Wow! Repugs Eat their OWN.......have you seen a Democrat on Cable

involved in this great BACKLASH against BUSH?

Why are WE allowing Duncan Hunter and others on the Repug Right to FRAME THE ISSUES?

Why do we allow this? Is it good stategy? Allow the Repugs to IMPLODE ON THEIR OWN?

Given that we all were herded into the "ABB" Column in the last years...isn't it a good question to ask?

Will Lou Dobs (who has been a TROOPER on the Ports Deal) EVER VOTE FOR A DEM?

I think Not...But the question is how the Repugs/PNAC Defectors have turned on their P-Resident not ELECTED but ANNOINTED.

We are allowing the Repug Libertarians and PNAC Defectors like Fukiyama and the rest of their "detritus" to FRAME THE ISSUES!

Where are our Dems? Aside from Boxer who got the Israeli deal out there with the Port's Deal...but they spend all their time on Repugs with "small time" given to any Democrats.

As a Dem...it's as if WE DON'T EXIST......

Have I missed something? :shrug:

Or so many people who will respond to this thread will try to tell you.

the average American."

:rofl: and thanks...My view is so much in the minority on DU that I just as well go into my bunker. :-( I's so much the "minority," I might as well be dead.

watch TV and you will see what I mean. The word is Dems are just playing for political advantage, and the suggestion is that Dems don't care about security.

(P.S. there have been some Dems on the shows (see other posts), but ratio is tilted towards republicans)

Is Dean, Hillary, Obama and Kerry being banned from those same shows you mention?

where you can call thier offices.

An interesting quote from John Kerry's Kos Diary :

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/3/1/113150/0512

<snip>
We now know that no matter how outrageous the lie, there are some who will give the attackers a platform and in the new world we live in there are no more "gatekeepers"-- no more Edward R. Murrow in Good Night and Good Luck! -- to separate fact from fiction.
<snip>

...and that those P.R. people book them on various TV shows.

Are any "star", house hold name Democrats publically claiming that they were turned down for an appearance on a TV news/interview show?

If not, then I'll assume it is not the case, and that they can go on TV and rebut lies and make any statement they want.

<snip>

So how come if the president and the vice president, they demand—they come on our air, we stop the works on MSNBC. And we show the whole speech. The vice president, the president, anytime they give a speech now, full coverage.

John Kerry can‘t get a TV camera in the room, OK? So it‘s not that you‘re not making your points, it‘s that the public watching it and reading about it in the papers say, “I don‘t hear a plan or a vision, a light at the end of the tunnel.”

<snip>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10393970/

Dr. Fate ignores it, and continues with his pre-supposed fantasy.

For those who believe, no proof is necessary.
For those who don't, no proof is adequate.

Show me proof that Kerry or other house-hold name DEMS has been denied an appearance on an interview or debate show. Not an obscure speech or press conference- I'm talking about going on those shows that I always see him on.

I'll accept a simple accusation from the allegedly banned DEM that it has occurred- I'll take their word for it. Can you show me this?

Fantasy? Then why do I see him, Dean, Hillary & Obama on interview shows all the time?

You're good to go.

I'm not your monkey boy. You don't want to find the truth yourself, then there's nothing I can do for you.

I read Media Matters and listen to AAR- I have yet to hear Kerry, Hillary, Dean or Obama claim that they were denied an appearance on an interview of debate show.

Until I hear them or an inside media person make this specific claim, I'll view it as an excuse.

We agree that the media avoids covering their "releases" and "conferences"- but I'm talking about going straight to the TV programs like they often do.

...you might be asking the wrong question? Not being invited is not the same as being banned or denied, but the result is the same.

I doubt you listen to much AAR, because Randi goes on this tangent numerous times. She get's invited once, and once she puts a Repug in his/her place, she's never invited again.

"Inside media person"s have said as much all over the 1 1/2 hour of Outfoxed, which can be rented on DVD right now. A NY Post editor admits it on camera in "Orwell Rolls in His Grave" which is also on DVD.

I'm not asking the wrong question at all- i'm offering a solution. The media does nto cover press conferences. but they DO allow star Democrats an outlet in the form of interview & debate show appearances.

I'm not talking about the media denying A Rahandi Rhodes an interview- I'm sure they do. Most folks never heard of her.

I'm talking about the fact that Dean, Hilary, Kerry & Obama can get on these shows pretty much whenever they want. Probably why we SEE them ON these shows nearly every week. They are not "invited"- they have PR people who book them.

Out Foxed confirms your accusation? Can you show me the part in their transcript where a media insider says they turned down a Kerry, Hillary, Dean or Obama interview?

...but it will cost you $6.59

http://www.dvdempire.com/exec/v4_item.asp?userid=99364609972933&item_id=613631

You are more familiar with the movie than I am- show me the part where Kerry, Dean, Hillary or Obama were denied an interview or a slot on a debate show when they asked for it.

If you can do it, I'll start a new thread and offer up a full retraction.

http://www.outfoxed.org/Documents.php

Limit it to 3 people to hedge your bets. I don't give a shit about those 3. One can handle himself, the other two either pander, or aren't forceful enough to drive the point home. I DO give a shit about 2 GOP senators having a debate about stem cell research on Meet The Press, as if that constitutes Today's version of partisan balance. One way to do that is to not invite Dems or liberals who have spines, and don't back down to the studios. You do not have to be Hillary or Obama to drive the Dem message.

Once again. It's not about those 3 or their access to CATV. It's the general narrative that Republicans are pure, vital, honorable, pristine and white as the driven snow, no matter what story comes up, and that Democrats are corrupt, selfish, cowardly, and have no ideas. This is the long term script they all stick to, no matter what damage the individual stories do to the right.

Rather than ask why not enough Dems are on TV, ask why Jerry Falwell is considered by CNN/MSNBC/FOX as an expert on gay people? Ask why Ann Coulter is famous at all?

Are ANY elected Democrats who are half-way famous claiming to be banned from TV shows?


We dont have to limit this to those 4- tell me, which house-hold name DEMs are being denied access to those interview shows?

Was there a temporal vortex that I didn't fall into?

What is in the film is a former producer, who talked about all the well known right wingers in a pool to be booked as guests and "experts", and that those names on the liberal side were none that she had heard of.

Where did I claim that elected Dems, even halfway famous were being banned? That is your words, your frame, your strawman, which I have rejected at least 3 times to you on this thread. I won't answer that, because it's the wrong question to ask, and I'm not your monkey. I do NOT make claims based on your insipid "elected famous Dems being banned and banned only" only frame. "Tell me"...I'll tell you that your challenge is ridiculous on it's face, and is irrelevant to any arguments about the partisan/corporate control of televised news and information.

Once again just so you didn't hear...You're asking the wrong question. Quit painting stripes on your skull and read something.

Give it a rest. Tell me which Dems are welcomed on Hannity & Colmes with open arms...aside from Lieberman. Rangel?

And that claim is that star, household name Democrats have access to media- despite the constant claims/excuses on DU that "The media wont show it anytime we fight."

If you want to refute that claim, you could start by showing us some star Democrats who have nort been allowed access to slots on news shows.

We dont have to limit this to Kerry, Dean, Hillary etc- show me the Democratic Senators you are talking about.

Hannity & Colmes? Kerry was on a month or so ago.

I have yet to hear Dean, Hillary, Obama or any other famous, elected DEMS claim that they were not allowed on that show at any given time.

Have they claimed this? Until they do, I'll assume it aint so.

Name one person who claimed Democrats are being "BANNED", then link to their very words. I also have never heard elected Dems claim of being banned either, which is why your question is ridiculous, so the burden of proof is on you to prove someone else is claiming that. So far, you're empty.

A star is a ball of gas in the sky. Democrats are elected and soon to be elected politicians.

I am not your monkey. You go to Hell with your insipid demands. There is more than enough information that you've been given over the last 2 years to draw the same conclusions that most of us here have, that cable news is a rigged game. But it's not mine, or anybody else's responsibility to spoon it into you. Get over yourself. I bow before no Prima Donna.

But I understand, getting personal and cursing at people is the last refuge when one is losing the debate.

I never made the argument that cable news and even news in general is not biased- it is.

I also agree that Republican paid Journalists are not likely to cover what DEMS say at websites, "conferences" or at obscure speeches.

The difference with me and the excuse makers at DU is that I am demanding a solution to media bias from our TOP DEMS with media access, as opposed to using bias as a constant excuse for the perception that we dont fight.

As it stands, the constant claim that Democrats "cant get on TV" is false. The top leaders of the party can indeed get on TV.

We they DO go on TV, I personaly think they could be more agressive.

I stand by all of the factual, un-refuted statements I have made on this thread.

...Just so you know, you win debates by actually debating people, not demanding that they bow before your insipid question.

I see no links on your post. You haven't proven that your supposition is true, so your question has no leg to stand on. Therefore you must concede this debate.

Thank you for playing.:hi:

My claim is that top, house hold name Democrats have access to the media.

You want proof? Okay- look at the threads today about Howard Dean's MSNBC appearance today. Apparently, he has the very access I claim he has.

I assumed you were trying to refute my statements I've made on this thread through debate- you have yet to do so.

Your claim is that "some people say" that Dems are, and I quote you...BANNED... from broadcast and cable news. You make this claim without any proof of who or when this is said. I've read every post on this thread, and nothing back up this claim. Nobody, least of all me, is disputing that Howard Dean gets on TV. Your claim of "factual, unrefuted" is like saying that lemons are sour. No shit, Sherlock!

The meme is that the reason we dont see DEMS figting is b/c the media censors, bans, does not "allow" certain DEMS on TV, etc.

Could be true, but we know of plenty of "star" DEMS who dont seem to have this problem.

They, with their media access, are the ones who have the power to expose and perhaps correct this.

In any event, if DEMS are indeed being told that they cant be on shows when they ask to have equal time, they need to say so, loudly & clearly.

delete

There is a difference between sitting on your hands and waiting for cameras to show up ans going straight to the source.

Of course Republican journalists dont go out of their way to cover Democratic speeches & talking points- I'm not talking aobut covering speeches , "conferences" and "releases"- I'm talking about access to TV programs & interviews.

Whcih house hold name Democrat is banned from talk shows & news shows? Who is making this claim?

they dont have dems on. for two different reasons. one says they dont get angry enough, ergo not good rating and another sad no one is interested in hearing from them or some such rot. two high ups on two stations made public statements

so as fabricated a myth we may like to project keeping dems off tv is,..... seems like maybe a reality. especially since kerry has taken to writing his message to the american people

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/1117-20.htm

I posted several threads about this when it happened. Many DEMS have a hard time, but its not impossible- The top, star Democrats are on all the time. The "stars" have access, and have yet to claim that they are being denied access.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

CNN President Jonathan Klein explained that Democrats have a hard time getting booked because they don't get "angry" enough to excite the viewers. He told Charlie Rose, " don't get too worked up about anything. And they're pretty morally relativistic. And so, you know, they allow for a lot of that stuff."

Is that fair? Absolutely not. But, unless the rules of the game are changed, that's the reality progressives are facing. They can't change the rules unless they gain power, and they won't gain power until they work their way into the media.

Instead of huffing and puffing about how unfair it was that the media didn't take the time to learn the nuances of John Kerry's convoluted thinking like, "voting for the $87 billion , before I voted against it," or that disingenuous conservatives like Ann Coulter get too much air time, Democrats need to reinvent themselves.

giving the example of 87b.

kerry plan eliminate rich tax cut
bush plan borrow

kerry voted for his
kerry didnt vote for bush

oh so hard so so so so hard to understand. lets all pretend, really pretend hard, how very hard that whole nuanced thinking that is

dr fate,. reinvent ourselves. what are we to throw tantrums on tv like the repugs, to reinvent ourselves. htis is jsut jibberish. the reality...... doesnt matter., doesnt matter if we rreinvent ourselves, doesnt matter what person we run, doesnt matter if they can do sound bites, or has "charisma" bullshit

but...... dr fate, thank you for the link. i am very bad with links

I happen to think "swing voters" would actually respond to it in a psoitive way. Despite what our strategists tell us, they like Clint Eastwood, not Mr. Rogers

I've also been saying over and over that Democrats with media access need to have "hot" sound bytes like "I dont believe a word that liar says" and "Bush is a criminal"- seriously.

What this would do is "fool" the echo chamber into being outraged about the statement, thus getting the statement itself echoed (see the MLK funeral)

It would invite MORE access for them to "explain themselves" etc...

I'm not saying the media is not biased-they clearly are- my theme has been that top Democrats who DO have access need to DO SOMETHING about the bias.

I've also been saying that if any DEM IS being denied access, then they need to SAY SO- loudly, in order to expose the bias.

We dont have to become Republicans- we can attack them with FACTS as opposed to lies.

Lou Dobbs has interviewed Carl Levin, has another dem on now, Markey.

You watch TV news-possibly cable news. They are framing the issues by only allowing repukes air time. I believe last night here on DU they were talking about how unbalanced guest lists on news shows were-all repukes, or maybe a token Dem, but not one of the fighters like Boxer or Clinton.

I listen to progressive talk radio for my news, and the Dems there are framing the issue nicely. What we need to do is to figure out how to get more folks to listen to our side of things.

The pooch was screwed in the 80's and especially the 1990's, when the Democrats deided they would support selling out the interests of America to the Gods of Trans-National Corporate Capital.

It should have not happened. If the Democrats had filled the expeted role of standing up for workers and consumers back then, the whole equation would be different today.

Let the 'Pubs get out front.

Don't give the flamethrowers any targets but their own. That'll keep'em quiet.

you know...as a Dem..it's hard to stuff down my throat. We Dems have been asked for so long to put on our "Passions on Hold" that I wonder when we will be allowed to eventually "SPEAK OUT!!!" :shrug:

That's just my experience as a Dem since Kennedy...I don't know better how to put that "WE" Dems are always being asked to COMPROMISE rather than LEGISLATE.

there is plenty screaming going on now.

I would save my breath for Hastert and Frist.

Then raise Holy Hell when they drag their feet on scheduling action.

That is whe they should make their stand, in my opinion.

Remember how Reid just dropped them in their tracks? Nothing has happened yet, but man, he got some press.

themselves, I am afraid that the lack of Democrats on national TV will only reinforce the RW talking point that Democrats have no ideas.

I'm with you, but let's wait for the real spotlight.

thanks..

Every damned day, you post the same shit, over and over. I responded to you on this same crap yesterday, and I'll repeat what I said then, you won't be happy until you see a Dem shoot a pub, live on C-Span.

yawn...

Tell me the time and channel.

Rings true..."we feel if things go right and with some work , we can place a close second "( Paraphrase)...we're in need of some leadership :banghead:

But, I think we are going to go to rely on what "went before."

That's why Gore is my Avatar.... :shrug:

I think he might sound "fresh" after the Bush Years of Evil and Corruption/Nepotism. But then, I can never underestimate the WILL of the REPUGS to Morph and Re-Invent themselves.

We cannot discount the Repugs because they "OWN THE MEDIA!" All of IT...Cables to Networks to Public TV and NPR... :-(

the corporate media are icing out the Dems to prevent them from getting their message out. Now that bush blew it they only allow rethugs to tear him a new one, because it wouldnt be good for the corporation if a Dem was ever legitimised.

????

focused on REPUGS BREAKING RANKS WITH BUSH...because it's JUST A GREAT POLITICAL STORY...and they ONLY care about the BALL GAME STATISTICS...

Capiche? Can you refute what I'm saying here?

That is what I am told by their staffers- that PR people book them on shows.

Do TV stars and book authors "ask" to be on shows? Of course not, they have their PR folks call shows and book them when they have somthing to sell.

If Star Democrats are being banned or denied equal time on interview shows when they request it, they need to speak up and list examples. If they dont speak up, I have to assume this is all a conspiracy theory.

are making the NEWS as they IMPLODE and are "hoisted on the Bush Petard" hanging like ragged skeleton carcasses on Bush's Fame and Cod Piece?

Hey...the news is all with the Bushies Imploding...forget our Dems...because they were "out to lunch" when they DID NOT SUPPORT CLINTON...who was our FIRST TWO-TERM DEM SINCE FDR!

Our DEMS allowed Clinton's COCK TO RULE...WE ALLOWED THE REPUGS TO FRAME.

If Clinto was a total "wash out/ sell out Dem" it was STILL OUR DUTY AS DEMS TO DEFEND HIM AGAINST THE REPUG OPS..

THE DLC OPS QUASHED THAT....Don't let them do it to Dean or other Dems who are SPEAKING OUT. Pick and Choose...but don't allow "THEM" to EVER DO THIS AGAIN!!!! :grr:

If they are being "banned", then they need to document this on Air America or on a web page or somthing.

Until I get some confirmation from the DEMS who are allegedly banned, its all just theories on a website.

fray"...the "riff-raff" of the Dem Party...

Don't you see? THEY are the appeasers...those who will get the flower petals and rose water thrown at them when they do the "Walk down PA Avenue in DC...

http://mediamatters.org/

To find it on Air America, you have to listen to Air America.:eyes:

I read Media matters & listen to David Brock on AAR...I've never heard him make the claim that Hillary, Dean, Obama or Kerry are being denied interviews or guest appearnces on news/debate shows.

Which house hold name, star Democrat is being banned from appearances and interviews on News shows?

Which specific article has the banned star Democrat saying this?

You want specifics, which is like looking to buy a matchbox car in a Bennigan's. It's not any specific smoking gun or ban. It's the narrative, and the general reluctance to have any voiceferous Democrat on TV, other than to challenge them with GOP talking points. Howard Dean is good at deflecting these kinds of interviews. Others, like Donna Brazille, who's always on TV are not so good.

When was the last time you saw Michael Moore on TV? The last time he had a movie to promote, and was vilified for what kind of movie he made.

The info is out there. It's your job to find out yourself. Stop trying to make all of us your monkey boys. We don't take orders from you.

READ SOMETHING!

Please, show me where Dean, hillary, Kerry or Obama were denied and interview or slot on a debate show.

Donna Brazille's debating skills are not the issue- the issue is that Star Democrats do hjave access to these shows. Micheal Moore is not a star Democrat. I'm talking about people like Kerry, Dean, Hillary & Obama.

Monkey boy? I'm just asking you to prove your position that Star DEMs are being banned form TV show interviews, which you cant seem to do.

You are gnawing on an old bone that you've had for at least 2 years, and refuse to do any of the legwork yourself. You don't want to be "proven" anything. You are very happy in your own little smug "I'm challenging you. HA!" POV and refuse to listen.

Nobody has any incentive to give you anything, because you've yet to prove that you have an open enough mind for any of us to bother with. Me? I'm at work, avoiding it. You're much more fun than my job.

And my claim is that star Democrats are not being denied access to TV interview and debate shows.

A claim that not one DUer has refuted since I realized this fact.

If they used this outlet more and used more forceful language when they did, there would be less of a perception that "DEMS are spineless" or "Where are the DEMS?" type stuff.

I thought he and other star DEMs were being denied access?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x558359

I never said anything about anybody being "denied access". That's your straw man, not mine.

Which is why we see the DEMS I keep listing on TV nearly every week.

I'm basically saying they need to be on even more, and they need to be even more forceful and blunt when they are on.

According to the media, there is no "stars" on the Dem side. They don't have any ideas or proposals, according to the media, remember?

???

His interview was openly hostile, and he interrupted almost every point Dean was (trying) to make to cut him off with counterpoint of Con arguments.

Dean kept his cool though. It could have easily been a Novak moment if I were present in the studio. LOL!

...that is tough, but the fact is, our Top DEMs CAN get on those shows and they CAN say pretty much whatever they want.

I have to argue with 2 or 3 Repubs at once all the time, that is just the way it is.

Fact is, top DEMS can get on the shows and make strong statements and rebut GOP lies if they really want too.

n/t

Its obvious when someone gets booked that there is always a subject to be discussed. In other words the people agree to the terms and the subjects to be debated.

They dont ask Dems to discuss Rethug incompetence, because that would legitimise Democrats at rethugs expense. They dont allow that. Its bad for the bottom lines of corporate media. Lets not pretend that you can book yourself on a show they dont want you on.

Are you telling me that Democrats can only get on shows when they are asked? I've heard from their staffers that they have PR people who call shows and ask to be on.

To my knowledge, no star Democrats are claiming that they were not allowed on when they asked to be.

To my knowledge, no star Democrats are claiming they were not allowed to bring up or discuss GOP incompetence.

I saw Wolf Blitzer doing just that an hour ago. He was reporting that an Israeli Security Czar gave the Dubai port deal a thumbsup, that he "personally called him to verify it." Therefore, everything is OK now, and we should all agree to letting terrorists have access to our ports... because Wolfie 'verified' something. Yes, those propaganda bastards are framing EVERYTHING we see and hear on TV at the behest of Bushler&Co.

IMPEACH!!!!

it is suddenly fashionable for *everyone* to run against king george

the media is corporate repuke propaganda. why would they dillute the repuke 2006 campaign strategy by allowing a dem on the air?

What star Democrats are making the claim that they were "not allowed" on a news show when they asked to be booked?

by pointing out once again that the dems are a phony "opposition" party, seving the same masters as the repukes (and the media) and carrying out the charade that "democracy" still exists instead of de facto corporate rule.

wouldn't want to waste my time with any of the idiots who probably won't let you make your point and present facts anyway. Screw them. Let them shout at each other.

to trot out their A-game and look all patriotic, and on-top-of-things...just in time for Electioneering '06..

Dems are only useful when someone needs to point a crooked finger and say "THEY HAVE NO PLAN... THEY VOTED FOR WAR..THEY VOTED FOR THE PATRIOT ACT..CHAPPPPPPPPAQUIDDDDDICK....CLINTON'S FAULT.....sqwaaaaawk..GawdBlessAmerica.......MONICA LEWINSKY....."

n/t