If you were an Iraqi would you consider an attack on the U.S. o.k.?

As I was working the other day it hit me:

If my house was damaged, a family member killed, I had lost my job, had no running
water, and no electricity all of which were not problems before the Americans how would
I feel now?

And how come our great liberal media doesn't report what Iraqis are really thinking
and doing?



Does *, Cheney, Rummy, Rice, Wolfie, Pearle, Kristol, and Rove have any shame?

BushCo is making enemies. That's the only thing they have done well. Except for lining their own pockets with the spoils of war.

India, Pakistan, Taiwan are all next door to the ME.

I think "Whoops" is a valid statement to make.

China is untouchable, but they don't have the real juicy stuff the other three have... :9

Nor would an attack on any nation be "OK"

If you were a Virginian, and the United States invaded and burned your cities, killed your men, imprisoned your leaders, raped your women and destroyed your infrastructure, you would you think it OK to attack the Yankees?

I don't like that it is happening, but the response is not unexpected. Anyone would do the same. In this country there are people who hold a grudge for the same shit from a hundred and fifty years ago.

"If my house was damaged, a family member killed, I had lost my job, had no running
water, and no electricity all of which were not problems before the Americans how would
I feel now?"

Afer we put you through all that you would not consider an attack on the US OK?
I find that very very very hard to believe.

then I would support fighting back but just to go off and attack another country is immoral.

In that case, then probably I would be just fine with it. Yet within every society, as just the few opinions expressed here have indicated, there are those who understand the emotional need for retribution and vengeance, and those who would refrain from it.

Recent polls indicate that 50 percent of Iraqis now believe attacks on our troops are acceptable, maybe even commendable. Does that mean 50 percent of Iraqis believe an attack on the United States itself is acceptable? Probably not.

Good question, Botany. BTW, bush, cheney, et al., of course they have no shame. :(

Why would anyone expect the Iraqis to impose a higher standard of morals on themselves?

Unless of course one is racist...

that somewhere in this fucked up world, a 'people' would take a truly 'courageous' stand-
I could never 'blame' the oppressed from wanting or at least not abhoring an attack against those who are now oppressing them. But I can hope (for them) that they not sink to the level we have 'chosen' to stoop to.

Gandhi, MLKjr. and Jesus, may have given their lives for their ideals, but what would be the point of living, if you compromise 'who' you are in the process???-

My 'base' instinct would be "ha! how's it feel! Huh???" and then, (I sincerly hope) my conscience would kick in. Violence in response to violence is a cycle that can only be stopped when one 'party' says, "enough!" it would take great wisdom, self-control, and courage to 'be' that party.

No dice...if you can't convince the 'war criminal' doing it to stop doing it, then you can't expect the Iraqis people who:

1) don't have a system of 'checks and balances'
2) haven't signed international agreements (which at the heart have the principles you feel you need to lecture on)
3) don't have the world's largest economy
4) doesn't have nuclear weapons
5) and have never felt the need to kill off 100,000+ Americans simply because they want the oil for their fuckin' cars...

Guess what...they have a RIGHT to attack America and NO matter how many times you post 'Gandhi, MLKjr. and Jesus' (note only one is sorta American depending on who you talk to) gibberish as a fig leaf to comically avoid a moral and legal stance.

How about a simpler moral lesson: All people are created equal...live with it

my post entirely- Do they have a 'right'??? ABSOfuckinLUTELY-

Can I blame THEM??? ABSOLUTELY NOT.

Point being, somewhere, somehow the only way to stop the circle is for someone to 'opt' out-
Do THEY have to be the ones? Hell no- but someone does.

I completely agree ALL people are equal- we don't treat each other that way- and i can't control others, (without killing or oppressing them) i can't control my fuckin government- i can only control myself, and even that, much of the time, is a bigger challenge than i'm up for.

I am NOT saying they don't have EVERY right to hit back- it is 'instinctual'- I'm saying we will never have peace, until each one of us, learns to control ourselves- AND treat each other as if they were us-

and i don't see that day comin in my lifetime.
Doesn't mean *I* can't desire to reach for it- to encourage it- to practice it as much as possible-
Also doesn't mean i'm gonna succeed.

peace-
we are on the same wave-length, but it is not flatlined.

blu

If I offended you...but invoking the ideals of Ghandi, MLK or Jebus isn't really the point here.

Yeah your right...there is a general program being undertaken by the Western Right to demonize the Muslim world and people in the west should cognizant of kneejerk reactions that enable the truly evil to expand war.

Point taken...but it seems weak to point to those three guys for moral guidance, when there is a whole host of 'things' we can invoke like self-preservation, social justice, international law.

Individual coping strategies are fine, but a moral collective response is also needed and 'empathy' with the oppressed as the Oppressed was as strong a message from those three guys, as their pacifist teachings.

I think more so, as pacifism, is rather outmoded in societies where the 'monopoly of violence' is State sanctioned and done on our behalf. We are mandated to be 'law abiding'. Pacifism becomes simply collaboration at a certain point. As Ghandi discussed it, pacifism is not a moral virtue if it is simply done out of political expediency. That's cowardice according to Ghandi.

continue to kill to achieve peace- and NO, you are totally correct when you say expecting them to be the 'stand up guy' when they are indeed the most oppressed isn't fair.

I DO believe we have to 'fight' violence as a solution to ANYTHING- or resign ourselves to mutual destruction- And to be quite honest, I'd sooner see this entire world go up in flames than continue on suffering and abusing and murdering each other for more and more centuries.

If we don't come up with a way to live with each other in peace, not necessiairly in agreement- but without desireing to 'dominate' each other, then eventually, there would be one 'bully' left- That person might be the 'fittest' (killing machine)- but what will that earn anyone?.

Maybe this sounds too idealistic and simplistic to you- That is understandable, but i'm on my way out of this world, leaving behind 2 young sons, whom i love very much, and desiring that somehow, believing that they, or perhaps their great great grandchildren might live in a world where war was recognized as the abyssmal failure it is, is something I can't not dream of, wish for, and encourage- else I'd be tempted to cash my ticket in today-....

Non-violence doesn't mean inaction- and maybe i've not acknowledged my understanding of that-

It also doesn't mean civil disobedience isn't necessiary- or even more than that, essential-

Peace-
blu

and like I always say, if folks like you were running the world, then it would be Paradise and guys like me would just STFU ;-)

But don't be SO fatalistic...it will get worst, but it will get better when our species is tamed.

Notice all the other non-human elements of the world seem to play nicely together!! We're jerks...

I am a hard-core pacifist, so my instinct is 'No'. However, if I had lived through this death and destruction on the receiving end, I may feel very different, I don't know. It's impossible for me to truly imagine how I would react.

I have thought about this issue quite a lot in the last few years, and I still don't know.

after putting myself in that situation, is very human nature.

that some of the US troops in Iraq believe that they're there to avenge 9/11:

"The biggest question I have now is how you can make a war on an entire country when a certain group from that country is practising terrorism against you. It's as if a gang from New York went to Iraq and blew some stuff up and Iraq started a war against us because of that."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0202-07.htm

So, there are prob Iraqis who would like to avenge "Shock and Awe".

:sarcasm:


From the WaPo last month:

Iraq has replaced Afghanistan as the training ground for the next generation of "professionalized" terrorists, according to a report released yesterday by the National Intelligence Council, the CIA director's think tank.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7460-2005Jan13.html

no brainer

and would wish for revenge. I would feel the same way if some single person murdered my family. But I don't believe in the death penalty on a small scale or on a grand scale. War is pretty much the death penalty on a grand scale.

Mz Pip
:dem:

Slaughtering civilians is wrong. Furthermore--and more importantly--it is a perversion of Islam. That does not change no matter how angry you are.

Welcome to DU! :toast:

Peace!

Australian, or whatever, don't care about the politics of death and destruction. Nor, do they care about capitalism, communism, free markets, trade imbalances, etc. They care about raising their families, having enough to eat, being able to educate the offspring, safety, comfort, stability, etc.
We are the invaders, we've destroyed and taken their lives, and homes and family, and their money. We are the evil empire, and eventually we will pay for our crimes. If I was Iraqi I would do just about anything I could to kill the invaders.

Only the ones we have absolutely devastated---killed their families, taken away all hope, driven into depression, deep despair--are going to strike out at us. I feel bad for the suicide bombers, because they had to endure a lot before they reached that point. The rest of the Iraqis are just hanging on waiting for it to get better.

as slow suicide. Days like today remind me of that- we are living, struggling, fighting, screaming, writing, calling, marching, and working in every way we can to avoid what this country is falling into, but the reality that 'we' may have done it all for naught, is a kind of slow suicide.

Like staying in an abusive marriage, and believeing 'I can be 'good' enough' or 'he really means he's sorry this time'.-

Sorry, feeling kind of jaded right now.
Physically and mentally.

Not to peace-loving Amerika.

be justified given our behavior.

I just got slammed for saying I would understand, and not condemn someone for desiring revenge- but that revenge, the hit back because you were hit circle will never end, unless, and until someone says 'enough'-

I can't 'judge' anyone for not being the one to say STOP while in the 'my turn to hit back' position- but I can't say that someday, somehow, someone MUST- and I would love to believe I could make that choice. I admire those who have- even at the cost of their lives.

And I know I'm gonna get torched for this, but to be quite honest, I can 'see' how those who flew the planes on 9/11 felt a sort of 'justification' in what they were doing. They didn't do anything but sow more hate, but I understand the frustration, and outrage at having been 'used' by the superpowers of this world, and feeling like they were only 'giving back' some of what has been dealt to the smaller nations of this planet, by the most wealthy, greedy, and powerful-
Doesn't excuse it- but it does help to 'make some sense' out of the chaos.- and cause me, personally to look a lot closer at how the actions of our government, are NOT as 'noble' 'charitable' or 'moral' as I ignorantly believed them to be.

We are all citizens of this planet- we need to remember that.

Uncle Sam is KILLING Iraqi CHILDREN!
Wss the U.S. entry into WWII mere "revenge"? As for the relative sizes of Iraq and the U.S., the topic WAS a hypothetical.

yet many Americans thought attacking Iraq was OK. So I assume that Iraqis would have little sympathy if the U.S. were attacked.