Pelosi and Conyers-- Smarter than Impeachment-

December 25, 2006

Pelosi and Conyers-- Smarter than Impeachment-

By Rob Kall

A lot of people are angry with Nancy Pelosi and John Conyers because they say impeachment is not on the table. I say "thank goodness."

You see, I'm in a hurry. I want to see the big cleanup in Washington happen much faster-- including showing Cheney and Bush the door, and maybe, the prison yard. Pelosi and Conyers are doing things exactly right and they have a better chance of my goal-- removal of Bush and Cheney from office-- than if they were going the impeachment route.

Pelosi has already stated that it is her constitutional responsibility to investigate. I am certain that within days of the opening of the new congress, Conyers, Waxman and others will begin holding hearings. They will begin investigating some of the most obvious problems and questions and they will happily go where those investigations lead them.

They will be using prosecutors on their investigative teams. One of the most effective ways prosecutors work is to interrogate and "nail" smaller, lower level perpetrators who then "roll over" to inform on higher ups. This is what will be happening all over Washington.

The sweet thing about congressional hearings is that there are no lawyer-client confidentiality priveleges. Yep. The lawyers have to squeal like stuck pigs or face contempt of congress charges-- which they are not very likely to do.

The rolling over will quickly reach the upper echelons of power. The evidence and testimony will build. First, Cheney will be in the targets. Like Spiro Agnew, Nixon's vice president, Cheney will resign rather than face serious prison charges.

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/print_friendly.php?p=opedne_rob_kall_061225_pelosi_and_conyers__.htm

....the thing about investigations is that they take forever and a day and in the end....not much happens...we've seen that again and again in the last 6 years. nd I dunno if it would be different with this one....

We don't have much time to spend on investigations. If Pelosi and Reid spend the next two years on nothing but investigations that go in circles, they will be derided as ineffective and weak.

The ultimate goal, other than bringing Bush and Cheney to justice, is to secure Democratic control of the House of Representatives for the next 40 years. We have to do this smart.

As far as I'm concered, impeachment isn't an option. It's an imperative.

And it's also a step towards locking up the Oaf of Office at Florence ADX for the rest of his miserable life.

not a criminal proceeding.

The gravest injustice done by the neocons is their assault on the truth. Undoing this assault on the truth will be neither ineffective nor weak if done properly. Undoing this assault on the truth is the first step toward repairing the tremendous, unfathomable damage caused by the neocons and their disinformation campaigns.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

Nobody's saying that we can't pursue criminal charges against him. But to distract ourselves with defusing an "assault on the truth" is to expend energy on something that's going to come about anyway without any extra help from us - now that Democrats are going to be in charge of Congress.

I want George W. Bush humiliated. I do not want his library to ever see the light of day. I want him to be despised as a tyrant and a imbecile now, not a hundred years from now.

We know the pResident has read one book:

I think you can see where the progression takes us from there.

To kill the Hydra, you can't cut off the heads, because they just grow back - you have to drive the sword right into the beast's heart.

and it probably won't come to that. They'll resign if they know that impeachment would pass.

That's how we got rid of Nixon.

....first mistake I've made in the last hour...just give me another hour and I'll make a few more.... :)

Just providing additional pov's. :hi:

compiling evidence and preparing for their chance to have subpoena pwoer for a long time. I am planning to spend a lot of time in the coming new year glued to c-span and justice sure will be sweet.

Let the investigations finally begin without obstruction and oversight re-installed!! yes in deed!!

One real problem with a presidential pardon, from Cheney's and the Republican Party's points of view, is that once given it signals the end of 5th amendment protection from self incrimination. In other words if he's get left off the prison hook he opens up the prison hook for everyone else both above and below him - including George himself.

:shrug:

http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A2Sec2.html

U.S. Constitution - Article 2 Section 2
Article 2 - The Executive Branch
Section 2 - Civilian Power Over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

'Except in cases of Impeachment.'
The founding fathers knew what they were doing when they wrote that little line!

Impeachment is excepted from Presidential pardons and it's the SOLE means whereby presidential pardons of cronies and co-conspirators might be prevented. Thus, the failure to impeach Cheney/Bush ALSO precludes war crimes prosecutions.

We are an outlaw nation, without honor, unless and until the war crimes and crimes against peace of this regime are prosecuted and punished. In signaling the absence of any intention to pursue impeachment, our 'political elite' have sacrificed our honor for the sake of privileged expediency. In my view, very little is more indicative of the abysmal corruption in our political and economic systems than this.

I wanted to have some encouragement after the Nov. win, but when I saw Pelosi on TV taking her "pledge" not to impeach, ... well, I lost hope, and partly because of what you have just posted here.

I don't get it.

I just don't get it.

I'm tired.

Evidence uncovered during investigations will prompt the public to call for impeachment and trials. That's where the impetus should come from; because if it comes from an opposition party, it's automatically suspect.

What she said was unnecessary and unwise.

There are many more ways a politician can express herself in a matter like this.

Take a "pledge" that impeachment is off the table was just.....dumb.

If the public outcry is as severe as I'm envisioning, putting impeachment back on the table would simply be listening to the will of her constituents.

I don't think she would refuse to impeach because of any pledge made with evidence in hand at the time. More evidence, new decision.

If she went in saying she wanted to impeach, she'd give the impression that it's a partisan witch hunt. There goes half the potential public support.

A much smarter move would be to act in a spirit of bipartisanship, but let the investigations lead where they will. Show the public what these cretins are like. Then when they can't take it anymore... acquiesce to their will. Then the proceedings provide a vent for the growing anger.

Remember, most people aren't aware of all the Machiavellian machinations as are you and I. They need to be shown why this bunch has to go; then it will happen, as day follows night.

It will be as if the people as one stormed the White House and tossed its occupants over the gate.

and yelling and screaming for impeachment.

There is such a thing as smart language.

What she said was dumb.

Who said anything about that?

I'm only saying that an apparently partisan-driven impeachment will create resistance. An evidence-driven impeachment avoids that. It's like walking around a wall instead of knocking it down.

Also, taking impeachment off the table for now is a strategic move in a couple of ways.
If pelosi had called for impeachment the right would demand to now on what charges.They would then know what counter-spin route to take to counter it amongst the kool-aid drinkers.
By tableing it for now,Pelosi also takes away their ability to respond without making themselves look guilty of something.A case of 'why all the denial if there is not a problem',so to speak.
Also,by not focusing on a specific crime committed by bushco,it leaves the option of being able to choose the crime that resonates with the public the most.There are so many offenses to choose from that there is no telling which will be the straw that breaks the camels back with the public at this time.
Holding our cards close could also leave bushco spread to thin to adequately cover all the angles of attack coming at him.This creates the oppurtunity for mistakes on bushco's part.
If the U.S. is to ever be free of the bush crime syndicate then they must be exposed completely by the many investigative committees we will be conveneing come January.It will take more than one "apparently partisan-driven impeachment' hearing to drive them from power.Only full and complete disclosure will generate the outrage needed.

I'd sure understand these things better if I knew what would happen in the future. (I'd probably do pretty good in the lottery, too.)

you don't know them. We know that serious crimes have been committed. The right people are on the job. I'm just doing the math.

:eyes:



:rofl:

:rofl:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2666178
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2984966

Without honor, without duty, without courage, and without principle, the consequentialist weaves conveniently narrow and contemporaneously unprovable futures to rationalize acts that have no other moral justification.

:shrug: Rock on. Argue the angel seating capacity of the pin-pf-the-day. Enjoy.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/CorpGovActivist
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/IdesOfOctober

Read these guys journals for a glimpse of what the future holds for bushco.

And this is only one angle of attack.

And this paragraph in particular:

Getting the necessary two-thirds supermajority in support of impeachment in today's Senate, which is virtually evenly-divided politically, is simply not possible. With forty-nine senators of the 110th Congress members in good standing with the Republican Party, and most of them rock-ribbed conservatives, even if the House produced evidence of Cheney personally water-boarding "Gitmo" detainees in the basement of his home at the Naval Observatory, with Bush looking on approvingly, there are more than thirty-three GOP Senators who still would not vote to convict. (Senate Republicans who have no problem with torture, or with removing the right to habeas corpus, and who refused to exercise any oversight whatsoever of Bush or Cheney, are hardly going to remove these men for actions in which they too are complicit.)

Find Law

We're dealing with a body of pure evil. Do we really think these Repub Senators are going to do the right thing? If they are comfortable with establishing torture as national policy and suspending habeas corpus, in essence denying due process, do we really think they would vote to remove Bush and Cheney based on ethics and morality?

Of course, "impeachment" is one thing, removal from office quite another. I don't know when I read "impeachment" threads on DU if we are discussing impeachment only or impeachment and removal from office.

I say investigate and incarcerate!!!

I'm all for that. Let's see the plan.

out of office, INDICT them.. no pardon power once he leaves office.. I say hand out indictments like halloween candy and tie them up in court until the cows come home or cheney's robotic heart implodes.

And..not just the ones at the top of the pyramid.. ALL of them.. Only this time DON'T WEASEL OUT.

NONE of this gang would even be where they are if the Iran Contra hearing had not rolled over and played dead. there's no excuse. We HAD the majority (by a hefty margin), and yet we let them off the hook, and they all regouped and descended on us in '00...like locusts.


AND DO RELEASE ALL THE PRESIDENTIAL PAPERS WE SHOULD HAVE SEEN BY NOW..
(even though they have had years to carefully "sanitize" them, there's still stuff in there we NEED to know.

One hand washes the other in politics. This would not surprise me at the least. Frankly, I see the entire mess as one big lesson in correctness! Let's hand out those indictments to corrupt Repubs and Dems alike. I know it's a lot to ask, but let's clean up the whole thing while we got the chance.

But unfortunately, until we have total public financing and or term limits, we will have corruption.:(

Sad, for me to see some of this from Dems. In all elese, FIGHT THOSE REPUGS!

The Dems and Repubs will dicede this in one voice.
It would expose all the coruption that has been going in sinc with the Irac war.
It would bring about true decent within the Suprime Court, thusly displaying it's injustice.
World opinion would gather around, waiting for their say.
Those killed or wonded in Iraq woukld finally have some sort of say.

There is no stay the coruse, there is no chage the course. All i can say to my Arab friends is I'm sorry. Forgive me for I could not stop the Bush's, but I tried. We cut back on oil consuption as far as possible.

all find options with me, and all are on the table as far as I'm concerned..

The AG must be Impeached, then fired by the Senate.

so the dems in congress look reasonable by comparison and so they know they have our support for nailing these bastards.

Thanks for nothin' that is.

criminal charges, they'll stay in office. The only way to get this pair out is a bill of impeachment and a trial in the Senate.

and R!
:hi: