What is your reaction to racist jokes, jokes about rape, jokes about gays?

For more information:

When White Males Attack:
Larry Flynt, Racism and The Left

http://www.hustlingtheleft.com/mclune.html




Bonus question for discussion - For those who laugh at racist, sexist and homophobic jokes - what's the big deal if Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter laugh at liberals? Don't they say - it's just entertainment?

Because my sister is gay and so is a friend of mine. I Over the years I have become less tolerant towards people using bigotry. Anyone outside of what is considered a "Norm" understand what it is like to be ridiculed or denegraded. I do not get in people's faces, but sometimes I'll let them know people close to me are gay or of that ethnicity they joke about.

But I admit that I'm not a 100% PC Crusader. Sometimes I'm just too worn down to fight.

But most realise I don't condone bigotry, so they stay away from me, which is very telling. The reason I preach very little is because I too have made racist remarks. I have changed a lot over the years.

in all it's ugly forms. Please don't condemn the freedom fighters because of joke tolerance or insensitivity, just remind us how hurtful the RHETORIC can be to the targeted group.
How many of you politically correct white liberals were at the L.A. collosium with Nelson Mandella?
I was. Want more?

when people use "politically correct" as an insult. :rofl:

for cause is not the same as RHETORIC. You got my back? You going to put your ASS on the line to stand up for my rights at you own peril, job safety? Church position? Neighborhood scandal?
Friends and fellow activists will OVERLOOK the PETTY joke social correctness and show up at the PICKETT LINE, STRIKERS get coffee and donuts from me & mine, you do attend rally's & protests, so am I welcome after you correct my faux pas? Just checking

I mostly laugh though. I can get a bit disgusted if told in pure hate. Even then most times i still find it humorous that people can waste so much energy being bigots.

prop up a stereotype. The ability to laugh at myself is an important part of keeping my sanity and relating to the world around me.

Other jokes are bigotted and not funny. They get treated like the crap that they are.

If Rush or Coulter told a joke that I found funny vs offensive, then I'd probably laugh at it. But sometimes it's the way things are said that are offensive. Sometimes it's the person saying them - the constant offensive comments tend to mask the occasional funny one.

People like to tell jokes about people who they don't understand, are threatened by, or internally feel inferior to. By telling racist, homophobic or sexist jokes, insecure people avoid dealing with those issues by attempting to not take the subject of their "humor" seriously.

At one time, I found that funny. But now, I analyze everything I hear. Although I must admit, when gay people tell gay jokes, or Chris Rock tells black jokes, or Margaret Cho tells Asian jokes, it doesn't bother me as much, because they have ownership in it. I don't think it's OK when people outside of a given group tell jokes about that group.

tation, AND I'm far from guiltless BUT a staunch defender of the victims. I have been accused of impetuous tendencies as defender.

understanding, and thus no malicious intent. But when you hear a pack of white guys faking an "Asian" accent amongst each other, the intent is very different.

fundies, Bush--it's all good.

but I have to admit that I have seen a decent number of jokes (or at least comments) here about Clarence Thomas, Condi Rice, Karen Hughes, Pickles, (M)Ann Coulter, Scotty and Jeff "Gannon" that could be classified as racist, sexist or homophobic, and some speculation on what could happen to Abramoff, Delay, Scooter, Dick and * in prison that could be considered rape jokes, that I have laughed at.

some jokes that would be considered racist, but he was brilliant.

I had no idea that Limbaugh and Coulter were comedians.

as comedians - that what they do is entertainment - it's funny to them.

That's just stupid.

but in my experience - when I question Republicans about what they think about Coulter or Limbaugh - they just laugh them off as being outrageous - like how could I think they take them seriously. "I" must be crazy.

It's actually the same reaction that I get from some people if I question why the think the Hustler jokes are Ok - we are not supposed to think there is anything serious about the jokes to be offended about - it's just "satire and sarcasm".

Take a clue from the smallest kid in gym class. Laugh at yourself. While the bullies are trying to figure out how to react, slip out the locker room door. :evilgrin:

Richard Pryor
Lenny Bruce
Robin Williams
Whoopy Goldberg
Buster Keaton
The Original SNL cast (c. 1975)

And, a few who are totally UNfunny:

Adam Sandler
Ford Fairlane
The cast of Friends
Arnold Schwartzeneiger
Dubya's comic side-kick (the putz who wears colored sneakers) - what's his name?

Sinbad and Bill Cosby - they both make me laugh too

9/10s of the time, that is. Sometimes the wordplay or pun is too funny to ignore.

I don't care who's telling them: if it's ok for a black to tell a joke that would be racist in the mouth of an Asian or Irishman, then I consider either it's not ok for the black to tell it, or it's ok for the Asian/Irishman to tell it.

Unless the person is making the racist joke at entirely his own expense. In which case it's fine. People can mock themselves mercilessly, just not others.

"I still don't get it" which usually makes them irritated or embarrassed.

Have you actually heard someone tell a rape joke? I don't think I've had the misfortune of hearing that before. I couldn't laugh at something like that.

rape case in Mass, there were plenty of awful gand rape jokes.

the cartoons in Hustler - that people refer to as "jokes". There are disgusting examples at the link I provided.

I was PM'ed by someone who seemed to think that certain comedians who "joked" about such things were very funny.

As some people have mentioned - it can vary with the context and who is telling the joke. Richard Pryor might have helped alleviate racism - through his jokes. When other people make racist jokes - they may very well be increasing racism and it's acceptance. (The jokes I am referring to - are not enlightening anyone, however).

I used to go to a church - like 20 years ago - where the preacher used to tell some pretty obnoxious jokes to the choir members. I thought that was pretty surreal.

It wasn't funny to me at all.

older than that.

I can't recall the beginning of it, but it's about a man and woman on a date and he drives out to the middle of nowhere and tells her, "If you're not here after what I'm here after, you'll be here after I'm gone."

I thought it was sick then and I still do.

That is a date rape "joke".

Why would someone post an article that attacks the Left from an obvious RightwingNUT site as a starting point in a discussion about inappropriate 'negative' humour and THEN suggest that there is some equivalency between what Coutler and Limbaugh do and what--um--Chomsky, Mickey Z or Flynn do?

Um...I certainly hope there are a few out there keeping score

The author of the book is a black feminist - hardly what one would consider a RWnutjob. And she does bring up some very good points, many of the cartoons that appear in Hustler are quite racist, homophobic, or misogynist.

who were keeping score and noticed they didn't like the scorecard.


http://www.hustlingtheleft.com/craft1.html

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yer Too Much :rofl: :rofl:

It was one of the funniest racial skits on SNL, where they engage in some free-association that quickly becomes a slur-fest. It ends with Chevy using the "N-word", and Pryor responding "Dead Honkey". I've got it saved on my PC at home.

You need quick-time to watch it, but it is still as funny as it was 20 plus years ago

One of the best.

...in the late 80’s working for KFBK in Sacramento. He gained his popularity by playing a laugh track and cheering as he read off names of gay men who had died of AIDS. His callers, of course, would follow suit, and call in constantly sniping tasteless jokes such as "what do you call a fag in a wheelchair?--roll-aids" or "what do you call a fag in Alaska?--cool-aids." More examples of conservative values, and what they would consider good character.

I guess this is a long winded way of saying no I don't think the shit is funny at all. As a matter of fact, it speaks volumes about the people that use that sort of garbage as humor. Really funny people tend to use that similarities in us all to strike humor, instead of relying on our differences.

Rush also stole another term from a caller, that became a de facto trade mark for his brainless rants---"feminazi". There were many tasteless jokes, and sound bites associated with that as well, but that's a different subject altogether.

I never listened to that - but yeah basically - I would expect racist, sexist, gay jokes from somebody like that - and I have no respect for him.


I don't expect the same from people who consider themselves liberals (libertarians, maybe).

It's one thing to know that racists, sexists like Limbaugh will be attacking "Femi-nazis" - I don't expect that from progressives.

There are sexist jokes that are only mildly so, e.g. the "blonde" joke genre. Many women laugh at them. I've often heard women say things like "I had a blonde moment" which isn't much different than having a "senior moment" (where is the outrage at ageist jokes?).

Some jokes exploit the kernel of truth that exists in many racist and homophobic stereotypes. Often people of color and gays can appreciate that kind of humor.

I can't see being offended at every utterance that contains some hint of commentary about one group or another. Familiarity with the audience has a lot to do with how people react. There are some things I could laugh at if told by a close friend who I know not to be racist or sexist or homophobic, that if a stranger said to me would cause a different reaction.

I've walked out of comedy shows (and demanded a refund), castigated those who tell such jokes, and adamantly refused to ever be an audience for such 'humor' for decades. I have 'zero tolerance' for such crap. I don't give a damn whether it's "self-deprecating" or not - I don't tolerate it.

That said, I have a well-developed sense of humor and see a plethora of fertile areas for 'human comedy' jokes. I strongly prefer the comedy of such folks as A. Whitney Brown and George Carlin.

Please tell me there's not a market for that!

from the darker material of people like Sarah Silverman, Chris Morris and Peter Cook & Dudley Moore(*) to the everyday quips about male prison rape ("dropping the soap"). Hell, there's even an episode of The Simpsons where Homer gets raped by a panda.

(*)http://www.phespirit.info/derekandclive/ad_nauseam_17.htm

I LOVE Derek and Clive!

They are funny BECAUSE they are so offensive. As long as I know the person who tells the joke isn't really a racist, sexist, or homophobe, I don't have a problem. I'm not going to pretend to be outraged at something I find funny. Obviously, I won't find it funny if it is told in a mean spirited way by a real bigot.

and how much of his agenda is a self serving one as opposed to a progressive one.

"Right-wing bigot, go away. Racist, sexist, anti-gay," chanted protestors. "That's bull****. Get off it. This b**** is for profit."

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/viewstory.asp?Page=%5CPolitics%5Carchive%5C200602%5CPOL20060213d.html


Only with Flynt it would be:

"Left (?)-wing bigot, go away. Racist, sexist, anti-gay," chanted protestors. "That's bull****. Get off it. This b**** is for profit."


That's (one reason) why I don't claim him as part of my group.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x544086

and on the nature and intent of the joke

and the context in which it is told

But I usually won't call them on it unless I know them well.

I'm a white person who has a lot of black coworkers. There is a lot of good-natured teasing both ways that I laugh at. Some jokes that appear racist are actually subtle challenges to stereotypes.

One of my sister's black friends sat with my brother at a girls' basketball game in which all players on both teams were white. My brother pointed out a girl who had just scored, and the other kid told him "Which one, they all look alike to me". That's very funny.

and/or redneck jokes fit into this category.
I'd be willing to bet most here have had a good laugh at the expense of others.

You might be a redneck:
Three Rednecks were working on the BellSouth tower -
Steve, Bruce and Jed.

Steve falls off and is killed instantly.

As the ambulance takes the body away, Bruce says,
"Someone should go and tell his wife."

Jed says, "OK, I'm pretty good at that sensitive
Two hours later, he comes back carrying a case of
Budweiser. Bruce says, "Where did you get that, Jed?"
Steve's wife gave it to me," Jed replies.

"That's unbelievable, you told the lady her husband
was dead and she gave you beer?"

Well, not exactly", Jed says. "When she answered the
door I said to her, 'You must be Steve's widow'."

She said, "No, I'm not a widow.

And I said, "I'll bet you a case of Budweiser you
are".

Like the example of Limbaugh reading off names of gay men who had died of AIDS with a laughtrack on:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x555292#555998


Some people would say that that just isn't funny (and it isn't) - but there are a lot of things that people (esp. most women) would not find funny in Hustler (supposedly catering to the left) as well. And then are all of those things such as context and who is telling the joke and all that.

One thing that is disturbing to me is how - when you suspect that people have a reason to think they can get away with being racist - so they start telling racist jokes about a certain group - like Muslims (this seemed to be happening around here in response to the port deal - like it was open season all of a sudden). I think it makes the whole "Joke" aspect rather suspect (esp. "victim humor" as someone put it). People - esp. an oppressing class of people should watch it IMO - if they don't want to sound like complete assholes. Obviously Rush doesn't care.

Remember last week or so, we were all howling at Howie because he slammed Colbert for being arrogant and egotistical? Howie didn't get the satire.

We all think we know what a bigoted joke or remark is, right? But as soon as you set a standard, you put yourself in the Kurtz position because human creativity is infinite and some comic or writer will come along and violate the standard without being racist or sexist or any "ist".

Setting a standard in that way, usually called censorship, just doesn't work very well:

"A rapist, a pedophile and a priest walked into a bar. And, that was just the first guy."

. . .

That isn't a joke about priests: it's a joke about our expectations as listeners.

And maybe the larger point is, you can't really be afraid and laugh at the same time. Laughter is a release from a lot of things but especially from fear. And this is where Pryor was so brilliant. He knew that people are bigoted scared critters burdened with huge imaginations. And he let them off the hook in a profound way, mostly by forcing their noses into their bullshit with what can only be called evil love. :evilgrin:

Or, that's what it looks like to me this morning. :)

edit: ack, typing

Five years ago I wouldn't have said a word, but I can no longer stay silent.