New postal law lets bush READ YOUR MAIL.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/485561p-408789c.html




President Bush added a "signing statement" in recently passed postal reform bill that may give him new powers to pry into your mail - without a warrant.

WASHINGTON - President Bush has quietly claimed sweeping new powers to open Americans' mail without a judge's warrant, the Daily News has learned.
The President asserted his new authority when he signed a postal reform bill into law on Dec. 20. Bush then issued a "signing statement" that declared his right to open people's mail under emergency conditions.

That claim is contrary to existing law and contradicted the bill he had just signed, say experts who have reviewed it.

Bush's move came during the winter congressional recess and a year after his secret domestic electronic eavesdropping program was first revealed. It caught Capitol Hill by surprise.

convicted of his crimes and sent to prison or put in a mental hospital, i dont care i want him out

cant he get a warrent like everybody else.. FICA, he's just a snoopy paranoid peravert

or do you hate freedom?

No doubt reading our mail without a warrant is outrageous.

But it scares me a lot less then the IRS and what they know about us.

I never understand how it's scary that calling Yemen and discussing bombmaking and our mail need to be protected from warrantless searches, but the IRS can investigate every aspect of what we make, who we work for, what investments we have, who we give money to and so forth.

I'm coinsistent, I want to end it all. It's the selective fear of government I don't understand. I'm afraid of it's invasion of my privacy all the time.

Didn't you hear about the warrantless wiretapping?

The NSA was using computer programs in calls to "terrorist" countries and looking for keywords, like "bomb." It only came to attention of a person when the programs matched.

Our Democratic politicians are concerned about that, but I hear nothing of the far, far more intrusive IRS. I don't understand the sense of perspective that we are afraid of being flagged for calling Yemen and having our mail opened in an "emergency" and no word at all about the IRS checking almost every detail of our lives to be sure we are "paying our taxes."

That's why I called it "just curious."

Again I'm consistent, I want to force warrants for mail and phone, that's why we have special courts, but I also want the IRS eliminated for a sales tax where merchants simply collect taxes and the government is far less intrusive to our privacy.

Not to derail the thread or anything, but a national sales tax would be abominably regressive.

The more you can afford to save or re-invest, the less tax you pay.

People at the bottom end of the spectrum are spending more than they are earning (going into debt to do so) and would get CRUSHED by a sales tax.

Is CompassionateLib short for "CompassionateLibertarianWhackjob", by any chance? ;)

Thank you for pointing out why the Democratic party is having such a hard time beating a party led by the pathetic George W Bush as it took six horrible years of Republican administration to eke out a small majority in Congress. I disagree on you on ONE issue. One. And you are both insulting me "Wack job" and saying I'm not a Democrat. For disagreeing with you on ONE ISSUE! I'm not going to rattle off all the things I agree with Democrats and oppose Libertarians on, but if you search on my posts you will see them.

Because I vote for Democrats whom I generally agree with on does not mean I take direction from them. I study issues and support what's right and the Democratic party while being right on many issues is generally wrong on economics. You are under the misbelief that corporations pay taxes. They do not, they collect them. When you buy a car, you understand the cost of steel, glass, etc is included in the price of the car. What Democrats do not generally understand is that sales taxes are also included in the car. Not only the taxes of the car maker, but the suppliers are wrapped up in them as well.

So a few things to consider.

- The current corporate tax is not progressive or regressive because both when the poor and rich pay taxes they are paying them at the same rate for everything they buy. The rich buy more and pay more dollars, but at the same rate.

- Proposals for the sales tax like the fair tax actually rebate the taxes for basic living. So under your current system the poor pay the corporate taxes for everything they buy. Under the fair tax they will pay no corporate or personal taxes except on the money above the poverty line.

- Since corporate taxes are paid by US companies only, sales taxes would shift a large part of our tax burden to foreign companies increasing jobs, including for those who need them most.

- The burden of paying taxes on our economy (tax forms, lawyers, CPAs, decicions made for tax not economic reasons) in heavy on our economy and doing away with that complexity would remove tremendous dead weigh from our economy.

- If you study our current tax code, there is nothing "fair" about it. It is random and arbitrary and created by politicians of every party for campaign money and politican influence. It is irrational. That is what you are protecting, not some "fair" system.

Frankly if you can't respond without insults, that's fine, it doesn't bother me. But you may want to consider what I'm saying because I know what I'm talking about both from my education and work experience.

It's good enough for me that the misanthropic, miserly, greedy, stingy, reactionary, mean-spirited, hate-filled gasbag Neal Boortz is pushing the "fair tax" like there's no tomorrow. That is a more than adequate red flag. If Neal Boortz wants it so bad you can be sure there is some kind of benefit for people of his ilk: wealthy, private-plane-owning, contemptuous of "welfare" and even of "government schools," and sneering, disdainful, and dismissive of the entire concept of "the public good"--and no benefit whatsoever for the working stiffs. A much higher percentage of their income will go to taxes while people like that gluttonous pig will simply have far more of their greasy dollars to donate to their favorite charities: themselves. Meanwhile, watch all public services grind to a halt.

And who is going to administer this simple-minded piece of crap? What bureaucracy and bookkeeping will be needed to issue the "monthly rebates" that these whackos talk about?

I like to debate and don't take it personally, you should try it. I learn a lot, it's rewarding.

On the fair tax, I discussed that right above this post, so I won't repeat it you can look there. You did ask a good question on administering the monthly rebates.

The Boortz Fair tax does require someone to administer monthly rebates. Personally I would prefer a system that had no automatic rebates and the poor would get them as part of a welfare package, but ironically I think Boortz proposes that because of Democrats who say the poor would pay taxes without it.

OK, so under Boortz though you have an agency tracking social security numbers and sending rebates. That is far simpler than an IRS which tracks, checks up on and audits every financial transaction in this country and every year processes a tax form.

And from a privacy comparison there is none. Knowing our existance is far different then knowing every dollar we earn, invest, spend and give away.

fro 'profit'.. they get to keep a percentage.. so expect the worse

I never thought of it like that before. It's been that way for a while now. :(

I'm not taking a position on collections, but you said corporations get to "audit" the poor and middle class, which would mean they have access to all their detailed data in their returns.

My understanding is they are only collecting balances, which would mean they know what's owed but nothing of the details. They wouldn't even know what they actually paid since owing is only a net amount.

I can't say I know 100%, but I"m pretty sure, do you have any data to the contrary? Auditing and collecting net balances are completely different things.

Everybody knows bush can't read. He may, however, peruse your catalogs and look at the pictures :)

white house.

(wait a minute! that asshole can read? since when?)

I LOVE that idea!

We should try to get it organized. Let's bury the White House in junk mail!

It obviously won't hold water in court.
We should not allow this latest poo fling to distract us from the task of ending the war.

I get in the mail. :evilgrin:

Let's see, there is a sale at Macy's, The National Arbor Day Foundation sent return address labels, The ACLU, Amnesty International, Doctors Without Borders and several other groups have asked again for a extra contribution. The local Junior College District has sent there Spring continuing education schedule, the grocery store ads arrived (btw Pizza Rolls are 10/$10.00 this week). Best Buy has some extra savings this coming weeken (I can forward the coupons if he would like). Newsweek arrived (the editorial cartoons are pretty good). The mail ususally arrives around 3pm so I will have to wait for today's for an update.

For further reading:

a Kos diary:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/1/4/1359/70219

Bush claims right to open mail without a warrant

So, let's review .... our phone calls are monitored, our bank records are available, our mail is to be opened, our library preferences are the FBI's business. What's left?

The signing statement:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/12/20061220-6.html

The executive branch shall construe subsection 404(c) of title 39, as enacted by subsection 1010(e) of the Act, which provides for opening of an item of a class of mail otherwise sealed against inspection, in a manner consistent, to the maximum extent permissible, with the need to conduct searches in exigent circumstances, such as to protect human life and safety against hazardous materials, and the need for physical searches specifically authorized by law for foreign intelligence collection

he didn't write that shit. It is pure bureaucratese, and he doesn't speak it that well. So who is the person actually writing these signing statements for him?

I'm not gonna name names... but I think his name rhymes with "Karl Rove"

Cause I'd have bet it rhymed with Prick Schmeney, or Schmalberto Schmonzalez.

Rove is just a political hack. THOSE guys are the true fascists.

In English, they all translate the same: "This law is null and void at the president's whim".

NT

Is he going to pay my bills that he reads?

He's welcome to pay my utility bills! :evilgrin:

mail is just bullshit and not to be taken lightly!

contradict legislation passed by Congress, or that expand executive privilege under said legislation . . .

which means that if Bush tries it, he's breaking the law . . . nothing new for him, to be sure . . .

Everybody knows the Chimperor can't read.

in my view, is that he has been reading our mail all along and this law doesn't change a thing.

I really don't get that much interesting mail. Not that I want the government reading it, but at this point, I'm not getting anything that I would hide from them, either.

Give me air! :eyes:

Capitol Hill KNOWS what he has been doing because he has been doing it for the last 6 years and he is going to keep doing crap like this until someone stops him. Isn't this what his signing statments are designed for? To circumvent the law?

He has discovered that he can use signing statements to get what he wants, regardless of the "law" and that he can do this with impunity because no one pays attention, and he is right. Until someone stops him, he is going to keep deconstructing the Constitution until we have no more rights. None.

I think a tip of the ol' Totalitarian hat should go to his gargoyle, Gonzales.

Mother Jones,too.I wish he would read my mail.Maybe he'd wake up and smell the truthiness.

And no laws for King George.

The Decider.

The Dictator.

Simple.

Just like the King.

and Bush simply signs a big Fuck You! to Americans. Bastard.

Or will we need to charge them as accomplices to the Traitor-In-Chief for doing nothing as the Junta usurps Congress' Constitutional authority to make law?

Quit patting yourself on the back and get to work, already! We need you to help bring this fool down a few notches!

Do we have enough evidence, cataloged, sorted, and ready for impeachment hearings, to shame most Repugs from defending this jackass? If so, go for it.

How'dya like them apples, bitch! Impeach and drag this peice of shit to the Hague

the toilet paper supplied to the WH these days is special ordered and is imprinted with The Constitution. That is how little regard this criminal regime has for the basic principles and framework on which this nation was founded.

and the fact that the government couldn't read our mail was commonly used as proof that we were better.

During the cold war I remember that we were accusing the USSR communists of doing the same things that we are doing now. And we were saying how bad they were and we do not want to be like them.

About damn time, I say.

This isn't a joke, and you all know it. That asshole is not going to pay your fucking bills, but he is going to blatantly violate the Constitution when he sees fit. It doesn't matter that nobody ever gets "interesting mail"; it matters that the 4th Amendment protects us against this and he's shitting all over that.

Y'know what? I'm gonna send a letter to one of my friends bitching about the "surge" and how Bush is a war criminal. I hope he reads it. I wrote a letter directly to the president some months ago, but that didn't get his attention. Maybe this will work better.

maybe he will sift thru the mail for medical letters which are covered by HIPPA legislation?

Hey Rangel just kicked the Vice President out of his office, doesn't that make him an enemy to Bush?

It is not our mail that Bush wants to open. He has his eye on all and any political opponents' mail.

...it's rather obvious, isn't it?

...now I say "fire up the gallows! That mofo should HANG!!" We should even shoot a video of it and ... um ... "leak" it to al Jazeera. :mad:

What the hell is wrong with this guy anyway? Yes, he's the president, but he absolutely DOES NOT OWN THIS COUNTRY! Is he actually TRYING to become the first person to move from the White House directly to the BIG HOUSE??

That asshole should be in JAIL! No two ways about it. And I'm talkin' LEAVENWORTH, not some minimum security country club facility for white collar offenders. He should be in a prison as close to Shawshank as we can get it---complete with crooked Bible-thumping warden whose wife can't bake for shit.

:nuke:

Pass a law that does not allow a president to add an addenum to the law he just signed. . .oh wait won't bush just add a signing statment that says "Unless the president thinks its important".

It's something he wrote at the bottom of a new law. Unless congress had that included in what he was signing, it means nothing. Except that he's a delusional ass.

I would imagine that these "signing statements" are good enough for him until the Supremes tell him otherwise. How much confidence do you have that they'll do that?

in their birthday cards?

What a control freak he is. No wonder more and more Americans can't stand him as each day passes. Historically, he'll never recover from this stuff.:eyes:

...but I happened to notice that Bush looks even dumber with glasses on. Always thought glasses tend to make you look more intellectual but apparently that's not true for everybody...

Maybe it's high time to begin a People's Campaign...

WRAP AND BOX YOUR POO
AND MAIL IT TO THE ZOO
HOUSING THE TRAITOR CHIMP
ON PENNSYLVANIA AVENOO

Let's give the traitor scum chimp more of the stuff he likes to throw.

Boy, were we wrong on that one!

I know that I can put any forwarding address on a piece of mail and give it to the PO for delivery. Can I do the same with 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., Washington D.C. 15222 (or whatever the ZIP is)? I'd love to send them my mail from the ACLU, Greenpeace, Bath and Body, etc.

it and Addington puts it into lawyer speak, and bush signs it. He may not even know what he is signing.

Might be hiding some terrorists in there :eyes:

I know that I can put any forwarding address on a piece of mail and give it to the PO for delivery. Can I do the same with 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., Washington D.C. 15222 (or whatever the ZIP is)? I'd love to send them my mail from the ACLU, Greenpeace, and Bed,Bath, and Beyond.

Osama just loves my detailed plans of major goverment buildings.

He wasn't pleased.

It said something like "under new federal regulations we have the right to inspect media mail." I was gonna post something about here and then saw this thread.

Jesus - whats next?

and see how long the repugs let this go on. Ah if only Hillary had these powers half the gop would stroke out.

:evilgrin:

uguu

and we owe them our obedience.

Unless they're democrats.

issued by President Hindenburg, February 27, 1933:

"Order of the Reich President for the Protection of People and State

On the basis of Article 48 paragraph 2 of the Constitution of the German Reich, the following is ordered in defense against Communist state-endangering acts of violence:

§ 1. Articles 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124 and 153 of the Constitution of the German Reich are suspended until further notice. It is therefore permissible to restrict the rights of personal freedom , freedom of opinion, including the freedom of the press, the freedom to organize and assemble, the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications, and warrants for house searches, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond the legal limits otherwise prescribed."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_Fire_Decree

I know that the Feds can already open mail in situations like the anthrax mailings, but I trust him not even as far as I can throw him. Experts, gvt officials, legislators disagree with this. IF there is already a process in place to do this, like the anthrax stuff, WHY did he have to do a signing statement, contrary to existing laws and contradicting the bill he had signed? damn you mr.bush

This is serious stuff. The signing statements have NOT been legalized by the SCOTUS but it would take years to challenge them in court. Since taking office this guy has put 750 signing statements into play. Here is my LTTE:
___

Wouldn’t it be nice to tell the police that the speed limit doesn’t apply to on Clovis Avenue? When your boss reminds you to be at work at 8:00 am, how about telling him “Okay but I’ll come in at noon on the days that start with T”.

We all dream about changing the rules but our President has found a way to do it. Over 750 times the president has NULLIFIED a law passed by Congress by attaching a signing statement.

Last December the president appended to “The Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act” that he has the authority to ignore the new law. The year before Bush declared via the signing statement that the law prohibiting US interrogators from ANY use of torture can be ignored by the President.

I know terrorists are trying to destroy our way of life and we must be ever vigilant, but when our president ignores the laws passed by congress doesn’t that also harm our way of life?

I’d suggest contacting your representatives and asking them to pass a law prohibiting this abuse of executive power, but then the president would simply sign that law out of existence too.

Of course its nice to say "Big deal, my friends use too many big words like 'too,' 'many,' and 'big,' for him to get through it", but this signing statement stuff has got to stop.

Its never too late to impeach. The time is now.

They might mean something, they might not.

But often when I want to plot against the Bush Administration, I simply post here on DU.

This little smiley means I know they are watching:

:hi:

He can read all about Aunt Martha's hemorrhoids.

Grandma's liver spots.

Uncle Joe's "little drinking problem" (Bush might see himself in this one...)

He can read all the little inserts that come with credit card offers (you never know where a secret terra message is hidden!)

He'll be able to give Laura the secret family recipe for Octopus Pudding.

What the heck, send him your old undershorts (he can get DNA samples from them)

And we all know the address of the White House. If he wants to be a snoop, let's keep him busy! :rofl:

It's hard work readin' hunnerds of letters with all them big words!

He can't read anyway, and I don't anticipate anyone mailing me a copy of "My Pet Goat" any time soon.

Plus, signing statements don't really mean much constitutionally or legally, aside from showcasing the toddler-like petulance of Incurious George.

...with this signing statement bu11sh1t. AND IMPEACH this mofo and make a f#$king EXAMPLE of him to any other little saddams that may come along--let them know that WE DON'T DO THIS SH1T IN AMERICA.

:mad: :mad: F---ing :mad:

he wants to, to American citizens. I've never seen or read about a Prez that wanted so much power to spy on so many people. How Stalinesk of him.

For all those who don't think we are losing rights, this has got to be a slap in the face.

Fascism is the correct word for what has been going on for many years now under W. Bush does not care what the citizens of this country think, unless the citizen is a corporation. The recent voting in of the democrats is a signal to the neo-cons that their time is up. There are piles of issues stacking up: the war, inflation, energy, illegal immigration, etc. All of these things are about to explode onto the political scene with a ferocity. I think that once all of the citizens realize what the lending institutions have done to the country by handing out extremely punitive mortgage loans like candy, and the resulting catastrophe on our economy, we'll see a metaphorical ass-kicking happen. The time is near!!!

will go postal. Hallmark will go out of business, Stationary will be a thing of the past, paper demand will go down, trees will stay up.

Translation: They have been doing a lot of political eavesdropping and he is looking for a way to protect himself and the people under him. Even if the signing statement is shot down, they will still try to hide behind it.

Apparently, a lot of opposition political activity could be characterized as a security threat.

Saying a "new postal law lets Bush do XYZ" implies that Congress passed a law allowing Bush to do XYZ. No such thing happened.

As the article itself states, "That claim is contrary to existing law and contradicted the bill he had just signed, say experts who have reviewed it."

Your subject line should say instead, "Contrary to new postal law, Bush claims right to read your mail."

are meaningless and that we will use them in our investigations.

Sorry for the caps, but I am very angry that this illegitimate liar is still occupying our White House and getting away with pulling this I am Ceasar BS!

...No wonder democracy can't catch on in Iraq, as the US can no longer provide an example.

lately. I kid you not.

i didn't think about it until you mentioned it

i hope they are sufficiently entertained!

figure out what the hell they're looking for.

i got 4 offers today to transfer my credit card balance and a flyer for some furniture store

knock yourself out, mr bush -- the flyer has pictures so maybe you can actually read that one!

I think that about covers it.

Can we impeach, please?

I'm sure we'd be stunned to learn of just one-tenth of the shenanigans ChimpCo has been pulling on us over the last six years.

a warrant to open your SNAIL MAIL. Time is of the essence and all.

in that bill that would allow him to read mail without a warrant. The only exception is if the postal inspector (or postmaster general, I'm doing this from memory) decides that it is suspicious.

The procedure for creating laws is clearly described in the Constitution. "Signing statements" are not a part of the process.