam we claim to be building? Is it among these voiceless ones?

We have destroyed their two most cherished institutions: the family and the village. We have destroyed their land and their crops. We have cooperated in the crushing of the nation's only non-Communist revolutionary political force -- the unified Buddhist church. We have supported the enemies of the peasants of Saigon. We have corrupted their women and children and killed their men. What liberators?

Now there is little left to build on -- save bitterness. Soon the only solid physical foundations remaining will be found at our military bases and in the concrete of the concentration camps we call fortified hamlets. The peasants may well wonder if we plan to build our new Vietnam on such grounds as these? Could we blame them for such thoughts? We must speak for them and raise the questions they cannot raise. These too are our brothers.

Perhaps the more difficult but no less necessary task is to speak for those who have been designated as our enemies. What of the National Liberation Front -- that strangely anonymous group we call VC or Communists? What must they think of us in America when they realize that we permitted the repression and cruelty of Diem which helped to bring them into being as a resistance group in the south? What do they think of our condoning the violence which led to their own taking up of arms? How can they believe in our integrity when now we speak of "aggression from the north" as if there were nothing more essential to the war? How can they trust us when now we charge them with violence after the murderous reign of Diem and charge them with violence while we pour every new weapon of death into their land? Surely we must understand their feelings even if we do not condone their actions. Surely we must see that the men we supported pressed them to their violence. Surely we must see that our own computerized plans of destruction simply dwarf their greatest acts.

How do they judge us when our officials know that their membership is less than twenty-five percent Communist and yet insist on giving them the blanket name? What must they be thinking when they know that we are aware of their control of major sections of Vietnam and yet we appear ready to allow national elections in which this highly organized political parallel government will have no part? They ask how we can speak of free elections when the Saigon press is censored and controlled by the military junta. And they are surely right to wonder what kind of new government we plan to help form without them -- the only party in real touch with the peasants. They question our political goals and they deny the reality of a peace settlement from which they will be excluded. Their questions are frighteningly relevant. Is our nation planning to build on political myth again and then shore it up with the power of new violence?

Here is the true meaning and value of compassion and nonviolence when it helps us to see the enemy's point of view, to hear his questions, to know his assessment of ourselves. For from his view we may indeed see the basic weaknesses of our own condition, and if we are mature, we may learn and grow and profit from the wisdom of the brothers who are called the opposition.

So, too, with Hanoi. In the north, where our bombs now pummel the land, and our mines endanger the waterways, we are met by a deep but understandable mistrust. To speak for them is to explain this lack of confidence in Western words, and especially their distrust of American intentions now. In Hanoi are the men who led the nation to independence against the Japanese and the French, the men who sought membership in the French commonwealth and were betrayed by the weakness of Paris and the willfulness of the colonial armies. It was they who led a second struggle against French domination at tremendous costs, and then were persuaded to give up the land they controlled between the thirteenth and seventeenth parallel as a temporary measure at Geneva. After 1954 they watched us conspire with Diem to prevent elections which would have surely brought Ho Chi Minh to power over a united Vietnam, and they realized they had been betrayed again.

When we ask why they do not leap to negotiate, these things must be remembered. Also it must be clear that the leaders of Hanoi considered the presence of American troops in support of the Diem regime to have been the initial military breach of the Geneva agreements concerning foreign troops, and they remind us that they did not begin to send in any large number of supplies or men until American forces had moved into the tens of thousands.

Hanoi remembers how our leaders refused to tell us the truth about the earlier North Vietnamese overtures for peace, how the president claimed that none existed when they had clearly been made. Ho Chi Minh has watched as America has spoken of peace and built up its forces, and now he has surely heard of the increasing international rumors of American plans for an invasion of the north. He knows the bombing and shelling and mining we are doing are part of traditional pre-invasion strategy. Perhaps only his sense of humor and of irony can save him when he hears the most powerful nation of the world speaking of aggression as it drops thousands of bombs on a poor weak nation more than eight thousand miles away from its shores.

At this point I should make it clear that while I have tried in these last few minutes to give a voice to the voiceless on Vietnam and to understand the arguments of those who are called enemy, I am as deeply concerned about our troops there as anything else. For it occurs to me that what we are submitting them to in Vietnam is not simply the brutalizing process that goes on in any war where armies face each other and seek to destroy. We are adding cynicism to the process of death, for they must know after a short period there that none of the things we claim to be fighting for are really involved. Before long they must know that their government has sent them into a struggle among Vietnamese, and the more sophisticated surely realize that we are on the side of the wealthy and the secure while we create hell for the poor.

This Madness Must Cease
Somehow this madness must cease. We must stop now. I speak as a child of God and brother to the suffering poor of Vietnam. I speak for those whose land is being laid waste, whose homes are being destroyed, whose culture is being subverted. I speak for the poor of America who are paying the double price of smashed hopes at home and death and corruption in Vietnam. I speak as a citizen of the world, for the world as it stands aghast at the path we have taken. I speak as an American to the leaders of my own nation. The great initiative in this war is ours. The initiative to stop it must be ours.

This is the message of the great Buddhist leaders of Vietnam. Recently one of them wrote these words:

"Each day the war goes on the hatred increases in the heart of the Vietnamese and in the hearts of those of humanitarian instinct. The Americans are forcing even their friends into becoming their enemies. It is curious that the Americans, who calculate so carefully on the possibilities of military victory, do not realize that in the process they are incurring deep psychological and political defeat. The image of America will never again be the image of revolution, freedom and democracy, but the image of violence and militarism."

If we continue, there will be no doubt in my mind and in the mind of the world that we have no honorable intentions in Vietnam. It will become clear that our minimal expectation is to occupy it as an American colony and men will not refrain from thinking that our maximum hope is to goad China into a war so that we may bomb her nuclear installations. If we do not stop our war against the people of Vietnam immediately the world will be left with no other alternative than to see this as some horribly clumsy and deadly game we have decided to play.

The world now demands a maturity of America that we may not be able to achieve. It demands that we admit that we have been wrong from the beginning of our adventure in Vietnam, that we have been detrimental to the life of the Vietnamese people. The situation is one in which we must be ready to turn sharply from our present ways.

In order to atone for our sins and errors in Vietnam, we should take the initiative in bringing a halt to this tragic war. I would like to suggest five concrete things that our government should do immediately to begin the long and difficult process of extricating ourselves from this nightmarish conflict:


End all bombing in North and South Vietnam.
Declare a unilateral cease-fire in the hope that such action will create the atmosphere for negotiation.
Take immediate steps to prevent other battlegrounds in Southeast Asia by curtailing our military buildup in Thailand and our interference in Laos.
Realistically accept the fact that the National Liberation Front has substantial support in South Vietnam and must thereby play a role in any meaningful negotiations and in any future Vietnam government.
Set a date that we will remove all foreign troops from Vietnam in accordance with the 1954 Geneva agreement.

Part of our ongoing commitment might well express itself in an offer to grant asylum to any Vietnamese who fears for his life under a new regime which included the Liberation Front. Then we must make what reparations we can for the damage we have done. We most provide the medical aid that is badly needed, making it available in this country if necessary.

Protesting The War
Meanwhile we in the churches and synagogues have a continuing task while we urge our government to disengage itself from a disgraceful commitment. We must continue to raise our voices if our nation persists in its perverse ways in Vietnam. We must be prepared to match actions with words by seeking out every creative means of protest possible.

As we counsel young men concerning military service we must clarify for them our nation's role in Vietnam and challenge them with the alternative of conscientious objection. I am pleased to say that this is the path now being chosen by more than seventy students at my own alma mater, Morehouse College, and I recommend it to all who find the American course in Vietnam a dishonorable and unjust one. Moreover I would encourage all ministers of draft age to give up their ministerial exemptions and seek status as conscientious objectors. These are the times for real choices and not false ones. We are at the moment when our lives must be placed on the line if our nation is to survive its own folly. Every man of humane convictions must decide on the protest that best suits his convictions, but we must all protest.

There is something seductively tempting about stopping there and sending us all off on what in some circles has become a popular crusade against the war in Vietnam. I say we must enter the struggle, but I wish to go on now to say something even more disturbing. The war in Vietnam is but a symptom of a far deeper malady within the American spirit, and if we ignore this sobering reality we will find ourselves organizing clergy- and laymen-concerned committees for the next generation. They will be concerned about Guatemala and Peru. They will be concerned about Thailand and Cambodia. They will be concerned about Mozambique and South Africa. We will be marching for these and a dozen other names and attending rallies without end unless there is a significant and profound change in American life and policy. Such thoughts take us beyond Vietnam, but not beyond our calling as sons of the living God.

In 1957 a sensitive American official overseas said that it seemed to him that our nation was on the wrong side of a world revolution. During the past ten years we have seen emerge a pattern of suppression which now has justified the presence of U.S. military "advisors" in Venezuela. This need to maintain social stability for our investments accounts for the counter-revolutionary action of American forces in Guatemala. It tells why American helicopters are being used against guerrillas in Colombia and why American napalm and green beret forces have already been active against rebels in Peru. It is with such activity in mind that the words of the late John F. Kennedy come back to haunt us. Five years ago he said, "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."

Increasingly, by choice or by accident, this is the role our nation has taken -- the role of those who make peaceful revolution impossible by refusing to give up the privileges and the pleasures that come from the immense profits of overseas investment.

I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered.

A true revolution of values will soon cause us to question the fairness and justice of many of our past and present policies. n the one hand we are called to play the good Samaritan on life's roadside; but that will be only an initial act. One day we must come to see that the whole Jericho road must be transformed so that men and women will not be constantly beaten and robbed as they make their journey on life's highway. True compassion is more than flinging a coin to a beggar; it is not haphazard and superficial. It comes to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring. A true revolution of values will soon look uneasily on the glaring contrast of poverty and wealth. With righteous indignation, it will look across the seas and see individual capitalists of the West investing huge sums of money in Asia, Africa and South America, only to take the profits out with no concern for the social betterment of the countries, and say: "This is not just." It will look at our alliance with the landed gentry of Latin America and say: "This is not just." The Western arrogance of feeling that it has everything to teach others and nothing to learn from them is not just. A true revolution of values will lay hands on the world order and say of war: "This way of settling differences is not just." This business of burning human beings with napalm, of filling our nation's homes with orphans and widows, of injecting poisonous drugs of hate into veins of people normally humane, of sending men home from dark and bloody battlefields physically handicapped and psychologically deranged, cannot be reconciled with wisdom, justice and love. A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.

America, the richest and most powerful nation in the world, can well lead the way in this revolution of values. There is nothing, except a tragic death wish, to prevent us from reordering our priorities, so that the pursuit of peace will take precedence over the pursuit of war. There is nothing to keep us from molding a recalcitrant status quo with bruised hands until we have fashioned it into a brotherhood.

This kind of positive revolution of values is our best defense against communism. War is not the answer. Communism will never be defeated by the use of atomic bombs or nuclear weapons. Let us not join those who shout war and through their misguided passions urge the United States to relinquish its participation in the United Nations. These are days which demand wise restraint and calm reasonableness. We must not call everyone a Communist or an appeaser who advocates the seating of Red China in the United Nations and who recognizes that hate and hysteria are not the final answers to the problem of these turbulent days. We must not engage in a negative anti-communism, but rather in a positive thrust for democracy, realizing that our greatest defense against communism is to take offensive action in behalf of justice. We must with positive action seek to remove thosse conditions of poverty, insecurity and injustice which are the fertile soil in which the seed of communism grows and develops.

The People Are Important
These are revolutionary times. All over the globe men are revolting against old systems of exploitation and oppression and out of the wombs of a frail world new systems of justice and equality are being born. The shirtless and barefoot people of the land are rising up as never before. "The people who sat in darkness have seen a great light." We in the West must support these revolutions. It is a sad fact that, because of comfort, complacency, a morbid fear of communism, and our proneness to adjust to injustice, the Western nations that initiated so much of the revolutionary spirit of the modern world have now become the arch anti-revolutionaries. This has driven many to feel that only Marxism has the revolutionary spirit. Therefore, communism is a judgement against our failure to make democracy real and follow through on the revolutions we initiated. Our only hope today lies in our ability to recapture the revolutionary spirit and go out into a sometimes hostile world declaring eternal hostility to poverty, racism, and militarism. With this powerful commitment we shall boldly challenge the status quo and unjust mores and thereby speed the day when "every valley shall be exalted, and every moutain and hill shall be made low, and the crooked shall be made straight and the rough places plain."

A genuine revolution of values means in the final analysis that our loyalties must become ecumenical rather than sectional. Every nation must now develop an overriding loyalty to mankind as a whole in order to preserve the best in their individual societies.

This call for a world-wide fellowship that lifts neighborly concern beyond one's tribe, race, class and nation is in reality a call for an all-embracing and unconditional love for all men. This oft misunderstood and misinterpreted concept -- so readily dismissed by the Nietzsches of the world as a weak and cowardly force -- has now become an absolute necessity for the survival of man. When I speak of love I am not speaking of some sentimental and weak response. I am speaking of that force which all of the great religions have seen as the supreme unifying principle of life. Love is somehow the key that unlocks the door which leads to ultimate reality. This Hindu-Moslem-Christian-Jewish-Buddhist belief about ultimate reality is beautifully summed up in the first epistle of Saint John:

Let us love one another; for love is God and everyone that loveth is born of God and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. If we love one another God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Let us hope that this spirit will become the order of the day. We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. The oceans of history are made turbulent by the ever-rising tides of hate. History is cluttered with the wreckage of nations and individuals that pursued this self-defeating path of hate. As Arnold Toynbee says : "Love is the ultimate force that makes for the saving choice of life and good against the damning choice of death and evil. Therefore the first hope in our inventory must be the hope that love is going to have the last word."

We are now faced with the fact that tomorrow is today. We are confronted with the fierce urgency of now. In this unfolding conundrum of life and history there is such a thing as being too late. Procrastination is still the thief of time. Life often leaves us standing bare, naked and dejected with a lost opportunity. The "tide in the affairs of men" does not remain at the flood; it ebbs. We may cry out deperately for time to pause in her passage, but time is deaf to every plea and rushes on. Over the bleached bones and jumbled residue of numerous civilizations are written the pathetic words: "Too late." There is an invisible book of life that faithfully records our vigilance or our neglect. "The moving finger writes, and having writ moves on..." We still have a choice today; nonviolent coexistence or violent co-annihilation.

We must move past indecision to action. We must find new ways to speak for peace in Vietnam and justice throughout the developing world -- a world that borders on our doors. If we do not act we shall surely be dragged down the long dark and shameful corridors of time reserved for those who possess power without compassion, might without morality, and strength without sight.

Now let us begin. Now let us rededicate ourselves to the long and bitter -- but beautiful -- struggle for a new world. This is the callling of the sons of God, and our brothers wait eagerly for our response. Shall we say the odds are too great? Shall we tell them the struggle is too hard? Will our message be that the forces of American life militate against their arrival as full men, and we send our deepest regrets? Or will there be another message, of longing, of hope, of solidarity with their yearnings, of commitment to their cause, whatever the cost? The choice is ours, and though we might prefer it otherwise we must choose in this crucial moment of human history.

As that noble bard of yesterday, James Russell Lowell, eloquently stated:

Once to every man and nation
Comes the moment to decide,
In the strife of truth and falsehood,
For the good or evil side;
Some great cause, God's new Messiah,
Off'ring each the bloom or blight,
And the choice goes by forever
Twixt that darkness and that light.

Though the cause of evil prosper,
Yet 'tis truth alone is strong;
Though her portion be the scaffold,
And upon the throne be wrong:
Yet that scaffold sways the future,
And behind the dim unknown,
Standeth God within the shadow
Keeping watch above his own.


http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/058.html




Rich Man's War Lyrics


Jimmy joined the army ‘cause he had no place to go
There ain’t nobody hirin’
‘round here since all the jobs went
down to Mexico
Reckoned that he’d learn himself a trade maybe see the world
Move to the city someday and marry a black haired girl
Somebody somewhere had another plan
Now he’s got a rifle in his hand
Rollin’ into Baghdad wonderin’ how he got this far
Just another poor boy off to fight a rich man’s war

Bobby had an eagle and a flag tattooed on his arm
Red white and blue to the bone when he landed in Kandahar
Left behind a pretty young wife and a baby girl
A stack of overdue bills and went off to save the world
Been a year now and he’s still there
Chasin’ ghosts in the thin dry air
Meanwhile back at home the finance company took his car
Just another poor boy off to fight a rich man’s war

When will we ever learn
When will we ever see
We stand up and take our turn
And keep tellin’ ourselves we’re free

Ali was the second son of a second son
Grew up in Gaza throwing bottles and rocks when the tanks would come
Ain’t nothin’ else to do around here just a game children play
Somethin’ ‘bout livin’ in fear all your life makes you hard that way

He answered when he got the call
Wrapped himself in death and praised Allah
A fat man in a new Mercedes drove him to the door
Just another poor boy off to fight a rich man’s war

Steve Earle




I luv you Mr. Fish

Bookmarked!
:patriot:

:hi:

Guess what? Most of here ARE activists and aren't just "blabbing on DU."

We write letters, work in our local precicnts, organize, march, protest, and educate.


It is pretty naive to think we are only "blabbing on DU."

Often they begin as a good joke or inflammatory tag-line, which gets a posting read... hehehe

"Please use good judgment when starting threads; inflammatory rhetoric does not normally lead to productive discussion."

:hi:

What are ya trying to do, draw every off duty NSA mofo to the punchbowl?

Cool it!

:rofl:

:evilgrin:

I bet my file is a dozy just from what I've posted here, in the last few days... You know when they begin locking people up for expressing their opinions in print, a just individual should want to be the first to go but I'm just not that just. My minimal experience at this site reminds me of something I once read: "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." Mohandas Gandhi

I can hear the sound of "Dixie" coming through, I think.

Surely Johnny Reb wouldn't be so cowardly as to pawn himself off as a Cah-pet baggin' Yahnkee.

Speculation either way seems like steroid-induced hyperbole. :)

And what's wrong with blabbing? Even I have put up polls with the majority saying DU is merely an emotional catharsis.

But I've been reading here since the elections. I see a lot of work done here--you just have to get the habit of when it's posted about, and see who are the most active. Before you proclaim about how much work is getting done, or not, why don't you ASK someone here how much work they do? That might be more accurate than simply guessing. I sure wouldn't like my entire life speculated about based on some chatty crap I might've put up on a website...

One assumes one knows the answer to a question based on incomplete observations and information.

Edit: Welcome to DU by the way.

Just because they post here doesn't mean they aren't doing a multitude of other things. It's a both/and situation

And DU does have a certain level of organizing capabilities.

CNN is an arm of the Pentagon.

and Murdoch would would under write Fox even if every
last advertiser pulled out of the fascist shit network.

It's all about catapulting the propaganda.

Perhaps somewhere in your next 36 posts, you'll figure out that we do much more than talk here.

Half empty? Or STFU pessimist?! I prefer the latter. I may be a cynic, but I'm an optimistic cynic. I expect good things to happen, even though I know better.

I don't think all speech has to have a specific purpose. The interstices of life are the tidbits that don't seem to mean anything by themselves.

But I wouldn't have the confidence or knowledge to do it if I didn't read a lot here about the issue first.

I'm always amazed at how many people read the letters and notice when I write one. It lets people know where you stand, and you tend to find out where others stand by their response.

Response A: "Good letter."
Response B: "You should think about signing those letters anonomously."

Letters to the editor are useful and certainly better than reading posts somewhere or singing to the choir at DU... it's obvious that you grasp the importance of being a FORCE OF ONE... I chuckled at an earlier post on this board, which suggested attempting to organize DU is like "herding cats." I'm not attempting to organize anyone with this board. My main goal is to inform people, who just come here to read, that they too can be a force of one. When it comes to writing letters to media sponsors that have an impact, I didn't invent the concept. This is the way news has been molded to it's current state by those who hated that "liberal media" of the sixties.

We get inspired here and that's important in this cold, cruel world. We organize in an instant here and bombard media outlets or politicians' offices with our thoughts. We share laughs here when there's very little to laugh about. I love DU!

You've read 80,000 posters and followed all the different programs?


How do you know?

Pretty strange then that so many people read and blab on the internet, people of all political stripes, who are somehow under the impression that this is an important arena for clarifying thoughts, getting informed, and influencing the public dialogue.

Besides being a community for like-minded people, we know that DU is read by people of influence in the fields of politics and journalism. It's a way for interested parties to keep abreast of this particular segment of public opinion.

And DU isn't just part of a public dialogue, I believe it to be an influence on that dialogue. We've had some former lurkers post that as invisible readers of the site, their political opinions and beliefs were altered. Every time a silent visitor to this site is inspired to change their opinion, that's one more person out in the world who may write a letter to the editor, to their representative, or pass that influence along in conversation with a friend or relative.

Many of the posts here aren't intended solely to be read by other members of DU. It's also a way of "speaking" to the many political opponents we know visit regularly. We'll never know for sure, but I believe it's more than possible that even some of those hearts and minds have been changed by something that's been written here.

There are people that post here who know their stuff so well, who are so thorougly well-versed in history, politics, philosophy, I'm in awe at times. I've read arguments here that were irresistably worded and reasoned and utterly persuasive. There are visual artists who share their creativity. And just to balance things out, there is the occasional fart joke.

We are all putting little bits of our energy out there, little dabs of paint that combine to make a picture. If you keep hanging around long enough maybe your perceptions will change and you may no longer dismiss DU as useless "blabbing."

What do you know about blabbing on DU?

The media bucks you mention keep stories centric on "kapital" and the
issues of "kapital", not the issues of truth, discussion or social
consensus. I completely disagree. I see the DU discussion as the first
form of genuine media empowered to challenge orthodoxy and imperialism.

Whilst i agree that letters are useful in the physical world, this very
grassroots movement you discuss is exactly what we achieve by writing here.
Editors who must fill newspapers with column inches, bored at their editorial
desks trying to find work for junior persons looking for stories... "Read
DU and see what epople are talking about."

research shaping up. DU is normally way ahead of the curve.
At its very best, DU is a think tank for progressives and truth.
Have you explored the DU Activist Headquarters?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=106

:eyes: Let's have more self-elevating, holier-than-thou group smears, huh? They do such good. :puke:

As you found out, the people here HATE it when you ask them to be critically self-aware. Whether your premise is right or wrong, you committed the verboten sin of pointing out that some people overestimate their importance or the importance of their pontificating.

Good luck. Don't let anyone browbeat you for holding an unpopular view. Conformity kills.

... it's stunning to me how incredibly expert and insightful others can be regarding the lives of others based solely on posts to an Internet message board! Wow!

Asking people to be "critically self-aware". Yep. That's it.

:eyes:

I started to reply by quoting from the movie The Terminator, about how the dogs start barking because they KNOW.

Well, the dogs are barking.

:evilgrin:

peace

The DU has FAR MORE respect out in the greater political world than, say, Freeperland. It's generally realized that some political higher-ups moniter this board (for both good and bad reasons), while those on that other board are generally regarded as rambling loonies.

We've gotten things done with all our blabbing. We have every reason to take pride in what we say here.

I presumed an inflammatory headline would keep some solid media-altering advice in front of readers for an extended period and the assumption was right on the mark. Predictably, indignant responses kept this going for quite a while... I'd like to thank everyone for their opinions and ideas. I wonder how many read these posts in a state of desperation with feelings of helplessness haunting them. I can only speak for one reader here but, you know, we're all a force of one. Each posting shimmers with individual creative genius. To deny the creative genius of another is tantamount to denying the Genius behind all creation and essentially the Creator. This Creator gave each of us a gift, as did King George. The presidential present, given to We The People, is a chance to use those gifts to insure we leave a legacy of reasonable Democracy to our children. My hope is that all I write makes a reader take a hard look at themselves, as they realize that now is the time to turn up the heat and use individual gifts for the greater good. There is be no better time than now. We may not get a second chance on this one folks.

for LTTE writing, many DUers are quite active in this regard and often post emails and addresses of the media corps, elected officials etc. to facilitate this.

In addition, there is a lot of info passed on DU regarding how to best use our collective economic clout to influence the political process.

It's one thing to be new and have few posts. And it's another thing, because you're new, to not know these things. And it's another thing YET to be new, not know these things, but post a topic basically saying the board is worthless because DUers aren't using the board to do the things that they actually ARE using it for.

Tends to make people, um, question your motives of being here and posting.

Welcome to DU.

The OP reminded me of someone, who, coming upon a group of people protesting outside the WH, eg, and apparently for some reason, not noticing that they are protesting outside the WH, telling them 'you know it would be a great idea for you guys to protest the WH'!

All those letters I wrote to CNN and MSNBC and their advertisers probably meant nothing until someone came along to tell me that's what I ought to be doing! Silly me!

Btw, question for the OP, were you a part of the many boycotts led by DUers over the past few years? If not, too bad. We could have used you. Every letter helps you know! But, better late than never. Welcome aboard! :-)

the original poster in the New York Times and other papers, as well as their posts telling how we can help with the boycotts against Bush supporting businesses in his/her city.

Say you belong to a group, specifically an American Indian tribe, that only comprises 1% of a city population. And say that your tribe is the target of the editorial boards and negative articles?

I don't see how any advertiser would take aboycott serious since they know you don't have the numbers to actually pull off a successful boycot. To me, its an empty threat.

It seems that the only alternative is to hit the paper with complaints from people who are at least willing to write a letter.

I don't know though. That's just my initial reaction to your suggestion.

I just can't figure out why I would limit myself to some pretended scenario like the Native American example you put forth submerged. I'll tell you this my friends, you have free choice and dignity to fashion yourselves into whatever form you choose. To you is granted the power to degrade your gifts and set limitations on yourselves and to you is granted a power contained in your judgment and intellect to improve your efforts daily and use your particular gifts to their best advantage. We should not make that freedom of choice the Creator gave us into something harmful, for it is intended to be to our advantage. You write whoever you like submerged but why not try writing both sponsors and Media? FYI I don't endorse "threats" of any kind. Simply tell sponsors what you intend to do about lop-sided news and then fulfill your commitment.

have overlooked 'sponsors'?

The stilted language, strung together cliches, nonsensical prose . . . remind you of anything?

When they read the title of the thread? :)

This one's a bit more entertaining, and a bit more articulate, but still I must call it......

Your little "long haired ugly doll" is cute!

He says don't post, just write letters. But, in order to get lots of people to send letters(the only way to scare a company) you need a tool like DU to communicate. The whole premise of a letter threatening a boycott is bulshit anyways, unless it came from a powerful institution such as the NAACP for instance.

P.S. I wrote a letter to Yahoo last week about a buzz article(about popular searches) which seemed to be pro-Bush spin. In it I threatened a boycott. I got no response whatsoever, and they did not remove the piece. For all I know they didn't even read it.

http://buzz.yahoo.com/buzz_log/entry/2005/12/22/1100/?fr=fp-buzz-title

brought up and in some cases stopped the use of Native symbols in the Sports industries. LTTE's are great for voicing your opinion, but letters to the money grubbing corporations can make a difference as well.

Although I don't like the antagonistic tone of the OP, the point did get through. Many heroes in our liberal history have successfully used the same approach to achieve change. I have to give the message the OP posted that much credit.

:kick:

Hours of DU organized letter writing and phone calls to senators, congressmen, governors, representatives, media members; attending DU organized protests and vigils and rallies...I now you tell me that I have just wasted my time.

What was I thinking?

and elbowing between the 'rock stars', the cliques, 'the hip kids', and the groovey things 'the hip kids do' here @ du just to get your piece, your 2cts out in the open; and if that is the case, the OP's gist; then i am trending toward agreement

Then he's very clever and can definitely teach us all a few things.

:hi:

Does ANY of my postings lead anyone to feel they're waisting time by writing letters or other actions above and beyond posting? In fact, simply posting here, isn't a waste of time but we can always do more or less. That's the real question: Is this the time to do more or less? Will we continue to only maintain the status quo? I say to you that anyone who would criticize civic activism at this time is a shill for the machine. Nap time is over, America. Your freedom was pilfered while you tossed and turned in an induced nightare called "Yellow Alert." Now it's Bedtime for Bonzo the Chimp in a small steel cage. The only ones who can send him there are rich, powerful and living in DC. Let's do all we can to furnish economic incentives to help with their decision.

between one voter and another potential voter? If you agree, then might I submit that the conversations here are mostly substantive and constructive, as well as informative. As one who will be talking to many potential voters in the coming year about 2006, I must have as many facts as I can to inform people about what the truth really is. To pull voters to our side will take telling the truth with facts. DU is where I come to discuss current events and become an informed so that I can make a difference in the upcoming elections.

This isn't just "blabbing".

Please try to see the bigger picture. And, BTW, you are lecturing what is probably one of the most active internet communities there is.

Please don't take offense to my disagreement.

I want to congratulate you cry baby and we can all take a lesson from your actions! You are a perfect example of the human wonder of a person using their Divine gift and rising to the occasion. We are all different and our gifts vary. If we wait to use them will give up inalienable rights endowed by the Creator? I believe that Creator endows ALL of us with not only choice but also an innate sense of knowing right from wrong. Many early supporters of King George are feeling twinges at a deep spiritual level. Now is the time to do whatever you do best!

at the abandonment of our poor and elderly. As Christians, they profess to follow Christ, but they are on the wrong path. The thing I just don't understand about evangelicals is that they really do know better, they know this is wrong - yet they continue to self-delude.

I agree with your post, we all have different strengths and weaknesses. If we can each call on our strengths, maybe we can triumph.

I am weak in many areas, not always too smart, not always ready to engage in a political discussion. But this place helps me become educated and more confident. I hope to pass that education on to anyone who will listen.

BTW, thank you for the compliment. We all do what we can.

is too often 'self-righteous apathy' of late, there's always plenty of time to wonder 'how did the fascists get in there & how do they tap our phone lines' :shrug: hubby is from the 60's and has mentioned "were this bush stuff to have occurred then the nation would have burst into flames"...

this 'american life' we lead could not be as yet brought down by even the likes of osama bin laden, as he once dreamed and prayer to allah for. like a juggernaut, it just keeps chugging along. we must, on balance, be seen as happy; defined as happy. were we to be more truly unhappy...wouldn't we be doing something about it?

it is my most sincere hope that all we say will not be seen as blather; that all we say will be seen as actionable. and not effete, or pointless

if you go after BushInc in any meaningful way. And some companies that BUY ads will drop their ad buying if you print stories UNfavorable to their fascist agenda.

See past month of KnightRidder threads here at DU.

It creates a sense of community where people might otherwise feel isolated in their views. It gives people encouragement and hope. From a pure nuts and bolts point of view, you're correct, but people need to stay motivated, and that can be hard for some of us who inhabit red areas (whether that be Alabama or, in my case, the U.S. Air Force).

But thanks for your input, and welcome to Democratic Underground. :hi:

LTE's, provides forum for discussion, and the list go's on and on. Also, bloggers helped out Republican plant Jeff Gannon. Don't think that DU and other internet institutions like it don't make a difference; in fact you'll find that references to the blogs are popping up in the MSM a lot lately.

I have one (1) Original Post.

I read alot before I even replied to an OP. We live in a world of ideas, and this forum is in ferment every moment. A broad spectrum of abiilities and knowledge and wisdom is available to one who understands that there are, indeed, people with far more experience, knowledge, and understanding than oneself.

Ten things I learned from 1 O. P.:

Bite Your Tongue!

Do not presume too much.

Make a Point.

Don't take the bait.

Spell correctly.

Sarcasm is usually misunderstood, and

Irony has no chance whatsoever.

DU is an extremely effective learning tool.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Don't say "fat".

Paix,

LFR

paramount..and, yes, DU's a tough school.

actually england sort of lost war world 2 even tho germany didn't win, they were bankrupt, it was cheaper for them to give up their old colonies, philip larkin even had one of his famous poems abt it, homage to a government

w. or w.out gandhi, this happened, not every colony had a gandhi

we do write letters, we do protest, we do all this and all that, but there is no substitute for inventing the steam engine when it's steam engine time

hmmm--maybe i should not quote this poem here, it's a difficult poem, a rather zen koan for our times, i suppose

Next year we are to bring all the soldiers home
For lack of money, and it is all right.
Places they guarded, or kept orderly,
We want the money for ourselves at home
Instead of working. And this is all right.

It's hard to say who wanted it to happen,
But now it's been decided nobody minds.
The places are a long way off, not here,
Which is all right, and from what we hear
The soldiers there only made trouble happen.
Next year we shall be easier in our minds.

Next year we shall be living in a country
That brought its soldiers home for lack of money.
The statues will be standing in the same
Tree-muffled squares, and look nearly the same.
Our children will not know it's a different country.
All we can hope to leave them now is money.

you think we sit here at our keyboards and don't share what we learn here with others? is it just possible that education of the citizenry is a core component of an effective political movement?

many letters have been written to the mass media because of and by online activists ... and many of us are much, much more than just online activists ... my active participation here has influenced me to join my local Democratic committee ... i'm far more active politically than i've been in many years because of the energy and enthusiasm i derive from DU and other online sites ...

DU is a place for teaching and learning ... to put it down with your wholesale dismissal fails to understand the culture, the energy, the accomplishments and the goals ... information is the lifeforce of democracies; you would be wise not to try to suck the lifeforce from the many causes and efforts that begin here or are supported here ... to be sure, campaign work and other hands on activism are important; one need not show such disrespect for DU to make that point ...

You inveigh against "blabbing" on DU, but what do you know? I would suggest you think it's blabbing because you don't understand most of it.

Seriously. What do you know about impacting the body politic? What do you know about influencing the political dialogue on a national level? It's not selling Toyotas to college students with radio ads that say SUNDAY! SUNDAY! SUNDAY!

Your alleged knowledge strongly suggests you are familiar with the (largely rightwing) tactic of launching letter campaigns. That's hardly the purpose of DU or the discussions here. Those largely ineffective measures only shape what a particular media company will carry or advertise. The problem with Clear Channel is much deeper than you describe. They're about as corrupt and disreputable as a media company can be. They're in bed with the Bushes, literally palace whores.

Offering your ideas is fine, but when you walk in the door with condemnation based upon lack of understanding, don't expect a lot of support.

Even as we type she makes the sounds of leaving... Turn her on... she's likely in the den. She will sound better daily if you pay her but her owners damn sure don't want ANYONE writing sponsors. They know what we all know: Profit Drives the machine along a precarious economic track that is easy to disrupt. As profits fall, so will the machine. Propaganda about some Clear Channel monster is only meant to undermine our desire to "write letters," especially to sponsors. Calling letter writing "Right Wing" suggests that you oppose this type of action and consider it a tool of the enemy, not worthy of use. Aside from shooting down attempts to rally civic activism, what actions are you taking to leave a legacy of Democracy to your children, Neil Lisst?

I don't suffer fools well.

Perhaps you missed my question, you seem to have a habit of missing stuff. So, again, I'll ask, 'what made you think your idea of writing to sponsors might be a novel idea to DU? Had you simply asked 'hey, have you guys ever thought of writing to sponsors rather than networks?' you might not have wasted all this time. We could have enlightened you with some very impressive information on successful campaigns to do just that, many of them started here on DU.

But don't let me burst your bubble. It's a great idea, it's just that we've done it, will do it again, and some are in the process of doing it. So, forgive us for not jumping up and down and pretending this is a new idea here.

Btw, since you presumed to give this board advice without doing any research, I will be as presumptuous and return the favor. If you were sincere in your opening post (I think you said a post should start a grass roots movement effort, rather than just babble) here's some advice! If you want to start a movement, you must win people over to your cause. That usually happens when the would-be leader of this movement first informs him/herself about the group whose support he needs.

Why don't you do that and then get back to us. We're always open to NEW ideas. Please don't take this badly but your idea and advice are far from new here. Good luck in your endeavors. May you be as successful as DUers have been in theirs. :-)

posted the story on how much of News Corporation the Saudis owned. FOX News was playing. It was always on. I asked the owner why they were watching FOX, why not Aljazeera?

They asked me what I meant, and I told them about the Saudi connection to Rupert. Saudrailan News, I called it.

I did not return until last week. The TeeVee was off. I was told it was a distraction.

Being a blue in a red, red, my letters are never published, but I make my points in other ways.

(I am the resident pinko-hippie commie.)

I certainly don't want to usurp your authority as the "resident pinko, hippy commie here at DU. (I was rolling in the floor with that one)

I did not come to DU to quench fires but instead start them! Each of us has a spark of Divinity. How and when we use that innate spark is an individual decission. We are all a power of one. Now we must ask ourselve; is now the time to become more active? or should I wait until tyranny and oppression dull my small light?

you have 45 posts. Let me let you in on a little secret. When a Democratic congressperson gets on TV and thanks all the "people who wrote to us giving their input", you can bet your ass a huge pile of those letters came from DU... And excuse me for mentioning this but for a person who claims to be in the media you make an awful lot of spelling and grammatical errors. Just sayin....

But here in NWFL, I am the resident pinko, hippy commie. The people here are not fascist in the Nazi sense, more like the Mussolini set. They still feel that if they had had 15 more years in VietNam and another 58,000 American deaths, we'd have won.

They hate the Eh-rabs. They hate just about everything from unions to illegals. Most are present duty and retired military (34% of our economy is derived from the military.) Every week we get another letter in the newspaper, "It's great to have God back in the White House."

I almost had a knock-down, drag-out with on military retiree about his attitude toward the poor in NOLA.

He was whining about his taxes and how he never asked for help, and why should he? He gets three government retirement checks, military, civil service, and social security. He is Tri-Care for life, never has to pay more than $9.00 a perscription, no deductible, no co-pay. He has commissary and BX privileges. He is the product of a socialist system, the most comprehensive welfare-socialist system in the US.

He took a 25 year pension from the military at 45, a civil servant pension at 60 and social security at 65. No medical insurance bills.

On the other hand, I have been working since I was 13. I have a simple-IRA and what I have saved to retire on at 66, maybe. I pay $700 for my medical insurance a month. I have co-pays out of sight. And I support his lavish socialist lifestyle.

Gee, he has not spoken to me since. Gasoline, I buy it by the barrel. :evilgrin:

Even though Kerry couldn't win on his national plan, any concise health-care plan is a winner in my book.

Are you discussing politics or evangelizing?
The Professor

I am willing to defend my right to use a capital "D" to spell Divinity, with the same zeal that I will defend your right to secularism or ANY other belief. I'm not into evangelism but I'm not above a bit of preaching on Constitutional Rights. :-)

Good because it unites like-minded people from all over the country, all over the world, to a single site to discuss the current political situation of our country. It's good because we share news articles and opinions and for the most part, unity.

But it's bad because it can make us too lacksadaisical. It becomes an outlet for our outrage, so we become dependent on that easy release rather than take it to the streets like we should be doing. It makes us passive.

I would how the sixties would have gone down had the internet been around back then.

Minutes. The babbling got directed outwards and it worked.

But then I learned what DU is all about. Many people on DU are active in their communites. DU provides them with a way to share opinions and ideas with like-minded people across the country.

P.S. I bet your so proud that this thread has a flame on it, and you started it. Note all your responses.

Which is what the poster has admitted to doing.

The OP's purported message is simple:

Instead of posting at DU, go send letters to sponsors and media outlets about your concerns.

Let's assume, arguendo, good motives on the part of the OP. Even so, a direct plea instead of flamebait is appropriate.

The whole pitch about divine powers sounds fundamentally irrational and suggestive of one who might not be as he or she presents.

Raydawg: First of all, I have no idea what earning a "flame" means and second, "pride" can be a sickness of sorts. I feel no pride, but instead, desire. The same desire I see in other posts at this site: a desire to do more tomorrow to preserve our way of life. Like many of you, I'm learning plenty at DU. If you read posts on this board you'll discover who the shills for the machine are, here at DU, as they continually seem to "suffer" fools, while trying to stop all discussion of civic activism by simply attacking the originator of the board. People here are smart and will see through this silliness. They will also begin to ask themselves if they can do any more toward leaving a legacy of freedom to their children, before it's too late. For those who post to correct my humble spelling or grammar, Mark Twain said, "I'm not much of a writer but I'm the world's best re-writer." I apologize for the lack of re-writing.

I've personally benefited, and I don't really care what you think about it.

And you want us to attack them like the AFA attacked Ford? That backfired, didn't it?

As I state earlier on this board, I want everyone to confront companies that advertise in King George friendly media with the ever-increasing persistence Gandhi followers used to gain freedom from England. We need more work in ultra red states like Alabama. If you live in a red state and no one you know will send letters or speak out against the evil chimp with you, simply become a force of one. I know, it takes a little courage and you'll get some flack but causing the machine to spend more on elections in secure states like Alabama, leaves them less resources to win marginal states. Do you feel alone in your red state? Are you religious and afraid to write letters that your minister might not endorse?

Fear and resignation are the strongest chains of your inner devil. Gandhi broke the chains of tyranny that bound India, with words like these: “When there is fear, there is no religion. Fear is not a disease of the body; fear kills the soul.” It is now time to stop blaming ignorance, fear or those around you for complacency. Leaving a legacy of freedom requires doing more each day than we did the day before. Indeed, it is far easier to blame the thieves of democracy than it is to take action to correct problems in America but if you allow others to exploit or restrain you, they will. No one holds power over you unless you relinquish that power, no matter where you live.

I get so sick of being preached to by people who think they know what I do or don't do. I've had several letters to the editor published. I've marched on the Mall several times. What do you know of my courage?

You deign to school me on Gandhi because of my signature line? Did you ever consider the possibility that people here don't need to be educated by the likes of you? That we might be a little more knowledgable?

Stick around, and you'll see that people here are doing a lot more than just blabbing. Maybe you should read more, and once you get a better idea of what is going on here, you'll condescend less, and contribute more helpfully.

And if you look at my avatar, it's clear that I live in Washington, DC. Here, we voted 90% to 9% for Kerry. Not a red state.

Needless to say, go back to the drawing board, because you clearly have mischaracterized me.

You may find with a little work that you have mischaracterized the rest of DU as well.

I'm only writing to activists in blue states to remind each of you that you can always do more. I have enjoyed reading posts like yours tasteblind, even if they attack me personally. Dedication and civic consciousness are beautiful things. Hearing about individual activism inspires me and I hope it motivates lurkers who read these posts from red states .

I just think it's important to remember when you make statements like this to consider that the vast majority of the people at DU are grassroots activists. We are in the trenches of the current political struggle, doing the best we can.

I appreciate your point of view, and I hope that you will continue to post at DU and help us to continue to grow and improve as a community.

I question the strategy of pressuring advertisers, but it is as valid as the many other strategies being employed. Any pressure for progressive change is positive, in my book.

say, do you? We got your message. Several posters have told you your idea is great, but in no way new to DU. Yet, you continue to repeat your 'advice'! If I were a rude individual I would say that you almost seem to be babbling uselessly at this point. But that would be a wasted comment so I won't!

I asked you a question before but you did not answer it. Perhaps you missed it, so, I'll ask it again: 'what made you think your idea of writing to sponsors might be a novel idea to DU? Had you simply asked 'hey, have you guys ever thought of writing to sponsors rather than networks?' you might not have wasted all this time. We could have enlightened you with some very impressive information on successful campaigns to do just that, many of them started here on DU.

It's a great idea, it's just that we've done it, will do it again, and some are in the process of doing it. So, forgive us for not jumping up and down and pretending this is a new idea here.

Btw, since you presumed to give this board advice without doing any research, I will be as presumptuous and return the favor. If you were sincere in your opening post (I think you said a post should start a grass roots movement effort, rather than just babble) here's some advice! If you want to start a movement, you must win people over to your cause. That usually happens when the would-be leader of this movement first informs him/herself about the group whose support he needs.

Why don't you do that and then get back to us? We're always open to NEW ideas. Please don't take this badly but your idea and advice are far from new here. Good luck in your endeavors. May you be as successful as DUers have been in theirs. :-)

Katrina, I never thought for one second that my archaic notions of personal action would be seen as new at this site. In fact, boycott and other forms of activism are as old as tyranny. At DU, I only want to serve as a constant reminder that there is still plenty of work to be done, if we intend to claim back our legacy of freedom in America.

1. Write consistently to your Congressional reps.
2. Write to your family and friends....who you can probably best reach in terms of true message and explanation why we need to be proud, responsible Americans again....and get away from this Repuke rip off. I've succeeded just within the family of rallying 50 or more to the cause. That's your best real "grass roots" place to start.
3. Write to Air America, other forums, or other places you feel can echo your opinions....or at least contribute to a worthy consensus.

I appreciate your input and wonderful advice, wadestock. Do you also write letters to the companies that sponsor news in your area? I believe when a local sponsor tries a medium for the first time, they are testing the water and seeking any and all feedback. There is no reason to come across as a hard-core democrat activist in our letters or postings. An important influence on western government from the 19th Century, named Benjamin Disraeli said, “The choicest pleasures of life lie within the ring of moderation.” Instead of spitting venom about our rights and being branded as liberals or worse, let's all consider a more moderate approach in writings to those we intend to influence.

A famous elephant hunter developed some trouble with his craft and had to retire. He moved to AL because that's where the 'Tuscalosa.'

boom boom!

:rofl:

of serious argument and debate in small email subgroups that began at work and then turned into spinoffs on the outside. Some are combinations of work and outside of work.

In these type of forums, people tend to be much more forthcoming and the threads are extremely persistent. Some of the arguments go on for weeks at a time, developing and flushing out particular theories on both sides.

Within this type of environment, I can hopefully say I've influenced dozens to come over to the cause.

Some of these developed through "junk mail" I got from my wife sending me stuff from her friends. As you can imagine a lot of this is anti-democratic by design. I never let any of these go and write back to hopefully the originator. But in the process I do intercept a lot of people that have been on the distribution. This is good because it tends to confront the repuke campaign at the source of their lies.

is into french enlightenment thinkers, deism, and slave owning too?

Offering personal views on French enlightenment in lower case is tricky, as well, but I suspect you mean Voltaire. While I might not share all of his views on religion, like Voltaire, I find several problems with religious fundamentalists of any kind. I also whole-heartedly endorse his views on tolerance of other beliefs. I believe our Creator is benevolent enough to appear quite differently to other cultures and I mean ALL of them! I only speak for Jefferson, in jest and utterly refuse to speak for God or judge others for their beliefs. God-given rights, according to Jefferson, include life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Jefferson never seems to suggest that religious fundamentalists have a right to ram-rod personal beliefs into the public system. I also wonder what would happen if Jesus physically visited some evangelical zealot screaming for war from the pulpit.

I think I know a little how you are feeling - the first week I signed up and started posting (I'd been lurking for a while first too) I felt I'd come to the wrong site and decided to leave. I came back after a little while and to this day I still sometimes think I should leave. But I've learned to ignore the unproductive bitch sessions for the most part - you'll recognize them by the their titles usually (and sometimes just by the person posting!).

You are right about the media. Money talks. Period.

And, you are right about many people here on DU. They only want to sit around and bitch. There are some however who actually DO things, who ACT. You just have to wade through the first to get to the latter. It's frustrating at times, but usually it's worth it. DU can also be a great place for exchanging info and learning new things. The advice about going to different forums is good - the ones that are geared more toward activism than bitching.

Good luck on DU - hope you stick it out!

Your encouragement gives me an opportunity to thank everyone that posted on this thread. I especially want to thank those of you who took the time to describe active contributions. Those posts will inspire and spur on the imaginations of others. It does, however, sadden me to realize that people who already make these efforts must do more every day, while others sit in complacency or, even worse, hide in fear.

I fully expect to be on the receiving end of some illegal spying for some of the stuff I've posted on these pages in the last month or so. See, something good did come out of all this:woohoo:

so they know which news items to give negative spin to the most.
Same with Kerry-Kennedy staffers, they need to know the general response from the joe & mary Q's out there -- ya fool someone onetime -- after that the speaker falls thru the floor with no credibility.-->next!!

If all you do is blab on DU (or whatever forum..) then I agree with Jefferson's Ghost...blab on DU but then:

1) Register and vote. Get others who think like you do to also register and vote.
2) Join your local Democratic Party. Instead of complaining about the Democratic Party, join the party and work hard to change it from the inside.
3) Participate actively in your Democratic Party. Make your local Democratic Party more than just a social club. Work for campaigns, volunteer for canvassing and phone banking. If you have special skills, say computer skills, put them to use for the party.
4) Donate money to the Democratic Party, Democratic candidates and liberal causes.
5) Put bumper stickers on your car. There are lots of other people who think just like you but are afraid to say so and feel intimidated by all the Wing nuts out there because they don't see anyone from our team when they are driving down the road.
6) Call in to the media and write them as often as possible. Make sure they understand that the world isn't Republican. Even the fairly Republican Orlando Sentinel posts a good number of liberal letters in the op-ed /lte section.
7) Wear a button in public. (Same reason as 5) This is not only a good way to show the flag but also to network for the party. People come up to you and will talk to you and ask you questions like "how can I help" or "where can I register to vote".
8) Wear campaign t-shirts in public. Wear them at the health club or on the beach or whereever for the same reason as 7.
9) Don't be afraid to speak out whenever you can on behalf of what you know to be right. So many of these wing nuts and wing nut politicians think they can win by intimidating you. Don't let them. They don't have the facts on their side, they don't have logic, and they don't have morality.
10) Run for office. If you can do it, run for office. Don't ever let a Republican run unopposed. Even if you lose it's good practice, it makes the Republican sweat and not take his job for granted and it makes them spend money and effort defending races they didn't think they would need to defend.

Doug De Clue
Orlando, FL

Imagine, such a humble board, now graced by the likes of Doug De Clue and all of you who furnished links, ideas and even criticism. I especially like "They don't have the facts on their side, they don't have logic, and they don't have morality." If I were devoid of these basic psychological main-stays, I might finally be ready to listen to the opposition. Even the most hard-line Republican believes in traditional American values like freedom. In fact, thanks to King George, freedom can finally become common ground that we can breach to win the minds and votes of our fellow Americans. Now we must ask ourselves if we have the courage to do everything in our power to traverse this mental divide.

One place to share info was the city of my birth, Philadelphia, in 1774. Even then, conservatives supporting King George were willing to advocate tyranny to maintain the status quo. The conservative Galloway Plan, while proposing to bring basic parliamentary procedure into the American way of life, still endorsed subscribing to British rule. Some men had other ideas. Benjamin Franklin was hard at work to bring about positive change. Certainly, with the pressures of earning a living, he often multi-tasked. Yes, multi-tasking is a necessity but did Franklin leave his values on the back burner for an extended period? I wonder how often he saw his ambition to bring character and basic freedom into our way of life as singular in importance.

You see, Franklin was pushing for this First Continental Congress long before it convened in '74. It took an event that went right past civic activism into what is now defined as terrorism to bring about his egalitarian notions. Boston Harbor became the site of a clandestine, tea-party in honor of King George and his taxes that served only the wealthy British aristocracy. I bet those early American Patriots weren't multi-tasking the night they dressed in Mohawk regalia before destroying English goods on the ships anchored in those chilly New England waters. In an event that seems to invite harsh measures, including the closure of their primary source of income, Boston Harbor, these terrorists left America with fewer reasons to multi-task in business. History repeats itself and I suspect that the current administration is hard at work right now to give modern America fewer economic reasons to multi-task. It looks to me like we're moving fast toward a two-class system, where only the ultra-rich have those basic human liberties endowed to us by our Creator.

While I will never condemn an individual for multi-tasking, as long as one of those tasks is preserving God-given rights and our noble legacy of freedom, I will consistently ask each of you to do more. Haunting this message board will certainly not make me popular at DU. I believe at least one modern American Patriot named Feingold is learning that standing up for traditional American values can be very unpopular. I'll simply pass along his wisdom by saying, "I DON'T CARE!" It appears while my haunting this site displease those of you, who know in your heart that your not doing enough, some actually see the need for my not-so-subtle reminders.

Some days I feel like the ghost of Paul Revere, but let's face it, you already know the tyrant is at your door ready to spirit you away without Due Process of Law. Will you sit by and do nothing, as King George takes away more than just Civil Liberties? Each day we must ask ourselves if we have done enough to give our children the same chances for a good education, proper medical care and basic human rights that we enjoyed as kids. As you ponder whether or not you're personally doing enough, keep in mind that many of our forefathers paid the ultimate price for the freedoms you've enjoyed. I will not ask you to stand up for freedom like Patrick Henry and scream, "GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH. I will, however, ask each of you to realize that by signing the Declaration of Independence our fore-fathers made it clear they were willing to give up everything to leave you a legacy of justice for all. Today, I'd like to see posts by other modern patriots, describing not only what they have done but also what they are doing to preserve our way of life. As with everything the choice is yours... You decide if your actions can serve as inspiration to others... You decide if it is time to incite more action. Most importantly, we must each decide if it is time to make the legacy we leave our children a primary task, as we multi-task in our modern world.

If you read back, you will find the message I more recently posted appears before a claim that I am "wrong." In all fairness, I want to let all subsequent readers know that Lonestarnot was most likely responding to my initial entry and not my most recent post, which he or she did not have an opportunity to read before posting their comment. As you see in my more recent posting, I totally agree with lonestarnot on the importance of an exchange of ideas.