The perfect shutdown to "ok to wiretap, I don't have anything to hide"

On a work related board with about 200 members, one of the loud mouthed Freeps was giving the standard RW "go ahead and spy on me, I don't have anything to hide"

I went to the county website where he lives, looked up his deed and tax bill from the clerks office online info.

Posted to the entire group when he bought the house, how much he put down and how much he borrowed, what the tax bill was for the property and what date it got paid.

Boy was he pissed. O8)

I let him rant and rave for a little while, then asked him if he was really sure he'd like Hillary looking into his life and everything that he had going - credit card purchases, rental cars, how much his phone bill was and who he called - that I'd only looked up a fraction of the information that is online and already part of the public domain.

Then I explained how I could have made up and sent him an official notice from his "mortgage company" telling him that his loan had been sold and had him mail his house payment somewhere else - that in 3 months he'd be in foreclosure with ruined credit - and that was just one quick thing I could think of to really misuse the information that I looked up from 4 states away.

He now agrees that someone needs to be watching the watchers to make sure that it isn't abused.


edit: I wish I could spell

:thumbsup:

who also maintains "he has nothing to hide" if he has a firewall, anti-spy and virus software on his computer

he said yes - didn't want to get personal information stolen

me: gee, sounds like you DO have something to hide...

to hide.

:hi:

They are just spewing forth what they are trained to spew. And if a republican wants to find something, they will. They are evil, hateful human beings. Did John Kerry have to hide the fact that he was a "coward" during Vietnam? No he did not, but thanks to scum swiftboaters, Americans like your coworker thought so because they crafted the information to catch the attention of people who are stupid enough to support republicans. The cannot govern but they can fuck whomever they want to fuck with the truth or without.

Great job with the mortgage and tax info. But why would he be pissed? If he has nothing to hide why would he care that you did what you did?

It's about having complete and unquestioned trust that the authorities never make a mistake. I find it shocking to see that the most vocal of the never-trust-the-government crowd from the nineties have flipped to proclaim their absolute trust in the very same government. Only now, the means for self-defense in the case of mistaken identity are greatly eroded. I don't like where any of this is going...

back then who think it's just fine to give Shrub a pass on illegal activities because he's protecting us from all those terraists? Just like his oath of office told him to?

Hillary Clinton is elected president in 08, they'll be back to not trusting the government again; and the VP, whomever that might be, will be held to the ultimate safety standards when he goes hunting.

"Nothing to hide" means that the time, manpower, and money (OUR money) being spent on surveilling all of us who truly have nothing to hide is being wasted. Why not spend all of those resources locating bad guys instead of making the haystack bigger?

was on Nixon's enemies list. Paul Newman.
It's WHO and HOW the spying criterion is being decided. We need to know WHO the Bushies spyed on. Arab terrorists? Or...Paul Newman.
And what was their rationale for the spying? Did Tim Robbins say something the Bushies didn't like? Or Sean Penn?
Were they on "the list?"
Maybe your librarian or soccer coach.
I think the truth could be very enlightening to all those who say "I have nothing to hide."

I had posted it where a couple hundred folks could see it. Privacy issues can always be tied into someone's personal finances - you don't want anyone looking into your checkbook. It's one place that we're all pretty much on common ground, so I knew he'd react to it.

We've all been raised that money issues are private - it's one place you can almost always grab them by the short hairs and know that you have their attention vs they dismissing some hypothetical.

You were military, everyone pretty much knew from the striped on your sleeve how much you were bringing home, but 6 people in corporate America doing the exact same job can all be getting paid widely various amounts - they hire as cheaply as they can get you, it's why they ask for previous salary info on applications and have all these admonishments about not discussing salary - so the girl in the next cubicle over doesn't find out she's getting $9/hour to to the same thing you get paid $14/hour for.

ever been late on a credit card payment can't be trusted? Or what if they decide Catholics are terrorists (John Kerry is a Catholic after all)? Or what if they decide anyone who shops at CostCo instead of Walmart is suspect? How do these people know that they won't be labeled in someway that suddenly makes them suspect? Or that mistaken identity won't get them into trouble? Or just a simple mistake?

Fucking dumbasses.

If you can't win them with the love of heaven, you have to win them with the fear of hell. Good going.

"I'm doing many positive things in my life that I also don't want the government finding out about".

Those positive things could be things like new business ideas, trade secrets, legal public dissent preparation (or other forms of public organizing), political research into sensitive subjects, etc.

Another:

"I have nothing to hide, but I also want to control what I show! My privacy is a right, no matter what I'm doing!"

Why do you trust the government to get it right in the first place?

You don't have to have anything to hide in order to be worried. What's more, under the current scenario you're guilty if they say you're guilty -- forget due process.

the right to be silent, and to keep to yourself those activities and associations you don't wish to share yet with the public."

--Ring Lardner, Jr. (paraphrased from memory)
(one of the Hollywood Ten)

anything we like. They'd prefer it if we didn't have the freedom of speech (although god forbid anyone tell them they can't have a gun).

is the right to say 'No.'

I always ask those who decry free speech if they believe I have the right to say, 'No.' I've never one yet who specifically denied it. And from such a humble beginning -- for there's nothing so simple and yet so momentous as the freedom to opt out -- there's nothing that can be proscribed.

You don't like my stance on the war? But I have the right to say, "No." You agreed.
You don't like my stance on the election? I have the right to say, "No." You agreed.
You don't like my opinion of the Pretzeldent? You said I have the right to say, "No," did you not?.

And so it goes. There is no debate. We all agree, I have the right to say "No." Everything else flows from it. . . even Nancy Reagan agreed.

Why did i think of JD Salinger when i saw the name Ring Lardner? Who are the Hollywood Ten?

Here's a link to a good short article about the Ten. . .

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAhollywood10.htm


I don't know why Ring Lardner Jr would remind you of JD Salinger. Lardner, the son of a renowned humorist from the early 20th Century, was a successful screenwriter up to his blacklisting, and managed to return to his craft in later years. Among his many accomplishments, he penned the screenplay for Robert Altman's fillm, M*A*S*H.

Salinger

Ring

I used to do that too. Funny little mind thing, isn't it?

that was my first thought... but i just googled Ring Lardner + JD Salinger and as it turns out in the book Catcher in the Rye, Ring is Holden Caulfield's favorite author. I think i must've read a book by Lardner once because of Holden's glowing admiration... almost 20 years ago though... really surprised my noggin will hold onto useless info that long...

so they are tied... sort of.

Maybe that's why I've held on to the connection as well. It's been more years than I care to contemplate since I read Catcher.

whether YOU (and your piddling life) have anything to hide or not. They always seem to forget that.

Brilliant!

:evilgrin:

Mozel Tov!

nt

One does not have to be doing anything wrong or illegal to have something to hide.

Every Businessman Has Plenty to Hide -- From His Competitors
They need to control the release of financial data to comply with the law and prevent insider trading.

Those who have access to NSA information become the ultimate insider traders --
they have EVERYBODY'S confidential information.
That information is worth BILLIONS if used to time market activity, or if sold to an interested party.

Can anybody doubt that they are using this information in this way?

I am sure it is being used for political purposes as well, but the freeps won't mind that, because it isn't being used against them.

Freeps who are in business have reason to worry though, regardless of their politics.
If they are so well-connected as to actually get info from the NSA, they are not freeps, they're part of the regime.
So most of them aren't getting the inside dope, but now they know that somebody is. If their competitors always seem
to be one step ahead of them, they may start to wonder why.

We need to pursue that angle as we attack them on snoopergate.

:spank:

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

in my response. It is sooooooooooo fitting in this day and age. Most people won't do a damn thing unless it's their life on the line. Stupid muthafuckers.

:hi:

world wide who didn't have anything to hide, but just happened to have the wrong color skin, prayed to the wrong God, and wore the wrong tribal clothing. How many innocents who had nothing to hide were picked up by bounty hunters and sold to the CIA as terrorists? How many have been brutalized, beaten to death even though they had nothing to hide? How many brothers, sons, husbands, and fathers who had nothing to hide, have disappeared off the face of the earth.

Nicely done.
The Professor

I'm the fifth recommendation! :D

THIS is REALLY good!

This is EXCELLENT!

Everybody should be able to see this because we're all gonna need comebacks like this. And even if we don't, it's still good to be armed with such info.

Remember: souls CAN be saved!!!

by way of CAPPS II:

Bahamas Firm Screens Personal Data To Assess Risk
Operation Avoids U.S. Privacy Rules

By Robert O'Harrow Jr.
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, October 16, 2004; Page A01
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36853-2004Oct15.html

Global, along with other contractors are listed at EPIC's

Approved Contractors for BAA-02-08: Total Information Awareness
http://www.epic.org/privacy/profiling/tia/contractors_table.html

With RFIDs and 'background checks' they can prevent you from ever working again, plua screw up your identity related financial and healthcare records royally:

Total Surveillance
http://www.motherjones.com/interview/2005/12/albrecht.html ...

Couple this insidious technology with purposely erroneous background checks

Who is checking the background checkers?
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/1128/p13s02-wmgn.html

They've offshored, outsourced, and privatized TIA. Now all they have to do is fire you for being 'of the wrong political party' and put false information in your background data...and voila ! You've just created the most insidious terror project in the US ever.

But remember folks, they sold this program to you because they're there to PROTECT you. Right ?
But they just can't seem to get ahold of that OBL guy who's on kidney dialysis, but have found ways to track you whereever you go, whatever you do...

'How do you know Bush isn't spying on his opponents, Democrats, or just anyone he thinks doesn't like him?'

You will probably get two responses...

1) 'Well he told us that he is only listening to terrorists, and I trust him.'

At that point you ask, 'Well, would you be okay with Hillary spying on Rush Limbaugh, McCain, Gingrich, Hannity, or Coulter if she were President? If you trust Bush then you have to trust her.'

2) 'I don't care if he does. The Democrats are all traitors anyways.'

There's no need for a response here; just shake your head and walk away. They'll know they are wrong.

spied on too. And that includes "libertarians".

Say good bye to anyone not a member of the bushcult mafia ever getting into office.

Why else would the Administration not involve the FISA court as the law dictates?
Only a handful of searches out of tens of thousands have ever been denied by the court.
There is NO reason to believe that bonifide investigations into possible terror plots would be denied.
The one and only reason that Bush would want to circumvent the court,is that the court would deny his request ....because the wire tapping has demonstratably NOTHING to do with fighting terrorism.

All you need are a few computers doing this automatically. Who knows what the NSA has at its disposal?

That was so cool. :yourock:

I'd bet! There is one thing that means more to them than looking at little girls and boys through keyholes, and that is MONEY! GAWD takes a far distant second place, to cash, to people like the neocons.

If you knew everything that is going on in every corporate board meeting in every big corporation in America, just think of the jump you would have, on the people without a clue what was going to happen tomorrow or next week! Now think of the danger the people who do have that kind of information pose, to every 401k in the country, every pension plan, every legit stock market investor, every legit stock broker. It's your money do you want them stealing it in the stock market?

If you don't have their name, say you just have a nickname, ask them to provide detailed information about themselves on the board.

See how many are happy giving out just a name and where they are from; I doubt you would get many takers.

"I know you aren't concerned about people spying on you because you have nothing to hide. So I'd like the chance to prove you right. Please provide your full legal name, address, date of birth, telephone number(s), social security number, and bank account and credit card account numbers and passwords. I'll get back to you in a few weeks with what I find."

I am in awe. :applause:

Nice going! I've gotta remember that one.

You showed him! LOL! :thumbsup:

There's no way I would do something like that, but you sure shut him up! Way to go!

Joe

:rofl: :patriot:
:woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:
:applause:

Although that information is always available in the public domain, what a way to bring it home to the interminably stupid.

Kay pasah and K-R.

It's amazing how some people feel about loss of privacy.... when it actually happens to them.

"This Modern World" by Tom Tomorrow has a recent strip titled "The innocent have nothing to hide." You can view it here: http://www.workingforchange.com/comic.cfm?itemid=20323

:applause: :yourock:

But I had no idea how much information is available via public domain. How about it is none of public domains business.

and tax transfer stamps (which gives you the sales price) and any mortgage documents (recording them puts the lender in first place for any claims on the property)

Excellent work!!!!

:yourock:


:woohoo: :woohoo:

And everytime someone writes a LTTE saying that same thing, and they do about once a week in the Miami Herald, we should publish all their public information on that site along with their letter.

That's something a lot of people keep forgetting. They don't care until it's their private information being made public.

Well done!

to convince these people? That's what I want to know... are they really that slow on the uptake?

and they can't see beyond their fear. In reality, they probably don't have anything to hide - they are law abiding citizens who do not understand how all of this spying could easily be misused.

You have to give them something more to fear than the brown skinned boogeyman that ShrubCo has set up to be the enemy - something personal that they can instantly sink their teeth into and see how it relates to them.

The same reason that many people thought pro-choice was automatically bad because of 'killing feti' - look how many of them did an about face when the Shiavo disaster happened. It went from some theory about personal privacy to the government stepping in and taking over medical decisions from the family. And while many of them couldn't see themselves ever being in a position to have to make a personal decision about an abortion - alot of them could suddenly see themself or another close family member in that hospital bed having to make difficult end of life decisions.

:bounce::yourock::bounce:

right here at the computer after reading this.

Christ! We have to convert one slow learner at a time.

This could fucking take forever, but worth the effort!

Starting with RimJob.. and besides I'm sure the Freeps
may be curious where their money has been going.
(heck I'm curious)

you think he lives as a place to start.

Which I'm pretty sure the DU rules say can't be posted in a public forum like this, so you'd have to do a private message if you contacted anyone here with that info...

you think he lives as a place to start.

Which I'm pretty sure the DU rules say can't be posted in a public forum like this, so you'd have to do a private message if you contacted anyone here with that info...

:patriot:

Nicely done.

bag. That is, if they don't have anything to hide.

hide, it's what you consider to be private and how others could mis-use that info.

YOU TOTALLY F***ING *RAWWWWWK* :D