Protesters: Pet store shouldn't sell pets

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/172803,CST-NWS-pets14.article

December 14, 2006
BY KHADIJA ALI Naperville Sun

A local merchant is challenging animal lovers who have been picketing one of his stores by threatening legal action against the protesters.

Picketers last month showed up in front of a Happiness is Pets store that recently opened in Warrenville, protesting the store's practice of selling dogs. One of the store's six locations opened in Naperville four years ago.

The protest was led by Warrenville resident Therese Davis and husband Gary, who want the pet store to stop selling dogs and restrict its sales to pet foods and supplies.

"I'm not against the store, but I'd rather see the adoption of dogs," Therese Davis said.

The Davises and others want Warrenville to approve an ordinance banning stores from selling live animals.

Does the store owner tell THEM how they should make a living?

Self-righteous assholes.

Redstone

There are only a fucking zillion unwanted animals populating the streets, being euthanized everyday and rotting in homeless animal shelters.

TELL THE PEOPLE TO ADOPT AN ANIMAL INSTEAD OF SUPPORTING THIS FUCKING LUNACY.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

the shelter may have? I want an English Bulldog. The San Diego County Animal Shelter has NEVER had one there, they told me. So if I want a Bulldog, tough shit?
Pupy mills are terrible but not all come from them.
Am I a bad person for wanting a pedigree English Bulldog and not wanting to settle for what is available at the shelter?

check them out and go see how the dogs are kept ask questions ect..


I was in the same boat and I found a decent breeder for my new pug puppy. She's adorable.

Or a healthier dog that can actually reproduce without surgical intervention.

Dogs that get sold at pet stores come from puppy mills. They were, for the most part, bred in cages, kept outdoors and fed the cheapest shit food that wouldn't kill them immediately. They're sick, unstable and often dying. Even well-bred English bulldogs have a long list of congenital deformities, buying a badly bred puppy mill specimen at a pet store would be cruel to it and you, but it might pay for vet's car payment for a while.

and now I am opting out of this thread. This is one that would make my blood boil and I am unable to be objective about it.

but they're not dying. Pets from pet stores come with a guarantee. If they kept dying, the stores would lose money.

It's a gamble that the very high profit margin involved in selling the dogs will more than pay for the cost of replacing a few that die or are discovered to be very sick within the first few weeks after the sale. Often the problems in these dogs (bad socialization, psych issues from confinement, bad eyes and teeth, hip dysplasia, parasites) will not show up or reveal their true severity until the pup is fully grown or a thorough vet exam is done. Often people spend a great deal of money to save the dog because they have grown atattched, rather than taking it back to the store and trading it for another dog.

These problems are present before the dogs make it to the store. The store didn't cause the potential medical problems.

The problems are the puppy mill breaders.

The retailer has the responsibility to be sure they sell quality merchandise. Especially when said "merchandise" is in fact a living being.

The retailer has the responsibility to be sure they sell quality merchandise

The consumer decides on the quality that he/she will accept. But this has nothing to do with pet shops selling pets. I would like to see ALL breeders be licensed and meet standards for running a breeding service.

They don't tell people they come from puppy mills even in cases where that's 100% verifiable.

The consumer can't be blamed for making a bad decision based on deceptive information.

there are many wonderful animals, some even with their papers who need a second chance. Try that first.

We got our dog, who came from a champion line, from a breeder who could not breed him because of a congenital defect. Most breeders would have just put the dog down, but she had his problem corrected out of her own pocket and adopted him out. He was the most wonderful dog in the world. I still miss him so!!

No responsible breeder lets a puppy out of her sight without knowing EXACTLY kind of home it's going to.
That's what puppy millers do.

If you want a Bulldog, find a responsible bulldog breeder, or look for a breed rescue.

And believe me, if you buy from a pet store, you're settling.

then all may be right with the world, yes?

Fuck the price paid. I want.

I want a Hummer.

I want a diamond.

I want Nike shoes made in sweatshops.

If you want an English Bulldog, volunteer for rescue. You'll have one in a month.

There is no excuse to buy a dog from a pet shop.

and he follows up on who gets his puppies and will only sell his puppies after a home visit. He cares where his puppies go. The yorkie in my sig was a rescue. Her parents just didn't have the time to devote to her and so we took her in and she is my heart. If I hadn't taken her in, she would have ended up in a shelter..:-( I don't think you are a bad person at all.

I found my best friend in the world on this ugly fucking planet at our local shelter.

My best friend in the world (God rest her soul) found me when I opened the door one wet, rainy and cold morning, and saw her on the porch looking as though she didn't know if I was going to beat her or feed her. Since it looked as though she'd had enough beatings and not enough feedings, I did what any progressive should do.

God, I still miss her almost four years later...

Purebreds my ass... conspicuous consumption is all that is.

And in any case, you're getting a family member, not a product so maybe the personality should be the most important thing.

Second most pups from pet stores come from puppy mills.

You'll have to contact an AKC registered breeder to get a good dog. (and even that takes research) Or contact a breed rescue which are EXCELLENT! Simple.

I use to volunteer at Pet Smart where they allowed several local humane groups to bring pets in that needed adoption. Most days you'd see cats there because it was easy to leave them there overnight at the store; whereas, on weekends they would bring several of the dogs in that needed homes.

So I'm not sure what kind of pets this store is selling. I've been to petstores that sell purebreeds for hundreds of dollars and that makes me sad especially since many of those purebreeds come from puppy mills. But if a petstore can use their store as a way to help homeless pets find homes then I'm all for it!

For the time that I volunteered we found hundreds of cats, including adults like my Evita, new homes and a second chance on life!

And it was my local pet store that took the kittens in.

The protesters' arguments are with those who run the puppy mills. They should take their argument there.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Am I a fucking asshole?

a shoe store sells shoes,
a car dealer sells cars,
a clothing store sells clothes,
just exactly is a PET store suppose to be selling?

I was just inquiring into why I might be considered an asshole for having a certain opinion about the sale of animals.

I prefer pet stores to sell pet supplies. And I don't like it when they sell live animals. It is in accords with my values. I'd be happy to walk you through my point of view, if you'd like.

It starts with an acknowledgment of how things are. While I understand that under a market system individuals are allowed to sell a large variety of goods, I would like to see companion animals removed from the "goods" category. In part because, unlike a pair of shoes or a vehicle, animals are sentient beings and I, under my personal value system, do not classify them as a good. I classify a companion animal as a living entity that deserves more consideration than the impersonal transaction a pet shop will allow. Under my value system, I believe that living with a companion animal is a privilege, so I support adoption agencies in part because of their attempts to screen out individuals that would not be suitable caregivers at that time. Pet stores are unable to do this, and the free market wouldn't much support it. So I would much prefer, based on the above logic, that pet stores simply walk away from the selling of live animals and continue with sales of pet supplies.

I would be happy to provide you with the names of several local pet stores that I frequent that are doing quite well for themselves only selling supplies, should you need further proof that this would not be detrimental to the welfare of the small business owner.

insisting that pet stores in your area bend to your preference or you will continue to picket them?

That might be the asshole part.

and as a member of the overall fabric of this country, I suppose I might exercise my right to voice my values to the shop owner. If I so felt like it. As a private business owner, and as an individual with a seemingly differing perspective, said business owner has every right to disagree. The mess and the acrimony of living a social life is the constant battle over whose opinion will be paramount at any given time. At this time, animals are seen as goods. I am currently forced to "bend" to that position by nature of it being the overwhelming sentiment. I do not support it, however, and see no point in not working equally as diligently to have my perspective heard. Ultimately, it also boils down to me having nary a problem with public protest as a course of action. Perhaps I should add that as well. Some people do not like it, nor do they find it effective. I don't find it problematic, so I do not take particular offense to that tactic.

Again, I don't see how the voicing of one's values or opinions makes them an asshole. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought that was one of those things we were taught to cherish way, way back in elementary school. The right to voice our values. Whether or not we agreed with them. You know, that whole thing.

assholes for interfering with that store owner's right to make a living.

Is that clear now?

Redstone

Thanks for the clarification.

of one guy who owns one pet store. And how do these people KNOW he buys from puppy mills? I've seen stores who refuse to do that, and tell you exactly where the puppy came from and invite you to visit the breeder.

Redstone

Respectfully. :)

I think that the puppy mills can continue to exist because they have a pretty strong base of willing clients...namely pet stores. However, I do appreciate that some pet store owners have gone out of their way to be appropriate and conscientious retailers. I can only be most thankful for that.

As I said earlier, I have an issue with the sale of animals as a quick commercial transaction. It strikes a chord with me, so I am much more sympathetic to the protesters on this particular issue. Not everyone takes issue with this. I can live with that. I'd love to see pet shops voluntarily transition away from the selling of companion animals. Not everyone agrees. I can live with that, too.

But, at the risk of repeating myself, I don't much care for it. :)

People can make a very strong argument for how people need to earn their livings. I understand that. I really do. But I'm a tremendous softie when it comes to animal companions and their welfare, and I am concerned that many wind up in shops via the puppy mill route. Then there is the purchase impulsivity factor. And, well.. I won't carry on again about this.

And speaking of pooches... I have to take my gal out for our nightly walk. Can't keep the little miss waiting!

puppy-mill puppies from the stores.

A strong campaign of public education would go a long way in this matter.

Redstone

But wait... isn't that what the protesters were doing? ;-)

:D

business. That's my point.

Redstone

Yes... I was thinking about what forum one could do this in. I mean, targeting a small business owner as the unwitting ambassador for a whole industry is certainly one approach (probably the easiest), but getting media attention via the legislative route might be another. I know of some jurisdictions in which people have attempted to encourage policies forbidding the sale and exchange of puppy-mill pups. The discussions around that policy could be teachable moments, so to speak. That happened in Michigan when a group protested the fact that a shelter was selling pets to a biotech firm without informing the owners that were relinquishing their pets to the shelter. In the process of bringing attention to that, it was also an informal educational campaign on the whole issue of sales of companion animals to the biotech companies.

Again, I do hear your perspective and appreciate it. I also understand why the business owner, in this case, was selected as the forum for the educating of the peoples of DuPage County, so to speak.

I suppose we disagree on the matter of forum, and that's cool. We'll agree to disagree. :)

Some owners do not take pets from puppy mills. How do the protesters know that this guy does?

would have to sell a hell of a lot of Milk Bones to equal the sale of a one Yorkie. I got my Yorkies from a breeder for 1,000.00 each. A pet store wanted 1,800.00 for a female, and had to get on a waiting list.

I am actually more familiar with pet shops that DON'T sell live animals than pet shops that do. Perhaps living in a city, though, I have the luxury of experiencing an array of shops that might not be present in other areas. But I can say that the shops that I have frequented regularly over the years (7 in different areas of my current city, 3 when I was living in another state) seemed to be doing very well without the sale of companion animals.

I don't deny that stores must be making a tremendous profit from the sale of companion animals, otherwise the practice would not continue. I do not like that practice though, as I mentioned above, so you can imagine that the profit argument holds little sway with me. The next inevitable question will likely be "Then should the stores just go out of business?" to which I would reply, there is little evidence that such a thing would happen automatically upon the cessation of companion animal sales, but it is a possibility for any small business.

Truthfully, I am not sure that any of us are so educated about the ins and outs of the pet shop industry, nor do we know their books well enough, to speak authoritatively on this. I can only speak from my experience, and my experience has been that pet shops selling only supplies have done remarkably well in the locations I have lived. It's about the only empirical evidence I can offer, but lacking more comprehensive information, seeing is believing.

I have no problem with that.

The kind that supply pet stores with dogs like General Mills stocks cereal?

If you had, you wouldn't be calling people who object to these pet farms as self-righteous assholes.

and learn about how when the gerbils and mice get sick, they put them in the freezer to kill them

before you say no one has a right to say anything about "making a living"

Pet Smart and Petco allow local pet shelters to bring cats & dogs in that need new homes. I was a volunteer for a local TNR cat rescue group that helped put adoptable cats up for adoption. We worked next to the section provided for the local Delaware Humane society. Not only did we help give homes to pets who needed a second chance in life (my Evita came from the TNR group that I volunteered) but it was also an opportunity for us to collect donations from shoppers who perhaps didn't need another pet but wanted to help out the cause.

Both PetSmart and PetCo have been criticized for their treatment of animals in their stores.

PetCo had a whole campaign against them for it.

I know both also do good things, such as adopting.

am I an asshole? :silly:

Here some information on puppy mills, the "war profiteers" for pet store puppies:

http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/

Here is another link:

<snip>For those who have never heard of a puppy mill, it's equivalent to solitary confinement for young dogs, with substandard conditions.

As a result, some of the dogs that emerge from puppy mills look either malnourished or in overall bad health.

<snip> That means the dogs eat and relieve themselves in the same 2-by-2-foot cage for about eight years until their breeding days are done.<snip>

<snip> Puppy mills are legal because the federal government considers those puppies livestock -- not pets. <snip>

<snip> Many animal rescuers said dogs coming from puppy mills end up in common pet stores. So when purchasing a dog from a pet store, ask about its history.<snip>

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/news/9161328/detail.html

Shut them down now! Just say NO to puppy mills! :mad:

:dem: :kick:

:mad:

What a shocking concept!
















:sarcasm:

They sell pet supplies only.

. You think a few protesters are going to stop the heartless bastards who buy and then abandon innocent animals are going to let a few protesters stop them? Jeez

ADOPT A HOMELESS ANIMAL INSTEAD.

meaning...what, exactly?

This'll go unanswered. 10 to 1 odds on it.

often aren't even healthy. "Vegetitive state" would apply more to those with a "knee jerk" reaction.

Selling dogs and cats leads to PUPPY MILLS (and KITTY MILLS, too)!!!!

PET STORES SHOULD BE BANNED FROM SELLING ANIMALS!!!

don't harass a legitimate businessman legally trying to make a living.

What about all those people in the 60's who protested against "legitimate businessmen" trying to make a living???

In the 60's, there were plenty of legitimate businessmen who REFUSED to sell to African Americans.

What would you have said to the people who protested outside those establishments????!!!!!

work to change the laws.

don't harass a legitimate businessman legally conducting his business.

same goes for those who protest outside abortion clinics.

I suppose, then, that you would condemn people who protest outside stores selling clothing made in Asia and Latin America by underaged kids in sweatshops.

So much better to wait to have the laws changed.

And THEN wait to have the laws actually enforced.

btw- was the civil rights movement about changing the laws, or harassing small businessmen?

Bush, btw, hasn't been charged with anything, nor has the war in Iraq been adjudicated as illegal. You will, of course, stand defiant to any protest of either Bush or the war, yes? I think there's space next to the Freepers...

legally trying to support his family.

with a little luck, maybe one day you'll understand the difference.

Intent is the key.

Or outside the Whitehouse?

Seems to me like it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.

If he was really serious, he should have just worked on changing the laws. Instead of harassing those poor white people.

:sarcasm:

changing the laws was the furthest thing from MLK's mind...

:eyes:

And I'm sure these protesters couldn't care less about changing the law, right?

the white house is a little different than a guy with a pet shop legally trying to support his family.

Or Haliburton? There's a bunch of workers there just trying to support their families, too.


For your case to have any validity, you''re going to have to describe the precise and relevant moral difference between protesting a small businessman supporting his family for his practices, and protesting a large multinational corporation whose employees are also trying to support their families.

I'm certainly not attempting to be rude, so please don't read that into my questions, yet in the above two examples, I see absolutely no moral or ethical difference; because, as I see it, it's still six of one and half a dozen of the other... the only (non-relevant) difference is the scale and scope.

1st amendment, buddy

people have a right to be as stupid as they want.

how do you feel about the people who have massive protests outside abortion clinics?

Despite the efforts of the Republicans and apparently some Democrats.

Holding signs, which is all we know the pet store protesters did, is CLEARLY protected free speech and it's very disturbing that anyone here cannot see that.

Don't even TRY to equate these people with abortion doctor killers.

protesting is hearsing in some situations.
Ever heard of people "protesting" abortion clinics?
Ever hear of Phred Felps and his minions "protesting" funerals?

http://www.stoppuppymills.org/

I guess we should try to stop the war by voting, then going home and not doing anything else?

have more money to fight us.

http://www.friendsofanimals.org/programs/spay-neuter/puppy-mills-pet-shops-the-akc-basic-facts.html

a "legitimate business" is? Some people have a different view on that, often it takes time for the laws to catch up with what is right or "moral". Also the law is more apt to change when there is an outcry or "protest" from the public so it's brought to their attention. :think:

Protesting would just be obstructing his doing the job of the "People's business."

to disrupt your effort to make money?

Redstone

technically you do have the right to protest whatever it is Novalib does for a living.

shoe lines is known to have their shoes made in sweatshops. Would it be OK with you if I kept YOUR customers away from YOUR store?

Redstone

And you have a right to do it, and to influence the way people make their money.

were selling, how would you feel if I kept YOUR customers away from YOUR store?

I bet you wouldn't like it at all.

Redstone

It doesn't really matter how the owner of a store selling IMMORAL merchandise might feel!!

I don't GIVE A FUCK how the owner of a store selling clothes made in Asia by underage KIDS IN A SWEATSHOP!!!!

In fact, I hope HE FEELS REAL SORRY FOR SELLING THAT KIND OF MERCHANDISE.

I HOPE HE FEELS SO BAD, in fact, THAT HE STOPS DOING IT!!!!!!

Redstone

If I "woned (sic) a store, and you didn't like one of the products I
was selling" I WOULD NOT LIKE IT AT ALL if YOU kept MY customers away from MY store?

You are right to say that "I wouldn't like it at all."

AND THAT IS PRECISELY THE POINT!!!!

It is a POINT that you seem not to get.

The FACT that I would not like your protesting my sale of certain items I might be selling MIGHT JUST CAUSE ME TO STOP SELLING THOSE ITEMS, and to sell, instead, OTHER ITEMS!!!!

DUH!!!!

Redstone

YOU asked.

I ANSWERED.

Is your BEST RESPONSE that I "Don't know much about business in the real world, do you?"

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!

Then I would start DOING THE RIGHT THING and helping people who want animals GET SOME OF THE MILLIONS OF UNWANTED ANIMALS AVAILABLE.

Listen, I HAVE NO DESIRE to prevent these merchants from making money.

They can make as much money as they can -- BUT I DO NO THINK THEY SHOULD MAKE ONE DIME FROM SELLING ANIMALS!!!!!

They no doubt sell pet food and pet toys and pet supplies and pet grooming services.

If someone was selling clothes made by underaged kids in sweatshops in Asia, you better believe I would be out protesting in front of their shops!!!

Or would THAT, too, bother you???!!!!

Walmart comes to mind. Are you out picketing them? If not, WHY NOT?

It's much easier to be a keyboard commando.

Bake

You have NO IDEA How I spend my time!!!!!!!

What about YOU -- Are you a "KEYBOARD COMMANDO" who enjoys ATTACKING THOSE OF US who ACTUALLY SUPPORT FREE SPEECH???

That's gotta use up a lot of your free time.

Redstone

Do I protest at EVERY STORE that sells Nike Shoes????!!!!!

WTF???!!!

No.

Actually, I do not have the resources to go to EVERY STORE that sells Nike Shoes!!!!!

What a RIDICULOUS QUESTION!!!!!!!

Hell, every anti-war protest is against someone making money, too.

who owns a single store.

I'll ask you the same question I've asked others. If YOU owned a store, and made your living selling things from that store, and I objected to some product that you sold, how would YOU like it if I interfered with YOUR customers coming into YOUR store?

I guarantee that you wouldn't.

This doesn't have anything to do with puppy mills. This is pure, unadulterated harassment of one small business owner.

If they want to shut down the puppy mills, why don't they take their protest to the fucking puppy mills?

Or try to get a local law passed that prohibits the sale of puppies in pet stores?

Or anything else that's actually constructive instead of harassing one guy?

Redstone

You can picket, but more often than not you'd be standing around a barn or a handful of trailers informing nobody but the neighboring herd of cattle.

Why should they harass a man's business? Does the puppy mill owner tell THEM how they should make a living?:sarcasm:

Redstone

Here is the DUMBEST STATEMENT of the PAST MONTH:

"So, you protest at every store that sells Nike shoes?"

DUMB!!!

TRULY DUMB!!!

Redstone

:rofl: :toast:

If you think it is a good idea, then IT MUST BE A GOOD IDEA!!!!!!

The all caps thing is annoying. In fact it's outright obnoxious. I understand you feel passionately and are trying to convey that..trust me, we get it. Many of us feel strongly and have discovered italics
and boldface
and there is even underlining available for you to express emphasis.
Stop SCREAMING and perhaps a few may listen.

My local pet store, for instance, adopts kittens from people who are giving litters away for free, provides their first vet visit, then sells them. They also sell only pure-bred and first-mix dogs from local registered breeders. Many pet stores do similar things, because they don't want to be associated with disreputable sources for animals.

they are supporting puppy mills.

So, instead of providing space for an ADOPTION FAIR (where people with kittens who are giving away litters for free and where rescued puppies are put up for adoption), your pet store caters to people RICH enough to afford to purchase animals.

How wonderful.

Your example is part of a very, very, VERY small percentile. "Local breeder" doesn't excuse much. Backyard breeders can be just as bad as puppymills.

but buying from any breeder is irresponsible. I look through my local paper on Sundays and there are literally 500 ads in the area from people selling dogs and cats, while our local shelter kills 40,000 a year.

In addition, people think "purebreds" always find homes and it's OK to breed them, but MANY of those end up in the shelter or in purebred rescues, taking the place of other dogs who need homes too and who were not bred on purpose.

Good breeders get to know the people buying their pups, don't breed until they have some potential homes lined up, and follow-up to see how the pups are doing. Those who sell to pet stores do none of these things.

Good points, just wanted to add that.

If they don't rescue, they don't give a shit.

the paper mill registries such as the United Kennel Club do not count. AKC members do not sell through pet stores. And WTF is a "first-mix"? A Terripoo, etc, no doubt. Classic puppy mill output.

I would imagine not all pet stores got to puppy and kitty mills for their puppies and kitties.

I am an investigator for a large humane society. Pet stores WITHOUT EXCEPTION buy their dogs from brokers. The brokers buy their dogs from puppy mills. It's called economies of scale.

would certainly join the protester! 99% of them come from puppymills, and are shipped in trucks to the various stores. Many puppies die in that truck! I commend PetSmart & PetCO for their policy of NOT selling dogs & cats.

to interfere with the store owner's ability to make a living.

You don't like it? Get a law passed to make it illegal.

Redstone

I get it.

You think laws should be changed.

In the meantime, you have no problem with puppies and kitties from Puppy and Kitty mills being trafficked and sold.

Please share your thoughts about those who protest outside of stores that sell clothes made by underaged kids in sweatshops in Latin American and Asia.

Should people NOT protest in front of those stores?

Should they, instead, simply not purchase those clothes, while they work to have the sale of such clothing outlawed (and then enforced)???!!!

You really need to get informed about how these animals are abused their entire lives, and when they can no longer produce, they're killed.

I feel bad you have such an I don't care attitude!

They only need to cross a picket line.

It looks like continued protesting has drove them either to another, less desirable location or out of business entirely. They sell dead tortured animals, not live ones, but your post doesn't make any distinction.

Am I an "asshole" too?

Wouldn't getting a law passed making the business illegal be interfering with the owner's ability to make a living?
Protesting is legal.
Protesting something you find morally repugnant is probably something one ought to do until the law is changed making the activity illegal.
Personally, I applaud those who protest those who would exploit animals for profit. This exploitation is ruthless and immoral. They will sell to practically anyone, no matter how irresponsible. The animals lead a shitty existence till someone (whoever) buys them, and what happens to the ones that get to old to be a cute christmas present for little Shaun? I don't know the answer to that, but my guess is they are either euthanised by the company or handed over to a shelter. Maybe laboratories. I have no idea, but in most cases, it's almost certainly death. In the best cases it's a quick death.
I do not belong to PETA, and I am not a vegetarian, (maybe someday) so I am ripe for any ad hominem attacks.
Albert Schwietzer summed up my feelings on this matter in his essay entitled "A Reverance for Life". It' short and very much worth reading.
All animals, as well as ourselves, are capable of feeling pain, loneliness, and fear. If I were to ever subject ANY creature, man or beast, to any of these feelings so as to make money for myself, I would be repugnant (an asshole) and worthy of anyone protesting my actions.

Is someone you know and love the owner of a pet store? Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic in the least. Your defense of these "businessmen making a living" seems almost personal.

Redstone

Oh come now. "We" all know about you and your Pet Store Agenda !!!!!!

:sarcasm:

thanks for the post.

Redstone

Pet stores in a strip mall are selling product. The animals are products. With very few exceptions these animals come from unscrupulous "dealers". These dealers, breeders, puppymills, whatever they might be called, are in the business of selling a product. They want to "make" their product as cheaply as they can and sell as much of it as they can. If they are not doing this, they are lousy business people or, they are among the few ethical breeders that are out there. Which, by the way, is all the world needs. A FEW ethical breeders. I know a couple who make a living doing other things but breed German Shepherds as a hobby. They breed the dogs only for a specific demand. No demand, no breeding. That and no more. There's hardly a shortage of dogs waiting for adoption or euthanasia. They are also very particular as to who they agree to sell to. Most of their puppies have good homes in store before they are even conceived. You see, they're not in it for the money. This is not how they chose to make their living. They would never consider selling dogs to a store. I know for a fact if they had a puppy and didn't trust the buyer, they'd just keep the dog themselves.

Pet store owners don't buy their product from people like this. People like this don't consider their dogs as product.

I said earlier that all animals, man or beast, feels pain, loneliness, and fear. Loneliness and fear are a given puppys in the animal trade. Pain is just an added bonus for some that are ill-treated, and neglected. And do you think that the average pet store owner gives much consideration as to what kind of home the animal goes to?
Here's where I believe a lot of them go: Two morons, living in south Georgia, who unfortunately managed to breed themselves, want to buy the cute Siberian Husky with the pretty blue eyes, for 2yr. old Tyler. The dumbasses buy the dog despite the fact they live in an apartment, the dog gets rambunctious and a year later they try to give him away to anybody that'll take him, or else the dog winds up at the pound. Or, if they have some land where they live in south Georgia, this Siberian Husky gets chained up in the back yard for the rest of his lonely, miserable life. People who sell dogs to the general public just don't care about this stuff. They want paid for their investment. You pay, you take the dog and do whatever. That's as far as it goes for them.

If some guy chooses to make or supplement, his living buying and selling animals as a product then I say FUCK HIM! There are guidlines for protesting and if it occurrs within the guidelines, then protesting is just as legal as the buying and selling of animals. Period. I hope they do interfere (legally) with this guys business. Enough to make him stop selling animals. I wish we had a world that didn't have animals in a cage, behind a glass wall, in some fucked-up mall pet store. Better that they were never born.

It is unethical for animals to be treated like this and, because it is unethical, it is WRONG.

but I don't like that they still sell small animals. Lots of those birds come from South America and are smuggled into the country, many dying in the process. It's just as bad as puppy mills but fewer people know about it.

I just found this interesting overview of the laws governing pet stores. It's pretty pathetic. For example, only half the states require animals in pet stores to be fed and watered!!!

and I support them, although they do sell pets, but I like not HAVING to support the corporate establishment once in a while.

spayed and neutered.

In my community, most of the pet store protesters are very active in the local spay/neuter movement as well.

Hacking at the roots and the branches of evil, it would seem.

other than fish that is. I think some pet stores here have birds and maybe rabbits. But I haven't seen cats or dogs at pet stores in years, unless they've had an adoption fair through a shelter.

The parrots go insane from being locked in small, empty cages. Then they're sold to people who have no fucking clue how to care for them, and dump them as soon as they won't say "Polly want a cracker" for their friends.

The larger birds are about as intelligent and sensitive as a 3 year old child, and some can live to be over 100 years old. All of them are wild creatures who should not be sold as pets.

My grandma had a friend who wanted help with her computer, and my husband went over to help her, and he said he heard this squawking noise. He said in another room there was this sad bird - a cockateil - in a dirty cage and he said he asked about the bird and the woman said she didn't really want it anymore because it was dirty and made too much noise, so he said instead of paying him he could take the bird instead. Poor thing. He was a very nice bird and was very happy after he had some attention, some freedom, a clean cage, and a window to look out. He only lived a few years after he moved in with us. I don't know if he was old or if he hadn't been fed properly when he lived with this woman and that made him weak, or what.

The little rabbits at pet stores don't look very happy either.

I remember when we were kids there were cats and dogs at a pet store in the mall. They were in little cages and looked pretty sad too. I suppose that's a pretty good selling technique really - I would want to take them all home.

It certainly isn't hard to find a pet if you want one. It isn't like they aren't available without being sold in stores.

I've attended numerous petstore protests, Petland being the most infamous. The pet stores not only enable the abuse of dogs and cats via the purchase of puppies from mills (Google Hunte Corporation and see what you find), but they also stifle adoption from shelters and rescues. 5 million (on the low side) animals euthanized in our nations shelters due to surplus, and these fucks sell puppies. Genius.

Additionally, because of poor breeding practices, MANY people are left heartbroken and financially hurt because of illness (both genetic and contagious) that the animals develop. Try getting a pet store to pay. Some laws say that they can "replace" the pet with a different puppy...at a certain cost of the sick pups life.

Also, if anyone knew the fucking toll that this industry takes on purebreed rescue, one might think again. Where do you think many of these animals wind up when they're 3 years old and dysplastic? Blind? That's right...rescue, because most breeders don't want them and the petstores don't give a shit.

Don't breed or buy while homeless animals die.

boys demanded I get one," bitch about how the teething dog chewed things, and send him to the slaughterhouse (give him away to animal control). And then get another puppy and do the same thing.

Talk about cruelty.

Many of the pet stores in Berkeley post pics of serial animal killers like your sister. She needs to be stopped.

kids survived her mental cruelty. She's a rage-oholic.

But thanks for the idea. I've burned all pics of her.

It sickens me when I see people rushing out to get a "chi-chi" dog because some celebrity has one , or they read how expensive that breed is.. it's a "status" dog.

but deep down, dogs are dogs,..they shit on the floor, they chew up shoes, they shed.. they are dogs..

If you want a pet because you LOVE them, you can love that adorable pound puppy just as much..(probably more) as the $1000 dog..

We raised a litter (9) of purebred labs, and there were people I refused to sell to and we gave one to the Guide-dogs of the Desert..kept 2..and did not even advertise them until they had had ALL their shots, and were 3 months old..
we losty money on the deal (not the reason we did it, BTW) because we had their hips and eyes certified and gave them a long start.. (did not want to get a phone call about how the puppy had parvo & died)

Pet shop pets often have hip dysplasia and eye problems..and some have mental problems from the inbreeding that goes on at puppy mills..

A dog is a dog and demands a good deal of attention. I don't even understand why anyone wants a big dog as a house pet. Medium and small mutts make less of a mess and offer the same companionship.

Good for you on treating your labs with respect.

and she is the best dog I have ever had. Smart and obedient. I never want another mutt.

And no, I didn't buy her from a pet store or a puppy mill. I have a good friend who loves Springers. She is disabled and she decided to get a male and a female and make some money selling the puppies. That's how she paid her rent until her disability checks started. I wanted to help her out and she wouldn't let me give her money. So I bought one of her puppies.

Please? Please???

Please? Please???

it's criminally insane behavior.

I bought my little guy basically to keep him from going insane in a tiny cage with no toys and no sunshine. Pet stores hand these sentient creatures out like goldfish -- unbelievably cruel.

http://www.mickaboo.com/

the store just got another to sell.

I certainly understand why you did it... but as long as people keep buying them, they'll keep getting more.

I do my penance by working with mickaboo (which is not a punishment at all).

Besides, who could resist this:

has rheumatoid arthritis, and she tells me that whenever she feels down, her little bird always picks up her spirits. She plays with him and talks with him all the time. He is a little cutie and has a pretty good vocabulary.

....haven't the first clue how to house, handle and generally treat them.

My parents fell in love with my cockatiel, so he stays with them now (their dog died a few years ago, and he makes a wonderful companion for them--he still recognizes me when I visit). I look forward to taking another one of these brilliant creatures into my life in the next few years.

They need foster parents.

http://www.mickaboo.com

And I'm also about to go abroad for a few years. When I get back, however, I am going to at least check with them. If it's not feasible to adopt one of their birds, I know they can point me to someone in So Cal who does similar work.

if anyone should not have been selling pets, it was Woolworth. A ton of little yellow birds in one cage, each one looking at you like "pick me!" Overcrowding beyond belief.

Here's one of the best.

http://www.omarsexoticbirds.com/

http://feathered-follies.com

They have a combination of rescue and locally bred parrots. My real objection is to the many, many small bird stores that treat sweet little cockatiels and the hyper-intelligent budgies like goldfish.

The real problem with bigger birds is the people who buy them. I'd love to see hookbill owners required to go through an apprenticeship program like they do with falconry. Parrots are waaaay smarter than most raptors, so why isn't any training required to own one?

So beautiful and scary smart. My Blue Crown Conure has a slight edge in cuteness, but he can't hold a candle to my friend's Hahn's in the brains department.

It makes me sad when I see them. The local Petsmart that I shop at, has cats/kittens there. But the area for them is spacious, though not like roaming free in the house spacious. It makes me sad when I see them and I wish I could just take all of them home. :(

I adopted a 9 month old or so cat from the local kill shelter. She was pregnant, and the lady at the shelter told me "she's pretty much guaranteed to be put down." She was so cute and friendly, I took her immediately. 2 weeks later, I had 5 more kittens in the house. I got homes for 4 of them and I kept one (he's my avatar).

I had a neighbor that adopted a pup from a shelter years and years ago. They did not know she was pregnant.. I think this may have been before most shelters had a routine policy of spaying animals before placing them. Anyways, her little pooch had 3 puppies. She had a yard and no other little animal pals, so she kept them. :) It was really cute to see them growing up together.

at Petsmart are probably adoptables from a rescue group. Last I checked, that's all Petsmart does in regards to homing dogs/cats (adoption).

Good for you and your adopted cat(s)...well done.

They're definitely not like the pet stores I saw when I was younger.

I still wish I could take them all home though. x(

http://www.petsmart.com/adoptions/



ETA: Or so they say, though jilln's experience says otherwise.

They have plenty of fish, birds and small mammals for sale. They just don't sell dogs and cats, probably more because doing so would add a lot of additional required manpower and floor space compared to small animals, food and supplies (the legal requirements for doing so in many places are also much more restrictive and inspections more frequent.) Donating space to rescue groups gives them a ton of great PR and brings potential buyers of food, supplies, vet care and training classes into their stores. They probably make more money not selling dogs.

Obviously "pets" includes fish, birds, small mammals, etc. I think the far larger problem is with cats & dogs, so I appreciate PetSmart's policy in that regard (though having assisted some cat & dog rescue myself, I'll admit to having those blinders on).

MacGregor regrets the error.

That makes me feel better.

Selling animals perpetuates the viscious cycle of commerce that ends up with unwanted pets piling up at shelters.

Perhaps they should try to get that law changed first.

We shut down a puppy store here in Tampa via protest. Besides, when a law isn't enforced, what good is it? Most laws in regards to animals are just back-burner shit when violated.

commerce and the owner seeks an injunction...

But sure, they can run this poor guy out of business for doing nothing illegal.

As far as illegal goes, you'd like to see Bush, et al run out, yet he's been convicted of nothing. It's immoral and unethical.

Poor guy...fuck him. Making a buck off the backs of abused animals. Boo fucking hoo for him.

The dogs won't be going anywhere unless prospective adopters can see them up-close and in person.

People who want to give a loving home to a dog have an almost unlimited supply available. There is no shortage of dogs needing good homes.
The pet stores buy from "manufacturers" who are often unscrupulous. To them, the dogs are a product, nothing more and nothing less.

Missouri has the highest number of puppy mills in the country. The millers have the governor in their pocket - hell, he's given state money to Hunte Corporation - and the chances of 'changing the laws' are exactly nil in the biggest milling state around. Educating consumers is about the only route left in Missouri.

I foster puppy mill rescues - the breeding stock they use to produce the thousands of puppies they sell to pet stores. Two of my mill rescues that I've adopted are almost crippled from constant confinement in a small wire cage for their entire lives. They have frequent and painful muscle cramps and digestive problems. Both are toothless because they tried to chew their way out of these wire cages. They both have serious health problems, particularly with their eyes. But that doesn't even begin to account for the psychological issues these dogs have - they live in terror of human touch, have serious trust issues, are almost feral in many ways.

I try my best to socialize the puppy mill fosters I take in to prepare them for adoption. It's not easy but it's worth it when you see them play with their first toy, or romp in the yard, or finally come and sit in your lap.

Before anyone bitches about 'those assholes' that tried to stop this pet store owner from buying from puppy mills, please think about how those dogs were bred and at what cost to the breeding animals.

Here are my rescue boys:

Dodger Dog:


Guido:


Luigi:

I wish I had the space to take in more animals.

I congratulate you on saving those animals.

So a little education is a good thing.

http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Murphy, one of my Golden Retrievers, came from a pet store. The first problem we encountered was Juvenile Cellulitis (commonly called Puppy Strangle). I noticed some lumps in his throat a week or so after we brought him home. Seems Puppy Strangle is a disease of the immune system and is genetic. The lympth nodes become enlarged (if not caught in time the nodes become so large they strangle the puppy) and sores cluster around the eyes. He still has a few scars under his eyes. He was treated and survived. I was told I could not take him out in public or even to the vet's office for several weeks as he would not be able to fight off infection. Well, we defeated that one then when he was about seven months old, I noticed that when he ran his back legs did not look right. It appeared as though his legs were hopping like a rabbit. Back to the vet. After some x-rays and consultation with a canine orthopedic specialist he was diagnosed with severe hip dysplasia. As he was so young it was hoped that they could do a TPO (Triple Pelvic Osteotomy). No such luck -- the ball socket was too damaged. He will have to be on Cosequin for the rest of his life and I was told not to over-exercise him. It is possible that he will have to have a total hip replacement someday. So far, we have been lucky and he is doing OK. I am going to take him in for x-rays next month. He will turn five on Dec 21. He came from a so-called breeder in Missouri and has an impressive pedigree (which I now question). I have come to learn that Missouri is the leading state for puppy mills. Both of his problems are legacy diseases (genetic). Under no circumstance would we have ever been able to breed Murphy. The best part of the story though is that Murphy is my friend for life and although I would never recommend anyone buying from a pet store, if I had not walked out of that store with Murphy I would have missed out on the love of my life.

Our other Golden, Devon, we bought from a reputable breeder and she is just fine. We have never had any health problems with her. She will be five in April.

She was almost 5 years old - same exact story except I did not get her from a store. Hip dysplasia = severe; dog had 5 infections and 3 different types of parasites when I got her. She was scared to death and you could not touch her. She did not know how to play and had never been in a yard. The older these types of dogs get, the worse the symptoms become as there are likely several congenital defects that you aren't aware of yet. It will eventually catch up with the dog and they do not live a normal life span because of the inbreeding and greed. :(

I got her from what is known as a "backyard breeder" which is not too much different than a puppy mill. :mad: and I :cry: still too. It has broken my heart and I don't ever want another dog ever after this awful experience.

don't deprive yourself of the love of a dog. It sounds as though you gave your dog the only happiness she had known. I could not live a day without dogs in the house. I am greeted with enthusiasm, love and goofiness every evening. I have always had dogs and my heart has been broken too many times but life just would not be much fun if I didn't have Murphy and Devon. How many times has my heart been broken, well, there was Katie (German Shepherd); Amber (mixed breed-Yellow Lab/Red Australian Heeler); Sam (Cocker Spaniel) and Jake (Golden Retriever). Losing them was painful but my legacy to them was finding and loving another dog(s).

Adopt a mutt, no funky blood lines. Plus you'll be saving a life.

I had an English Sheepdog a thousand years ago, my Oliver, with hip dysplasia and the breeder had to pay for the surgery to make him more comfortable. I wish they would shut down backyard breeders because the incestuous blood lines produce some sad stories.

There's another dog out there with your name on it.

She has been sick ever since I got her too - from the local shelter. All of my other cats are sick now too from this virus that the kitten has/had.

I don't want another dog.

I've been scarred for life on this.

I'll never get over it, that is how bad it was.

It sickens me that they cannot seem to get laws passed to make animal cruelty a for real crime. It gives me less faith in humankind the longer this goes on.

How can people be like this? I know a man that told me his best friend's wife got into this and became a very dark person. His friend could no longer stand to be around her so he packed his bags and left this dark evil woman. I cannot blame him one bit.

These people doing this are sick people filled with evil and greed. One out of every four dogs today now suffers some sort of a congenital defect thanks to these "puppy mills". It effects everyone whether they know it or not. Hence, the entire population of dogs has been and will continue to be contaminated with these genes, even if they are "muts".

What can we do? Seems like nothing to me as no one seems to care about this. For these reasons, I do not want another dog; another heartbreak I should say.

sound like they have tracheobronchitis, commonly called "kennel cough," and it is contagious. They might need antibiotics.

If you are inclined, you might be interested in visiting your local shelter and maybe doing some volunteer work if you have the time. I think it might help you process the pain you are still reliving and maybe find some closure. Who knows, maybe you'll even find a dog that was meant to be yours.

The kitten had a stomach infection and was on antibiotics. However, the virus is some sort of mutating one and the shelter told me that it has to just burn itself out.

My two older cats are about 80-90% better now (it has been 3 weeks) and the kitten still sneezes once in awhile but she has gained a lot of weight, seems active and normal otherwise.

I think the worst part is over but it is sure a nightmare as it is not something that will go away quickly I was told (could go on for months I was told which I now know to be the case).

Let's just hope they all get to the 100% healthy stage soon. :) Thanks for your reply.

As for volunteering, I am thinking about this but not certain where I want to volunteer at. I prefer the no-kill shelter which is about 50 miles south of where I live so I don't know.

from my dog - Seven - and cats - Layla (not in picture) and Renfield.
Best of luck and I'm hoping one day a dog will land on your doorstep for you to love again.

God, there are some ignorant people on this thread; some surprises, some not. Puppy mills are living hells for the dogs, as the pictures on this thread so clearly illustrate. You can't deny it anymore. There is no socialization, no medical care, no exercise, they do not wait until six weeks to remove puppies from their mothers, they are all crammed together in "money-saving" cages with multiple dogs/puppies in each cage. Many times, dogs will kill each other in the cages for lack of space, food, etc. They are in-bred, and mother dogs are forced to have litter after litter of puppies their whole lives, then killed. It is a life of torment, all of it spent in a small cage, ignored. Get puppies and dogs from shelters or real breeders. Pet stores have no standards against cruelty at all, and are constantly being raided by Humane Law Enforcement for cruel treatment of animals. Pet stores should sell supplies, not lives.

Well said, and I agree 100%. Including the part about "some surprises, some not".
I'm not new here. I was more active in 2000 but I have been a frequent lurker for the past 5 or so years. Some of the attitudes expressed in this thread surprised me as well.

The names of the breeders and the attached vet were included on a card at every cage. So not all pet stores are a house of horrors. (However, the puppy mill people everywhere should be sent to jail.)

Not that I'm doubting you, but pet stores and breeders manage to create documentation that makes the animal look well cared for and well bred when it is not. The registries cooperate so they can get paid to issue the dog's papers. Nobody tells their customers that the dog they want more money for than I paid for my first car was bred in a cage, exposed to weather, has parasites and a family history of hip dysplasia and blindness. Their job is to sell you a dog, so they talk up that dog's breeding and previous care.

There are several dog breeders on DU. Ask any one of them if they would ever sell a dog to a pet store.

I've been in one. They invite propective owners to go visit the breeders to see the conditions the dogs were raised in.

With no notice, no appointment.

Yes, there ARE stores like that, much as you'd like to try to deny it.

PS: As a vegan, do you advocate that people picket, say, Sal's Butcher Shop down the street and keep HIM from making a living, too?

Redstone

Because it is. Ask any of the breeders here if they sell to pet shops, or if anybody they think well of does.

I'm really not in the mood to take this thread off topic, I'm on my way out the door to work. If you want to talk tactics for taking on the meat industry, I can do so tomorrow (and let's do it as a separate thread) or if flvegan is interested just assume I agree with whatever he comes up with, we very rarely diverge on these issues anyhow.

And a long background check of the adopters.

:thumbsup:

:evilgrin:

:P

:hug:

:applause:

As were his completely uncalled for attacks on flvegan. Funny how he feels the victim.

when it comes to regulations. I haven't found a comfortable position on this issue.

I know that I think pet stores should sell supplies, equipment, etc. to go with pets, not the pets themselves. At least, not dogs and cats. There are too many dogs and cats without homes.

Want a purebred? Reputable breeders are better sources than pet stores; you'll know more about them. Too many pet stores get stock from puppy mills.

Perhaps pet stores should keep a list of local and regional breeders, with contact info. A local shelter's inventory would be good, too. Breeders supply the animal, store supplies the rest. Or a transparent, documented, verifiable history of the breeder available with every animal sold.

Redstone

like hamsters and stuff. They have an adoption thing for dogs and cats. They also have a clinic in the back where they nurse animals back to health, I realize they are a big corporate store but the lady who runs the one I go to is pretty cool and seems to really care about the animals. Not sure if they are all like this but I've never had anything but good luck with them.

because it wil make me look on that chain MUCH more favorably.

Redstone

That's where I shop, when I need pet supplies. I don't need to do research to find one, and I'm not sure what the point would be. I'm pondering how much regulation of the "pet industry" is enough, and how much is too much; I'm not looking for a place to buy a pet. I don't think I suggested that I was.

While I've had dogs and cats my whole life, it's been more than 20 years since I actually went looking for one. They seem to find me. I've never actually purchased a dog or cat, although I have paid adoption fees a couple of times.

The good stores should be glad to help you adopt a homeless animal.

Then they can rake in the profits from selling pet food, kitty litter, toys, grooming supplies, cute outfits for the dogs, etc. Sound business practice & good for the animals!

(Although I'm not sure about the cute outfits. I'm a cat owner--& cats don't like to dress up.)

People shouldn't buy pets from a pet store. There are plenty of shelters with pets of all ages available.