WE are the axis of evil

The US, Britain, and Israel. I'm convinced of it now. Note that all three of these countries are involved in aggressive military acts against other countries without any provocation. And Israel is preparing to NUKE another country without even having been attacked! Jesus Christ, at least when we used nukes in WWII, it was after four years of war against a country that attacked us first. What the hell has Iran done? Exercise it's right as a SOVEREIGN nation to pursue its energy sources as it sees fit?

the GOVERNMENTS are that Axis of Evil. Not necessarily the people.

Yes we are if we just sit and watch it happen. And voting does not count. Voting is the equivalent to Marx's statement on religion.

when they get pissed enough, they'll be at our doors with blood in their eyes for us. Not a lot of choices here except to storm the Bastille.

There are good people in every country around the world. When I say the United States is an evil country, of course I'm not inferring that every citizen is evil. When people refer to governments around the world, it's typical to merely refer to the country itself. Hence, when we say that Germany and Japan committed horrendous atrocities during WWII, we don't mean each and individual citizen - we refer to the governments of those countries.

--"Whatchu mean WE, paleface?"

Have you forgotten how they stole the election?

:eyes:

It's actions that count the loudest, not political speeches by opposition parties. As it is, we're still illegally occupying one country, preparing for war with another, and standing idly by while Israel draws up nuclear war plans.

But do not expect the reasoned people at DU to endorse it as scripture, because it is not.
I am optimisitc about change, because there is no other choice; defeatism adds nothing to the discourse but hysteria and that is non-productive.

Sorry.

:hide:

So when someone says that the United States attacked Iraq, should we correct them? I'm sorry, sir, but don't you mean the GOVERNMENT of the United States attacked Iraq?

Maybe I should hire a lawyer to start writing my posts in order to avoid offending anyone who can't take the subject for what it is, and has to parse every single word.

Because I'm not the only one in this thread taking mild offense. You don't have to parse...but you do have to deliberate before you make grandiose claims about the nature of the whole debacle in rant form.

Now how bout that Democratic majority! :party:

there would be some sort of huge sign that we couldn't miss like a pre-emptive strike on a "neutral" country kind of like the germans did with poland by faking a "polish attack." We would know if we were the evil axis so Ha Ha!

wouldn't you say that repeatedly being threatened with annihilation (as in Israel's case) constitutes "provocation"? What would be an appropriate way for them to respond to that?

I appreciate the warm welcome - everyone has been really great! :hi:

:hi:

Help yourself to the: :donut: or :beer: or :smoke:

I'm trying to lose five pounds, so if that's a Coke Zero, I'll take it. ;)

This is getting totally out of hand. Iran does not have nuclear weapons. Sure, they'd love to see Israel gone, but they're not so suicidal or insane as to think that's up to them to make it happen.

Iran is interested in improving its economic status and power in the region. It is not interested committing suicide by attacking Israel.

This demonizing of other countries, as though they are incapable of acting in rational self-interest is reaching dangerous levels of hysteria. I'm sick of seeing apologies for such atrocious propaganda.

You are being manipulated by fear into accepting the murder of thousands as somehow right and just. It's outrageous!

sw

this sort of rhetoric, which seemed fairly straight-forward to me, is actually ambiguous (or maybe I'm just incapable of understanding it):

_______


TEHRAN, Iran, April 14, 2006 (AP) Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad called Israel a "rotten, dried tree" that will be annihilated by "one storm."

Opening of a conference on supporting the Palestinians, Ahmadinejad fired a series of verbal shots at Israel, saying it was a "permanent threat" to the Middle East that will "soon" be liberated, and questioning the validity of the Nazi Holocaust against Jews in World War II.

"Like it or not, the Zionist regime is heading toward annihilation," Ahmadinejad said. "The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm," he said.

________


Whatever you say.

You're not incapable of understanding it. It seems straight forward to me. Not much different from what people used to say about us, ennit? Like how the creator of "The Wizard of Oz" wrote in an editorial about the death of Tatanka Iyotake:

"The proud spirit of the original owners of these vast prairies inherited through centuries of fierce and bloody wars for their possession, lingered last in the bosom of Sitting Bull. With his fall the nobility of the Redskin is extinguished, and what few are left are a pack of whining curs who lick the hand that smites them. The Whites, by law of conquest, by justice of civilization, are masters of the American continent, and the best safety of the frontier settlements will be secured by the total annihilation of the few remaining Indians. Why not annihilation? Their glory has fled, their spirit broken, their manhood effaced; better that they die than live the miserable wretches that they are. History would forget these latter despicable beings, and speak, in later ages of the glory of these grand Kings of forest and plain that Cooper loved to heroism."

No, I'd say Ahmadinejad spoke pretty clearly. I can't blame Israel for feeling threatened - surrounded by millions of people who wish them dead? Our people have been there, and in some places are still there today. :(

On some level, I suppose I find myself relating to those "hysterical" and "paranoid" Jews. There's just something about being the focus of threats of extermination...you never quite get over it, I guess.

Good to see you here.

Thank you for inviting me. People been treating you good? Going to be a long night here, but I'll be home tomorrow :)

I've taken some time with this issue, looking at various translations of Ahmedinajan's speeches -- including the MEMRI translation site (which was founded by an Israeli military intelligence officer, btw). I do not speak or read Farsi, so, like most people (including you, I would guess) I have to rely on translations. Therefore, I look to sources who DO speak/read Farsi in order to hopefully get as close to the truth as possible -- instead of relying on propaganda.

Here's a good example of how translations matter:



There's much more at the link, and I sincerely wish that you would go there and read the whole piece. It is easy to get caught up in emotions, it takes a bit more effort to take some time to do some dispassionate research and understand that there are people in power who have their own reasons for whipping up fear and militarism among the citizenry.

Why would any rational human being allow him/herself to be manipulated thus, by the powerful for their own ends, without seeking knowledge and answers for oneself? Are you that ready to call death down upon thousands of your fellow human beings because your leaders tell you it must be done? Have you no internal sense of morality that recoils at such monstrous calculations, have you no understanding of how warfare serves the interests of those in power and no one else?

In the 50's Nikita Kruschev banged his shoe on the U.N. podium and proclaimed, "WE WILL BURY YOU!" (I am old enough to have watched this on TV at the time) Should the U.S. have then started bombing Russia? Is it not much preferable that we did not?

Ahmedinajad has less power to direct Iran than Kruschev did the U.S.S.R. (And much MORE chance of being voted out of office within a couple years or so.) He is NOT directly threatening Israel, he is expressing his wish and belief that the "Zionist Regime" (meaning the government) will eventually fade away -- just as ALL regimes eventually fade away in time.

sw

...and I thank you for it. I haven't read it yet, but I assume it will explain more statements than simply Ahmadinejad's "wiped" off the "map" remark - because there have been others.

Having said that, I don't see how a reasonable person could possibly deny that Israel is geographically surrounded by enemies that would like nothing more than to blow her out of existence...but I guess that's what you're trying to sell me.

I'm sorry. Not buying it.

Peace.

every nation has committed sins, every nation has done actions ultimately in its best interest. But I think by large, the positive actions of the United States as a global superpower have far outweighed anything Bush has done.

And his paranoia.

Now?

It's one thing to go beyond *'s dumb "good v. evil" rhetoric, it's another thing altogether to use it in reverse, and just as juvenile and incoherent.

And, seriously, do you believe Iran isn't going for nuclear weapons?