DU Parents: Do you pay your kids for good grades??

I have a friend of mine who plans to pay their freshman high school kid $1,000 if (and ONLY IF) he gets straight A's on his report card. They figure if he gets straight A's all the way through high school, it's money well spent b/c he'll hopefully get an academic scholarship and they'll have less to pay for his college!! Interesting idea. Apparently, the kid is highly motivated, cuz what kid doesn't want that kinda dough, but I don't know if he's actually pulled it off. I still need to check in with the mom about it. The first report cards for this school year are coming out pretty soon.

Hmmm...I have mixed feelings about it.

On one hand, what does it teach our kids, to pay them for "Success" in the way WE think it should look? How can you put a price tag on personal achievement? You can't. The feeling of being truly successful has to come from within. Lots of millionaires are screwed up and don't feel worthy of their success. To me, being a Success is knowing, at the core of my being, that I am enough, no matter what. I wish that awareness for my children and hopefully I teach them through my parenting. It's not all about money, in other words.

But, on the other hand, let's face it: Money talks, especially for teenagers. Sad, but true. I'd like to think it's possible to create a "monetary reward system", if you will, that supports certain academic goals and yet focusses the kid's attention on how they can EARN their Success if they apply themselves. I mean, that's how Life works, right? We choose a goal and if we work diligently towards it, we can succeed.

After much debate, we decided to try a version of our friend's idea for the first time this year and told our 13 yr old 7th grader we would pay him $100 if, and ONLY IF, he gets straight A's on his report card. Well, lemme tell ya, he was super motivated at first...but then he started slacking off a bit and now he's probably getting straight B's, with the occasional A. We'll find out soon enough. Amusingly enough lately, he's been trying to negotiate with us, asking what we'd be willing to give him PER "A" grade. Hmmmmm....he's quite the wheeler and dealer. I've nixed that suggestion, saying, "It's all or nothing, buddy!" Maybe it's too harsh, I don't know.

In any case, bottom line, I'm still very pleased with him and his progress. And I also make a point of telling him and showing him we love him, NO MATTER WHAT. He's a great student, but I must admit, the extra motivation of a potential $100 reward has helped.

What are your thoughts on this?

monetary gain.

and I promised both of them $500 for any report card with straight As. And I never had to pay it.

I realize that isn't very scientific. LOL

conclusion that external rewards undermine intrinsic motivation.

When I was growing up, my parents always emphasized hard work. They took us out for pizza when grades came out in recognition of our hard effort.

I'm also concerned that it rewards product over process. Not all kids can or should make A's. What about the kid who busts his butt and makes all B's vs. the kid who doesn't have to try at all and makes A's? Or, how about the kid who takes all AP classes, busts butt and makes one B vs. the kid who takes "easy" classes and makes all A's with little effort? Which is worth the greater reward?

I only have one in school so far (5th grade). She's a straight A student and works hard. So far, we've resisted paying for grades, although last grading period dh surprised dd with a $25 gift certificate to Barnes & Noble in recognition of her hard work.

When I was a kid, if I got a good report card (As & Bs, maybe one C) my parents would let me get a computer game, usually educational, which at that age I didn't mind. I wanted to do well in school anyway, but the computer game was an added bonus, and made me feel like they really cared about my grades and education.

Seriously. Parent pay a lot to support they kids in their endeavors. Why not put some cash behind intectual pursuits?

For me, my dad would take me to get a Dairy Queen when I got good grades. :-)

Jr managed to get through school without doing any of those things. I thought it would be a good motivator but we ended up dealing with other issues and have a happy healthy young adult, productive and interested in the world.

We came up with a point system - how much an A is worth, a B is worth - how much a d detracts, etc..

It is like - the more you keep them studying, the less trouble they can get into - and if it costs them something to screw up, it is worth it.

Joe

If school is your job and you work hard at it and you have parents who are willing to pay you for your results, then so be it. Parents use reward systems all the time and if they (the parents) want to take it to the next level, they can use that money to teach fiscal discipline, the importance of savings and how to balance a checkbook.

straight a's is usually an unreasonable goal, the straight a student in academics is rarely the same student who is at the high end of the bell curve in gym class, so once the child sees the goal is unreasonable, yeah, he's going to slack off and give up -- i had a girl in my high school who had all a's except a c in gym, so should she have been screwed out of the award?

also, there is always going to be one teacher who doesn't give a's

so i agree w. the kid, if you're going to do this, pay separately for each grade

my idea is that you pay for each "a" with the proviso that the kid doesn't get paid for any "a" if there are any "d" or "f" grades

i've also seen it done where gym, art, music etcetera are not counted -- so if the kid has straight a's in math, spanish, english, social studies but a "b" in art, then he still gets the money

otherwise the kid who is good at academics is not going to want to "spoil" his straight a's by taking anything that challenges him and is outside the comfort zone of academics

anyway, every day you go to work and get a paycheck, you are getting a price for your personal achievement, we don't work for nothing in a capitalistic society, not quite fair to ask better of kids than we ask of ourselves

so i think paying for grades is fine, as long as the game is not rigged completely against the kid having a real chance to win

Is that so one day you'll get paid? Might as well get the ball rolling.

I'll consider the idea of paying him for the "A"s he gets. He's yet to get a C or below, so I guess that's worth something, eh?

Last year, in 6th grade, he actually DID get straight A's on his report card!! I think we took him out to his favorite restaurant for a steak or something. :D

:hi:

and nothing else...

course, I never had to really bribe...she has always made all A's

except this year. She has A's in Honors English IV, Honors World History, Biology, Programming, Band, Drama

buttttttt

she is a Freshman taking Geometry and got a C...


grrrrrrrrrrrr

but she really tried hard.

she is an awesome kid

n/t

I pay a little more for the As and detract more for the Ds -

It is a judgement thing - by the kid.

Tell you - second kid watched what happened to the first kid - she is always doing homework.

Joe

Straight A's for my daughter (13) is something she acheives about 1/2 the time ... with the same amount of effort (sometimes more) my ten year old son will receive B's and C's.

It is hard to know what is right- that is what makes us parents!!

Good luck to you,

Joe

Thanks for the idea....

Good on your kid!! You must be proud. :thumbsup:

:hi:

Love her greatly

My parents said that going to school was our job. We were expected to do well at our jobs, and were paid according to the quality of our work.

I would have excelled for free, but it really helped one of my sisters focus. Going to school was her job; and working hard was about more than just us as individuals.

Except I had to add a new rule: If he gets any F's, he gets no money. He brought home 4 A's, 2 B's and an F last time, for the second 6-wk report in a row, so I decided to more strongly discourage the F's.

Focusing on a goal a few months down the road makes a lot more sense.

That being said, 1000 seems like a LOT.

When I was in seventh grade my step dad made me a deal that if I saved half the the amount for whatever I wanted he would put up the other half. That was back in the late 60's Thur early 70's, I had a paper route, mowed yards, walked dogs, sold night-crawlers, shovel snow etc.. The old man paid dearly for a couple of years and then the deal quit.

My parents used to give me a dollar an "A" and they would only pay me at the end of the school year.

It didn't harm me, I didn't get an allowance so this was my chance to get some spending money.

BTW, I don't pay my kids for their grades....I pay their tuition and that's enough.

Cheers

Joe

My Dad would take us to McDonald's twice a year.

Boy have things changed...

Cheers :toast:

I learned just how the juvenille justice system worked - never going to do that again.

Kid got good grades, too - scary. He got in trounle and a scholarship - really scary stuff!!

You know, I think my parents were so smart now.

Joe

:applause: :thumbsup:

with something, a day trip somewhere or something special she's really wanted provided she's gotten good grades. I don't do the reward thing for every semester but the year as a whole.

And it's not *just* for a monetary goal. He also gets an allowance, half of which he saves weekly. But he has *big ticket* items he wants - and his goal in getting them is those straight A's. His latest goal is an electric guitar, which I'm not thrilled with, but I will go along with his choice because I *trust* him enough to make good decisions.

Just throwing money at your kid for good grades doesn't work. But helping him set goals, and aiding him in achieving them -- THAT is how we look at it. He already has to go to school -- why not sweeten the pot and give him a reason to do well? The time it will take him to buy his guitar will be cut in half, his grades will be good, and then we all get to spend a quality weekend doing something together as a family.

We also TALK about all of this as it goes on. He's not in a vacuum, like alot of other kids.

We do the same thing with setting goals for his "big ticket items" that he wants to save for and pitching in if he reaches a certain amount, like 1/2 or 3/4 of the cost. Recently he saved up a bunch of money to buy himself an Nano Ipod, for example. That was a worthy goal and now he's thrilled to have it.

and I agree with you, it's important to TALK about all of this with them as we go along.

:hi:

It was basically a duty we had, as part of living in our household.

I wasn't paid for them -- it was expected that my sister and I perform to the best of our ability. That didn't necessarily mean straight A's, but if we got something that wasn't reflective of our ability, there better have been a damn good reason why. College (and pretty significant parental contributions toward it) was considered the reward for good grades.

I see no problem with setting goals and working to achieve them.

I do give my kids an allowance that's docked if they slack on music practice, chores, or behavior. I've worked really hard to get my kids to WANT to do well, though, and I'd feel like I was undermining that if I paid for grades.

Also, I know I was sometimes unfairly graded in school (sometimes good grades for no reason, sometimes undeserved bad ones) so grades seem a little bit out of my kids' control, though their behavior isn't.

However, if I had different kids, I might. Who knows? You do what works. I had to *totally* bribe one son to get him to use the toilet...

... and is unable to recognize any intrinsic value in successfully accomplishing academic tasks.

He is also unable to appreciate the long-term consequences of doing poorly in school.

But he knows that a pass on the state Reading exam will net him 100 dollars toward his next idiotic electronic gadget.

When it comes to your kids, all bets are off. You do what you have to do to serve what seems to be in their best ... ahem... long-term interest.

And the consequences can be very expensive.

You do what works.

Joe

and I totally hear you on the latest "idiotic electronic gadget" thing. I can soooooo relate. :eyes:

:hi:

Just kidding.

:)

It did motivate me. Straight A's meant an extra $60 bucks or so. School is poorly structured to motivate most people so I see nothing wrong with some good old fashioned incentives.

Maybe 20 bucks if my daughter gets stratght A's. The're kinda expected of her. Plus she's in the 6th grade so she's rewarded with more freedom and trust for her hard work, and she seems to respond to that more.

maybe the parents are just tossing that amazing figure out there to entice the kid, like a carrot...not really expecting he'll pull it off, but willing to pay the piper if he does.

Yeah, the Freedom thing is big, too, for kids these ages, eh? Good luck with yours! :hi:

in third grade, he's thirteen now and in seventh grade.

It works. It really does.

Sometimes he does slack off but it really helps.

sounds like we've got boys the same age, too. Good luck, MassDemm! :hi:

We put fifty bucks for every A my daughter got (academic classes only) into a savings account. We started in the first grade. She turned 16 this past summer and the savings account bought her a car for her birthday. She's gotten good grades and her long term effort paid off. She learned that doing well and saving money is a good thing.

She still made straight A's this past semester even without the financial pay off. Honestly, she probably would have made those grades without the bank account but it was fun for us to do and we never made a big deal about it. She was surprised that we had saved as much as we did.

although that wouldn't really work for our 4th grader daugter b/c at the elementary school she goes to, they don't really get grades. It's more of a range kind of thing, hard to nail down specifically. The grading system at her public school uses just a few numbers to show where she's at. It's relatively new and we parents are still trying to get used to it, frankly.

Good on your daughter for saving up for her own car! :applause: You must be very proud of her.


:hi:

or 100 on a test.

They are 6 and 10. You should see them save them up and stuff. It's the only thing they can keep track of!! Little monsters.

it gets worse. :D

:hi:

son when he was a senior in high school. We had bought a new family car--an Altima--and it was his to drive to/from school. We told him that if he kept A's and B's his entire senior year (this was a bright kid who regularly brought home C's and occasional D)that the car would be his on graduation. If not, he would have to assume the payments if he wanted to keep driving the car.

Didn't work. He actually got an 'F' in his math class. The whole week up until graduation I was expecting a call from the principal telling us he wouldn't graduate (2004).

This kid just didn't care about school. He was accepted at two colleges, but declined to go. We insisted he get a job and find a place to live away from home. He's now working for a security and messaging software firm making mid $30's and has his own apartment (with a roommate). And he just made the last payment this month on the car! He told me this weekend that he looks forward to getting up in the morning and going to his 'cubicle'. He just loves computers and is happy to be working at a tech support job.

I congratulate them and sometimes we go out to celebrate for hamburgers but I do not pay them for good grades...not yet...but as a parent I am not going to judge what may work for others.

isn't a bad idea. I'm personally uncomfortable with money, but if a child behaves well or does well academically, a little treat (dinner out, ice cream, a movie, a day out with mom and dad, the zoo, a sleepover party) isn't a bad thing to do.

Middle school doesn't go on your record so I think that learning good study habits is far more important than getting A's.

Once you reach high school, though, your decisions do effect your options in the future and many people later wish their parents had forced them to work harder in high school.

They might want to be able to "make their own choices" with "their own money", invest in their particular projects or to learn how to budget for their future when they're actually out on their own. Rewarding good work with a "pay increase" or bonus, or giving them a chance to concentrate on their school work rather than being worried about getting a job to pay for the occasional extras the average teen "needs" to feel good about himself or herself isn't necessarily a bad thing.

However, I am the first to observe that most teens aren't motivated by what they can do to improve their future with money, but by conning mom and dad to let them coast by with a sense of entitlement to boost their "fragile" spoiled rotten egos around their peers without having to actually make an effort to learn how to handle finances in a mature manner.

If you pay most kids (kids these days!) for grades, you're just pissing that money down the drain. It'll go to an endless collection of high priced junk food, junk clothes and whatever the latest, brainless junk that's being marketed to them. All of which will probably end up decomposing in their closets, under their beds and desks, and otherwise littering the house underfoot after a few hours of interest before it gets tossed for the latest teen fad.

Haele
(waiving her cane and shouting "yew punk kids, get off ma' lawn!")

I immediately recognized it as a form of bribery despite my father's contention it was a reward (BF Skinner be damned with his "positive reinforcement" of behavior). On the other hand, I wasn't offended, just disappointed in how disjointed my father was in trying to engage me in working hard, to find different things I studied to be interesting, to learn from my mistakes, etc.

I also took his money without complaint. I learned that a fool and his money are soon parted, so I took advantage of his largess. I know, I know, he did it out of the kindness of his heart. Look, I know he's not perfect, but at the time, it made sense (and cents) to take his money and continue my studies on my own terms, money notwithstanding.

:D

My oldest daughter got $10 for every A in middle school, $25 for every A in high school.

BUT she also had to maintain a 5.0 average or she would be grounded. Sound harsh? No way. She is smart so this isn't a problem for her or I would have factored in some kind of waiver. Also, her AP classes are weighted more - a B in an AP class is counted as a 5.0 in her school, an A is counted as a 5.5. So she coasted with lots of Bs all throughout high school in her AP classes and graduated with a 5.25 average, and we duly paid her for any A's. Her school is competitive though - her 5.25 GPA only netted her a class rank of 121/600.

I did NOT do this in elementary school. Throughout elementary school it was all encouragement and love and TLC so she would feel confident and able when she hit the "wall" of MS and HS. So far, this plan is also working on my second daughter. She knows what happened with her older sister and is aware of my expectations for a 5.0 for her in her middle school and high school grade levels. I am also blunt with their teachers about what I demand from my kids - I work WITH their teachers to make sure we are all on the same page.

I will say this, Asian kids (for example) are EXPECTED to excel at school. Their parents demand it. They aren't "smarter" than American kids, they simply have a family with expectations of excellence. I KNOW my kids are able, so I demand and expect high performance from them.

My uncle started paying me for grades when I was in the 5th grade. If I got straight A's, I got $2 a grade. If I got A's and B's, I got $1 for each A and $.50 for each B. In high school, we renegotiated to $5 each for straight A's, $.50 each for A's and B's, and if I got a C, I had to pay him $10 for every C, $25 for a D, and $50 for an F. We even signed a contract. I made out like a bandit until my senior year, where he got a little revenge. Thank god I didn't make that deal in college...I would have starved my freshman year.

I still would have gotten good grades if money wasn't involved. I was the good kid who wanted to make straight A's. My sister never cared about the money or her grades, and she didn't do so hot.

Ultimately the motivation should be for the satisfaction of doing the job well (by the way, parents' and relatives' passing along values and standards is part and parcel of passing along culture ... all other cultures do it, and I don't understand why Americans should be exempt).

At early ages, it's appropriate for rewards to be tangible. Goodies and the like, and overdone praise. Usually in elementary school teachers manage to get that transfered to intangibles, things like gold stars and As, and the level of praise gradually tapers off.

By high school the average kid should have mostly internalized the reward system. Some rewards are fine, but should be secondary bonuses: if they're the kid's primary motivation, he's going to have a rough time in college and working: If his pay isn't sufficient motivation, there's no work ethic backing it up ... what's left tends to be illegal. And the person with that kind of values system tends to be called "materialistic" and "mercenary" ... if not greedy.

Some behavioralist ex-convict rehabilitation methodologies involved repeating the process: overt punishment and reward for behavior, followed by indirect forms of punishment and rewards, followed by monitoring the extent to which the ethics system was internalized to the point that right behavior was its own reward. The hardest part was weaning the guys off tangible rewards.

At least all this is what the ed psych guys told us.