People who say "we dont want impeachment" arent thinking it through

The majority of Americans, when faced with an impeachment, will believe that Bush is guilty of whatever he is impeached for. Sure, the RW will justify it, minimize it, spin it, and otherwise try to turn it into an attack on the Dems. But we don't care what the RW thinks anyway, only what the people think. Bush supporters are turning against Bush, this is a fact. Rovian Agents or no, Bush's impeachment will harm him, harm Cheney, and harm the GOP. Democrats will be able to counter any spin with "Bush committed crimes and was impeached bipartisanly."

The quick result of impeachment will be big wins in 06, even if the impeachment takes longer. By 08, the impeachment will be complete, whoever will be President (Cheney, whoever), and the Dems running in 08 have DeLay, Chertoff, "The Duke" and the big fish, Bush, to simply HAMMER home the "Culture of Corruption" of the GOP. "GOP=Culture of Corruption" over and over and over and over. Any time anyone is asked a question about any topic, the reply will be "The culture of corruption of the Republican party has made a mockery of America, but I will..." and then answer the question. It will be merciless. People will be more familiar with the phrase "Culture of Corruption" than "Where's the beef?" or "Can you hear me now?"

Each passing day, the American people will grow angrier and angrier, and the vote in 08 will be much like the one in 06. Cheney as President is a non-issue. He doesnt want to run and basically cant run himself, so any de-facto "incumbency" will not be an issue. It will still be two challengers, on their "own" merrits, in 08. Except the Republican has a new label - "Culture of Corruption". They will be tied to Abramoff, DeLay, Frist, Bush or anyone else we find to tie them to, and they will sink, in the ultimate "Swiftboating". The only way for the Dems to mess up 06 and 08 is to appear weak, be weak, and act weak. Period.

NGU.

since it is a legal event

If we try impeachment now, imagine John Conyers and a bunch of great folks holding hearings in a basement room to an audience of people who already agree with him. That's all that'll happen.

If the GOP still controls the election equipment - the people will have forgiven all of the Rethug law-breaking - after all, they are still the party of "family values" --

The elections will be stolen AGAIN!

Dean *must* immediately publish a "50-State Plan for Free & Fair Elections" -- he has a 50-state plan to identify and support candidates, those candidates will *not* be elected if the GOP controls the voting machines.

If we try impeachment now, it will not happen. Period. I want the bastards impeached and it's precisely because I want them impeached that I don't want us to try it when there's no hope in hell it'll happen.

See my point?

If repubs win in 06, it will energize Bush and the GOP, and impeachment will then seem like revenge.
No, you have to start impeachment PRIOR to the results in 06. That way, any Senators that support Bush can get HAMMERED during their local elections by their Dem opponents for supporting Bush.

Follow me ?

1) We try impeachment now.

2) Repugs yawn and vote it down.

3) End of impeachment.

If they win in 2006, we can try tilting at the windmill then. There's no point trying to have hearings if we can't subpena witnesses and put them under oath.

Any repub in office now HAS to vote for impeachment or instantly lose in 06. Period.

Its a win-win for Dems.
Either we impeach and take the house and senate in 06,
or
we fail to impeach and massively take the house and senate in 06 and then re-impeach.

1) We try impeachment now

2) Some Repugs support it BUT

3) it still gets voted down


and we hit them over the head with it every chance we get. What are we sending these people to D.C. for in the first place, we will ask? The President ADMITS in public that he has broken the law and violated the Constitution and Congress just nods and moves on. What are we paying these guys for?

And how many Repugs have to be wondering, right now, if THEY were being spied on by BushCo?

I think we should push for a bill of impeachment to be proposed and dare the GOPukes to fight it.

And while we're at it, everytime a talking head argues with us, let them have it. Put them on the spot. Ask Tweety if its okay to spy on anyone you want, including reporters? Ask the TimesMen why they sat on this story for over a year when they knew if was an ongoing crime.

If the media thinks the blood is in the water Olberman will not be the only one using the I word on a regular baSis.

Chimp is a lame duck regardless, while the investigation proceeds at an excruciatingly slow pace.

Bake

We don't control anything. Not the House. Not the Senate. Not a single committee. We can't even get a vote on something if the repub leadership doesn't allow it. So we can stand in a room and scream "impeach" starting on January 1 and yell it until election day 2006 and not a damn thing will happen. Other than the repubs will turn around and hammer us in 2006 with the argument that we don't have any ideas for running the country since all we do is yell "impeach." The electorate doesn't give a damn about impeachment. They want a government that, when a flood hits, knows what the fuck its doing. They want a government that realizes that despite "good economic indicators", wages have stagnated for the past 5 years. They want a government that seems to have a clue as to what they're doing in Iraq.

Impeachment talk doesn't get us anywhere at this point. I thought it was telling in another thread that a poster noted that "It is quite apparent, at least to people here at DU, that Bush, Cheney, and various others have broken the laws of this nation." Bingo. While it may be apparent to people here at DU (or at least to a substantial majority at DU since some folks have expressed reservations about the legal issues), it is hardly apparent to joe or jill sixpack. Until there is some indication that the public gives a damn, impeachment talk is going to be viewed by many voters as more of the same old same old.

onenote

Both need to go.