I Can Barely Stand My Friends Right Now.

When you have democrats drinking the kool-aid it really drives me nuts.

I was on a rant with a friend about how over the top this administration has become and that if a democrat had tried even a tenth of what Bush is doing he would be impeached.

My friend's reponse was impeachment is a word that being overused today. She said she thought it was stupid that people brought up that word everytime they have a disagreement with the president.

Words cannot convey the anger that rose up in me. I don't even want to talk to her again. If a repub had said this it wouldn't have bothered me. My friend is not a stupid person mind you, but I guess fear trumps everything. There seem to be lots of people who don't care what the guy does so long as he's "protecting us."

The last time I had a falling out with her is before the war when she declared to me one day, "I think we gotta go", meaning she had decided that it was right to go ahead and invade Iraq.

Of course, I heard no "okay I was wrong, you were right" when no wmds turned up. I would have thought she would have been angry at Bush for making a fool out of her.

With democrats like this it's no wonder we can't get anywhere. The rest of my friends have their heads in the sand. They'd rather talk about something else.

My wife said something similar the other day, and I almost went nuts.

I tried to get one a couple of years ago for Dept of Motor Vehicle Safety that said: IH8GOP. They denied me. I don't see why :shrug:

If you see someone in a silver Taurus station wagon honking at you, that'll be me. And of course, my DemocraticUnderground.com bumper sticker is on my car.

Impeachment has only been done twice in our entire history - Nixon would have been impeached, but resigned first. That's hardly everytime we have a disagreement with the administration.

came up and even then it was really whispered. It made me so angry I wanted to tear my head off.

I was telling her during my rant how frustrated it was that people didn't understand financial scandals, but put some semen on a dress...

What really gets my goat is that she was so pissed at Clinton for getting his knob polished but it's okay for Bush to lie us into a war, order torture, detain people without charges, spy on americans without warrants, cut benefits for the poor, cut taxes for the rich, etc. etc.

The whole point of the Clinton impeachment was to insulate Repubs
from any future threat of impeachment by making the process a
laughing stock. And if they *HAD* managed to bounce Slick Willie
on account of his free willie, it would have been gravy.

In the process, they got Dems to willingly throw out the
Special Persecutor (sic) law, knowing that they would be
taking power in 2000 and into the foreseeable future.

Tesha

I cant stand when I see smart people pulled in by the lies

Skipped grades and all that. Graduated from college at age 16 and all that shit. She's a fifty-four year old criminal trial defense attorney.

and it was stupid and over top. i bet your friend doesnt realize all the laws broke. harsh, to the point. breaking law nsa. outed a cia agent, treason. stole money from treasury. stole election. these are powerful adn strong enough to warrant impeach. but i also understand why those that arent in the mist of it day in and day out..... all day long, dont see. and why they onclude like your friend. she needs to see the impeachment hearings, and then i bet she will support as many will. but we gotta get it to impeach first. where dems are having the tough time, getting info out, getting to televised hearings.

and on many issues here, you'd swear there are infiltrators but with your perspective, I must consider the rich likelihood that this is truly how many many Democrats are
Depressing.

get between you and a friend. Really, when you think about it... how unimportant to your daily interaction is impeachment? Something you will see on TV ...

Now, before anyone starts pulling the chains on the flame thrower, I'm not saying impeachment wouldn't impact us and I'm not saying world events are not important. I'm saying that they are in many ways an abstract that has little bearing on our day-to-day lives. And they are not worth dissolving a friendship over. Find something you guys agree with and don't talk politics.

I have a lot of colleagues of the RW persuasion. We talk a lot about recipes, kids, grandchildren, and the weather.

you continue tilting at your impeachment windmill. it ain't gonna happen (remember, you need to prove that BUSH broke the law, not his aides, not his dad, not his wife, not Karl, BUSH himself) I have seen no evidence that Bush himself has broken any laws, have you?

entertained the hope that Bush would be impeached. It won't bother me that he wont be impeached. I know the politics of the situation. But don't try to tell me he doesn't deserve to be impeached. That's he's doing nothing wrong and that we just have a "disagreement" with the president.

It's the attitude.

it's important to remember that. in order to be impeachable, it has to be a criminal offense, committed directly by the President that rises to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors. it's a hard case to make.

For instance, cheating on your wife is wrong, but it's not illegal. getting a blow job from an intern is wrong, but not illegal.

Karl Rove and Dick Cheney could be sacrificing virgins in the oval office and eating their livers, and unless you can prove that Bush either ordered it or obstructed an investigation into it, you can't impeach him. Nixon was on the verge of impeachment for obstruction of justice, not the breakin at the watergate.

and the American people about Saddams military programs and capabilities.

And again, when he admitted illegally wire tapping Americans.

Or are you of the belief that "If the President does it, it's not illegal?"

Impeachment is a political process, not a judicial process. It is not subject to the rules of evidence, or to even enough evidence to determine culpability "beyond a reasonable doubt.

In fact, it really requires no proof at all, simply the votes in congress to achieve it.

everone does that. There is no legal obligation to tell the truth in the SOTU. none. I will, of course, withdraw that when you cite the legal code obligating the President to tell 'the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth' in a SOTU.

First off, there is no evidence that the wiretapping actually occured. or which Americans were the victims, or even the actual legality of it (I think it's probably illegal, but it's actually not that clear when it's an international conversation)

And impeachment is a legal process. well, quasi-legal/political. It is not a tool to be used to replace an unpopular leader.

"everyone does that" - i've been hearing that excuse before...

you're telling me that you can find a SOTU given since WWII that contains the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth? find it, paste the whole text here. come on, it should be easy.

People tell small lies all the time, small lies are mostly harmless. Big Lies however affect the lives of millions.

I doubt there are many SOTUs that contain lies as big as the "significant quantities of uranium".

there is no legal standard of proof in a state of the union address. sorry.

Congress.

I guess the founding fathers never factored in your argument, or they would have required "an honest" assesment of the State of the Union.

They probably figured a lying assessment was just as good. though.

the question about his impeachment is this: Is he unfit for office - the answer is clearly he is totally unfit for office, therefore he is impeachable.

He doesn't have to be a criminal, although he is, he can be impeached for incompetence and abuse of his power.

save for medical reasons. unless, of course, you have some sort of constitutional citation proving different? High Crimes and Misdemeanors. that's the standard. meet it, and we'll talk.

rather than anything to do with the health problems of 'Crashcart' Cheney.

The constitution states that removal from office precedes any trial for High Crimes or Misdemeanors and in fact HC&Ms are not the only reason that may be construed as a necessary condition for impeachment. The impeachment (i.e. removal from office) is solely in the power of congress.

I read the articles specifically regarding impeachment and in my considered opinion the President can be impeached for incompetence, corruption or criminalality. My reading of it is this, high crimes and misdemeanours are given as examples of impeachable offences and are in no way exhaustive.

Connecting Iraq to 9-11?

Lying to justify an illegal invasion?

That's just the most obvious thing. I think there's plenty of evidence.

I think there are SOME people who do overuse the call for impeachment.

It's almost a "Boy who cried wolf" thing. Now that it completely justified, the beat of the drum can sound a little obnoxious. Many are just tired of all the polarization.

Impeaching two presidents in a row is going to be hard to swallow for some. Of course, there was never any reason to impeach Clinton, but it still happened.

.

complex.

Most people are..

If they KNEW, they would want him not only impeached, but prosecuted.

Don't let this person get you down. She probably gleans her news from the MSM, and thinks that makes her informed.

Try your best to educate her. If she doesn't want to talk about it, I would simply say - 'What is going on now with this President is one of the most serious threats this democracy has ever faced, we all need to make sure that we educate ourselves. We must protest and demand accountability for criminal action. It is a responsibility we all have. Give her some resources and reading. Tell her ONE specific thing that concerns you.

If she dismisses you or tries to argue points that have no basis in fact - just let it go. And, reconsider the type of people you surround yourself with.

Life is better that way.

I mean,if the friend is a bigot or otherwise disgusting person in their heart, how can you associate with them?

I mostly agree, though, that there are a lot of people in my life who do not share my exact political views and are still good people.

Bigotry is not necessarily political in origin.

I guess if it is linked to their political beliefs, then it is, but of course it can exist easilyy outside of the political sphere.

I'm fortunate that I work out of a home office and have the luxury to listen to CSPAN, stream AAR and have cable news on in the background during my work day. Along with DU here - I'm pretty informed about everything that is going on and take the time to investigate that which I don't understand. It's not like I have a boss over my head inhibiting me from doing this.

Most people, however, don't have this luxury. They work at an office away from TV, radio and the internet. They come home and have to deal with their families and other chores, etc. And quite frankly - they are so wrapped up in all of that - all they might be able to catch is the network nightly news or a quick newspaper.

I've seen this with many of my friends. They are so wrapped up in their individual lives that they have no time for politics and it is not a priority. Many say - there's nothing I can do about it even if I cared.

I've gotten very distant with many of my friends because I can't even hold a decent conversation with them to explore the issues. They know very little about V. Plame, spygate, Abramoff, etc, etc, etc. They hear only what they might catch from some talking head or RW * apologist - because 90% of whats reported is this.

I've gotten to a point that I don't even want to talk to some of them because it sickens me that they are so misinformed, distracted and disinterested. Some label me a conspiracy nut or a doomsayer and I'm beginning to resent that. My only solace is in AAR and DU where at least I'm with my own.

Unfortunately - there are not many of us - or - at least not as many as we may need to change things.

I'm sure that *CO and Rove (whom say they don't listen to polls) have done many focus groups and know that this is the state of our countries people. Either they are too busy,too uneducated to understand, have short attention spans or just plain don't care.

As such *CO and Rove take advantage of this and along with the Corporate Controlled MSM - use it against us.

Case in point was yesterday's surveillance hearings. Very little coverage on regular or cable TV. One-sided. And a complete whitewash.

What irks me the most is that I have this vision of Gonzo going back to an elegantly carpeted wood paneled room where *, Cheney, Rove are sitting sipping on a cocktail and smoking cigars and congratulating each other as to how they pulled another fast one on the 'merikun people.

Sometimes I wish I can go to sleep and wake up one of them (invasion of the body snatchers reference). It would be easier. I'm obsessing so much about what is happening to this country that I am losing sleep and getting sick over it. I'm sure some of my friends are avoiding me as well - because they think I've gone over the edge and all I talk about is what this administration is doing to us.

:hug:

I'd go nuts without you guys.

. . .that the guy she is counting on protecting her is the one who was IN CHARGE ON 9/11!
The Professor

through a bad neighborhood--and she brought up the hate crime that happened a couple of towns over (the gay bar attack in New Bedford, MA--we both used to live there) and when I said, "I can't understand how anyone could think like that, what would make someone do such a thing?"

She went off on a whole thing about how the attacker probably had a bad experience with a person. (To her credit, she also said he must be deranged.)

BUT, then this moved into a discussion about black people, and that's where it got squirrelly... She was saying that she didn't understand why black people were so (her word, not mine) "ghetto" and when I tried to explain the social effects of 400 years of racism and slavery on the present day, she shut down completely...

It really upset me, not enough to stop being her friend, because I know that she is a genuinely good person and just doesn't study history and politics the way I do, but it still made me uncomfortable...

That's the crux of the matter. She doesn't support core Democratic principles. I wouldn't waste time trying to convince her. She's so pre-1776.

think that's just to stick it to her conservative family.

I wasn't trying to convince her of anything. Just making conversation and it came out.

Our rat worm party will follow, eventually.

Your friend is full of it. Bush definitely deserves to be impeached, & I don't think that a President should be impeached every time I disagree with him. I never said that Reagan should be impeached, even though I disagreed with him on a lot of things. Bush has lied & broken laws over & over again. And he doesn't feel sorry for it at all. His behavior is threatening the future of my country. If that isn't grounds for impeachment, I don't know what is.

Tammy

amerikan dream. True, it's probably not the one she envisions, but rest assured that we are hurtling toward a dream that those who matter have (nearly) realized. What really amazes me is that there is no secret, it's all out there in print and reproduced cyberspace for anyone to see. Have you directed any of your friends to the PNAC site (http://www.newamericancentury.org/)?
BTW, you stated, "My friend is not a stupid person mind you", yes she is. :banghead:

Some people can negotiate social relationships with others who do not share their value systems. I've been able to maintain such relationships before. But I expect my friends to have more than a passing familiarity with reality.

I tell them that they can't believe the news anymore because it's just a commercial for the White House. But when I give them sources on the internet and print media that they should be reading, they tell me they really don't have time, and they really don't, from working hard and long hours. On the weekends they work even harder to catch up so that they can go to work again on Monday.

As long as they aren't being affected directly, it isn't going to hit them. There is some grumbling about their health insurance and their home mortgage. So maybe it's a beginning. When they actually are pissed about something, I dig up what news articles I can about the situation and print them out for them to read. It is having a small effect.