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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:37 AM
Original message
McCain Lieberman?
Are these two clowns trying to set themselves up for a run in 2008 as an independent ticket?

They are parading around spouting their bush enabling bullshit everywhere I look the last couple of days. I am so pissed off at Connecticut right now for re electing this prick.

I hope they run together so they can both get sunk. Were they not paying attention when the people spoke in november? Apparently Joe thinks it was a referendum to continue enabling this asshat that has done everything wrong from the get go.

I don't know what its going to take to get these two clowns colossal egos in check but someone needs to step up and do it before they do more damage.

GRRR so pissed right now after listening to these two clowns try to justify more of the same for an hour.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. That would be my best guess.
We need to start painting them for the weaselly creepy brown nosers they are. No consistent positions on anything and no loyalty to anyone beyond themselves.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
2. I hope so.
It would split the conservative vote.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:41 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. wouldnt hurt me a bit to see these two run. i dont think either party
respects at least one of them
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. If the Dem's stand up over the next year
And do what they should do and bring all of bushes stinking pile of feces into the light of day I don't think conservatives stand a chance in the next election. That of course assumes we put someone up for president that isn't completely compromised. Sadly I think our best hope of that at the moment is probably Al Gore and I don't think he is really going to run.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
3. i think so. dems pissed at lieberman, repugs pissed at mccain
they would get the non political.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. It sure appears to be their plan
Every time I turn on cspan or the news lately I see these two lip locking. I used to buy into the independent McCain shtick but he has so obviously manipulated his positions in his quest for the white house the man behind the curtain has been clearly revealed.

I think you are probably right though the middle grounders are the only hope left for both of them. I only hope the middle grounders are smart enough to see through their bullshit.
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Hoosier Dem Donating Member (346 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
6. Can we expel Connecticut from the Union???
Seriously, I am also SO PISSED that this state would send a professional Asshat like this back to the Senate.

Warning to Nutmeggers: You have two strikes against you

1. You elected Prescott Bush to the US Senate, thus beginning the Bush Famioy Governmental Crime Wave

2. You sent LIEberman back to the Senate after CT Dems did the smarth thing and dumped him.

If you make a third mistake, we may have to send you Alan Keyes and Katherine Harris.

You have been WARNED!!!!! :hippie:
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. I know its likely foolish
But I seriously hope the people there are watching what this decision has accomplished and recoiling in horror.
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lvasconcellos Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #6
12. Right on with that!!!
Dumb Dumb Dumb!!!!
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iamjoy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
8. That Unity Ticket
that I have heard so much about, maybe...
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:51 AM
Response to Original message
9. Bet on it!
Although Lindsey Graham has been sucking up to McCain a lot..
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lvasconcellos Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Anyone see Lindsey yesterday
on MTP? Ha Ha I thought he was going to stroke out. With all his gesturing and concern for the "situation" in Iraq , he never once placed the blame on the quagmire where it belongs.
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lvasconcellos Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. Don't read this until you take your BP meds (a pre-emptive cure)
In case you didn't read it. What abunch of BS! Either Joe is stupid or lying...How can anyone in their right mind try to simplify the situation so that there are only two players. He has me more pissed than the neocons who thought up this mess:banghead:

Why We Need More Troops in Iraq

By Joseph Lieberman
Friday, December 29, 2006; A27



I've just spent 10 days traveling in the Middle East and speaking to leaders there, all of which has made one thing clearer to me than ever: While we are naturally focused on Iraq, a larger war is emerging. On one side are extremists and terrorists led and sponsored by Iran, on the other moderates and democrats supported by the United States. Iraq is the most deadly battlefield on which that conflict is being fought. How we end the struggle there will affect not only the region but the worldwide war against the extremists who attacked us on Sept. 11, 2001.

Because of the bravery of many Iraqi and coalition military personnel and the recent coming together of moderate political forces in Baghdad, the war is winnable. We and our Iraqi allies must do what is necessary to win it.

The American people are justifiably frustrated by the lack of progress, and the price paid by our heroic troops and their families has been heavy. But what is needed now, especially in Washington and Baghdad, is not despair but decisive action -- and soon.

The most pressing problem we face in Iraq is not an absence of Iraqi political will or American diplomatic initiative, both of which are increasing and improving; it is a lack of basic security. As long as insurgents and death squads terrorize Baghdad, Iraq's nascent democratic institutions cannot be expected to function, much less win the trust of the people. The fear created by gang murders and mass abductions ensures that power will continue to flow to the very thugs and extremists who have the least interest in peace and reconciliation.

This bloodshed, moreover, is not the inevitable product of ancient hatreds. It is the predictable consequence of a failure to ensure basic security and, equally important, of a conscious strategy by al-Qaeda and Iran, which have systematically aimed to undermine Iraq's fragile political center. By ruthlessly attacking the Shiites in particular over the past three years, al-Qaeda has sought to provoke precisely the dynamic of reciprocal violence that threatens to consume the country.

On this point, let there be no doubt: If Iraq descends into full-scale civil war, it will be a tremendous battlefield victory for al-Qaeda and Iran. Iraq is the central front in the global and regional war against Islamic extremism.

To turn around the crisis we need to send more American troops while we also train more Iraqi troops and strengthen the moderate political forces in the national government. After speaking with our military commanders and soldiers there, I strongly believe that additional U.S. troops must be deployed to Baghdad and Anbar province -- an increase that will at last allow us to establish security throughout the Iraqi capital, hold critical central neighborhoods in the city, clamp down on the insurgency and defeat al-Qaeda in that province.

In Baghdad and Ramadi, I found that it was the American colonels, even more than the generals, who were asking for more troops. In both places these soldiers showed a strong commitment to the cause of stopping the extremists. One colonel followed me out of the meeting with our military leaders in Ramadi and said with great emotion, "Sir, I regret that I did not have the chance to speak in the meeting, but I want you to know on behalf of the soldiers in my unit and myself that we believe in why we are fighting here and we want to finish this fight. We know we can win it."

In nearly four years of war, there have never been sufficient troops dispatched to accomplish our vital mission. The troop surge should be militarily meaningful in size, with a clearly defined mission.

More U.S. forces might not be a guarantee of success in this fight, but they are certainly its prerequisite. Just as the continuing carnage in Baghdad empowers extremists on all sides, establishing security there will open possibilities for compromise and cooperation on the Iraqi political front -- possibilities that simply do not exist today because of the fear gripping all sides.

I saw firsthand evidence in Iraq of the development of a multiethnic, moderate coalition against the extremists of al-Qaeda and against the Mahdi Army, which is sponsored and armed by Iran and has inflamed the sectarian violence. We cannot abandon these brave Iraqi patriots who have stood up and fought the extremists and terrorists.

The addition of more troops must be linked to a comprehensive new military, political and economic strategy that provides security for the population so that training of Iraqi troops and the development of a democratic government can move forward.

In particular we must provide the vital breathing space for moderate Shiites and Sunnis to turn back the radicals in their communities. There are Iraqi political leaders who understand their responsibility to do this. In Anbar province we have made encouraging progress in winning over local Sunni tribal leaders in the fight against al-Qaeda and other terrorists. With more troops to support them, our forces in Anbar and their Sunni allies can achieve a major victory over al-Qaeda.

As the hostile regimes in Iran and Syria appreciate -- at times, it seems, more keenly than we do -- failure in Iraq would be a strategic and moral catastrophe for the United States and its allies. Radical Islamist terrorist groups, both Sunni and Shiite, would reap victories simultaneously symbolic and tangible, as Iraq became a safe haven in which to train and strengthen their foot soldiers and Iran's terrorist agents. Hezbollah and Hamas would be greatly strengthened against their moderate opponents. One moderate Palestinian leader told me that a premature U.S. exit from Iraq would be a victory for Iran and the groups it is supporting in the region. Meanwhile, the tens of thousands of Iraqis who have bravely stood with us in the hope of a democratic future would face the killing fields.

In Iraq today we have a responsibility to do what is strategically and morally right for our nation over the long term -- not what appears easier in the short term. The daily scenes of death and destruction are heartbreaking and infuriating. But there is no better strategic and moral alternative for America than standing with the moderate Iraqis until the country is stable and they can take over their security. Rather than engaging in hand-wringing, carping or calls for withdrawal, we must summon the vision, will and courage to take the difficult and decisive steps needed for success and, yes, victory in Iraq. That will greatly advance the cause of moderation and freedom throughout the Middle East and protect our security at home.

YEAH RIGHT JOE...YOU SUCK How many times do you mention Al-Queda?? Get with reality stupid, it's sectarian!!!!
What the f*** is wrong with those people in Connecticut??

:banghead:
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. WTF
It only took two lines for me to run into this fools idiocy!

On one side are extremists and terrorists led and sponsored by Iran, on the other moderates and democrats supported by the United States

Yes its the good guys against the bad guys Joe :eyes:

If we can just help the good guys kill all the bad guys everything will be fine.....Right you fucking simpleton.

Do these idiots truly not see that our problems in Iraq stem directly from not getting the "good guys" and the "bad guys" Directly involved in their reconstruction and instead dictating to them how that reconstruction would be accomplished?

Maybe I am just an idiot and don't have enough information to compete with the big brains like the joe and John show. But I know one thing for sure we are not going to kill our way to success there.
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
23. He's a one trick pony....really really REALLY wants americans
to go blow up Iran.....for,well, all kinda good reasons and and and, it'll be GREAT and they'll be FREE and all and and and, no go ahead, Americans, YOU guys go blow up Iran
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
13. If they do, we're dead.
That's a brilliant strategy, and one the Republicans may have picked up from the Texas race. If these two run as Independents, they can draw enough moderate votes from the Dems to give the race to the hardcore right Republicans, the way Kinky and Grandma did to help Perry win in Texas. Perry was very unpopular, but many of the people who spun off from him didn't want to vote Dem. Kinky and Grandma gave them another option, so that Bell did not capitalize on Perry's unpopularity.

It would be a typical Republican strategy. They already used it in 2000 by getting Nader to run and donating heavily to him. And they would see it as payback, since they still believe that CLinton only won because of Perot, despite all evidence to the contrary.

Hope it doesn't happen that way.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Didn't the Republicans contribute heavily to Lieberman's
Edited on Mon Jan-08-07 12:17 PM by doc03
win in Connecticut? The Neo-cons win if McCain/Lieberman wins and they win if their Republican ticket wins.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
21. a month ago i thought so. i dont today. i dont think they wll get the
vote. i think there are too many that feel by either mccain, the right... lieberman the left. i dont think we are dead at all. as a matter of fact i think it will be a ticket that will make it easier for dem
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Goes without saying that I hope you are right and I'm wrong, but
I saw the opposite happen in Texas. People hated and still hate Perry, but he kept his base happy, and the other three candidates split the vote, so he won. Americans are in love with the fantasy of a third party, or of some independent savior not connected to either party. They think it makes "common sense," and all those other American myths. You see it here, with people wanting the Greens, or complaining about the two party or "one party" system. It's just deep in the folklore of the American psyche, I guess.

But again, I hope you're right and I'm wrong. Better, I hope it doesn't even come to that.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. personally i think mccain will get the primary for repug and it would
be under the repug ticket. i am not seeing mccain leaving the repug party. he had a real opportnity to do that not long ago and he said, no not gonna leave repug. i am in texas too. you are right on that. i know many in the panhandle didnt want perry, or the woman. here it was inky that tok from bell. i wish bell had come up to the panhandle. geez... i wish i could find the democratic party. enough disliked perry, but i found out late, ... and knew little about bell. if there was even an effort here, could have helped
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charlyvi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
28. Not if the war is still the primary issue in '08.
They're both war hawks; if Iraq (or Iran) is still the uppermost issue in the '08 campaign, I can't see the American public wanting to prolong a disasterous failure by voting for two war hawks. Same goes with Iran, which I think McCain and Lieberman both want to attack. I can't see this as a winning campaign strategy.
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. You are still thinking in terms of a majority
What happens in a three-way race is that the majority loses, because two candidates split their votes. The faction with the most rabid supporters wins, because they are the ones who get out and vote. This could work for us, but it could just as easily work against us. McCain/Lieberman would take the approach that continuing the same old methods didn't work, but giving up entirely would be a mistake, too. They would propose a "third way," and this would siphon off those people who feel that Bush has screwed up but who still feel that they don't like the Dems' pull-out strategy. That would leave the right-wingers with their core third of voters, and that might be enough for them to win. It happened in Texas, where a governor with an approval rating in the mid 30s won re-election.
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Strawman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
16. Nope
McCain is kissing way too much fundie ass to run as an independent. Highly unlikely.
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doc03 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. The same thought occurred to me the other day
when I saw those two assholes together. I think that is what they are up to. I have heard many Republicans that would support Lieberman and Democrats that like McCain. I also think the MS will help fuel this match-up, it would make for good ratings to have a three way race and that's what it's all about for the MSM. The MSM media always portrays them both as non-partisan mavericks of their party.
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nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
18. I saw them on CSPAN talking to the AEI
It was revolting. Of course the AEI was all over them.
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. I don't think so
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
24. Two Iraq hawks with zero charisma?
Perfect for splitting the Bush voters.
Bring 'em on!
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #24
32. And Bush has charisma?
Never underestimate the power of the Corporate Media to build up Republics... they managed to take a former alcoholic and drug abuser with an arrest record who deserted the military during wartime, and who was born to an aristocratic New England family and turn him into a down-home plain spoken Texas Cowboy regular guy.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
25. Do you think McCain will opt out of the GOP race?
That would be interesting.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. He seems to be positioning himself
to run on the Unity 08 ticket, if he loses the primaries.
His massive ego could hand us the White House on a silver platter.
(As long as the Dems offer a clear choice on Iraq).
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mikehiggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
26. McCain/Lieberman? I'd vote for Cthulu/Godzilla first
Why settle for the lesser of two evils?
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. ROFL
Thanks I needed that!
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. I'm a Godzilla/Rodan supporter myself.
They are the only ones that can win the war against the men of Planet X!!

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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
30. Oh. Is that two people?. . not "McCain Lieberman "?
that's all
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NewJeffCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-08-07 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
31. Would Republics accept Lieberman as a VP candidate?
With Rudy's colossal screw-up last week, I think it might be McCain's nomination to lose.

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