Rich America, Poor America . Barrons article

"TWENTY-FIVE APARTMENTS IN MANHATTAN sold for more than $20 million in 2005, up from five in 2004, with a few fetching $40 million-plus. NetJets couldn't meet the enormous demand for its private-jet flights over the Thanksgiving holiday. Imports of French cognac into China surged 24% in 2006. And, last May, an unidentified Russian bought Dora Maar with Cat for $95 million, the second-highest price ever for a Picasso.

Never in history have the haves had so much. Burgeoning wealth and incomes from globalizing industries, swelling asset markets, media ubiquity and fast-developing emerging economies are accruing disproportionately to the entrepreneur class ..."

See the economy REALLY IS doing just fine!!

If you are living in Rich America, that is.

To get the rest of the article, you must be a subscriber. However, just this little bit of it gives plenty for discussion.

Is this kind of gap good for the nation?

Hope it doesn't end as badly.

I'm getting to the point where I'd rather see it sooner than later.

Get the agony over with, and start the rebuilding.

The parallels between the Gilded Age and now are staggering. As the parent of a 10 year old, I just wonder how sketchy everything's going to get.

bemoan, captialists celebrate and editorialists puzzle over. While there are some aspects of the income-and-wealth divergence that can be explained by cyclical forces, the long-term pattern in which the rich get rapidly richer seems durable. And there remains exploitable investment opportunities tied to this trend."

There you have it... the long term pattern of rich folk getting RAPIDLY richer.

A lot to look forward to.

Are there any rich folk in Congress who are likely to look askance at the "exploitable", and try to reverse this trend?

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2007/01/11/health_care_for_all_lets_get_it_started.php

>>
Freshman Sen. Jim Webb, D-Va., opened the conference by citing how dramatically the gulf has widened between CEOs and workers. Webb said that when he was a college graduate in the 1960s, the average CEO earned 20 times what the average worker made; today, that CEO’s paycheck is 400 times that of the average worker. “The growing divide along class lines that we are seeing is not good for anyone,” including the wealthiest Americans, Webb said. “It is not healthy in a democracy such as ours to have such a wide gap between rich and poor.”

Webb said that he and several other Senate progressive and populist Democrats—Sherrod Brown of Ohio, Jon Tester of Montana, Byron Dorgan of North Dakota and Bernie Sanders of Vermont—are meeting on a regular basis “so we can talk about economic fairness for the people doing the hard work of this society.”

“This is a greedy moment in American history,” said Lawrence Mishel, president of the Economic Policy Institute, compounded by the belief “that there is nothing that we can do about it.”

The challenge is to dispel that sense of powerlessness with bold and practical policy solutions, and being willing to invest the time and energy in getting the public and political support to get those solutions translated into public policy.
>>

about waste, etc.

So... Brown, Webb, Tester--that's great. Of course, I'm not surprised about Bernie. Actually, I'd be surprised if he *wasn't*. :)

That's good to hear they're meeting regularly about this! I can think of some names that *should* be on that meeting list... but it would only serve to get me flamed. :(

Thanks for that article.... looks like something else to do some writing about! :hi:

He wrote a book,"Take This Job and Ship It".

I checked his voting record on trade agreements. He voted against CAFTA and even voted against NAFTA back in 1993. Here is the roll call:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=103&session=1&vote=00395

I'm not surprised about Dorgan -- he wants to keep jobs here.

I am currently reading it now

Take This Job and Ship It: How Corporate Greed and Brain-Dead Politics Are Selling Out America
http://www.amazon.com/Take-This-Job-Ship-Brain-Dead/dp/031235522X

But I'm in the middle of about three other books right now.

Just finished "Hostile Takeover" by David Sirota -- a good one.

to find such a progressive in deep red North Dakota. Then again, South Dakota used to have McGovern. Kudos to my Northern neighbors :applause:

"The numerical evidence is plentiful, thanks to data collectors who want to reverse the trend, or take advantage of it. For years, both the number of wealthy housholds and their aggregate resources have been growing much faster than world gross domestic product. The latest Merrill Lynch-CapGemini World Wealth Report estimates that the number of people globally with financial assets exceeding $1 million climbed 6.5% in 2005, and their combined financial wealth rose 8.5%, to $33.3 trillion, for an average of $3.8 million each. It's getting to the point where "millionaire" will no longer serve as useful shorthand for defining who's rich."

Number of wealthy households growing much faster.... see, * really was a success!!

GAK

That picture of the weeping Jesus is great! Where did you find it--with that article?

I can't seem to capture it.. :(

:hug:

(The 'Jesus Wept' image isn't from the article; it's an image I found on the web & saved.)

:hug:

I just made the point yesterday to someone who can't understand that low-income people have NOTHING left at the end of the month. I gave Katrina as an example--poor people at the end of the month, and even if they had a car, they didn't have the $$$ to put gas in the tank, so they were stuck.

He was put out with me for saying so. :shrug:

We both had vehicles, but he can't drive. He's in a wheelchair, and needs a lot of equipment- so that means the van...maybe someone else can use my car to escape. NO WAY are the cats going get left- his two, my three. Cats in their carriers. Cat food. Non-perishables. Water jugs. Medical supplies (he needs them daily). Blankets, some clothes...getting pretty damn crowded in here....incidentals and yeah, we've got enough between us for a couple tanks of gas.
Now...
WHERE DO WE GO?

Really, this is still so ignored.

What you said is soooo on target! I'm frustrated, because what you said needs to be common knowledge with average citizens. How to make that happen?

So, how do you think you would have fared at the Superdome or Convention Center? :cry: I still can't stand to think of all the suffering there.

And the suicides that have happened since, with no fanfare, or even acknowledgement.

I"m just sick.

I'm strapped this weekend, counting pennies. But one of my neighbors is out there sitting on his steps, his wife who has cancer, is inside laying down and he tells me she hasn't eaten today. You only have to look at his face to see how overwhelmed he is. God only knows when *HE* last had a check up himself.

I got him a bag of stuff but frankly am not sure he can cook in the state he's in. Of course, there are no more visiting nurses and my neighors are probably a few years too young for Meals On Wheels -- even if they weren't too overwhelmed to APPLY for them.

And it's just not effing enough. What about tomorrow? What about next effin week.

What is the MATTER with us.

Sorry to spew. I have to get on the phone Monday. And Tuesday, and Wednesday and every day.

:nuke:

/grammar

:cry:

I wish I could run over with a casserole! REally, that is just waaay too sad!

I understand from overwhelmed! It has hit me hard as of yesterday.

One can only do so much of the damned calling and pleading before one goes over the top.

I also understand not being able to cook. :cry:

This is just MURDEROUS!!!

I can't even think of anything to say. That poor woman! That poor man!

And here sit the rich of this article, gloating.

O Goddess!!

I can't sit with this. Will make calls Monday. But, you know, this piecemeal bullshit is not the fast track to solving this problem. :(

Just take foodbanks, for example. Very few give away stuff that one can actually make a meal of!!

I don't know if this is the place, but I will mention that I got very excited during my NM trip, to see the Wellness Centers at two of the Indian Pueblos. One man talked to me a lot about what it's done for his life (he's in quite good health now, a big improvement!), and what it's done for the community (crime rate waaay down, teenage pregnancy waaay down, etc.)

When I went to the King's Day dances at Tesuque Pueblo, I met a man who is involved with their Wellness Center, and he gave me more info, and put me in touch with someone in Santa Fe who gave me so much info that my head was reeeling, and gave me the info for a very good start on the issue.

Maybe you would like for me to share some of that with you?

Really, this must stop!! I'm so encouraged that the Indians are making such good headway, but of course, they already have a good community in which to make that start.

Let me know...... :loveya:

covering poverty now that my friend is gone.

(Because WHY wait until Monday.)

That reporter couldn't understand why this couple can't take care of themselves. I finally said, you have to come and look at their faces and decide for yourself. Left my name and number. :nuke:

Called some city numbers. You know where that went.

Called AA to see if they could steer me to a charity. They said, call the Salvation Army.

Calling them now.

I can't believe this is my city. Or maybe, I hope this is my city and that I can find something. Cross fingers.

:hug:

edit to add: The person I talked to at the SF Chronicle was an editor. I doubt she's ever deferred a meal in her life. :cry:

Sometimes I think we should just throw out this whole deal and start over.

If no one calls me back, I'm writing this up for OpEdNews.

:nuke:

I truly believe that churches need to hear the full story about how worthless most of these agencies are!

Most people have NO IDEA.

Churches, unlike politicians, actually DO have a MANDATE to act on this. With enough of us, I believe somehow we can create enough of a wave to get things moving.

Or, just NAIL our 95 complaints to enough church doors!!!

all those calls.

You are truly something special.

Agencies are NOT the answer. Let me repeat that: AGENCIES ARE NOT THE ANSWER! Having been screwed over by so many, I just can't even begin to deal with their games anymore.

I really appreciate that you made the effort to call the paper. I hope you can get SOMEONE to listen, because there is a HUGE need for education about poverty! (OK, I think you know that...hehehe)

So.... have you/would you consider going to churches, and say, "Don't just hand me off to an agency--listen to what I have to say"? Would you be willing to ask if they will let you come speak? REally, I've had invitations to speak just by going to talk to the clergy about what I"ve gone through. I know that you would be able to make an eloquent point.

It's worth trying.

If, and that's a big IF, you have the energy.

I think you could accomplish something.

Hey, there's always GLide Memorial... they do good things... or at least, used to. I assume they haven't changed too much.

Let me know how it goes.... IN the meantime..

:applause: for Beth...

As others have suggested elsewhere in this thread, following predictable courses leads to predictable results.

Let the filthy rich strut and preen, flaunt and boast of their wealth, while the number of citizens living in abject poverty increases daily. Maybe it won't take TOO long before simmering anger reaches boiling fury and the obvious remedies are employed. I hope to live to see the Glorious Revolution in the USA and to be able to participate in it with great enthusiasm. "Liberté, égalité, fraternité, ou la mort!":evilgrin:

one by one, rather than getting angry and coming together to fight.

I don't know the answer to that.

I wish I did.

We poor folk just replay the same putting each other down that we see the better off doing to us.

:cry:

Plato wrote in the Republic about the disastrous results of a huge disparity between the rich and the poor. Even 3000 years ago political scientists knew that it made a state wildly unstable.

and social benefits for all of society. But I ain't holding my breath. I have seen too much greed from the elite. It seems many of the entitled class wish themselves to be monarchs.

creeps me out every time that I see it.

You would think with all his $$ this dude would invest in a 90210 plasic surgeon on that gullet. I think Dr. Rey would be the perfect doctor for him.

:)

a recipe for disaster

we need to eliminate the haves, take all their stuff and use it to try like hell to save what's left of this planet

That's pretty funny.

manufacturing going on. I'd say the average paying "good" manufacturing job around here pays in the $26,000 - $34,000 range. For most who have these jobs plus a couple kids it's almost imperative that both spouses work full time. The days of Ozzie & Harriet are long gone. The middle class is flat out disappearing, and it doesn't seem to me that I hear a whole lot about it. I hope more people soon start waking up in a very pissed off mood.

The last time we had anything even close to this kind of economic disparity in America was in the infamous "Robber Baron" Era.

(I don't know if this does anything beyond lowering my blood pressure for a few hours. But, thanks for the nudge, bobbolink.)


Saturday January 19, 2007

Today on my way to our neighborhood store, I noticed
my neighbor was sitting out on the sidewalk. I’d
recently heard that his wife was diagnosed with
cancer. They are a 60ish, mixed race couple, both
seem to be involved with alcohol and our block has
gotten used to the sound of sirens as ambulances go to
their Section 8 apartment at least twice a month.

They are fragile looking people. Today, sitting on
the sideway, my neighbor looked dazed and he seemed
more sober than he might want to be.

I asked how things were going. He said, not too good.
I asked, have you guys eaten today. He said, no. We
ate on Thursday. Today is Saturday.

This is San Francisco. My neighbor is sitting a
block away from a busy tourist thoroughfare. He’s
probably not sixty but today he looks much older. I
buy them a bag of groceries I can’t afford and get my
phone out.

First I called the San Francisco Chronicle. I used to
have a friend there that covered the poverty beat.
But today I talk to someone new. An editor who can’t
understand why this couple can’t take care of
themselves. “But, have they asked for help?” “But,
couldn’t the money they spent on alcohol feed them”?
“I’m not understanding what you mean.”

I finally tell her, come out and look at their faces
and decide for yourself. When you are that
overwhelmed, you can’t move. You need a hand. Let me
give you my name and number in case you understand
later. I can wait although, I don’t know if my
neighbors can.

She really didn’t understand that there have been
maybe 25 professional people who’ve interacted with
this couple in that last few weeks who should have
known they would need help because they were having
trouble fending for themselves. Doctors, nurses,
intake administrators, EMTS, firemen, police,
landlords, neighbors. Who am I leaving out?

So much for human interest at my local paper.

Okay. So then, I called a string of city hall numbers
(none of them manned) and then a string of charities.

I hope someone calls me back. It’s hard enough to be
poor or alcoholic or to be dealing with cancer.
Having all three happen at the same time would
overwhelm anyone. This is Saturday, so it will take
time for someone to call me back. I don’t know if I
have enough in my account to feed us all until Monday
morning.

And I want to know that our people, here in the Paris
of the Pacific, have something more than my light
wallet that we can count on. I want to know, as I sit
here in this $400,ooo dollar condo, that there is a
logic to the way we apportion our resources, whether
we’re talking about empathy or taxes. I want to know
that my neighbors will eat this week and not go hungry
on our ever more genteel block. This is our
neighborhood and it’s ours to keep or to lose. Or
maybe, ours to fight for.

Elizabeth Ferrari


"You've got a smile so bright, you know you could've been a
candle." Andy Stephenson 1963 - 2005

the planet or the next generation.

That's what my RW relatives always say.

And it generally causes civil unrest.
Even when there isn't rioting and killing, it generally increases the animosity between both sides. The poor hate the rich for their exploitation, not caring, and having so much excess. The children of the rich come to hate the poor more because they perceive them as completely different from them and recognize their animosity.
I went to college with some rich third world students and I didn't really know what to say when they talked about their privleged life as normal or how bad the poor are in their country. Americans are becoming like that too though.

but the gap is also between the rich and the non-rich as well.
The 94% below $150,000 and the 1.5% above $250,000 or the even smaller group with incomes over $500,000. Sure there are some 4.34% straddling that gap, but that's not statistically significant, is it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

The reason the difference between a bimodal distribution and one that's just stretched is important is that in the former there's one objective place to put the boundary between "rich" and "poor" - in the local minimum between the two modes - in the last diagram I posted it clearly makes sense to categorise everyone in the bulge on the left as "poor" and everyone in the bulge on the right as "rich".

In a unimodal distribution, though, who you categorise as "rich" and "poor" is arbitrary - where you put the boundary is up to you, so talking about the rich and the poor as though they're well-defined groups is misleading.

A lot of people try and present wealth inequality as being the division of the population into two clear groups, rich and poor. That's not an accurate representation - there is no neat dividing line.

and I disagree with what you said about bi-modal. Just because there are two modes, does not mean that one is 'poor' and the other 'rich' unless you are using those terms as relative definitions, which, to me, is not as meaningful as a more absolute definition for poor.

Just because it is fuzzy, does not mean it is arbitrary. Statements like "families with incomes less than $40,000 a year are poor" or "families with incomes over $150,000 are not rich" are still ridiculous. We may not know exactly where the line is, and there can always be exceptions (like me, a guy who makes $10,000 a year but owns his own house) but we can set fairly clear boundaries, albeit approximate ones.

"If a free society cannot help the many who are poor, it cannot save the few who are rich."--From Pres. Kennedy's Inaugural Address, January 20th, 1961. The theme of this thread reads like one of the classic, standard reasons given in high school history class as to why the Roman Empire fell. The rich class had usurped so much from the entire population, making them desperately poor, and had extended itself so far beyond its means, conquering and acquiring increasing areas, and so ignored the needs of the people, that when the weakened Empire was finally attacked by invading armies, (among other reasons), the people did not even bother to fight for it. They had by then been so abused by it, that they didn't care if the Roman Empire won or lost, stayed or fell. We are reaching that poisonous stage of thought ourselves, where it seems that to fight for "our country" is really just to fight for the continued presence of selfish, greedy rich people, taking all away from us. You fight for "their" country.

As sfexpat2000 and others have described here, there is a kind of maddening, anxious, fearful rage that eventually grips you completely, when you are poor, you can't pay for things, can't pay bills, can't get things repaired and they are getting worse and worse, skip meals, and everything you own gets older and older, you can't do anything--and nobody helps you. I now find myself turning on the TV as if it were some propagandizing enemy, (which of course, it is), listening to them laughing and selling things--endless sales pitches for things I will never again have--laughing at their celebrity-trivia, laughing at all the remodeling they have just done to their vacation homes, and feeling a smoldering hate, and complete disconnection, that I have never really felt before. It is not my country I hate; this has nothing to do with what America is. It is this thing that was once democracy, that is now capitalism; the thing that was once a place and a society, that is now a market or demographic share. There is a whole generation of people growing up now--and from now on--who know nothing else but this cut-throat greed; they do not even know, and can find no evidence anywhere anymore for the claim, that America was once a just country, model for all the world, where people took care of each other by Government programs, and served the greater good because they were proud of it and wanted it to flourish. Now, who would believe it? This is what is really poisonous about this whole era: it has killed our belief in something good, that other people are even any good.

This will encourage the most corrosive kind of anti-American feeling in Americans themselves--when you can't even relate to your own country, because all you are ever presented with is the spectacle of the most repulsive, greedy rich people taking everything that was ours. We get these people shoved in our faces all day every day, by way of their closed, commercial media, and we ourselves are shut out. Not only the presentation of it every day, but the fact that they have actually cut the programs that used to help people, and that we all still need, while only extending Government activity and money, to rich people. The Governemt itself has gone from service and liberty, to arranging deals between corporate interests--complete corruption. When the many are suffering, no one helping them, and the few who are rich are laughing and enjoying themselves....yes, this is all very threatening.

Why? One simple, four letter word, DEBT. As long as debt is relatively cheap and easily available through credit cards, car loans, and interest rate only mortgages, then you're not going to see a class revolt in this country.

The middle class has been replaced by the debtor class. A significant portion of the American population can borrow their way into a middle class lifestyle, and as long as they can borrow, then you won't be seeing any real changes like formation of labor unions, a much higher minimum wage, and national health insurance.