What is this no impeachment deal ?

I hear Pelosi and then Conyers take impeachment off the table . I am confused .

It seems insane to think that they need to express this as if bush would not know this is a game plan if it were a game plan .

Is this a game for our benefit or an illusion ?

You see I hear people here say impeach and other say not to impeach . On malloys show last night Mike expressed his anger that they took it off the table and then Randi is talking about a game plan .

What I would like is just the truth laid out and that's all , no games played by children , have'nt we had enough lies and games already ?

There was all thi talk about impeachment before the elections and most seemed to agree this is definetly the way to go , now here come the games and the batting around whether what is the best way to approach this .

I feel the house knows damn well what their game plan is and I feel bush and cheney know all too well what the plan is as well , so who is kidding whom and why continue this fooling around , this is where I become some what lost .

running for president to mess with impeachment

that Pissy Pants and Darth Cheney have committed crimes, they will have to impeach.

Why do shrub and co. deserve special treatment?

It's ridiculous to say that it is "off the table."

It is all a game to them . I could personally care less how their lives go what is important is to fix this mess america is in .

I have been hearing the same worn out issues for 50 years now and still the same problems exist and each 4 years there are more problems added to an already long list . Now we are a so called global community which I feel is a crock of shit . We need diversity in this world otherwise it is no longer a world of culture but instead a steril planet of trade and bordom .

I would prefer to respect other cultures and have diversity . I would prefer to flush this high tech downturn and go back to reality and slow things down .

Starting with Reagan we began to fall , now we have hit the bottom and the high tech society is not going to pull us out , only truth and humanity can get us out of this mess . I see no other way .

We can't ignone the old or the young and we can't ignore the poor or the homeless . . We can't be a nation of the computer age without loosing our humanity and our future . If we can't get over ourselves then we all loose in the end .

Bush still has enough power along with cheney and other heads of other nations to continue this massive destruction so it appears we do need a revolution of all the people of all the nations against their own power structures in order to set this globe back on some sort of path so we can all live with some hope for a reasonable life , if not then what is the point of going on if you do have a conscience .

I think I understand why Nancy has downplayed impeachment as much as she has been able, which is considerably. I don't much approve, but I understand.

Remember her first breakfast with Bush? Morning after the election. She was civil to the man, she was offering him a way out. The nation is in trouble, the worst of its history; Bush is the reason. If she had come out snarling it would have locked up our Government tight as a drum until something snapped. That snapping would probably have been an impeachment sometime next summer. By offering up the fig leaf Nancy at least allowed the new Congress to get started with its myriad of work - something that could never happen if impeachment was high on the block right now. However Nancy has to know as well as anyone else that once the hearing begin there will be other excesses uncovered that may even exceed those we know of now.

There are also cases in the courts that won't see daylight until next spring that will demand action independent of today's priorities.

So it doesn't bother me much that its off the table for the moment. I know that there is much public outrage to come. There will be historical hearings this spring, there will be consequences of historical significance as well, I'm sure of it.

they can't put it back on. I think they want to soften any resistance to impeachment by exposing bush's crimes using the investigative powers they now have. time is a factor. We also have to prove to the American people that we can govern in a responsible manner.

Still it is important to undo the damage done by bush and his congress. That is the first job. With us in control of congress we can keep bush in check to some extent.

In the end, impeachment doesn't mean shit. Getting fired mean nothing to a sociopath multimillionaire. The only meaningful punishment is to charge bush and his junta with crimes against humanity. Investigating his crimes will show the need for those charges to be brought against him.

But by taking it off the table then putting it back on then makes the dems seem like they are flip flopping , I hate that term .

I suppose they need to investigate but then this will take years so they may as well wait until bush is out and go after him with war crimes where he and cheney and others can be brought up on criminal charges in court .

But two more years can result in alot more damage with these freaks in power , look what they did in the last two years even though they may at least be slowed down some now .

I still do not have much faith in any politician doing what the people really need . Everything is so up side down .

The Nation will demand it. It will be served.

too. I think we need to take a number of things into consideration. For instance, the Reagan tax code rewrite (to remove the progressive tax, and start favoring the rich), the unfair trade agreements of the '90s, the Iraq War, and a lot of the regressive legislation of the last six years, including the very, very bad fast-tracking of Bushite-controlled electronic voting systems all over the country--none of this could have occurred without the direct or indirect complicity of our very compromised and corporatized Democratic leadership. This has not all been the rightwing fascists doing us in. But things have gotten so bad that, at last, reform has begun WITHIN the Democratic Party, with the rise of many progressive Democratic groups, and the new activism of the grass roots. I think this began to be evident in the 2004 election campaign. Although the theft of that election was a great blow to the grass roots, and it took some time to recover from it, the overall trend is very much toward the progressive majority--not just in our party but also in the country as a whole--re-taking the initiative and demanding proper representation in our government. This finally started coming to partial fruition in the '06 midterms, in which the Dems won control of both houses, in spite of tremendous odds against this happening--odds that included rightwing corporations owning and controlling the TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY code by which all of our votes are now tabulated.

Several things must have come into play--one being the caution of these vote-counting corporations (fear of losing their election theft capability--so they limited the use of it this time), voters overwhelming the machines in some cases, with anti-Bushite votes (votes for change), the overwhelming sentiment in the country, reflected in all polls (anti-Iraq War, anti-Bush, anti-Bushite Congress), and also possibly some kind of fracture among the Corporate Rulers (the Iraq War has become "bad for business" maybe?), so that the war profiteering corporate news monopolies hit the Bushites with an old pedophile scandal four weeks before the elections (a very odd bit, that).

But the Dem success in the midterms would not have been possible without tremendous activism on the parts of a lot of progressive people and concerned citizens--and also the new winds of change within the Dem Party, such as Howard Dean's 50-state strategy. There has also been a tremendous amount of work done on election theft and the gaping vulnerabilities in our voting system, with many eyes were upon it this time. Fraud occurred (the Dems should have won much bigger) but it was kept to a minimum. We at least now have a CHANCE for a "clean house"/implement reform agenda. A year ago, know what I know about our election system, I would have said that this was not possible--without serious election reform. But it happened in spite of a broken and very fraud-prone election system. That's how STRONG the momentum for change is. Very strong.

Another big blow to the country's majority was the Iraq War. Not many people know that FIFTY-SIX PERCENT of the American people opposed the Iraq War from the beginning--back in Feb. '03. It sort of got lost in the shuffle. 56% would be a landslide in a presidential election. Also, this number had to have included many Republicans--who also didn't trust Bush's word, and didn't think the situation warranted a war. (I actually think that possibly more Republican votes for Kerry were stolen in '04 than Democratic votes.) As a matter of fact, the American people have shown themselves amazingly resistant to the 24/7 war and fear propaganda, and have kept a lot of their progressive views in tact, despite the heavy pressure to change them. For instance, 63% of the American people oppose torture "under any circumstances" (May '04). 70% of the American people now reject Bush and his heinous war. 84% of the American people oppose any US involvement in a widened Mideast war. And that's how MOST of the polling stats go--and have gone over the last 2-3 years--on every major Bush policy, foreign and domestic.

The only vulnerabilities I see in the American public are its tendency to believe that the rightwing minority is the majority (it never has been and never will be). This has been one of the war profiteering corporate news monopolies' few propaganda successes. And, the tendency of the public to trust the voting system as a vehicle for change--its blindness to what was being done to our voting system (the complete corporate privatization of vote-counting, fast-tracked over a two year period, 2002-2004). But I think things are changing very fast on both of these scores--a credit to a new word of mouth network among Americans, and the internet, and also our native common sense and intelligence as a people. People are hungry for real news and opinion, and are finding their ways around the corporate propaganda. Also, in the recent midterms, there really was a very big voter protest against the machines. 50% of the state of California voted by Absentee Ballot--and there was a big increase all over the country. People don't trust the machines. They've gotten that much. They still have to learn that riggable electronics are used throughout the system--including the counting of AB votes. But there is a big constituency now for election reform, whereas in 2004 there was NONE. A few voices crying in the wilderness. Now our job is to prevent phony, cosmetic reform.

Americans are the most propagandized people on earth. Intense efforts are used to keep us in line, more than any other population. Because if WE break loose from the Corporate Rulers, and start doing what should be done, with regard to them, we are going to revolutionize the world (or, perhaps I should say, join the revolution that is already in progress, and greatly magnify it with our power as American voters, our numbers and our economic heft). What was the Corporate Rulers' reaction to our 50,000-strong protest against bad globalization in Seattle '99? To slander us from one end of the corporate news monopolies to the other (and even some so-called leftist publications joined in). We shut down the WTO (peacefully, if the truth were known--which, of course, is not widely known). And that protest led to a 20-country revolt at the WTO meeting in Cancun a few years later (the third world countries, led by Brazil).

This is why the Corporate Rulers took over our election system with TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code in all the new electronic voting systems--because we are so potentially powerful as a force for good in the world. The Iraq War--which seems so senseless--may even be a plot to impoverish us, to drain us of resources for the fight against the Corporate Rulers, who have been spreading economic mayhem and oppression everywhere, and are destroying our planet. At the very least, that is a side-benefit for those who do not want democracy here. (It's hard to be an active, informed citizen, when you're trying to hold down two $7/hr jobs to feed your family--and society's safety nets are being one by one removed.)

The most critical thing for us to fight is our feelings of demoralization and disempowerment. As I said above, the Corporate Rulers' one propaganda victory was, for a while, to convince progressives that we are the minority--when even their own polls said otherwise. The rightwing has been given a Big Trumpet to promulgate their views, way out of proportion to their numbers. This can make progressives--members of the majority--feel crazy and isolated. It's our main source of feeling powerless--besides stolen elections. The two things work together as a one-two punch to make us GIVE UP. This is what we MUST NOT DO. We MUST NOT give up!

WE are the majority! So our task, as activists, is not so much to convince people as to EMPOWER them. Forget the people who are not convince-able--they are a minority. Work with the people who DON'T VOTE, because they are in despair. Well, a whole lot of such work has gone on. The 06 midterms show that. All we have to do is get the sensible people in this country to the polls, and re-energize their belief in democracy and in a good future.

Things are very bad. I will not minimize what we are up against. But if I thought that the American people were stupid or fascist, or don't care, I would be giving very different advice. Maybe it WOULD have been the right thing to do, in Germany in 1932--to get out! But what I am seeing is American democracy coming back to life. This is not a time to give up; it is a time to re-double our efforts--because the benefits of a reawakened American democracy could be so great, and because we love our country and its people, and want them to be enfranchised, empowered citizens once again. It is a very great shock to Americans to see our country descend into the status of "banana republic." But a whole lot of people--the great majority--still believe in the values of the old republic, and many are fighting back in myriad ways. That is something to SUPPORT--not to negate with depressing thoughts, or with the need to personally retreat. No, it is not an easy task before us--because of all that you say. This country is been deteriorating for a long time, since Reagan. The problems are very grave. But I see a great spirit arising to solve those problems. I see people determined and dedicated to restoring good government, and tackling WHATEVER we have to tackle.

Let me give you just one example: Alternative energy. Americans are going forward on this, despite the great drag of Bush and the oiligarchy. Think what will happen if we manage to elect just half-way decent leadership to the White House (and what may happen with even this Diebold-limited win in Congress). Americans are geniuses at this sort of problem. And we are a highly cooperative population. Given a little leadership, and allocation of resources, and I predict that we will be 100% converted to non-polluting energy in five years. Five years! That's my prediction. We LOVE to solve problems. We LOVE to do things for the common good. We have just not had anyone ASKING us to. And our innovators and organizers are proceeding apace anyway--as best they can.

And this will be the end of the oil wars.

You say, "I still do not have much faith in any politician doing what the people really need." Yeah, I'm afraid that's largely true. But I think the lesson of the last 20 years--if not the last 40 years--is that WE, THE PEOPLE have to lead THEM. It's not what they will do for us. It's what we will force them to do, not just for us, but for everyone, the whole world. WE are ALREADY leading.

That's the very definition of democracy, and we may have only just discovered it, or re-discovered it. I think the Abolitionists, and Suffragettes, and union organizers, and civil rights workers of previous eras knew what democracy really was. The people lead the way. The people demand change. And the politicians eventually follow.

Yes, "everything is so up side down." We've let that happen. And now we have to put it rightside up again. Rightside up is WE LEAD. It's not what THEY do--the politicians. It's what WE do. "Followers" and "leaders" are reversed--and put in their PROPER order.

Hang in there, Blues90. Think how quickly things can change with just a little light, just a little empowerment--progress can come in cascades. But it can also come in increments, over a period of time. And then the big change occurs. I saw this happen in my early life--on black civil rights, on women's rights, on gay rights, on religious ecumenism and liberalization, on our consumer culture and environmental issues, and on matters of unjust war. Change came suddenly--but only after a long, almost invisible buildup, and the hard work of many activists over long periods of time. With as much positive energy as there is now in the U.S., change is coming. It IS happening. Don't give up!

Thank you for your response .

I am glad the dems finally took over and people are waking up .

Where I live I don't see more than consumers and no one talks about world issues much . LA Calif is a I am me city .

I tried to open eyes to this take over , it cost me my job . This is what I get for being honest and reasonable .

I don't know where to begin repairing this country there is so much to do . I am down on luck and contacted groups in new orleans thinking they could use my help to try and rebuild but there is no housing . I would have settled for a roof and food for my labor but .

Can't find work here so this was a chance however no go .

I don't don't feel I will see things come good in my time left .

and Polosi should not be the person placing it on the table. You know what I mean, Vern?

It doesn't matter to us whether or not you think impeachment is off the table... We, the People of the United States put you in office and we can take you out.

They are sworn to defend the Constitution.

Impeachment is the weapon we gave them to defend against threats that come from within the halls of power.

"Off the Table" is a "pre-emptive surrender" and a declaration to violate their oath.

It is up to us to hit them with the biggest http://www.wordspy.com/words/cluestick.asp">Clue Sticks we can find.

The case for impeachment is clear, compelling, and COMPLETE. Everything needed is public record. It has been for years.

The Constitution is under attack. The public has leveled charges (elected bodies, good gov orgs, countless citizens). Members of the House are duty bound to dismiss those charges as baseless, or to accuse (impeach).

We are the victimes of crime. We have reported those crimes. Willfully turning a blind eye is NOT an option for law enforcement, and it is not an option for Congress.

Introduce articles and make the case - that is the ONLY way they can fulfill their oath to defend (note, it is not an oath to win, it is an oath to fight).

The SOLE duty of the House is to accuse. Predictions of outcome in the Senate (which cannot be known by any human anyway) cannot trump their sworn duty.

We take oaths to do tough things for a reason -- so that we JUST DO IT when the time comes.

The time has come.

I can't say it better than this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2882573&mesg_id=2886048

There is no global Democratic Party conspiracy to take impeachment off the table.

Instead, consider why Pelosi and Conyers might say such a thing as, "impeachment is off the table." Is there a logical and reasonable reason for doing such a thing?

The answer is, of course there is.

First, why hand the Republicans a campaign issue on a golden platter? When asked about impeachment by the press, of course Pelosi and Conyers are going to defuse the questions. One can argue that they could have framed it differently, but the fact of the matter is that whatever you say, the "off the table" stand did take the issue off the table for the election.

Second, no matter what people think, impeachment must come from the people, not the Congress in spite of what some people think. There are just over 50% who think that ChimpCo should be impeached if impeachable offenses are demonstrated. The problem with this is that a minority of those people think it has already been demonstrated. And in spite of the blathering about Congress having an obligation to impeach, the people of the United States on the whole think differently.

Now, before I'm portrayed as an anti-impeachment robot, hold on. I am unequivocally for impeachment of Bush, Cheney, and any other idiots who have broken the law in this administration. However, I see it the way it really is. Unless impeachment begins from the people, it will fail. That's just the way it is.

The solution I offer is this. Keep blowing the impeachment trumpets. But also keep pestering Congress for investigations, special prosecutors, and anything else which would expose this administration's crimes. This way, the people can become more informed about just how badly impeachment and removal is needed. That's the only responsible way to approach it. Screaming to Congress about impeachment in absense of investigations at this time will likely fall on deaf ears, and rightly so.

We need the investigations and hearings which have been absent in the past six years. It's a sad situation and is extremely regrettable. But this is the hand we've been dealt. It is now our job to work within the system and under those circumstances.

Impeach? Hell, yes. But let's do this right, or not at all.

It's very obvious to me that Rep Conyers and Ms. Pelosi no longer feel the need to represent WE THE PEOPLE. Do you feel that YOU are now the Government of these United States? We demanded impeachment, but now we are told that impeachment is "off the table" WTF!

Mr. Conyers, I think you know constitutional law and impeachment is the only cure for the disease that is the Bush administration! We've all read your reports and watched your eye-opening hearings on C-Span! Do the right thing Rep. Conyers and restore your dignity and the dignity of the Democratic Party.:grr: