Family Sues US Mint Over Rare Coins

It doesn't matter if they were stolen yesterday,
or 73 years ago; they remain the legal property of the Mint.

If they can prove they were in fact stolen.

Since the Mint never altered the legal status
of the coins to "in circulation", ANY of them
in private hands are being held illegally. It's
not even a question.

If this is NOT the case, I think we'd better watch out, because if I were a Native American, I'd be waiting to see how THIS one comes out.

"Pull up stakes and VAMOOSE, White Man."

Just my opinion.

If the mint had insurance and the insurance paid, then it would be the insurance company, not the mint, who was due the money.

So there clearly was a legal leg to stand on 4 years ago.

The Secret Service had tracked down and seized 8 of
them by the 1950s, but number 9 eluded them due to
a very unique set of circumstances.

Number 9 was in the possession of Egypt's King Farouk,
and there was some serious political pressure to overlook
a lot of stuff he was doing at the time.
Rather than "make a Federal case out of it", the USA
eventually chose to deal with it through Diplomatic channels;
they ASKED him politely to return it.

He politely said "No".

Further confusing the matter was the fact that Farouk had
applied for, and received, an EXPORT LICENSE to take the coin
out of the USA.
Apparently, whoever processed his paperwork was unaware of
the special status of that coin, and had simply approved it
as just one more form among many. (King Farouk bought A LOT
of collectibles which required routine paperwork)

So, in the 2002 case, it was being argued that all of these
factors added up to "The Government gave approval for
this coin to be on the market".

All the evidence was really a confusing, contradictory mess;
a HUGE can of worms that no one really wanted to open after 50 years.

Neither side had any certainty that the case would go in their favor,
so they both agreed COMPROMISE was the safest solution.

The decision reached in that case was UNIQUE, and applies ONLY
to the Farouk specimen. There's very little there which will
be of any use to the plaintiffs in this new case.

The existing precedent for these 10 seems fairly clear- the
SS seized the last 8 and kept them, and there's really nothing
that's gonna make these 10 any different in the eyes of the law.

mentioned in the article - that coin was also stolen, but they agreed to split the sale value with the possessor. That established precedent. The possessors of the new cache have every right to expect the same treatment as the first received.

Who knows what happened back in the day. These could have been misplaced, fallen off the truck, whatever, and found by somebody. A U.S. Mint supervisor could have granted permission(yes that would have been a mistake, but it would also mean that they weren't stolen) for another employee to snag a few.

This is America friend, you simply can't declare that somebody, somewhere committed a crime without evidence. It is how our system of justice works.

Of course, you are correct about ONE thing- I cannot
say that the coins were ACQUIRED via a criminal act.
(That's why I have not done so, although I really do ASSUME that they were)

No one can say that, since NO ONE has ever shown exactly
what happened between the Mint and the deceased gentleman's
safety deposit box. That story is lost; everyone who ever knew it
apparently felt it was best not to tell it.

But POSSESSION is a different story entirely.

The coins are quite simply, clearly, and directly NOT LEGAL TO POSSESS.
Therefore, they are not possessed LEGALLY.

(Pharmaceutical companies LEGALLY manufacture and utilize pure amphetamines;
but if some gets "misplaced, or falls off a truck", that don't make
it legal for me to pick it up and auction it off, now does it?)

Only THREE of those coins actually have LEGAL PERMISSION to even EXIST.
Two were specifically given to the Smithsonian, and can never legally
be sold or transferred.

The famed "King Farouk Specimen" presented such a tangled Gordian Knot
of provenance and precedents that not even the US government wanted
to deal with it in court, (and ain't THAT sayin' something right there!)
so a case-specific, non-general compromise was reached which
included a very SPECIFIC, LEGALLY BINDING statement that that PARTICULAR coin
was a UNIQUE commodity which could be traded legally.

The only "precedent" which applies to the latest 10 examples discovered
is the same "precedent" which applied to the first 8: The law as written.

The law says NO ONE can have any. Period, end of story.

The law is CLEAR, and it makes -NO- exceptions for
Grandpa's cobwebbed deposit box, winking shift-managers at the Mint,
or defective latches on armored-car doors.

for President Bush's military adventures.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

They hafta be nuts if they thought they'd get them back. The Mint even got nasty with people who found 1943 real copper pennies, and they were legitimate mistakes that got into circulation.

Possession is 9/10ths of the law.

Bye bye coins. Sorry for the family.

to the gov't in the first place. Would anyone do it today?

Rumor still has it that some are "out there". The Mint even let employees buy them as they were being produced, then told the employees they wanted them back when the decision was made to discontinue production. Theory is that some Mint employees switched older dollars for their 1964's since the Mint handled the returned coins by weight only. They didn't check the dates.

The Mint is ESPECIALLY neurotic about the '64 Peace dollar.

All 13 years of Morgans from that little branch mint that invokes so much history.

They're probably already destroyed. What the hell where you doing handing them over anyway? You had at least 70 million dollars worth of coins and you just gave them up. I'm sorry, but these people are morons.

All 10 of them in a very elaborate showcase. I saw pictures of them. The Mint plans to use them for publicity and when not in use they're storing them at Fort Knox. They're probably the only gold left in Fort Knox.

That sets a precedent I would think.

Being a collector this is a great topic we've all been following for some time...

in his book Illegal Tender : gold, greed, and the mystery of the lost 1933 Double Eagle.

According to various accounts, Israel Switt had many contacts and friends within the Philadelphia Mint, and reportedly had access to many points of the minting process. It is believed that Switt obtained the stolen 1933 Double Eagles through his personal relationship with Mint Cashier George McCann. (One possible theory is that McCann swapped previous year Double Eagles for the 1933 specimens prior to melting, thereby not compromising accounting books and inventory lists.)

As described in the January, 2006 edition of COINage, some in the numismatic world have advanced an argument that Switt could have legally obtained the 1933 coins when he was exchanging gold bullion for coins. He did that often, and although the Mint records clearly show that no 1933 Double Eagles were issued, there were allegedly three weeks in March 1933 when new Double Eagles could possibly have been legally obtained.

Actually, reviewing my own posts on this thread, I realize
that I may be coming across as being in favor of these coins
being melted down.

And the truth is, that's not true.

I am totally AGAINST any destruction of rare collectables, just for starters.
As far as we know, only 13 exist- destroying 10 of them is not just WRONG,
not even a "crime"...it would be a SIN, IMNSHO.

Hey, was a CRIME committed somewhere along the road between the Mint
and Israel Switt's safe deposit box? Almost certainly.

But are the people who COMMITTED that (alleged) crime dead and gone?
Definitely so!

And what HARM did that (probable) crime cause? On paper, a $200 loss to
the U.S. Federal Government:
In the "Farouk Specimen" case, the Mint demanded COMPENSATION for the coin;
the anonymous buyer who paid over 7.6 million dollars for the coin
also had to cut a $20 check to the US mint for the "actual book value"
of their "loss".

So, why not let these folks pay the Mint the $200 for the LEGAL, ESTABLISHED "face value"
of the coins, and stop WASTING our tax dollars in an attempt to DESTROY
some rare pieces of US history?

So, the Mint got ripped off for $200 over 70 years ago. I accept that.
Whoever did it, got away with it. They went to their grave without being
prosecuted for that theft, and that's just the way it is.

But, does it serve any sort of JUSTICE... is that picayune $200 crime in any way
rectified....by spending many THOUSAND$ of dollars to have Government Lawyers
fight to DESTROY Seventy Million dollars worth of unique, irreplaceable Americana?

They'll use them as "advertisements" at coin shows as they did at Denver. A Mint display of these coins sells their other products. This, I'm sure, is the primary reason behind keeping all of them. The Mint saw "promotional" gold.