I'm from Ohio.... And I am glad that Hackett withdrew....

He wasn't ready folks...

Politics is about survival....

And if he couldn't take the heat before the primary....

What makes you think he can take it thru November...

I am working a statewide campaign for Supreme Court...

They guy I am backing was promised support since last year...

Has been all over the state while still serving as a judge...

Well, that all evaporated last week when the party started to back another guy...

We didn't cut and run...

We resolved to keep fighting and we know we are going to win because we are backing the right candidate....

So, my point is this...

Politics is a Marathon... Not a sprint... Not everyone is going to like or support you... As soon as you open your mouth you will make enemies... People will hate you just because... It's a profession based on people and carries all the foibles, mishaps and broken hearts and promises that dealing with people always has and always will carry with it...

So buck up... It's not the end of the world...

Personally, I thought Hackett made a mistake jumping to the Senate so quickly and I thought Brown may have initially backed out of the race a little too soon....

Mistakes were made... Let's get on with it....

Because in the long run, I want a democrat representing me in the Senate...

And right now.... That democrat is Sherrod Brown....

Support him...

Hate him...

But People...

Get over it....

It's Hackett that quit....

his donors and asked they stop their financial support. Is that true?

I admit I don't know the intimate details, but didn't Brown change his mind about running. At first he wasn't going to run?

Or am I imagining that story? What exactly made him change his mind?



http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/10/25/iraq_veteran_enters_senate_race/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+National+News

if you assume a bunch of things that aren't the reality.

For one thing, you assume that personal loyalty has to trump Party loyalty in individual promises.
Then you want people who pledge money to also put personal loyalty above Party loyalty.
There's also the assumption that Hackett had a better chance of beating DeWine than Brown does.
And then there's a no-renegotiating-with-Hackett presumption.

These aren't rules enforced anywhere else in the Democratic Party- in fact, they're technically Right winger rules.

Markos Zuniga has put up a long explanation on dKos on why he backs Brown over Hackett. Turns out, Brown was a major force behind Hackett's success last year, Brown did get into the Senate race first, and you don't have to assume corruption or blackmail or coercion to understand why the major donors went over to Brown- and that it may well have been in the best interests of everyone involved. Even if Hackett was slow to accept it, and his supporters slower.

I would say that Hackett's ability to cross over party lines and get republican votes what the reason he was successful.

Brown didn't have anything to do with Hackett's ability to raise 60,000 in 1 day... through grassroots.. when his target was 30,000. Brown didn't have anything to do with Hackett's likability, nor his stance on issues that won him republican supporters (guns, it's always about their guns) Brown didn't have anything to do with Hackett's fire and fight which is missing from this party.

The reason he was successful in getting votes from both parties, he fought and said what meant and meant what he said. He didn't wavier, he didn't flinch, he was willing to call it like it was even if it were ugly. People trusted him to look after their best interest, not those who look after their own (like career politicians). People related to him! PEOPLE not party! Hackett was the reason Hackett was so successful, Brown merely attached his name to it.


Either way you slice it, the voters should of decided, not the party or the "think tanks". A choice taken from Ohio, that is just wrong.

Does the Democratic leadership fear the influx of new blood into the party?

That's what happens in politics....

I've been in Ohio politics on and off for 30 years...

That's what happens...

Hackett could have stayed in cause I am sure that if he won the primary, the party machine would have gotten behind him...

What was he thinking....

Brown has been a strong member of the democratic party here in Ohio for decades... DECADES.... Did Hackett really think people from the state would turn their backs on Sherrod....

If Hackett's supporters wanted to give money to him, they would have kept on doing it.

What power do Ohio Dems have to stop them? None.

This is a bullshit story concocted by Hackett's campaign to make him look like a hero for pulling out whe he knew he was going to lose the primary.

Where'd anybody get the contact info for his thousands of donors, do you suppose?

it made it sound like Hackett's campaign depended on a small group of big donors. Maybe that's just the reality, that all campaigns depend on those big donors. Then those donors are the ones who decide, more than the Party leadership.

...that a "come to Jesus" meeting with Reid and Schumer can go a long way towards discouraging the new blood from transforming the Democratic Party and making it more appealing to those who are growing more dissatisfied with the Bush administration.

They would have come to him.....

Brown said he wouldn't have run but than after Hackett announced he turned around and ran.

Brown only got into the race when Hackett failed to announce he was running. Hackett sat around all summer and didn't do anything. Someone had to get into the race.

isn't afraid of Schumer or anyone else. He got out of the race because he was losing, period.

i sent hackett money. and i hear good things about brown. not going to be hard to support him

he had every right to run in the primary and chose not to. It's wierd that everybody's bitching because the more centrist canidate backed out in favor of a leftie with better credentials. :wtf:

Sure it's nice to give the party structure the finger from time to time, but every now and then they make a good decision and we do ourselves no favors by pitching a fit when they do.

(and the general level of social conservatism and prudishness in the farmier areas) that's probably not a bad thing. What makes DU love you isn't always what it takes to get elected.

It's one of the most rough and tumble states.....

You have to survive....

the loudest here and now are not necessarily Democrats. To put it in the nicest possible way. And don't forget that this is the time of night when the Pubbie think tank interns show up around here.

:hi:

Senate here in New York.

And if the national leadership contacted Hacketts supporters and pressured them to dry up the spigots, then Hackett was well justified in telling the party to F*#( Off.

And those who think the "democratic leadership" is made up of the most qualified analysts of political reality, should sit down and look at what has happened in this country over the last decade or so.

I'm not a GOPuke and I 've been in politics since RFK ran for the Senate here in New York.

And your point is...?

And if the national leadership contacted Hackett's supporters and pressured them to dry up the spigots, then Hackett was well justified in telling the party to F*#( Off.

I'm all for free speech. But what do you imagine the conversations between Reid, Schumer, and these major donors were like? "Seriously, you have to stop giving money to Hackett and back this loser Brown"????

And those who think the "democratic leadership" is made up of the most qualified analysts of political reality, should sit down and look at what has happened in this country over the last decade or so.

I don't understand people who refuse to admit that Democrats have been the minority Party since at least 1980. The delusion of majority really leads into silly selfhatreds and counterproductive actions. Minority parties have very little real say in what happens or why; their role is to protect the rights of the minority they represent as best they can, and that's all that's within their power. The swing vote has been or leaned conservative since at least 1980- in 2004 that finally began to lessen.

and this is a somehow a problem? A little consistency would be nice. Stop bashing Brown if you know nothing about him.



:eyes:

There are many people from other states who don't really know what's going on in
your state.
I recognize Hackett., not Brown.
Time will tell.
Now it's bedtime.:boring:

is true that party leaders were calling his donors to tell them not to give to him.

That's different from just wilting from competition. It could be deciding, this is a team I don't want to be on, if they're going to do this to me.

Man, you gotta remember that these people owe a lot to Sherrod... He's been there for them for years and years....

It wasn't too hard to convince, if that is what really happened, potential supporters away...

Hackett's response baffles me. It makes him sound like a bitter man, which I don't think he is. I think he has a lot of heart and courage. I am concerned that his words will be used against him in the future, against other Democratic candidates in this upcoming election.

I donated to his campaign, and I am neither sad nor angry about the outcome. A bit bewildered, perhaps, and I am waiting to find out all the facts, or at least as many as possible. Something just doesn't add up.

behind the scenes all the time? This Casablanca line is running through my head - "I'm shocked, shocked to find there is gambling going on here".

I wish he would run for Schmidt's seat.

The important thing is for the Democrats to win back control of Congress.

That's the part that people here don't really see....

HE was forced into a situation by Democratic Leaders that would cause him to break his WORD TO OTHER DEMOCRATS if he stayed in the races for a seat in the House.

That is not quitting.

from running for Supreme Court...

And he is having none of it...

Whose got the bigger balls...

Cause in the end.... It take balls to survive in politics....

asking them not to support him?

He knows it takes party support to get a seat. When was the last first time politician running as an independent who got a seat in the Senate? Oh right, NEVER.

But they won't be. They're too busy losing EVERY POLITICAL FIGHT POSSIBLE IN THE SENATE.

An unbroken record of losses.

Oh, and here's Shumers instinct politically. Finds out that NYC's port will be run by a company owned by the Dubai government (the one that banked and housed the 911 crew). He says we have to be "very careful." This is everything wrong with our party, everything. "Very careful" what, the guy never travels to NYC. Crazy shit man, can't believe it.

a job you're not qualified for?

We have a President who isn't qualified. I'd sorta rather our Dems make sure they are.

And I agree that if Hackett couldn't say "Damn the torpedos, full steam ahead" then maybe he wasn't tough enough. And Brown isn't Satan merely by virtue of having opposed someone that many folks here liked. He is a solid progressive.

Does service to one's country mean you leapfrog to the front regardless of your prior experience? Do people think any shmoe off the street can be a Senator?

Give Ohioans a little more credit. Just because someone calls us and tells us not to support someone doesn't mean we listen. In 2003, I received similar calls telling me that I shouldn't be backing Kerry. My response? Thank you, but I'm support the candidate I believe is best. True Hackett supporter wouldn't give up because someone called.

Also, the state party is still raw from an unpleasant election for ODP Chair. For many Party loyalists, a call from ODP would cause them to do just the opposite.

Perhaps we should be happy that the Progressive candidate is still in the race.

candidates who will pass the new petition circulation requirements...

Anyway, ODP doesn't have the time or the money to get involved with all that....

Have they ever heard of planning or discussing these things before candidates sign up?

They forced him out to give Brown the entire floor. I understand the reason, but I disagree with the way they jerked him around and made him look foolish.

It was his choice to leave the race.....

Im East Central area, near Youngstown.

DK is my Congressman....

are to be accepted??? That's what I like about Hackett, he's a man of honor. There's nothing honorable about sneaking behind someone's back and undermining them.

I like the fact that while some people think that 'politics as usual' is okay, Hackett was decent enough to be appalled by it. I am appalled by it and I do NOT want to be told that because this is how it was always done, it's 'okay'! No, it's NOT.

If Brown isn't as disgusted as Hackett is, then he's not worth supporting, imo. That shows he has been corrupted, imo. Sorry, maybe that's naive, but we could use a little 'naive' in politics. I call it honest. Why didn't they just talk to him, and Brown? Why the dirty tricks? It's sickening ~ and even more sickening that it's apparently expected. I thought we were trying to change this kind of thing ~ guess I was wrong.

No offense...

But politics is a contact sport...

A lot is at stake...

Look, I like Hackett....

But he quit....

Brown did what any politician would do....

Hackett was blindsided and I have to believe, a little bit naive to think that he was going to be welcomed with a rose parade and that everyone was going to love him....

I'm sick to death of losing but when you act like bumblers, people notice.

Total bull shit.

Hackett could have stayed in.

without ganging up on him.

People take sides... They fight to get their guy or gal in...

That's what the reality is...

I've seen it up close...

I had my heart ripped out from me when I knew I was the better candidate....

But I dusted myself off....

And stayed in the game....

I have worked countless campaigns, both paid and volunteer positions, locally and in DC. I know what it feels like to be on the receiving end of a dirty campaign, and what kind of person it takes to run such a campaign. Thankfully, I've never worked for a candidate who ran a smear campaign, and the party didn't join in to run one either since my people have coincidentally been unchallenged in the primaries. The people who pull this kind of crap are the ones who should be kicked out of politics for good, kind of like athletes are banned from sports for doping. Their only mission is to win, principles be damned, and they don't care what kind of scars they leave behind following the campaign. They don't really always care about the Dem party, as their allegiance usually only stays with us so long as the money is flowing to them from the campaigns. And they'e certainly not the ones who should be picking our candidates, by whatever means necessary.

You sound like you dislike Hackett, and you're of course entitled to whatever opinion you may have of these 2 men. But please don't try to disguise that antipathy as arguments that this is simply politics as usual.

the right is a little better at it, since they've been winning for 14 years now.

I'm stunned at the attitude that thinks we, who have criticized the right, are now supposed to turn a blind eye to the same Tom Delay tactics in this party.

I'm wondering if this is a ploy to divide Democrats, and thus retain the seat for a Republican in Ohio ~ I can't believe any true Democrat would so lightly brush this aside.

If Brown needed to participate in this, he can't be very confident he can even win a Dem primary, so how can he expect to beat a Republican? Bad as this is, the Repubs are even better at dirty tricks and smear ~ Brown won't stand a chance ....

I notice the use of the words 'quit' etc. in an attempt to paint a man who certainly has never quit before, as a 'loser'. Strange ~ again the sort of thing I would expect the Republicans to do. I am totally losing faith that the Democrats will ever win an election. I don't think they want to. Maybe it is all one big party after all, as many have suspected for quite a while now.

I have no problem using right wing tactics in races- so long as they are used on republicans. But doing to it to a fellow Dem (or even a fellow progressive)? Nope, that should be unthinkable.


Yes, quit and its synonyms have been thrown around rather, er, liberally tonight.

To have done so to a fellow Democrat who has done nothing at all to deserve it, should absolutely be unthinkable. I am truly saddened and shocked by this. What a betrayal.

All I really know is he is good with one liners...

I saw him at a statewide gathering of grassroots folks and he didn't come off very well...

I chalked it up to inexperience....

Listen, I have seen people like Hackett come and go over the last thirty years...

HE caught lightning in a bottle down there in Southern Ohio...

I just didn't see that lightning there anymore...

I have also seen plenty of candidates stay in the race when everyone else tells them to get out.... He also happens to be a friend of mine... His name is Dennis Kucinich... And I am proud that he is my congressman....

I'm sure there are some, but most people seem to be upset about party machinations and the men in smoke filled rooms making these decisions rather than letting them go to the voters. And that is a valid issue.

Just as was said during the presidential race, if Brown couldn't have beaten some newbie politico like Brown, what makes anyone think he can take on the well oiled machine of the DeWine campaign?


Personally, from what little I've seen of the 2 men, I think either of them would have been a good candidate, and that the voters would have had a tough choice come primary time. Unfortunately, now they have no choice to make since it was once again made by party insiders rather than we the people.

Hackett decided to throw in the towell....

Did Brown work to get him out...

I know he did....

Just as everytime I ran for office, I tried to get my competition out of the race...

That's part of politics....

By the way, I have this bridge for sale if you're interested- real cheap too... :)

the towel. No offense, but I thought we were trying to clean up politics, and you're proposing we not even try?

He is right to quit ~ in order to stay, he would have to become 'one of them' is what you're saying? That's not an option for someone who keeps their word. It's better to get out rather than lose your integrity and honor. There are other ways in which he can serve his country and I'm sure he will find a way to do that, to tell the truth to those in power, not be a mealy mouthed suck up to the likes of this administration. Some people cannot go so far against their principles, just to win. That's NOT winning, imo.

And if Brown worked against him, behind his back, you just convinced me, he's not worthy of support, at least from those of us who care about honesty and integrity.

Attacking Max is dirty...

Swift Boating Kerry is dirty....

Calling in favors is not dirty....

It's what politics is all about....

implying that Hackett is a 'quitter', that he 'caved under pressure', characterizations that were used by the right against Kerry, against Daschle. But at least they came from a source we didn't expect much more from. To see it being used against a fellow Dem. is pretty shocking to me, to be honest ~

I agree with Hackett's decision. Obviously he chose not to be a Republican because he opposed their tactics.

Now, he sees it within the Democratic Party and aimed at a fellow Democrat. Why on earth would he want to participate in that? That is not quitting. That is realizing that you don't win when you compromise your principles.

If only Democrats had used these tactics against the opposition party. We waited for that. But they reserved it for their own, it seems. So disappointing.

At least they, Republicans, don't turn on their own unless they feel betrayed. That's why they win, and I'm afraid, will continue to win with the kind of leadership we have ~

Asking a man to run, watching as that man gives up a very winnable rematch in OH-02, then stabbing him in the back when your "real" candidate decides he wants tp play - that's dirty.

And spare me the "that's politics" line - as Gary Hart said, that is old style politics, and it is disgusting.

Shame on anyone who condones that.

And kudos to Hackett for showing the only bit of class on display in this whole stinking mess - he stayed true to his word.

Unless, of course, one thinks that stabbing the OH-02 Dem candidates in the back by deciding to run against Little Jeannie after promising you wouldn't is "just politics."

I am afraid that your many years in politics has conditioned you to believe that bullshit isn't bullshit if you call it cotton candy.

bring it on...

I never heard Hackett say he was going to run for that house seat.... It seemed to me as if he was in the Senate race without ever mentioning a rematch with Jean...

And in a full fall election, Mr. Hackett would have lost that seat by an even wider margin...

It wiuld be fitting

Hackett is a veteran.

Hackett is a liberal.

Hackett is unapologetic about being a liberal.

Hackett is a fighter.

Hackett took it to the Republican machine in SW Ohio.

Hackett won three rural counties by 60%-40% which border Kentucky!!!!! BORDER KENTUCKY!!!!!

He "lost" by a hair but we all know he won. Read it and weep http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0508/S00186.htm

After being robbed, Hackett was the natural candidate for the Dems.

Reid and Shumer (as much as I like Reid) are political bumblers. They lose every fight. If they say yes, it's time to believe no.

Hackett is a once in a life time candidate. He's a truth teller who gets away with it, thrives on it, is well received for it.

Maybe Reid and Shumer should read the Scoop article and Fitrakis' book and talk to some of you folks. He'd find out that the issue there is not between two qualified and fine candidates, it's about winning when you win...fighting the crooked vote steelers. But noooooo...that would require real work.

Sorry, the Democrats snatched defeat from the jaws of victory one more time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x411034

If he was so sure of himself and so sure he had the message, why did he walk away....

Who wants to have anything to do with people like that.

Finally, they, Shumer and Reid, are clueless on election fraud (or willingly ignoring it). He knows that he'll win but have it stolen again.

When I wrote this, I wasn't sure it was stolen, but later came to realize that it was; particularly when Jean Schmidt outed her self in all her glory going after Murtha.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0508/S00186.htm

Hackett stood tall against the bums, now he gets the bums rush.

All are veterans who refused to go after the election chicanery that defeated them.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0508/S00186.htm

Hackett was getting the best revenge, he was going to get elected to the Senate.

His case was not a slam dunk at the time...and I loved his campaign. But when Jean Schmidt outed herself in the Murtha incident, it was crystal clear...of course it was stolen. Geez.

Hackett was well aware of the BS but never had a chance to take the bums down.

Somebody better speak up besides us. It's a sure thing that the Democratic Party in the Senate, which looks to HAVA co-author Chris Dodd on election reform issues isn't going to do it.

I plan to work for Webb in VA, another veteran who speaks the truth. He won't cut and runn. He's running against Harris Miller in the Democratic primary. Miller is aformer lobbyist for Diebold who led the attacks on election integrity proponents in that capacity. What a total creep.

Webb will crush him!

This is not democracy, where the people pick their leaders. The leaders in the Democratic Party picked and it was based on who had the most money. It is things like this that turn people off of politics instead of getting them involved. I would have sent money to support Hackett. I will not send money now. I was a fan of Reid and I am not anymore. The party needs new leadership. They need someone who will fight and won't back down. Reid won't do that. Paul Hackett would have.

It's called hardball politics....

And if you are going to run for office...

You better be prepared to deal with it....


And you know what....

Sherrod will continue to fight for women, the working people, the environment and every other liberal cause he has whole heartedly embraced over his decades of service....

Sherrod is a fighter....

Just cause he hasn't called Bush an SOB on television doesn't mean he isn't going to continue the fight....

The problem is the way in which the Democratic Party operates, making decisions from the top down just like they always did, and with the same results.

These people are incapable of learning anything, which is why the Democratic Party is failing so miserably.

The issue is not "hardball politics", it is elitist politics.

I know he will... He is in this for us and for himself...

He fight Dewine every inch of the way....

I can gaurentee that.....

think along the lines of machine politics....and if Hackett runs for the House, he will have the backing of the machine for that particular race.

fighter, from what you're saying. He's a sneak, who didn't have the guts to go to Hackett and tell him about the dirty tricks that were going. They could have joined forces, worked together to keep both seats. But no, Brown, from your account, was unable to act alone, as Hackett has been doing, he got together with the betrayers, and joined the ganging up on a really good candidate ~

You are entitled to your opinion, but from reading your posts, you have only made it more obvious, that this man, Brown, is not a leader, he's a follower and willing to compromise integrity just to win. This is what we are tired of. I wound not trust him, how could I, if his own colleaque couldn't?

He will lose support from people, no matter what you say, as a result of this, if he was involved. Otoh, if he was not aware of it, and now learns about it and refuses to participate, my opinion of him would improve and he and Hackett could work it out together ~ both could have won, now I fear, both seats will be lost.

'Honesty is the best policy' ~ although you don't seem to agree and look where dishonesty has taken this country. You say Brown 'will continue to fight'. Only if he can win and he can't do that if he loses the respect of even a percentage of those who were happy with Hackett ~

seen over and over again ~ money is important to win. While I would have given to Paul Hackett to ensure that a Democrat would win, I will not do so for Brown ~ nor will many others ~ I have friends in Ohio also ~ I know how they will feel about this. Brown could have put the country first and stayed in Congress, where you say, he was a good representative.

I would suggest also that treating people as if they were stupid because they want honesty in government, will not win many over ~

I have to wonder now what the 'leadership' will do the rest of the candidates the people are supporting ~ I hope they will learn from this. You cannot trust the leadership of this party, and you say, that's just fine. Well maybe for you, but I reserve the right to expect better ~

:-)

Hackett is a superstar...a guy who can attract people Democats always lose and still maintain the base plus a great deal more.

Thia sucks. Sorry. It's another bad day in a series of bad years where the Democratic leadership "clutches defeat from the jaws of victory."

Brown's been my rep for a while, and I think people should give him a chance - get together - we need to be a team.

And how could you reject Brown when by your own admission you know nothing about him?

What kind of high school game is this where we support the most popular over the most qualified?

That's all I'll say; I'm not even going to read the replies.

But thank you trying to placate through common sense.

K&Rd.

I know my state, and I know deep inside my heart that Sherrod Brown is going to lose. Our best opportunity in years, and we're blowing it because the Ohio Democratic Party is addicted to the status quo, hence, losing.

I'm ashamed at the way the party treated Paul Hackett. The New York Times article makes it more than clear. What a shame it would be to lose a man who inspired so many voters, a breath of fresh air in a time when I've grown disgusted with my party leadership.

The taste in my mouth is as bitter as it must be in Paul's. I hope he's not quitting politics for good, but I think I'll take a hiatus for awhile, too.

I'm so incredibly disappointed.

I have sucked it up and helped people I wouldn't give a dime too before I got into this rackett....

But it is way too important to let one man's decision stop you from trying to make a difference....

... more than a few hours to recover from this crushing blow?

One thing the Brown supporters showed me is that they're quite impatient and insistent. It drove me crazy. It continues to.

Please, learn to reach out to those who can help you, but with grace, and timing. That's my advice to the Brown supporters who need us on his side come November.

But he is already yesterdays news....

There are problems with getting democrats on the ballot...

We have some weak candidates running statewide...

We have a new chairman who is trying to raise money for a party on empty...

There is a primary coming up...

And you diehard status-quo types are going to have to make your case with the likes of me before I open my heart or my wallet again.

That's just a fact. It's why we keep losing; you guys just hang onto power and won't reach out. Know-it-alls. "Been there, seen it all."

I'm sick of it, WC. You know this. I've been screaming it for months. All I hear from you party diehards is the same old crap.

You're not off to a good start by insulting Hackett supporters by insisting that he's "yesterday's news," by the by.

You listen, but you don't respond. You take it, you wait, you crush, and then you demand our loyalty and support.

It's no personal attack, it's meant as an attack on the status quo losing Ohio Democratic Party on a whole.

Tell me to get over it again.

ALl that energy that would have been expended on the Hackett Brown race can now be directed at other state wide races...

We will have a strong ticket going into November, the best I can remember....

That's really all I meant...

Filling deadline is two days away...

That's where I need to be focused...

As one of those, you know, bad party insiders.....

And does one really want an elected official who cuts and runs when things get difficult? Not me.

veteran ex candidate. Even though I understand what you are trying to say. Sounds like something Jean Schmidt or Limbaugh would say.

is why I am not a Republican ~ I am truly shocked to see it here and definitely turned off by it, big time! And wrong though it may to associate Brown with it, that's how I will think of him now, as a patsy who allows his supporters to smear another Democrat ~ so, so sad ~ we have no party ~ :cry:

Hackett took a ton of garbage for his service. Now this....

He enlisted in the reserves.

He served his country.

He did so even though he disagreed with the war.

He ran for office.

He won but had it stolen in all likelihood.

He then chose to run for senate.

He was back stabbed by two leaders who enjoy the comfort and privilege of the Senate "gentleman's club."

NOT ONE MORE WORD ABOUT HACKETT CUTTING AND RUNNING, NOT ONE.

were used on another veteran even down to the same words 'cut and run', by Scmidt is totally heart-breaking ~ I thought we didn't do that ~

If he was truly committed he would have stayed in the race. If his supporters really liked him they would have continued to donate to his campaign.

Liberals can't win in Ohio.. I was born and raised there, and my family still lives there... Hackett lost his race by the skin of his teeth in one of the reddest areas of Ohio.. He proved that he can pull votes from both sides.. Brown can't and won't.. Moderates do not vote for Liberals period.. I can't believe you're "glad" we just handed the GOP another victory. Brown cannot carry Ohio.. Mark my words.

I guess he just wasn't ready to fight for his seat...

Politics is tough...

He is the one who decided to leave...

He is the one who won't be turning in petitions tomorrow...

Harry Ried and Schuemer don't have one vote in Ohio....

Hackett could have stayed in...

But he decided against it....



BTW, Brown can win...

Brown can't carry Ohio. I have nothing against Brown, nothing at all. I think he has an excellent voting record, and I think he makes a great congressman. The problem is not Brown, the problem is the misconceptions of the people of Ohio themselves. For whatever reason the majority of people think that the term "Liberal" is a really bad thing. It will never fly. I just find it sad because Ohio has been devastated in the wake of the pukes. They need help now. Brown isn't going to be able to pull votes from anywhere but the left. Anyone on the fence will go to the right. The majority of people in Ohio will find him too far left of center. Hackett pulled votes from the right, and he had national recognition. Dems would have voted for him because he is a good guy and he has a D after his name. The right would have voted for him because he's a mans man who stood up to * on national TV. Plus Hackett carried a concealed weapons permit and the right thought that was cool. The point is Brown won't be able to pull votes like that, and that's what has to be had to win.

They would no more vote for Hackett or Brown...

Yo forget that it wasn't all that long ago that John Glenn and Howard Metzenbaum were the Senators from Ohio...

Brown can win cause he will get the Union guys who are gun nuts... He will attract them...

There is a huge section of moderates that Hackett could have pulled that Brown can't.. The far right wouldn't vote for Hackett or Brown, and I agree with that.. The issue is the moderates.. Hackett could have pulled the moderates, and Brown can't.. This is a game of chess on a bigger level.. Brown will lose Ohio because he can't pull the moderate votes.. Mark my words.. We will lose Ohio over this, wait and see...

I think he has a better shot than Hackett....

I know this state...

Next time you're out why not head down to Southern Ohio and ask how many pukes that voted for Hackett are going to vote for Brown.. I beg you to do this.. You'd get laughed out of anywhere you went.. I don't know who you are, or where you're from, but you don't know a thing about the moderates of Ohio.. Mark my words friend.. You could not be more wrong in your position, and I'll be here after it's all over to tell you so. With all due respect you don't know what your talking about.. Brown cannot carry Ohio..

I have been SCREAMING this message to anyone who will listen - and several who won't. :)

I went to school in Ohio, lived there for a while after graduation, and my in-laws live in southern Ohio. As you well know there is not a Repub alive down there who voted for Hackett who will vote for Sherrod Brown.

Unless he carries huge numbers up north, he has no prayer.

There are a huge number of moderates in Ohio, and moderates don't vote for Liberals..(Not that I have to tell you!) I'm heartsick over this.. I think the people that were pressuring Hackett really screwed up, and it's going to cost us Ohio.

moderates in Ohio....

All along the Lake Erie Shore....

Brown will carry....

Cuyahoga, Franklin, Lorain, Lucas, Montgomery, Portage, Huron, Summitt, Richland, Mahoning, Delaware

He will win if he carries those counties and gets above 40% most of the rest.....

that Brown will not even come close to carrying Ohio.. I'll even give you terms if you like.. Brown isn't the problem, the problem is the people of Ohio, and their preconceived notions of what Liberal means.. Brown already has the label Liberal firmly attached to his backside.. That will not fly in Ohio.. I'd be willing to bet whatever you want.. Brown will lose, and he will lose big.. You stated yourself that Brown has to get above 40% in the "other areas." Go look at the makeup of those areas.. We are talking 75-25 splits to the puke side in many counties.. There is no way that he can get the numbers he needs.. It will never happen.. Go look at the Ohio county stats.. There is no way that it could happen.. No way.. Go look at the county makeups yourself... Be real.. He has not a snowballs chance.. Hey I think it's great that you are supporting him, but your setting yourself up for failure if you don't at least take a glance at reality.. There is no way he can get the votes he needs.. The numbers just aren't there.. That's why everyone is so upset about this.. Hackett had a shot a carrying the moderates, and actually had a shot at winning.. The numbers are not there for Brown..

Supreme Court... I am working for him

As for Brown... I think he will be just fine....

PM me with your terms...

Brown may be pro-hunting, but he is on record as supporting bans on nonhunting guns, rifles with protruding handgrips, over-10-round guns, etc. etc.

Gore and Kerry both ran on that plank (support hunting, ban nonhunting style rifles and shotguns), and Gore and Kerry both saw 50% of union members who voted in TN and WV pull the lever for W, IIRC. Gore and Edwards lost their own home states, and the gun issue was a big part of it.

There was a lot of cheering for Hackett on the gun forums I frequent, and even the gun-owning repubs were hopeful that Hackett would beat DeWine (who is much hated by gun owners for his attempts to ban nonhunting style guns). Most gunnies consider Brown and DeWine to be a wash on the gun issue, and some will likely stay home rather than vote for someone who would push for more bans.

"Gore and Kerry both saw 50% of union members who voted in TN and WV"
Did they? Funny, those are both right to work states. I'd sure love to see you try to back that up.

"There was a lot of cheering for Hackett on the gun forums I frequent"
Feel free to link to some of it....because I've never seen a gun forum that didn't resemble the Free Republic, only stupider and more vicious.

"Most gunnies consider Brown and DeWine to be a wash on the gun issue, and some will likely stay home"
Oh no! You mean there'll be a shortage of loonies like this at the polls?

http://www.ohioccw.org/

"Blackwell: A Republican for a Change" (snicker)

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=2331

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=2428

http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=2386

ohio is too important right now. Hope Hackett considers another run to get his feet wet.

How can it be that on one hand we are fussing about Lieberman, Hillary et al being DINO's when that's pretty much what you had if you looked closely at Hackett. Yes, I am proud of him for defending our country - but it takes more than that. The man has been a republican his whole life till now and he still is one in many instances, way more conservative than Brown. Get over it lets get together and take our country back.

I agree with you. Its time to move on and win a Senate seat.

Are you finished bashing us Hackett supporters?

We have nothing against Brown, he's a non-entity down here in SW Ohio.

But to treat the rest of us with disdain because we don't agree with you is wrong, it's just wrong.

Please don't tell me to get over it.

All I've been hearing on this board for the past 24 hours is how Paul Hackett is God and the Democratic Party is evil and ANYONE who disagrees is a shill or an idiot or doesn't care about working class America or is immoral or against democracy or is a stupid fucktard and a loser and doesn't want to win elections and on and on and on.

Who's bashing Hackett supporters here? It sounds more like Hackett supporters want to shut all the non-Hackett-ites up.

The bashing has been going on for months.


We're having a lot of difficulty working together as Dems -- hell, the truth is we've been fighting tooth and nail. No wonder we always lose in Ohio.

He was keeping his word to three other Democrats that he wouldn't oppose them in the House seat. He was entirely focused on the Senate race, that is until the Democratic "leadership" decided to go behind his back and pull the rug out from underneath him. He was keeping his word friend, something that is sorely lacking in the Democratic party these days.

that you are happy since you have been trashing him for the last few months....

and btw... I'm from Ohio and I am pissed off that the Dem machine forced him out.

isn't the same thing as trashing him.

Hackett's candidacy was an internet phenomenon. In person, he wasn't doing as well with voters.

such a shock.:sarcasm:

...is the fact that both the Republican & Democratic parties withhold campaign money from candidates if they don't do exactly what they want. I am very disgusted by this. We need some candidates who think for themselves & really stand for something, but all we get are these candidates who, frankly, are dull. This is why I think Hackett should run as an Independent & keep fighting this rotten system. I hope he changes his mind. By dropping out, he is allowing things to continue the way they are.

Tammy

This is pathetic. They pull this shit on a guy who takes no shit and they think they'll get away with it. My wife is marginally involved in politics although she votes and participates at election time. I walk in tonight and she's all over me,

"Can you believe this shit. These people are such idiots. Where do you guys get your leaders. I'm an Independent now."

"Well Happy Valentines to you," I say, "what's this all about."

"I can't believe how utterly chicken shit these guys are. Hackett's a vet, he tells it like it is, and even I know about him!" (She should, she read this.)

Not used to rants from her, I say "What are you talking about? I have no idea."

"About Hackett, I just read about it and heard it on the news. What a bunch of fools."

Well, I agreed with her and we both came to the conclusion that the Senate leaders

treated Alito with respect, a right wing zealot, and treated a hard core Democrat,
Hackett with no respect. But of course, the Senate leadership has fought the good fight
(Ohio electors, Gonzalez, Roberts, Alito, Tax Cuts, Iraq...etc.etc. -- either supported
the Republicans or lost by TKO...qualifies them as masters of the political unverse, NOT.

Note, I have not said a thing about Brown, who I hope wins.

I'm talking about pathetic national leadership, disgraceful.

I'm not an Independent, I'm a Democrat and I'm fucking furious at the stupidity of this
move and the loss after fucking loss. Enough


NEW LEADERS FOR A NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY!

On edit: This smells like DLC, smells like...defeat!

... best collaborator the corporatists RNC will ever, every have.

This is the call-out to the brain-dead that the DLC are fascists or, in Mussolini's preferred meme, "corporatists."

Pure and Simple.

FDR would be having a stroke over this one.


Peace.

And, don't ask me to explain that to you.


Peace.

...they can go no lower, but they will strive to surpass this stupidity.

... effort to support the following:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=424421&mesg_id=424421

Let's rock!


Peace.

Thanks from a Buckeye.

Hackett Margin:

Pike-----63%-37%
Brown---56%-44%
Scioto---63%-35%
and
Adams---52%-48%

Predominantly white, 94% plus, very rural, less than 100 per square mile average,
and conservative, these counties have gone Republican for three decades! We hardly
ever win like this in rural areas, and never with a no bull shit liberal. Hackett
pasted Schmidt. With this rural appeal plus his liberal stand on issues, he is the
perfect candidate for a state like Ohio...a liberal with a carry permit.

These were, of course, the only counties with paper ballots (punch card) and no electronic tabulators. The other two, Hamilton and Clermont (part of Warren) were good old electronic tabulators. Warren County, you may remember, was the county that had the fake "national security alert" when they were counting votes and cleared out the press and observers. The FBI said that the county lied.

His election in OH 2nd was probably stolen. More tomorrow.

Check out the counties:

Thank you.

And, all you DLC Vichy-Repukes ... "We the People ..." are going to end your corporatist crime syndicate.


Peace.

There are 88 counties in Ohio.

If Hackett did so well in SW Ohio, why isn't he running for the OH-2 seat, obviously a greater strength for him?

understandinglife.

I was so hoping Hackett would be my next Senator. But being in in SW Ohio, maybe I felt more close to him than Brown who is way up in Cleveland area. I've read about Brown, he has some very good qualities that will make him a good Senator from Ohio.

HM, being in SW Ohio, we also have a candidate for Ohio Supreme Court. Ohio seems to be becoming a North vs. South for supporting candidates.

And Brown is from Mansfield....

He only moved into the Cleveland Area because they redrew his dictrict that way...

several million times all over the State! Wow, problem solved. That was easy. :sarcasm: