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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:04 PM
Original message
David Brooks is a Freaking Idiot --->>>
Edited on Sun Jan-01-06 12:09 PM by Stephanie


David Brooks' assinine column in today's New York Times is instantly disproven by another NYT essay.

In his op-ed, Brooks first sets up a strawman - an article from the rather obscure American Prospect, by a Brandeis professor, in which, according to Brooks, she advises women to aim for work that pays well as opposed to just staying at home with the kids. The essay is here:


http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=10659

Brooks then proceeds to knock the strawman down by offering his own neo-con ideas for women:




The Year of Domesticity
By DAVID BROOKS
Published: January 1, 2006

<snip>

But of course, she is wrong.

First, she's wrong with her assertion that high-paying jobs lead to more human flourishing than parenthood. Look back over your life. Which memories do you cherish more, those with your family or those at the office? If Hirshman thinks high-paying careers lead to more human flourishing, I invite her to spend a day as an associate at a big law firm.

Second, she's wrong to assume that work is the realm of power and home is the realm of powerlessness. The domestic sphere may not offer the sort of brutalizing, dominating power Hirshman admires, but it is the realm of unmatched influence....

***

Her third mistake is to not even grapple with the fact that men and women are wired differently....

***

One of the findings of this research is that men are more interested in things and abstract rules while women are more interested in people....

***

Hirshman has it exactly backward. Power is in the kitchen. The big problem is not the women who stay there but the men who leave.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/tsc.html?URI=http://select.nytimes.com/2006/01/01/opinion/01brooks.html&OP=6e887df1Q2FQ2646pQ26loe__lQ263DDvQ26DQ2FQ26DQ2FQ26_uQ7EzQ7E_zQ26DQ2Fpe__1oGQ7BlrQ5D




Hmmmm... speaking of men who leave, here, in that same New York Times, is a sad example of why Brooks' neo-con social notions are nearly as idiotic as the neo-cons' foreign policy.




Paradise Lost (Domestic Division)
By TERRY MARTIN HEKKER
Published: January 1, 2006

<snip>

In the continuing case of Full-Time Homemaker vs. Working Mother, I offer myself as Exhibit A. Because more than a quarter-century ago I wrote an Op-Ed article for The New York Times on the satisfaction of being a full-time housewife in the new age of the liberated woman. I wrote it from my heart, thoroughly convinced that homemaking and raising my children was the most challenging and rewarding job I could ever want.

"I come from a long line of women," I wrote, "most of them more Edith Bunker than Betty Freidan, who never knew they were unfulfilled. I can't testify that they were happy, but they were cheerful. ...They took pride in a clean, comfortable home and satisfaction in serving a good meal because no one had explained that the only work worth doing is that for which you get paid."

***

So I was predictably stunned and devastated when, on our 40th wedding anniversary, my husband presented me with a divorce. I knew our first anniversary would be paper, but never expected the 40th would be papers, 16 of them meticulously detailing my faults and flaws, the reason our marriage, according to him, was over.

***

I faced frightening losses and was overwhelmed by the injustice of it all. He got to take his girlfriend to Cancun, while I got to sell my engagement ring to pay the roofer. When I filed my first nonjoint tax return, it triggered the shocking notification that I had become eligible for food stamps.

The judge had awarded me alimony that was less than I was used to getting for household expenses, and now I had to use that money to pay bills I'd never seen before: mortgage, taxes, insurance and car payments. And that princely sum was awarded for only four years, the judge suggesting that I go for job training when I turned 67. Not only was I unprepared for divorce itself, I was utterly lacking in skills to deal with the brutal aftermath.

<more>

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/01/fashion/sundaystyles/01LOVE.html?pagewanted=2




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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm not going into that kitchen unless I want to
Screw him if he wants women like me to stay out of jobs. Why, so he and his men counterparts can be the one's successful and rich? Ha! Screw it. I know if I never had ajob and just stayed home I'd get bored all the time. That's what my aunt was saying when we last saw her (one of my dad's sisters). How she gets so bored she goes crazy and that's one reason why she has to work and have something to do. My uncle does it for health insurance mainly I believe and to have something to do as well.
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swag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Brooks has mind as tepid as John Tierney's. And the NYT has them both.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Why does he have a job? n/t


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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Well, because his brain is wired diffently, you see.
Now don't get yourself all riled up by asking questions, little lady.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #5
9. Personally, I think he's got a short in there.
Edited on Sun Jan-01-06 01:19 PM by sfexpat2000
Lol!

/spelling.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #5
16. LOL
Ya, she shouldn't worry her pretty lil' head.

:rofl:
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. Yeah, blame biology....
If it was good enough for cavemen, it should be good enough for us!
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
35. It's because
he thinks we're still living in the pilgrim days. He needs to get his own Monica whether it's his wife or whatever. Get with the twenty-first century dude.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. Brooks has about thirty jobs
he must hate being home with his family.
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is the point
everyone better be able to keep house and work at a job-both men and women. You never know any more who will find work and who won't. My husband is a great cook, and does laundry. Only thing he does that I don't is haul in wood, and that's because of a physical limitation on my part.

Oh, btw Mr. Brooks-I was raised by a single mom in the '50s-that "idyllic age" you cons talk so glowingly about. My dad stole all our money, took out loans on the household furnishings without her knowledge, and skipped town. We lost everything. Funny thing was, all mom wanted to do was to be that "ideal homemaker". Luckily, mom had completed two years of college and could substitute teach-but at a lower salary than a man who, after all, "has a family to support. You women just get jobs so you can buy more hats." (I believe this is what she was told when she asked why she was paid less for the same work). She was looked down on because she got a divorce and was raising two kids on her own. My brother, ten years older than me, started working around the time I was born to help pay for "frivolous" stuff like food and clothing. So you can take your "a woman's place is in the home" attitude and peddle it to some fool-I know better.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. "Only thing he does that I don't is haul in wood,
and that's because of a physical limitation on my part." But you do your part by telling him where to find the wood. (I'm not being facetious)
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. If I have to
but since a great load of wood was cut down nearby by the power company, there's no need. I do carry that which isn't too heavy.
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 01:01 AM
Response to Reply #4
37. God bless your mother
:hug: It's women like her for why we can do what we do now. :hug:
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
6. i used to think he was a little right of center, but lately he's just been
a mouthpiece and a more & more so shrill one at that; can't go back on whatever it was you've said, can't go forward cause there lies the abyss, and you still need to pay your mortgage by writing poliyical, sci-fi drivel by the inch :shrug: what's a mouthpiece to do?
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K-W Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. He's a sophist.
He picks his positions based on rhetorical elegance and the current ideological lay of the land. At the end of the day hes just a reactionary talking head.
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bridgit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. that sounds right to me as well, K-W...
:thumbsup:
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Crazy Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. My mom is old school.....
....she can't understand why my wife works when I make enough to support everyone, (including her as I built her a small home next to ours), why I had to wait for her to get home one day and have a financial discussion before signing a $10,000 roofing contract, etc.
Back in her days, with my father, the women stayed home, cooked and cleaned, were never allowed to look at the check book or other finances, couldn't educate themselves, and the all time pet-peeve of mine, having to ask for money to buy something and being told, "We don't have enough money for a new $10 (70's prices) pair of women's shoes!" but there was always enough money for going to the bar, gambling and a new TV if he (dad) wanted one.
Don't get me wrong, dad wasn't that bad a guy, he was just behaving in the way he was brought up.

I feel more secure in knowing that my wife has a good paying job and if anything should happen to me her income would be even more of an asset than we use it for now. Plus, she has her own money, to do as she pleases whether it's a new pair of shoes or a lunch with the girls. Oh yeah, I like getting surprise gifts that I didn't have to pay for.

Happy New Year!
de Dave "The Wave"
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FreedomAngel82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #7
38. Yes
I think it's good to women can have their own money just in case. You never know when the husband will die (what if it's young and he doesn't have retirement built up?), run off with everything you have etc. My grandmother (mom's mother) didn't go to college or anything. She and my grandfather got married when she was either sixteen or eighteen. One of those. She never worked and my grandfather did all the work. Luckily he lived until last summer and had a lot of retirement money and they a few summers ago had a contract with some cell phone company (I think Cingular?) and they put a tower in their yard (they live out in the country) and my grandmother gets a good sum from them (I believe around $500 a month). It's always good to be able to take care of yourself.
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enki23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
8. written like a true upper class twit asshole
Edited on Sun Jan-01-06 12:35 PM by enki23
"money doesn't matter" says the rich man. while the poor woman, and her husband, each work seventy hours a week to pay off the huge medical bills their piss-poor coverage, five-thousand dollar deductable, and youngest daughter with cystic fibrosis left from last year. the dad still can't afford the back surgery that might, or might not help him. not that he could afford to take the six months off from work anyway.

but, you see, she'll have all these memories when she's used up at fifty and dead before sixty. memories of having to send her kids to a shitty school while the well-to-do republican assholes, who dropped thousands of dollars on a campaign against the last several school funding initiatives, sent their kids to an exclusive christian academy. that place where all the kids wear uniforms, and where they learn all about what a blessing it must be to be poor, and to have all that time on your hands, and how they would fit better through the eye of a needle that way the lucky bastards. and she'd have memories of endless unpaid bills, and surly phone calls coming in twelve, sometimes fifteen times a day. memories of her kids getting under the table jobs when they turned twelve. memories of having to choose between that surgery, and her daughter's ungodly expensive treatments. memories of coming home at one in the morning with that exhausted nausea she used to get, and how she would puke acid till the tears came, remembering she had to wake up in five goddamned hours.

all those happy fucking memories of the charming, noble, fortunate american working class whose lives just keep getting better, and better all the time.

why in the world would a working woman trade all that for something as droll as more money?
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OKNancy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
18. Good post
:applause:
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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
12. These promoters of domestic tranquility ......
always fail to mention what Terry Martin Hekker's story makes so clear: As a housewife (or househusband, for that matter), you are completely financially dependent on, therefore frighteningly vulnerable to, the whims of someone else. If that someone else should decide to leave you, taking a few of your financial assets along, you're in deep trouble. Even if you have job skills, long absence from the job market makes you under-employable, to say the least.

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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #12
21. They also talk about this topic in an absurdly abstracted way
that ignores the fact that women have always worked AND that most women don't have a choice between careerism and idealized maternity.

Their rhetoric outstrips their pulsing glia every time.

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Jade Fox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Yes, let them do time....
as a housewife. I dare say Brooks hasn't a clue as to what it's really like.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Yeah! Let Calgon take HIM away!
LOL! He'd last about five minutes.
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peekaloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
13. With his nervous laugh and manic grin he reminds me of a mental
ward escapee.

Any way the wind blows so goes Davie.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
14. No one with children should be compelled to work
How 'bout that?

Men, Women -- if you have kids, you get paid to take care of them full-time. There would be a base stipend with additional for each child. With 20 million families with 1-2 kids under 14 at any given time, a $20k base stipend would cost $400 billion per year, which is less than the Bush Tax Cuts and the Iraqi Occupation. We'd probably even have enough money left over for a real kick-ass Mars exploration project. And the cure for Cancer, AIDS, and the Heartbreak of Psoriasis.

I wonder if all that "freedom of choice" stuff is constrained by money and/or tradition and/or religion and/or community values and/or politics and/or ... well, you get the idea. The REAL issue is about how to control people, and families be damned.

--p!
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
15. This guy is a Loser with a capitol L.
Another in a huge stable of Bushco shills.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
20. that second story is a great read
how great that it appeared alongside one of Brooks's 50's nostalgia pieces.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. It appeared in the Style section.
It was a personal essay in the Style section, i.e., the women's section. Not on the op-ed page.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
22. Deleted sub-thread
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
against all enemies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
26. Brooks is such a lightweight, Frank Rich's column that usually
runs on Sunday just highlights what a pantload Brooks is.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
28. "Her third mistake is to not even grapple with the fact that men
and women are wired differently...."

Do they have to go to the forties in the last century for their "facts". I was raised with that mantra and it's all hot air. Women are not a different species and they have proven over and over again, when allowed to, that they are just as capable as men in everything.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Yep. That's why they should also be subject to the draft.
Edited on Sun Jan-01-06 11:36 PM by TahitiNut
:evilgrin:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 12:59 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. Ah, no. And why on earth are you bringing the draft up?
The draft, that POS all those women protested even when it wasn't their skin being numbered?

:shrug:



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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #34
42. "Women ... are just as capable as men in everything."
I was merely agreeing. What word didn't you understand? Hmmm? :eyes:

As I've said before, during my tour of duty in Viet Nam I NEVER saw a male do anything that a female couldn't do. Nothing. Period.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Yes, women are also capable of murder but that doesn't
mean they should go on crime sprees. (Same logic.)

You're barking up the wrong feminist, TahitiNut. And I'm surprised because I usually appreciate not only your opinions but also the case you make for them.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. So, you believe women are the equivalent of "4F" for the draft?
Edited on Mon Jan-02-06 01:28 PM by TahitiNut
Mentally, morally, and/or physically unfit for service, huh? Well ... I don't. IMHO, there is nothing more institutionally sexist in this country than this inequity.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. No, I didn't say that. I said the draft was a POS
so, it looks like we agree on this point.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. So, what we disagree about is how we perform military service, huh?
Edited on Mon Jan-02-06 02:08 PM by TahitiNut
I cannot condone a 'volunteer' military. No way. No how. That's "Let George do it" thinking ... and is completely antithetical to a liberal democracy. Democracy isn't a spectator sport - it requires participation ... equal "skin in the game." I advocate Universal National Service - in a variety of roles. Whether in the military, the Public Health Service, the Peace Corps, VISTA, a Civilian Conservation Corps, or whatever, I strongly believe every citizen should obligate themselves to a term of service to their nation. Skin in the game. I don't care whether they're male, female, gay, straight, black, white, brown, yellow, abled, or disabled - everybody.

A 'volunteer' military is composed of those economically coerced and those chasing the fast-track to citizenship - another form of coercion. That's not democratic or egalitarian - it's just another entitlement for the wealthy. It's an abomination.

Unless and until we have a Universal Service Mandate, the draft itself must eliminate the obscene sexism inherent in deeming females ineligible. I held this position in 1968 when I was drafted, in 1976 when the draft was deactivated, in the 1980s when Reagan abused his military powers, in 1991 when Poppy Bush intervened in Kuwait/Iraq, in the 1990s when Clinton went into Bosnia, and today. The principle is unchanged!
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 01:36 AM
Response to Reply #28
40. Plus we've all known women who simply love their jobs outside
the home, and men who loved being "Mr. Mom". It's wrong to state absolutes about any group of people.

I, for one, would go out of my mind at the thought of being a stay at home mom year after year. My friend Renee fantasizes about such a life. Guess we're both just "wired differently".
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #28
41. How many women have been heavyweight champion of the world?
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Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-01-06 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
30. I can't stand him either
after I heard him say "the supposed leak" referring to the Plame case.

I mute the volume when I see him and Shields on the Lehrer show. What a monumental liar.

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TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
32. I think his hormones are raging again.
Honestly, he lets his emotions get all the better of him and then he can't seem to reason at all. He really should leave producing columns to people who don't react so eomtionally. He is under total control of his mid-life hormones again. Sigh and tsk tsk. He should stay at home and rest and not try producing columns for a little while.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
33. So...he isn't a feminist either. Oky-Doky then.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
36. Did anyone find a link to brooks online?
I only have the subscription link.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
39. Is this an attempt to ignite another culture war? Am I taking the bait?
Just occurred to me. Might be the next distraction on the agenda since "gay marriage" has lost it's thrill.
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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
43. While I completely agree that David Brooks is a freaking idiot ...
Edited on Mon Jan-02-06 11:47 AM by Jim__
I think he may have gotten something right, namely: The big problem is not the women who stay there <in the kitchen - Jim> but the men who leave., although I would change the "there" reference to be "in the home" rather than "in the kitchen."

Unquestionably, in our society, power lives outside the home. This may be a real problem with our social structure. What is more important to you, your work or your family? For me, it is hands down my family. Yet, where ever I've worked, when I've looked at executive management, I am convinced that to them, the most important thing is work. And, when I look at the decisions that they make, they are often based on essentially minor concerns. Why would an oil industry executive decide that its better to ignore global warming and endanger the future of his children than to risk short term profits for his company? I think it's because his head is stuffed up his ass. But, our society accords this executive tremendous power and status. And rewards his ass-backwards decisions.

I agree that by working in the home, women give up power in our society. I'm not sure the solution to this is necessarily that more women should work outside the home (where they work, of course, being based on their decisions and not social constraints). To me, a better solution may be that we put more social power and status into the home.

Putting most of the power in the work place may be our real problem.

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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. "Putting most of the power in the work place may be our real problem."
Edited on Mon Jan-02-06 02:01 PM by ultraist
That certainly is one of the biggest problems in our greedy, capitalist society but the fact remains, that sexist gender roles and discrimination in the workplace, are also major problems.

If fathers took more responsibility at home, so that mothers had more time for their careers and IF the workplace eliminated the glass ceiling, we could progress toward more equality.

As it stands now, approx 90% of top CEO positions and the large majority of high power positions in govt are held by men, white men. This is a symptom of systemic problems: Racism and Sexism.
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area51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
44. David Brooks.
The reason why idiots like David Brooks want women to get out of the workforce & stay home, is that his precious St. Bush's economy isn't creating enough jobs for everyone, so this is his "solution".
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-02-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #44
49. Yep
Edited on Mon Jan-02-06 02:06 PM by ultraist
David Brooks' upper class, elitist, white, style of sexism is sickening. He likes to use ideas/terms that border on being civilized, yet, if you lift the veil, he is actually a pusher for RW conservative ideology. :puke: He's sneaky and dishonest, IMO.

I've also read pieces of his on poverty that have undertones of racist theories, ever so subtle, but they are present.
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Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-03-06 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #49
51. So I don't understand why he's the RW darling of intelligent media
Why is he the "conservative" voice on NPR, PBS & the NYT???
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