So I guess we have our Democratic "litmus test" now, and its not the IWR

It used to be that some DUers labelled anyone who supported the IWR as a DINO. Now its the Alito filibuster issue.

So to review, these Senators (who voted for the IWR) are now heroes, and these Senators (who voted against the IWR) are now bums:

Bums (that formerly were heroes):

Byrd
Akaka
Conrad
Bingaman
Inouye

Heroes (that were formerly bums):

Kerry
Bayh
Biden
Clinton
Schumer
Feinstein
Reid

I've probably left some out. But hopefully, some of you will get the point.

onenote

However, some people put so much faith in individuals that they are surprised each time a vote does not go the way they want.

There is nothing wrong saying a vote was wrong, though.

as far as how our elected officials vote, before I will label them bum or hero!

Just my $0.02

The others never did impress me to begin with

we are being played for fools

In both cases it is quite clear:

1. Only Congress has the right to declare war, and most in Congress did NOT do their job. In fact they went around the Constitution, and gave the executive branch power that they should not have done

2. Alito has made it very clear that he does NOT believe in the seperation of powers. I believe that it will be the actual up or down vote on alito that will be the LITMUS test, rather than the filibuster. Those are the people I will be looking at who vote for alito


What will also be interesting is how many repukes have NO PROBLEM VOTING THE PARTY LINE for alito

So what makes a Democrat in your book? When should a Democrat be a team player and when a maverick?

What role should party discipline play in the Democratic Party?

Or should it play any role?

What's the difference between a Democrat and a Republican to your way of thinking?

Identify which members of that group voted for Scalia. :)

I didn't, BTW, although I strongly opposed it.

The Republicans whipsawed a lot of Democrats into voting for it by arguing that failure to do so would tie Bush's hands at the UN, where Bush was supposedly trying to get UN support for renewed inspections backed by world sanctions.

Some Dems voted for it because they had near- or long-term Presidential aspirations and felt they couldn't be seen as being on the wrong side of the vote on it for that reason.

Some, probably, bought the administration line that there were WMDs there that, in the wake of 911, had to be dealt with.

I didn't see the Alito cloture vote as being that nuanced. Alito had a clear record and there isn't much doubt about the sort of Supreme Court justice he is apt to be. Those who voted against him were mostly Red Staters fearful, rightly or wrongly, of fundie retaliation. Some of these same Democrats will actually vote in favor of Alito -- something that I really find amazing -- for the same reasons.

:kick:

We like being routinely whipped. We like not having an Opposition Party. We like the 12 years of retreat that the party leaders have led us through. It is comfortably numb.

Really. It is my intepretation of those who support the status quo, and that is what the OP said. Lets all just get along. Fuck that.

Even if they're not "perfect" Democrats.

onenote

These objective sanity checks are good for us.

the potential consequences of Alito's confirmation to the Court, I'd say it's a pretty good litmus test if there has to be such a thing. As important as the IWR vote was, it pales in comparison to votes concerning the Court.

Want to complain about republicans when the Roberts Court overturns Roe? Or when workers' rights are even further eroded by the Court? Or when Scalia finally gets his way and the Roberts Court rules that no one, no where and no how has any standing to ever bring an environmental suit (unless of course it's a corporation suing to *challenge* an environmental law)? Or when the ghost of Rehnquist visits the Court the day that they overturn Miranda? Want to complain about republicans when the cops are given the right to search and seize your property based on mere suspicion rather than probable cause? When warrants are a quiant notion of the past? When the Unitary Executive sends more men and women into another war for PNAC?

Go ahead and complain about republicans when and if any of those things happen. But be damn sure and remember that the Go Along to Get Along faction of the Democratic party stood with them and made those things possible.

My post was in reaction to some of the posts I'm seeing here that seem to think that any Democrat who voted for cloture (regardless of any other vote they may ever have cast and regardless of whether they cast an admittedly futile vote against confirming Alito) should be turned out of office, even if it means a repub takes the seat. You want to see further erosion of workers rights or environmental protections? I'd worry first about the Senate and then about the SCOTUS. Its not the Supreme Court that's going to decide if the minimum wage should be increased or that will provide funding for watershed protection or that will pass or defeat ANWR, so-called "late term" abortion bans, and on an on. Those are legislative issues and on many of them we have been hanging on by the skin of our teeth. I'm not naieve about the threat that the SCOTUS could pose to individual liberties, but trading in Byrd or Cantwell for a McConnell or Cornyn is not my idea of progress either.

onenote

But, the sellout on Alito is a close second.

the "good" side, and I watch to see if they stay there. Call me an eternal optimist.
When they vote for the dark side, I'll kick their ass all over again.
I really like to focus on the good guys who never let us down and there are damn few of those, but I love them.

And for the consistent rat bastards? I'll work my ass off to make their seat available for a real dem.

I still think your post was funny - thanks for the only chuckle I've had since yesterday.