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WAKE UP! TO THE UNIFORMED DIVISION,UNITED STATES SECRET SERVICE

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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 10:48 PM
Original message
WAKE UP! TO THE UNIFORMED DIVISION,UNITED STATES SECRET SERVICE
Edited on Wed Jan-04-06 11:28 PM by Clara T
SEC. 605. THE UNIFORMED DIVISION, UNITED STATES SECRET SERVICE.

`Sec. 3056A. Powers, authorities, and duties of United States Secret Service Uniformed Division
`(a) There is hereby created and established a permanent police force, to be known as the `United States Secret Service Uniformed Division'. Subject to the supervision of the Secretary of Homeland Security, the United States Secret Service Uniformed Division shall perform such duties as the Director, United States Secret Service, may prescribe in connection with the protection of the following:

`(1) The White House in the District of Columbia.
`(2) Any building in which Presidential offices are located.
`(3) The Treasury Building and grounds.
`(4) The President, the Vice President (or other officer next in the order of succession to the Office of President), the President-elect, the Vice President-elect, and their immediate families.
`(5) Foreign diplomatic missions located in the metropolitan area of the District of Columbia.
`(6) The temporary official residence of the Vice President and grounds in the District of Columbia.


`(A) on the basis of extraordinary protective need;
`(B) upon request of an affected metropolitan area; and
`(C) when the extraordinary protective need arises at or in association with a visit to--


`(11) An event designated under section 3056(e) of title 18 as a special event of national significance.


`(b)(1) Under the direction of the Director of the Secret Service, members of the United States Secret Service Uniformed Division are authorized to:

`(B) make arrests without warrant for any offense against the United States committed in their presence, or for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States if they have reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such felony; and

<snip>

`(d) In carrying out the functions pursuant to paragraphs (7) and (9) of subsection (a), the Secretary of Homeland Security may utilize, with their consent, on a reimbursable basis, the services, personnel, equipment, and facilities of State and local governments, and is authorized to reimburse such State and local governments for the utilization of such services, personnel, equipment, and facilities. The Secretary of Homeland Security may carry out the functions pursuant to paragraphs (7) and (9) of subsection (a) by contract. The authority of this subsection may be transferred by the President to the Secretary of State. In carrying out any duty under paragraphs (7) and (9) of subsection (a), the Secretary of State is authorized to utilize any authority available to the Secretary under title II of the State Department Basic Authorities Act of 1956.'.

More:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/cpquery/?&dbname=cp109&sid=cp109WvwUu&refer=&r_n=hr333.109&item=&sel=TOC_208072&


Read this article:
There is hereby created and established a permanent police force, to be known as the `United States Secret Service Uniformed Division’. Subject to the supervision of the Secretary of Homeland Security…

The new USSSUD will be in DC, but also everywhere Bush travels, or former Presidents, or heads of state, or even at events labeled a “special event of national significance.” (#11)

<snip>

Section 602 states that Americans can be arrested for interfering with “National Special Security Events”. You can even be arrested for conspiring to interfere with an “NSSE”. In other words, an American citizen can be arrested for calling some friends and scheduling an unauthorized meeting with a CongressCritter.

Under this new draconian law, any event the DHS labels an NSSE opens the door to arresting citizens that dare to speak out. Free Speech, Freedom to Assemble? Not in Bush’s America.

They even changed the language from events “designated” NSSEs to “described” as an NSSE. Again, opening the door to abuse- anytime a protest gets too big, the fascists can describe it as an NSSE and arrest anyone they so desire.
http://benfrank.net/blog/2006/01/04/bush_gestapo/

Tell People- this must not pass!
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. See the entire bill here- This is 100% State Control
H.R.3199
Title: To extend and modify authorities needed to combat terrorism, and for other purposes.
Sponsor: Rep Sensenbrenner, F. James, Jr. (introduced 7/11/2005)      Cosponsors (None)
Related Bills: H.RES.369, H.RES.595, S.1266, S.1389
Latest Major Action: 12/14/2005 Conference report agreed to in House. Status: On agreeing to the conference report Agreed to by the Yeas and Nays: 251 - 174 (Roll no. 627).
House Reports: 109-174 Part 1, 109-174 Part 2; Latest Conference Report: 109-333 (in Congressional Record H11279-11310)

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:H.3199:
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Cats Against Frist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Aha. So the Blackshirts have arrived.
Nice.
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spindrifter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
3. Mike Ch*rtoff has his own
personal goon squad now.:thumbsdown:
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hang a left Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. When is this coming up for a vote???
Edited on Wed Jan-04-06 11:18 PM by hang a left
I see...The president tells us he is above the law and as long as he is president he will do whatever he deems necessary. He will violate the constitution, preemptively attack other countries, and whatever the hell he wishes. If the people try to seek redress he will sick the secret service police on them. Holy moly...where is that twilight zone comic?
on edit:

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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. The Latest: “USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005?)
H.R. 3199 (the so-called “USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005?)—created to “extend and modify authorities needed to combat terrorism, and for other purposes,”

Here's the latest:
Latest Major Action: 12/14/2005 Conference report agreed to in House. Status: On agreeing to the conference report Agreed to by the Yeas and Nays: 251 - 174 (Roll no. 627).
House Reports: 109-174 Part 1, 109-174 Part 2; Latest Conference Report: 109-333 (in Congressional Record H11279-11310)

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:H.3199:
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #4
18. It will be a "recess appointment"
bush* don't need no stinkin Legislative Branch.
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kids, sign up now!
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RagingInMiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
6. First they came for the liberals ....
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Zen Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. I don't think this has any chance in the Senate.
The Republican House is just a Bush Rubber Stamp. But I think enough Republicans would defect on this one to keep it from ever coming to the floor for a vote.
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CrazyOrangeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. Kristallnacht here we come . . . unfuckingbelievable
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Download this flyer and pass around! Everywhere!


Go here scroll down for pdf file.
http://benfrank.net/blog/2006/01/04/bush_gestapo

I tend to take things with a grain of salt and think things aren't as bad as made out to be. I'm no alarmist. This is bad. No, this is worse.

Read this interview:

Tuesday, January 3rd, 2006
National Security Agency Whistleblower Warns Domestic Spying Program Is Sign the U.S. is Decaying Into a “Police State”

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/03/1435201
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CrazyOrangeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. I'm going to do just that, Clara T
I always appreciate the depth of your posts.

:thumbsup:
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-04-06 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. K & R
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 12:02 AM
Response to Original message
12. His own personal Gestapo
Things are moving faster they are finished laying the foundation for the American Police state.

The 2006 Election is it if it's Diebolded
it's truly banana republic time
Like all fascists they can not deal with dissent they will target & start to persecute
those that think for themselves & stand for
Justice it's just a matter of time.

For those aware of History you know what's
coming.

Clara T it's people like you that keep me
coming back to the DU Thanks for all your
great posts!

Keep spreading the word about these fascist
bastards.

Cheers LoD
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
13. This is scary shit!
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phusion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
15. this makes my stomach turn
ugh...

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newswolf56 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
16. And yet there are still people -- even here on DU -- who doubt that...
Bush is the ultimate achievement of American (global) capitalism: put in office precisely to oversee the final-stage development of capitalism into fascism. (How else -- save by the enslavement of of all the rest of us -- are the capitalists to maintain their shibboleths of "growth" and "profit" in a world of worsening shortages?)

And just as there are people who fail to see the fascist threat, so are there people who still deny the historical truth of class struggle, and thus too deny the desperate need for resurrection of the New Deal: democratic socialism, yet with recognition of the sad necessity for capitalism, its innate evil and therefore the absolute necessity to control it -- government as protector of the people from capitalist savagery.

(As to the ultimate relevance of Marx, that will be determined by the extent to which the fascists are successful in imposing tyranny.)
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lpbk2713 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
17. This just in --- The Bill of Rights has been suspended.





For our own good, of course.


(What have you got to hide?)


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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
19. The Gestapo had the same rules there
but that goes totally against the Bill of Rights...

No King is above the Law... this makes Bush King...
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 01:33 AM
Response to Original message
20. These guys??
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
21. I hate to burst your bubble..........
the uniformed division has been around for many many years. This just clarified their responsibilities & duties and allows them to be assigned to other Federal Protective details by Homeland Security & Sec. of State. They have traveled in the past on various details. You could always be arrested if you disrupted an event, say political convention, session of congress, etc. These would be National Special Security Events. I don't see the Uniformed Division being involved unless it involves property under their control or the person/persons they are responsible too.

http://www.secretservice.gov/ud.shtml
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MetaTrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. It is a curious coincidence though
that the Schutzstaffel started out modestly as Hitler's bodyguards.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. I agree in part.
the Uniformed Division is responsible for sevuring the office of the President whil the plainclothes division protect the person of the president.

The are the gatekeepers at the white House.THey probably have a motorcycles for motorcade duty in and around DC. THey have been around for years and were part of Treasury until they created Homeland Security.

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lynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
24. The USSS/UD has been around for DECADES
- They were once referred to as "White House Police". They are uniformed - do security and guard work - and work that could be considered Federal police work. Pretty much exactly what the article states. If you've ever been on a White House tour, they are the uniformed guys that check your bags and guard the place.

I have neighbors that are USSS/UD. They are nothing new and they perform vital federal policing and security service.
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Marleyb Donating Member (736 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. If they already have it, then why is it in this legislation?
And why is bush pushing the patriot act constantly? It ain't about protecting US. Of course I don't know why he bothers with legislation when he clearly feels he is above the law.

It is time for all Americans to ask themselves...how do we want to be remembered in history? And what kind of country are we leaving the children??!!

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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. So what does "extend and modify" mean?
Edited on Thu Jan-05-06 11:07 AM by Clara T
H.R. 3199 (the so-called “USA PATRIOT Improvement and Reauthorization Act of 2005?)—created to “extend and modify authorities needed to combat terrorism, and for other purposes,”


Is this a "modificaation"?
"B) make arrests without warrant for any offense against the United States committed in their presence, or for any felony cognizable under the laws of the United States if they have reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing such felony; and..."
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lynne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. That isn't a modification -
Edited on Thu Jan-05-06 11:26 AM by lynne
- the USSS/UD has always been able to arrest without warrant when there are reasonable grounds to believe that someone has committed a felony. Every police officer in the land has the same ability.

Their history link is here: http://www.secretservice.gov/history.shtml

From what I was reading on the original link - halfway down the page - it appeared that they are amending language. There was a section where it indicated what language was being struck and what was being added. However, the portion I read did not seem to change authority. Somewhere there should be something that says what their powers currently are but they already had the ability to arrest when there is reasonable grounds to believe a crime is being committed. No different from any other police.

My point was that they are not new and have been around since the 1920's as the uniformed division of the Secret Service.

Edit: The Secret Service was originally formed under the Dept. of the Treasury. They were switched to Homeland Security in 2003. Possibly any legislation impacting Homeland Security also impacts the USSS/UD, which may be the reason that they are named.
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #26
38. "and for other purposes,”
This is the kind of language used by mother fuckers.
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Herstal Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
28. What's new about this?
Edited on Thu Jan-05-06 11:54 AM by Herstal
The Uniformed Division has been around forever.

from the Secret Service website:

The Secret Service Uniformed Division, initially a force comprised of a few members of the military and the Metropolitan Police Department, began formalized protection of the White House and its grounds in 1860. This unit was under the direction of the White House Military Aide until 1922 when President Warren G. Harding prompted the establishment of a White House Police Force.
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Good Question
If there is nothing new then why is it in the revised Patriot Act?

Is there an expansion of powers? An expansion of targeted people? Does this connect with the expanded wiretapping programs in some way? Is it just a deepening of State control? Do we see what is before our eyes?
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Herstal Donating Member (61 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. I'm going to bet...
I'm betting that there is some small change in there, maybe chain of command, maybe adding jurisdiction to wherever the POTUS may be. Something small, but that the whole thing is being restated for some reason.
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Marleyb Donating Member (736 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
31. Commandeering local cops is a new one...
But here’s the disturbing part: Chertoff and his minions will be allowed to commandeer your local cops under this draconian provision. "In carrying out the functions pursuant to paragraphs (7) and (9) of subsection (a), the Secretary of Homeland Security may utilize, with their consent, on a reimbursable basis, the services, personnel, equipment, and facilities of State and local government."


There's more...
http://kurtnimmo.com/?p=180

So let’s say Bush plans to traipse through your town and you send out an email to your friends urging them to practice their one-time civil liberty under the First Amendment of the now doormat Bill of Rights and stand on a public street corner with signs protesting the neocon mass murder campaign in Iraq. Of course, that very email will be scooped up by the largest intel op in the world—the National Security Agency, now effectively Bush’s personal snoop operation—and will be forwarded to Chertoff’s Gestapo and you may very well receive a visit the day before Bush’s motorcade wings through town and due to "extraordinary protective need" you may very well be arrested "without warrant" for an "offense against the United States," that is to say for disagreeing with our Caesar, George W. Bush.


also on uruknet
http://uruknet.info/?p=19276&hd=0&size=1&l=x
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Yes its new, No, it doesn't do what the post claims it does.
The provision cited allows the DHS to "utilize, with their consent, on a reimbursable basis, the services, personnel, equipment, and facilities of State and local governments" in certain situations. Which situations? The situations described in (a)(7) and (a)(9). Well, what are those? Funny you would ask since the OP deceptively omitted those two provisions. As it turns out they relate exclusively to situations involving the protection of foreign missions (e.g. consular offices) located outside of DC and certain visits by foreign officials that take place in cities outside DC. Another words, the fun little hypothetical about chimpy coming to your town and your local cops being dragooned by the feds to put you in irons without a warrant is, to use the formal term, crapola, at least with respect to this provision. As I described at length in a separate post, this law makes some technical changes and a couple of relatively minor substantive modifications (at least one of which weakens the provision). Its not worth wasting tinfoil on.

onenote
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. "the OP deceptively omitted those two provisions"
This is simply not true. There was no deception whatsoever. If allowed the entire provision would have been posted. To suggest the post was deceptive is certainly to suggest you can read/know my intent.

The intent is to dissemintate info relative to what is staring us all in the face so as to have discourse and suggest possible ways of effectively dealing with these ultra-conservative fascists and their corporate masters.
So please do not suggest I am trying to be deceptive.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. well, just a funny coincidence then
Included: a provision that cross references (7) and (9). Included: Provisions 1 through 6. Excluded: Seven through ten (although, oddly, the (A), (B),and (C) provisions that follow (6) aren't actually part of (6), they're part of (7).

Okay, I take back what I said. The OP wasn't intentionally deceptive. It was extraordinarily sloppy.

onenote
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #31
40. They always could before.........example.
the SS comes into town and says * or Darth Vader are flying in and we want to them to got to Point A from the airport, I need 24 uniformed cops to man checkpoints (traffic posts) to see that the motorcade is not impaired. They usually set this up with the local or state police, if Ot (overtime is involved) they tell the chief that it will be reimbursed. Usually during a campaign the locals get stuck with the bill, until the campaign coughs up the cash. At one time if you worked a detail as they are called the POTUS would make sure everyone got an official tie pin, I've been screwed out of a few. Mostly if * came to town no one would know the exact route in advance, one could speculate. The route would probably be locked down long before he arrived. As far as those wishing to send him a message well, you could either be sent packing or diverted away from an area. These details usually move very fast and he could be gone long before you would even know it. Look for the laughing cops thats usually a clue. It just happens, in more urban areas entire areas are totally blocked off. The "freeway blogger" approach probably would be more effective in many instances.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 03:08 PM
Response to Original message
32. the sky is falling, the sky is falling!! Ooops, never mind.
Sometimes I'm amazed at how some undoubtedly well-minded DUers turn into sheeple at the drop of a hat. Now, in defense of the OP, I'll assume that he/she was just passing this along and not necessarily endorsing it. At least I hope so, because the linked description of this legislation by "benfrank" is so misleading, inaccurate, goofy, over the top, etc. as to suggest that benfrank has some crazy agenda or is just crazy.

There is virtually nothing in this provision that changes existing (and by existing, I mean existing for a very long time) law. The primary purpose of the legislation appears to be to technical -- to move the provision relating to the Uniform Division of the Secret Service out of the portion of the US Code where it previously resided when the Secret Service was part of the Dept. of Treasury, to Title 18, the Criminal Code. In terms of the substance of that provision, the only changes appear to be the recognition that the Uniformed Division's jurisdiction includes not only protecting the pres and vp, but also candidates for pres and vp, former pres, and the pres-elect and vp-elect. It also specifies that the uniformed division's jurisdiction includes certain "special event of national significance" as designated by the President. The idea of the Secret Service having jurisdiction with respect to such events dates back to 2002 (making it one of the newer provisions). The amendment simply clarifies that the Uniformed Division of the Secret Service has that jurisdiction along with the regular secret service.

The change from "designated" to "described" trumpteted in the linked post is a complete misreading of the law. Its simply changes a provision that formerly cross referenced events/person/places "designated or enumerated" in another provision of law to events/persons/places "described" in another provision of law. Presumably, this change was made because the cross-referenced provisions contain descriptions, not designations or enumerations.

Finally, for what its worth, one of the only other substantive changes included in this supposed "gestapo" legislation adds a requirement that certain conduct be "willful and knowing" in order for it to be illegal. In other words, it makes that particular provision harder to enforce rather than easier.

So, next time someone starts screaming about Gestapo legislation, stop and think for a minute. If that was really the case, wouldn't Russ Feingold have made a point of mentioning it in his statements opposing the Patriot Act extension bill (which is what the secret service provision is taken from).

So, fold up your tinfoil and put it back in the drawer.

onenote
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Clara T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. The Sky Has Fallen and still "They Thought They Were Free"
It's more a matter of mitigating the damages to those who are acutely aware of the proceeding police state. As one who has been on the wicked end of the police baton I am acutely aware of how short the leash is and how the screws are tightening daily.

I certainly do not fall into the category of "...well-minded DUers turn into sheeple at the drop of a hat...", and those who ignore the race towards fascism by the rabid reich wingers either cannot or refuse to examine what is swirling all around us eac day. I know that many see fascism as a caricature of what occured in Germany, Italy, Spain etc. in the 30's, 40's. However the fascistic state that is in fact already here is styled in a uniquely American wrapping.

Eyes Wide Open

They Thought They Were Free
          by  Milton  Mayer


"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it - please try to believe me - unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop.  Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, "regretted," that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these "little measures" that no "patriotic German" could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing.  One day it is over his head.

<snip>

"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn't see exactly where or how to move.  Believe me, this is true.  Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse.  You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow.  You don't want to act, or even to talk, alone; you don't want to "go out of your way to make trouble."  Why not? - Well, you are not in the habit of doing it.  And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.

"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows.  Outside, in the streets, in the general community, "everyone is happy.  One hears no protest, and certainly sees none.  You know, in France or Italy there will be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this.  In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to you colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say?  They say, "It's not so bad" or "You're seeing things" or "You're an alarmist."

"And you are an alarmist.  You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can't prove it.  These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don't know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end?  On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic.  You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.

http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html

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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. nice sentiments, but they don't make the OP any more accurate
My point is that the characterization of the secret service technical amendment provision as legislation creating, for the first time, an American Gestapo, was so fundamentally inaccurate as to be laughable. Now, if you want to contend that we've had an American Gestapo for years (since around 1860, which is when the predecessor to the Uniformed Division was created, or, if you'd like, since Jimmy Carter's first term when the name "Unformed Division" was first used), go ahead and we can have that debate. But if you want to talk about these particular provisions (or even the secret service related provisions in the 2002 Patriot Act), at least do everyone the favor of describing them accurately rather than parroting some tinfoiler's utterly misleading description.

onenote
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neweurope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. I've read this before. This should be posted at least once every
week. I'm German... This is exactly how it works.

-----------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
39. Thanks for this post re: the UnPatriot Act nm
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obreaslan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-06-06 06:51 AM
Response to Original message
42. Sure, here they are marching at Bush's* 3rd inauguration.....
Edited on Fri Jan-06-06 06:51 AM by obreaslan



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