Apparently, I need to get over the fact that my ancestors were kidnapped, beat, raped,

forced into degrading servitute and denied the right to be a human being.

But hey, what's a lil genocide among friends?

Black people 'should get over' slavery? Comment stuns lawmakers in Virginia
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
01/17/2007

RICHMOND, Va. — A state legislator said black people "should get over" slavery and questioned whether Jews should apologize "for killing Christ," drawing denunciations Tuesday from stunned colleagues.

Delegate Frank D. Hargrove, who is white and Christian, made his remarks in opposition to a measure that would apologize on the state's behalf to the descendants of slaves.

In an interview published Tuesday in The Daily Progress of Charlottesville, Hargrove, 79, said slavery ended nearly 140 years ago with the Civil War and added that "our black citizens should get over it."

The newspaper also quoted him as saying, "are we going to force the Jews to apologize for killing Christ?"

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/nation/story/1D08FAF095356F648625726600148CDD?OpenDocument

Then again he might thank us for starting western homophobia and perfecting western military imperialism.

So in the Jebity Jeebites minds we're only one minute step higher on the fundie heirarchy than cockroaches...

It seems to work for them.

Nowhere near the Evangelicals' level, but we do have them as well.

One of the reasons I consider myself a 'Catholic agnostic'...(yes it is an oxymoron.)

but that movie wasn't anti-semitic :eyes:

:eyes:

I don't care if people want to be ignorant as long as it doesn't effect the rest of us. Unfortunately, that's rarely the case unless they're hermits.

Matthew 27: 24 - 25, Matthew 26: 59
and Mark 15: 15
and Luke 23: 20 - 21
and John 19: 12

:shrug:

an uncommon name. There were lots of them.

If you really want to know what I think (and even if you don't), I'll tell you. The legend exists even if the man didn't. If he was indeed real, I don't believe he was the Messiah, as the Messiah is defined as the person who brings peace to the earth. It doesn't take an experiment to determine that we've never had peace on earth yet, thus no Messiah. That is, if there's any chance that there even can be a Messiah, or God, or an afterlife, or any of the things religions propose to be true without any means of testing or otherwise proving (or disproving) they exist. I prefer to focus my beliefs on the existential, viewing the rest as ideas or stories. That doesn't mean I can't speak about Jesus without a disclaimer, shmuck.

:eyes:

His philosophy and others like him is out of sight, out of mind.

Especially when it's a good bet that the people who voted for him think the same way that he does.

Just another example that racism is alive and well in the USA, but instead of being out in the open it's in the closet and the voting booth for some.

One jerk at a time.

What an ignorant, racist fool.

:hi: Mid !

nice to see you!!

:hi:

Strom Thurmond needs a poker partner in hell.

I smashed my thumb w/ the hammer putting the spike through his ankles and it's never been the same since. :evilgrin:

birds of a feather and all that

... to be an inbred freeptard!

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=3138595&mesg_id=3138595

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

so-called 'Christians'? Who put them in charge of the world?

But I won't be hearing from them thanks to the wonder of Ignore. (Hope you don't hear from them either.)

The Jews killing Christ was an ugly chapter in American history. Do you think Frank Hargrove has a white robe that he wears to socialize with his pals?

They've become so predictable.

not superior and aren't garanteed excusive rights just because they are white and ignorgant false christians. Jews did not kill Jesus, the Romans did that. Therefore, the Pope should apologize for killing Jesus.

These old southern white men are still mad losing the stupid Civil War. If they wanted to keep their slaves they never should of fired on Fort Sumter to begin with. Then the slave owners would've been slain in their beds by the uprising which they so feared.
No, Blacks should never get over it.

I hope you're being sarcastic, but the pope is not the successor to the Roman Emperors. By Catholic tradition, the Pope is the successor to St. peter as the Bishop of Rome. I hardly think Peter would have OK'd the crucifixion as he was too busy hiding himself.

When going after an inbred bigot like this clown in Virginia, it's really best not to add to the confusion.

For the record, has anyone found out if this clown lives in Virgil Goode's district??

Of course the Pope isn't the successor, he just lives in Rome. And Peter, well he's the big denier remember..."I don't know that dude."

So apparantly I should apologize for my people "killing" Christ but yet none of my 6 million relatives really died in Europe in WWII. Thats the logic we are dealing with (no doubt thats what this guy is a holocaust denier too):argh:

Theologians have varied in their opinion over the years as to whether "the Jews" (= Pharisees/Sadducees) in Jerusalem in the 30s AD actually bore responsibility for the crucifixion (making a bunch of assumptions there, as well). Let's assume they did, for the sake of argument--it's enough to merely accept that others can be both reasonable and accept this as a premise.

But some have even taken the nasty position that *living* Jews, therefore, bear some sort of personal responsibility. This is a position few today take, for good reason: Having people today bear responsibility for what others did in the past is ultimately untenable.

But this is, I think, precisely the point: Should Jews today apologize for what some Jews in the first century did? The required answer is 'No'.

Otherwise, the rest of what the guy said becomes pragmatically infelicitous, and his discourse incoherent. I assume his discourse is coherent, and he's merely echoing what many others have said ('coherent' in the sense found in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coherence_%28linguistics%29).

I personally find it preferable to ignore what the nasty Angles and Saxons did when they ran into the relatives of my ancestors, and what the English did where my ancestors emigrated from--Ireland.

among family? After all, only the uppity ones got punished. Didn't you see Gone With the Wind? Really now, quit your whining, that was 150 years ago, the white people have moved on...:nopity:

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Mel Gibson, the patriot, whose slaves would rather stay with their massa then go fight those Redcoats for their freedom.

with regards to slavery. You see, they don't pretend it didn't exist anymore, they just pretend it was okay.

I went to one of those antebellum historical interpretive sites recently, and they showed a nice little film documentary with live actors about how the family there lived pre-civil war, etc.

Of course, their slaves were depicted as a complete family, Dad, Mom, children laughing, smiling happy faces, nice and clean brand-new period clothes, fully coiffed, fully bathed, etc. You see, slavery wasn't so bad.

:eyes:

protray happy field hands picking cotton while the white folk rested under the Magnolia trees drinking lemonade or mint julips.

the Theft of 2000.

But then, we live in a perverted society where mourning should last about an hour.

then it is flags at half-mast from now until the cows come home.

Macacca - definition: A word that can kill the political aspirations of racists in the first state to ever elect a black governor.

There has been a lot of ugly ignorance lately x(

did you read this thread??

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3132456

a du'er believes you should forget too! :grr:

Take a look.

:scared: This is on DU. :eyes:

makes you wonder what his beef is, doesn't it? :( "he doth protest too much" and all that...

And it shows. Big time.


Or, perhaps just a very cold and callous way of viewing actual human beings.


Either way, :scared:. This one's been on DU for about two years and still doesn't get why people are offended? The very nature of the responses clearly indicate that this is very close to people's hearts. But that, along with many things, apparently, goes over their head.

I can't reply in that thread because I was blocked. But, I blocked him first, so I really can't blame him. However, the reason I choose to block was because, quite frankly, when I see stuff that offensive on DU, it burns me up. I know my temperament enough to know I would likely say something that I would later regret. And, if I've never had a friendship with a particular poster and find that I recoil in horror at many of the posts, then why bother having to see them? Real life is full of people you don't want to deal with. When I come to DU, it's to be around people I can relax and be comfortable with. I'm all up for debate, but really, some things are just beyond the pale... so to speak.

i can read that garbage on other websites, but here, i prefer to feel that i'm among FRIENDS. hi friend! :hi:

:hi:

by the colonization of this land that already had inhabitants at the time. I'm not sayting that your pain is less than my pain, but I am saying is that, just like today, the fat, rich, white guys that didn't want to pay taxes to the king of england, still dont want to pay their fair share for anything. They cheat, steal, kill, invade, lie, and send others to their deaths for their greed.

The same wasichus (Lakota for "greedy, evil". usually reserved for white invaders and liars) that killed my people and enslaved your people are still in power today and they continue to use, cheat, steal, and kill to get whatever they want.

So I tell you to not forget about your history. Learn your history, know your enemy, enbrace your rage, and learn who can be your friend and ally in the fight against the real enemies. Most of the common white people are not our enemies, they too are in fact victims, but they dont realize that there labor and debt, struggles, and dead children are being used to profit the same wasichus.

I am part Cherokee and I think possibly some Creek, and a touch of black, and scotch irish german english mixed up...Melungeon. Appalachian roots a.k.a. "hillbilly".. Or "black Irish/dutch" as it's called sometimes.

When you look at the papers describing mixed race people in censuses or 'legal' proceedings of the time, it was in those days a crime, literally, to be of mixed race. (you know the old race traitor “miscegenation”routine ).

Melungeon people faced alot of bigotry because they were assumed to be degenerates'. Some got forced sterilizations among other awful things in the name of racial purity and theft of land.
It is tragic what shitty ideologies like eugenics has caused human beings.

The psychopathsth control freak racist assholes will destroy to steal from others and rule over them.

http://www.melungeon.org/index.cgi?&CONTEXT=cat&cat=10149

The best way to make sure people don't get raped, beaten,murdered ect, is to REMEMBER what happened,to your anscestors so it will not be tolerated and forgotten so it happens again!!

I'd like to know that.

In fact, the vast majority of us have been. However, like with extremists in any society, the people who haven't and yell the loudest about it get more press.

Believe me, most people in the South have been over the loss of the Civil War for decades.

I do realize that -- and I'm sorry I let my crankyness get the better of me.

We are a union that does NOT recognize slavery.
Hell, I bet the guy that said that thinks that only propertied white males should vote.
He probably has distemper over the fact that WOMEN and BLACKS can vote.

He's a relic.

are condemned to repeat it

(or something like that)

Never forget where you came from

That Idiot could very well be related to me. For that I am profoundly sorry and embarassed.

Let me just play devil's advocate here... the article does no say what question he was responding to. Obviously he sounded insensitive in his phrasing, buy he may have been referring to the proposal of reparations, which is something even most Democrats probably don't support. I personally have no money that has been past down from my 150 year old ancestors and therefore do not have extra money to give to another racial group.

for the Commonwealth of Virginia's role in the institution of slavery. No reparations are being proposed.

people voted for them to put them in office. Flabbergasting.

Umm-
My sister lives in Manassas. Its pretty scary actually. And Manassas isn't nearly as bad as the south part of the state. Pretty much once you get south of Richmond its pretty scary. These idiots like Virgil Goode and this current moron are actually pretty representitive of the people there. Thats what alarms me..:hide:

....but there are too many people on the DU from VA that I really like and respect, and I know that doesn't apply to them. :hug:

They vary in their localities, from Richmond, Hampton, NoVA, etc. and are sane....well, except for Underpants, he's *mostly* sane ;-) (just KIDDING!)

he's right, our state is full of nutjobs, hopefully that is changing though!

The story of Jesus all came from 4 gospels (Matthew, Luke, John & Mark) written years and years after his supposed death.

It didn't happen to anyone alive today. The people who could conceivably "get over" it have been dead for a century. If the Commonwealth wants to apologize, apologize for the instutitional racism that continues today. I suppose this kind of bill is a useful bromide against white guilt, and I guess it's part of the 400-year-anniversary thing VA is doing, but other than that I don't really see the point. The problem now is racism now, not slavery that no-one living today went through.

and one can't be separated from the other. The institution of slavery resulted in the racial injustice that continues today.

The racial disparities today are not the fault of people who lived 150 years ago; they're our fault. I don't like bills like this because the problem isn't in 1850 it's in 2007. And it's not John C. Calhoun's fault it's ours.

Look out, Trent Lott- someone's gainin' on ya!

based on slavery. So too for almost the next 100 years. I agree with the leadership who say that some of America needs to come to terms with that legacy...in a psychological way..or meander along as half people..psychis trying to hide that the American Creation Myth was not all heroes. There was such evil darkness in the beginning. For such a long time. And no national reconciliation about it. A war was fought, so too civil rights...but taking ownership of all our ancestors did wrong is important. To be fully adult.

One of the reasons the South was so economically backwards compared to the North is that slavery is such an inefficient store of capital. While northerners were hiring my Irish ancestors for pennies they used the hundreds of dollars they weren't spending on them to build things like railroads, factories, and schools. If anything, slavery was what dragged the Southern economy down for decades.

but taking ownership of all our ancestors did wrong is important.

Not mine. Half were being starved, murdered, and driven off their land in Ireland by the British at the time, the other half were being herded to Oklahoma to live on a reservation. It's weird enough to take responsibility for my ancestors' actions (I tend not to), but to take responsibility for people I'm not even related to strikes me as at best pointless and at worst condescending. If you want me to sign an apology, ok, I have no problem with that. I just don't see any point. Nobody living today had anything to do with this. The problem isn't the racism in the past, it's the racism today.

Same with industrialists up north..but there is a difference between paying people pennies, and paying people nothing and not allowing them freedom to farm land or even work for pennies. Some of my ancestors were indentured for 1 year after arriving by ship. Life was not easy back then. But think of all the land that was taken from some of your people and given to those who were not black (or native american). That was wealth..land. A harsh life...but wealth nevertheless. Something that might add up to school fees for the kids one day..even though those kids had to work like dogs on the farms during some seasons.

You bring up another group that needs to come to some reconcilliation. The was a genocide too.

1 in 9 Americans had slaves at the time of Benjamin Franklin. I'm just saying that it is a truth...to be held ... along with many others. So nobody should stop talking about it. There is never a day when the conversation should end on both topics. Just as the conversation of the constitution or laws of the land never ends.

I'll never forget seeing a film of native Americans being blown away by cannons in civics class when I was 10 or 11. The idea that man can be wrong, wrong, wrong, is an important one. Should be on the top of every adults mind. One that was lost on Washington in 2003 when the USA went into Iraq.

no person or people is/are apologizing to any person or people. The Bill is for Virginia, as a state, to atone for it's role in the instituation of slavery, which was quite significant.

Yes, it is part of the 400 year anniversary, and high time for it if you ask me. If we want to bask in the glory of our ancestors' accomplishments, then we should also atone for their sins.

My heritage is much the same. The Irish came here looking to farm to be able to eat and ended up living among the Cherokee. That went well for about 100 years and then, Georgia was needed by the Government for a good reason I'm sure........ the last of the Cherokee Nations was gone.

My ancestors were lucky. They managed to escape the "Trail of Tears" and settled here (AL). I say lucky due to stories of the "removal" being terrible and I have family letters.... They actually wanted to stay in the South. Imagine that :*

No slave labor or mansions like TARA....just poor farmers trying to stay alive somewhere.


I'm not sure why anyone would think most of us are not over the Civil War. In most southern states,(MS, AL, GA, TN, etc.) particularly north and north central areas, many of the men(kids) fought for the north.

American. Who needs to look in a mirror and say - perhaps I live in a great country and perhaps it was never perfect..and neither am I.

there was a time not too very long ago when the majority of lawmakers in this country were more interested in taking up a collection to send us all back to Africa than treating us like human beings. The fact that enough people in the VA legislature where outraged by comments like this to even make this public is a HUGE step in a positive direction. IMHO.

Sickening. We can't change the past, let's work to save the future.

this will play huge down there.

I'm sure this is not a patient man. You have to get with it or you won't satisfy this troglodytes requirements. And i'm just sure that satisfying his requirements is high on your list! Probably just above the bottom of page one million.
The Professor

Slow and steady wins the race!!

:hi:

:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:
:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:
:eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes::eyes:

Then again, you shouldn't have "gotten under it" in the first place.

:eyes:


Thanks for the link CatWoman

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3138595

http://mediamatters.org/items/200701170002
MICHAEL SAVAGE: But basically, if you're talking about a day like today, Martin Luther King Junior Day, and you're gonna understand what civil rights has become, the con it's become in this country. It's a whole industry; it's a racket. It's a racket that is used to exploit primarily heterosexual, Christian, white males' birthright and steal from them what is their birthright and give it to people who didn't qualify for it

=============

Please, let me be the first to apologize for the white christians who believe such SHIT. If we could toss them out of our race we would cause they give us a really bad name. Of course I'm a woman so I guess I have no birthright either :grr:

That means he probably, at some point in his life, has been in the same public space as someone who was born into slavery. It wasn't so long ago. Does he think that events from early in his own life are also irrelevant to the present?

really need to stop taking away Michael Savages white, heterosexual Christian birthright. And quit screwing with his Homeland.

"Just get over it" is sort of like going to a doctor because of pain in your leg and being prescribed aspirin...while ignoring the broken leg.

:grr:

Why should black people get over slavery, when he won't get over the Civil War?

And it's still January ffs. :banghead:

:scared:

It's bad enough white people are being embarassing, without an alleged fellow nerd chiming in. :eyes:

Seriously. I am sickened.

Have you been to the South where on the historical plaques the civil war is called "the War of Nothern Aggression"? I saw that in Georgia somewhere...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3140018




Yep. I blocked 'im.

People like this make my skin crawl:mad:

And how do they get elected.

I need a shower.

My ancestors came from Scandinavia and during the early middle ages there were lots of slaves taken from the places my Viking ancestors raided, it is almost a certainty that I have many ancestors who ware dragged off from thier farms in England, France, and Scotland to be the concubines of norse warriors. How much of the Italian gene pool is made up of genetic lineages brought to Italy by slaves in the Roman period? I ain't defending this racist asshole, the state should officially apologize, but we all have ancestors that were treated like shit

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/16/AR2007011600995.html


At the very end of the piece -- this is like the cherry on the tottering layer-cake of bigotry, if I may carry the "birthday party" analogy by Del. Dwight Clinton Jones (chairman of the black caucus) one step further.

"Hargrove, whose original remarks were reported in the Charlottesville Daily Progress, tried to make amends during a speech on the House floor. As fellow Republicans looked on warily -- notably House Majority Leader H. Morgan Griffith (R-Salem), who stood stiffly and silently at the back of the chamber -- Hargrove told Englin, his seatmate, that Englin's "skin was a little too thin."

"I didn't even know you were Jewish," said Hargrove, who turns 80 this month. "I don't care what your religion is. I really don't care.""

MLK's Holiday ...in rememberance.

How soon we forget. How soon we allow those with "small minds" to try to take over our memories and thoughts. :-(

On Edit: Hey! I'm just one of those DU Romantics...always looking for a good cause...they get fewer by the day.

that affects Republicans out there.

George Felix "Macaca" Allen, Virgil Goode, and now Frank Hargrove.


:evilfrown:

I always thought DU kinda subscribed to the policy of 'not going do it'.

Sorry, nope, not gonna do it. Wouldn't be prudent. :evilgrin:

...their kids are being sent to die in countries whose names they can't even spell, they're being outsourced and belittled and poisoned, and do you see THEM complaining?

We're all being used and belittled. That some of us are getting it worse than others should be no surprise. It's only a matter of degree.