I'm calling for political CIVIL WAR in the Democratic Party...

I say we get the 25 with guts together in a room with DNC chair Howard Dean, and all the base who can come, and we, before taking back our country, take back our damned party. If we keep electing Dems just to get a majority, and they keep voting like this, what's the damned point? Either they're with us or they're against us. Period.

THIS IS NOT SOME PHUCKING POLITICAL GAME WE'RE PLAYING HERE...FREEDOM IS ON THE LINE...IT'S WORTH FIGHTING FOR.

REVOLT! REVOLUTION! POLITICAL CIVIL WAR!

took us for granted. They don't get our votes just because they have a damned (D) beside their name. It doesn't mean anything anymore. You're right...IT'S TIME!!!

None of us wants to hurt the party. We need to strengthen it. In order to do so, the DINOs have to go. But we don't want to hurt the party with costly primary challenges that hurt the eventual nominee. So, what can we do?

I say we should send our DINOs over to the Republican party. Let the R's spend their money trying to keep our DINOs in place while we run real Democrats against them.

More on this idea here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x277934

-Laelth

good for you!!! Gosh, I'm not even to that point yet. I'm still at the "jumping party/jumping ship" stage tonight.

For me, it's either FIGHT to get our party back and have a real opposition party, or never vote again.

... if I'm willing to fight for the party again. I'm completely drained tonight.

For tonight, you probably have enough energy for the both of us. ;)

I agree that this is no longer "our" party. The time has come to clean house. This is going to take a MASSIVE effort. Nothing is going to change in this country until this party changes. Even if we win the majority in the house and senate, what did we win? Its like working overly hard to block your opponent in tic-tac-toe. The best we can hope for is stagnation with the people we have in office now. The argument is made that we can impeach when we get the majority.Yes we can. Will we?
Will the Democratic party suddenly grow a pair and begin impeachment proceedings just because they have the majority?
After tonight I have serious doubts

you all vote up this thread, please. PCV. Political Civil War. I'm putting on the DEMOCRATIC BLUE UNIFORM.

"growing a pair".)

can't be passed and enforced for awhile. May as well do something useful.

up legislation in the mean time CODIFYING Roe v. Wade, and privacy rights, so that it doesn't matter any more who sits on the supreme court. It's time to fight for PRINCIPLE instead of party.

I wonder if it will hold against the idea of unitary executive.

good question..."We can't allow abortion, for national security reasons." I can hear it now. PUKE.

and until the power struggle between the leadership of the DNC (representing the base) and the DLC (representing their sorry ass bank accounts) ends, we will not win.

Yes, I'm furious for getting kicked in the gut again today, but I'll eventually get out my checkbook and give money to Governor Dean because I know when he finally wrestles control away from the Al Froms and James Carvilles and other apologists who swear they know what the "people" want, we'll all be a lot better off and he's going to need some cash.

True progressives only.

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but, I don't want a damned dime going to any Republican-lite. It's time Howard raised the stakes in this poker game. He is in charge of the party now...the DNC writes the checks...time to use the power he has and reign in the renegades. I'm talking more than the "behind the scenes" crap, too. Out in the open. Make it happen.

1) I will donate to the DNC; not a penny to DLC
2) I will support the true base; not a penny or petition for Dems including my own Senator Cantwell (sob,sob) who let me down so dramatically today.

I would rather lose in honor, trying to be faithful to our principles, than to plant an X next to every (D).

I will not be a whore for the DLC or to Senators who think their own re-elections are more important than our party or our country.

b_b

is a Democrat, Zig-Zag Zell wannabe named Jim Marshall...Not voting for him again....and, I'm telling him why...and, I pray that we can find someone with the time, energy and opportunity to run against him in the primary and kick his ass.

NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO BE SILENT....LET THEM KNOW THEIR POLITICAL LIVES ARE ON THE LINE...we're coming after them.

close to Macon.

Democrats behind a move to get rid of the DINOs.

All those DINOs who refused to stand for something proved they would fall for anything - and they voted for cloture on the Alito debate.

2 more votes to get this on the greatest page...not for me...for the cause....Let's not let them take us for granted any more.

where does he stand on this exactly?

he works for US...not the other way around. This civil war only takes place if WE demand it....we tell him, you can be the general, or not. Your choice...WE ARE TAKING BACK OUR PARTY!! I think we give the ultimatum. And, I believe he'll be with us.

it's time he used it. Screw the muzzle.

He has been all over the TV and radio speaking out.

I stick with Dean and rebuilding the DNC.

I am so disappointed in the Democrats who broke away from their party on this issue. I guess they don't think they work for *US* and that they can do whatever they damn well please, regardless of the thousands of phone calls and E-mails they got.

I'm all for cleaning house! Do you suppose Howard Dean truly has what it takes to kick some traitor Democratic Senate butt?

if we demand it, and stick our necks on the line with him.

join the Democratic revolution...and, BTW, it's not "their" party, it's OUR party. :hi:

"and they keep voting like this..."

If we had a majority the whole thing would be different. That's the best way to make votes like this unnecessary in the first place.

and they voted the wrong way. What you are telling me is that they don't have a spine unless they are in the majority. Whatever happened to principle?

we need to let them unequivocally know:

WE'RE MAD AS HELL, AND WE AREN'T GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!

TIME HAS COME TODAY!

we either stand and fight, or fold the tents.

And I'm not moving to one just to vote out of revenge.

We lost.

We are not the majority of the country.

We are barely the majority of the democrat party.

The democrats take us for granted, and only play these games for fundraising purposes.

I say we go form a new party.

not a red state? I used to live in Tarrant Co., not a red county...but, TX is a red state nationally.

Welcome, but on DU the adjective is Democratic. You'll be called a Republican if you use Democrat as an adjective.

I heard Louise Slaughter refer to the Democrat party only last week.
I think it may often be more of a grammatical slip than
a purposeful slur.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=276498&mesg_id=276498

NGU.

War is won a battle at a time....If we can defeat Joe L with a true Dem...then maybe others will get the message.

Before building it, we must first cleanse it by making examples of 3 democrats qwho deserted us--Lets oppose Lieberman in the primary and the other two in the general election

I refuse to lift a finger for these useless rat bastards.

WE NEED OUR OWN PARTY!!!!! A DIFFERENT, MORE PROGRESSIVE PARTY......WITH BALLS TO STAND UP AND FIGHT! I say we get Paul Hackett or someone like him, to lead the exodus from this pathetic excuse of a party..

R.oberts
A.lito
T.homas
S.calia

Fitting description, for them and those who let it happen. If they're not there when it really counts, then how can we ever trust them again on anything?

Good to see you. After Landrieu's vote, makes me sick we worked so hard to help her out. (Not really, we were doing for the victims). Looks like the doc we are looking for is in the white house, and they are claiming exec. privilege to keep from letting it go.

I don't know if I'm presidential material, but I do know I'd be a hell of a lot better than the stooge that's there now. I'll tell you what--you run, and I'll be your running mate. :-D

My freshman-college daughter is going to major in political science. She's ticked tonight, too. She wants to work in govt. Maybe one day, when she's President, I'll get her to invite all the good DU gang to the White House for one hell of a party. Whaddayathink?

And get busy supporting a real dem to run against Nelson in FL.

... party and we know that "We the People ..." are going to do just that:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=275256&mesg_id=275256

We need one "PAC" and Dr. Dean should lead it. Whether it's called the DNC is irrelevant, it's what it delivers that matters. Stuff like the DLC, DCCC, DSCC should just be flushed because of too much limp, lame, irrelevant baggage.


Peace.

you "understand life" in the Dem. party and in the country. You are right. We need to make as many calls to Howard Dean as we made for the past week to every Senator....same message...get our shit together on the same damned page. The Backlash Cometh.

and get active and take over the party. We liberals and progressives run the Democratic Party in California and you liberals and progressives in other states can run it where you are. You have to join, pay your dues, work for the Party and then you will be able to vote on who the Party supports. If you don't participate you can't complain.

still have Jim Marshall and Zell Miller...and party-switching democrats. Maybe we can win over the college Democrats and they can move it where it's supposed to be in time. These DINOs in GA are crawling all over the place. About the only ones I know that I can stomach are Max Cleland, Mark Taylor, Andrew Young, and a few others in the Black Caucus.

DiFi, finally, to support the filibuster...I was about to think it wasn't happening.

knew which side they were on today. Even the whiners like Harry Reid and Omama (sad to say because I really admired both of these senators till the past couple of days) are better than the losers who voted for cloture.

I hate her political betrayal all the way through.

All politics is local. Wherever you are, make it happen. Those of us who are in places with good Sens, etc. can mobilize to help out the others.

in the Potomac? (No, I don't want to pollute the water any further) How about "tea" in biodegradable containers that look like Diebold machines?

I've taken a step or two back from politics these last couple of months or so. And I've asked myself why, when our cause is just, when we just want a fair and free nation for everyone, do we continue to be bullied by a minority group of greedy and evil people?

The answer came in the form of my fiance's family -- native Oklahomans, lifelong residents of a very conservative part of the country. Both my fiance's father and mother, as well as his older sister voted for Bush. My fiance, being well-informed (and never having visted DU, BTW) did NOT. When I began a gentle discussion of all the idiocy, malice, and outright thievery perpetuated upon Americans by this administration, his parents were, in a word, STUNNED. They supported Alito because, well, they supported Bush. These aren't terribly religious people; they don't think Bush is G*d's "Chosen Man." They've just grown up as life-long Republicans and haven't really bothered to pay attention to the fact that this is no longer the rational, conservative, fiscally-responsible party of decades past.

I suspect that a fair amount of the American populace feels the same way. Let's face it. We don't control the Presidency, the Senate, the House, the FCC, nor any other federal branch of government. We didn't have the power to do much besides make some noise. If we are sick of the Democratic party, as it is currently, then the way to change things is to STOP ELECTING MODERATES AND CONSERVATIVES in places where liberals have a good shot at winning. I'm a realist. Alabama is not going to send a liberal Democrat to the Senate. But Texas might. They have some very interesting demographics around the Austin, San Antonio, and Dallas areas.

We elect conservative and moderate Democrats and then bitch and complain about them being... MODERATE AND CONSERVATIVE. We've got to start with the House and Senate. In my opinion, they are even more important than the Presidency. A President without the support of the House and/or Senate is nothing but a lameduck. He/she won't be able to push an agenda or get legislation passed.

This is where our focus should be and it should start with midterms. Our theme from now on should be "Vote Republicans Out of Office." Period. And to do this, we need to educate the uninformed, explaining not only the consequences of voting Republican, but the benefits of voting Democratic.

you're right....I'm using hyperbole to make a point here. I'm talking about a "long-term" steady campaign to make sure that we make sure the leadership knows that if they don't lead, we will get folk who will....over time we will win...but, we FIGHT and stop "going along to get along."

It's called democracy.

and not just one issue, either. Let's take the party power structure, starting at the grassroot level, and "takeover"---a Democratic takeover...and when we get in power...LEAD.

:mad:

board of directors for themselves or their immediate family, and no DLC.

have a handful of core values they must reiterate and use as a touchstone for all decisions:

• privatization
  
  
• deregulation
  
  
• tax cuts for the rich and corporations
  
  
• neoliberalism (screwing other countries for corporations, which tends to inspire terrorism)
  

are almost always bad.

• single payer health care
  
  
• public education (reduce class size and pay teachers more)
  
  
• promoting a broad middle class
  
  
• transparency in government
  
  
• corporate responsibility at home and abroad (not screwing people on behalf of corporations tends to reduce terrorism)
  
  
• an energy policy that puts renewables and energy independence as top national priorities.
  

are non-negotiables and MUST be done.

progressive party.
:eyes:

I realize that I am in the minority here, but I disagree with the common DU belief that our democratic senators are only as good as their most recent vote.

Feingold voted for Roberts, Kucinich and Dean have supported flag buring bans... I often disagree with our dems. But at the end of it all, I know any dem from Bayh to Kucinich is better than any republican.

but, all the carping we do needs to be channeled into action. Many of our so-called leaders are not hearing us. There has to be a way to "wake them up." They need to UNDERSTAND in no uncertain terms how angry we are at this very important vote. This is one of the most important issues we have. WE rolled over and played dead.

The time has come for a party split. Progressive Democrats can more effectively leverage our numbers if we take the 20 odd senators and 80 or so reps and form a new party with better discipline and a unified party platform.

We can also form a coalition with the Greens. Something that has long been and assumption made by the arrogance of the Democratic party.

The first steps are to locate a suitable forum location to base operations out of and start recruiting Senators and Representatives both at the state and local levels to leave the Democratic party and form a new party. (Meetup.com will likely be the location) Look for PROGRESSIVE DEMOCRAT PARTY meetups to form. Form one in your local area.

Progressive Democrat citizens need to know that this is the way. The first step is to recruit a leader already on the national stage. Who shares the values and platform that focuses on:

Peace
Clean Renewable Energy
Universal Healthcare
Election Reform
Sane Military Spending
Infrastructure
Free Quality Education
Public Media Ownership
Corporate Responsibility
Choice
Separation of Church and State
Marriage Equity

who would switch to such a party.

Where do I sign up!!!

Since I don't own a gun or have the heart to start chasing Joe through the Connecticut woods. if they can't be accountable for their party platform and membership and representation and the precedents of their institutions and predecessors, how on earth can they hold the Bush people accountable for anything? And if they can't they are failed leaders themselves and must step down. So much of this is not really ideology unless ideology means one sided bi-partisanship and loyalty to Bush, first last and always.

Accountability begins at home and those responsible for the hobbled splits in the party must heal not "take back" the people's power whose reins they do not hold. And healing means retirement or honest change and contrition of which we know by experience in hearing their effusive craven bowing before Bush and the red meat polls they are more than capable. Just not with their base or activists who give but do not receive contrary to the civil servant job description we elected them to fulfill.

Full accountability begins at home. There are millions of Democrats, maybe a dozen for each reigning careerocrat who are better in every way and ready to be held accountable for what America and the party stands for without the pious evasions and arrogant betrayals. Accountability because who wants a bunch of low key value DLCers to force the party to truly adopt a hardline radical left equivalent to the monster idiots in the GOP? There truly is a center liberal majority, unable to find its name because those accountable for public discourse have failed or betrayed it.

The actual wars are against evil men destroying America who must be held accountable for their crimes., even destroying their own party. That would be the Bushistas for example, not the feckless inhibitors like smoking Joe. The other war would be the battle for survival which will take on new meaning because we screwed around too long letting fools and scoundrels waste our time and resources. The irritating presumptive New Dems or whatever the shrinking violets are are not worth a war, but they certainly endanger our ability to conduct the other necessary ones.

When the GOP first got rabid majorities, some fled the loss of position and the unpleasantries of facing the scary ruffians. Some surprising people like Bradley, a liberal. That wasn't accountability, just dodging. Others overstay their usefulness to the American people and exhaust common sense in their positions. That isn't accountability, it is clinging to illusions. They can't hear the catcalls from the other side nor consider their minority position anything but humbly natural even preferable(unless someone would give them real power they couldn't handle now, teehee). Several important things have made them accountable for abject failures, fatal mistakes and direct contradictions to their post and identity.

In all charity they should be approached, praised for past contributions and gently urged to get out before they get a primary challenge they can't refuse.

Or we can line up with nerf bats, a hundred thousand of us and a few hundred of them.

In all charity they should be approached, praised for past contributions and gently urged to get out before they get a primary challenge they can't refuse.

Or we can line up with nerf bats, a hundred thousand of us and a few hundred of them.

Either way works for me! lol.

We've seen what horrible things the Democrats are doing to us! What we need now are fewer Democrats.

And don't let those 25 off the hook just because they voted for the filibuster. That group includes Biden and Bayh. You can't trust anyone that associates with those two! Hell you can't trust any politician that doesn't vote your way 100% of the time!

I think we all know what we must do...final solution to the Democratic question. They must all be purged! Only then will we be pure. Then the elitists can reign supreme and enjoy their lattes with absolute power!

:sarcasm:

The Democratic party was dead and buried in 1948, again in 1972, again in 1987, again in 2000, again in 2004,....but this time in 2006 we mean it! :)

The only one to vote your way 100% of the time is you. I applaud the courageous DUers and other grass-roots activists who have chosen to run for office. :applause: I applaud anyone who chooses to be FOR someone rather than AGAINST anyone. :yourock:

when it comes to one of the most important votes a Senator can make in the shaping of this country, and who claim to be pro-life, pro-separation of powers, etc. to do all they can to keep this country headed in that direction.

"I applaud anyone who chooses to be FOR someone rather than AGAINST anyone." I do too. Let's run candidates who are FOR our principles against those who are against our principles.

The working class with their elitism, driving them to the right, and those who ignore class issues.

Time for another smoke.