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If you're going to execute a guy by beheading him, at least have the decency to admit it!

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trumad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 11:39 AM
Original message
If you're going to execute a guy by beheading him, at least have the decency to admit it!
BAGHDAD, Iraq - Saddam Hussein’s half brother and the former chief of Iraq’s Revolutionary Court were both hanged before dawn Monday, but the half-brother's head was severed by the noose — leading to outrage from Sunnis who claim the body was mutilated.

Barzan Ibrahim, Saddam’s half brother and former intelligence chief, and Awad Hamed al-Bandar, once head of Iraq’s Revolutionary Court, had been found guilty along with Saddam in the killing of 148 Shiite Muslims after a 1982 assassination attempt on the former leader in the town of Dujail north of Baghdad.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16629656/
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greenbriar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
1. oh god, that is just sick
and bushy probably wants it as a souvenier
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
2. Oh crap.
This may do it. :crazy: :cry:
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. this is not that unusual- and as sick as this sounds it is more
...'merciful' than the opposite end of the spectrum.

While the be- heading is grotesque for those who live on, using too little force, and having the victim hang without the neck even being broken, but the windpipe crushed is and agonizing terrifing death.

This was no "act of god"- this was human miscalculation.- I'm grateful that it was quick and grotesque, rather than long and agonizing.

I wish it didn't happen at all though.

blu
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. It is unusual
Drop-weight ratios for a successful hanging have been known for a looong time. These guys are strictly clownshoes.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. No, it is not unusual, it IS
preventable.

If this murder had been done in a very efficient, professional manner, the chance of this happening would be less- but it still happens on occasion.

Yes, the 'formula' for a 'proper' execution has been known for a very long time- but that hasn't stopped many people from being be-headed, or from suffering long drawn out deaths-

If you check out the history of execution by hanging in the US- you'll be surprised at the number of botched hangings.

I was.

blu
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Sure
No formula for hanging is infallible. I recall that Lewis Payne, one of Lincoln's convicted assassins, dangled for minutes before he died. But the video from Saddam's hanging shows a bunch that's more like an ad hoc lynch party than the sober, measured affair that a state execution should be. I strongly suspect that these guys don't put any more thought into it than making sure they have rope and a platform to drop him from.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I agree with you- I'm
just ...'glad'... (no good word I can think of) that the error was one that caused him to be decapitated rather than strangled.

bad choice either way.
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charlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. Heh, me too
I'd prefer decapitation to strangling, myself.

Ick! :yoiks:
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Something tells me not a lot of calculations are done in our Iraqi death chambers.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Here are my thoughts
Edited on Mon Jan-15-07 01:32 PM by mvd
It looked like they "miscalculated" with Saddam too, but he was only partially beheaded. There would be no reason for those in charge to show more anger for the two that were hung yesterday than Saddam, but since I believe they tried something with Saddam, I don't believe it is too tinfoil for it to happen here.
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demrabble Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Are You Sure?
Are you sure this was a human "miscalculation?"

I think that mutilation of a body is a far worse offense to some than a painful death would be.

My guess is that this outrage was done quite on purpose.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. no, I'm not sure-
but from what I understand of the culture (admittedly very little) the concept of making ones enemy suffer for their deeds seems to be important- If it was intentional, it was the lesser of two very bad evils in my view- which really doesn't matter.
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americanstranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 11:56 AM
Response to Original message
4. That was the patented 'Iraqi Razor Noose' at work.
Not to make light of a bad situation - but how dumb do they think we are to tell us that a goddamn noose severed a guy's head?

Has anyone asked the White House about this yet?

- as
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. It does happen
If the rope is too long so that the body drops too far, the head can snap off.
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VTMechEngr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. It can and has happened before
If you drop too far, not only does the neck break, but the force can tear through the neck muscles and decapitate the condemned.

For instance:

The 1913 table says that a 165 lb man must drop 6’ 1” to ensure instant death. But beyond that height, you risk decapitation. To short, and you strangle him.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
8. Somehow I suspect that the US administration
believes that those who resist the invasion are as afraid of dying as the cowards who ran from the Vietnam war. No one will tell me this cruel and unusual punishment and virtual celebration of it is not a deliberate strategy.

Someone should have told all these war criminals to read the history of the Middle East.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. Well, it has happened before
Eva Dugan and Black Jack Ketchum are two examples. But somehow I don't trust the Iraqis. Wouldn't be surprised if if was on purpose or done after the hanging.
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demobrit Donating Member (279 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
13. Being a Hangman requires skill
The Hangman needs to know the weight of the guy to be hanged and usually the hangman practices with a large bag of sand to ensure that the right amount of slack rope is used that will break the neck when the body drops onto the noose.
It is apparant that the hangman in Iraq must either be inexperienced or incompetent.
No matter whether the hangman is skillful or not capital punishment is immoral and wrong.
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mvd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. I agree about the immoral and wrong
I'm just not so trusting that this was an accident. With the rage that some have, I mean.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. It is sick and demented!
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 12:57 PM
Response to Original message
17. Ummmmmm, Cause They Didn't Expect That Outcome Maybe?
Pretty gruesome stuff, but it's not like they planned for it to go down like that. Sometimes shit happens.
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VTMechEngr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-15-07 01:57 PM
Response to Original message
21. Tis why the Math Impared shouldn't do hangings...
The drop height calculations have been around for centuries - There is no excuse for this.
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