My last TOONS post at DU

When I get accused of racism for posting TOONS at DU, then I think it's time someone else does the TOONS. To suggest that any cartoonist who draws pictures of Arabs that look like and fit the Osama "terrorist" profile means I have posted Arabs in blackface is ridiculous in my opinion and sounds like the kind of rightwing attacks we have been hearing all week against anyone who objects to turning over American ports to Arabs who support Osama and terrorism.

Blackface is when white people paint their own faces to mock people of color. The cartoon that some found so offensive clearly seems to me to be a depiction of Osama and Al Q. I don't get the connection between the depiction of fundie Muslim extremists (they DO look like this) and mocking others in blackface, and I find it offensive to be accused of posting racist TOONS. I did not post the blatantly racist TOONS others chose to post on my TOON thread, and I am disgusted to be told the TOONS I posted resembled them in any way.

Most of the time my TOON page sinks off the front page like a 2 ton anchor with nary a peep out of anyone. The one time there is any response it is to point out my racism! WTF??

Fine. You guys can do better. Have at it. Go find your own PC TOONS. I can find better uses for my time than being abused by fellow DUers.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=551802&mesg_id=551802

and I'm sorry others got upset. They didn't upset me, and I appreciated the laughs. But I don't blame you-I realize it takes quite a bit of time to find these and post them.

Keep up the good work

I appreciate the hard work you guys put in every day to post them. they always bring a smile to my face. Thanks for you hard work :yourock:


please dont let a few detractors ruin it for the rest of us

...generally as "terrorists" and mad bombers, or as religious fanatics-- all elements represented in American society as well. I understand the purpose of such cartoons, and all political cartoons make their point by satire and exaggeration, but I do find a bit too much racism being expressed these days. Just my two cents, and certainly not meant as a criticism of YOU at all.

I'd rather decide for myself whether something is appropriate. Please don't stop posting toons. I greatly appreciate the work that goes into compiling them and I usually appreciate most if not all of them and would never hold the person who posted them accountable for the content if *I* happened to not like them

to that sort of nonsense.

if someone wants to read something into some cartoons that really isn't there thats their problem, not yours.

shake it off, and stick around.

You're doing us all a service by posting them. Any racism, if it does exist, comes from the cartoonist and not you.

It's about all I use the search feature for!
I wouldn't be suprised if 50% of the people here at DU read your toon posts, even if they never post.

You can't predict or control how other people will react, but I think you are doing a valuable service to our community by collecting and posting them.

accused of being rasist against Black folk!

:rofl:

You avatar is very offensive to those people of follicle shading.
:silly:

:loveya:

:rofl:!

:rofl:

white people being concerned about racial stereotypes sounds like a good thing to me. Why does it make you laugh? :shrug:

if it just was concern about racial stereotypes it wouldn't be dragged into some spastic hissy fit. properly done there'd be a stern comment and head shaking and then leave it to the targeted community to further respond, and this after noticing how the targeted community reacts to the piece in the first place. sometimes the targeted community completely gets the comment and didn't see some obscure tortured reference embedded within. yet far too often, as i've seen it, there's the privilege group getting all in a huff of self-righteous outrage in proxy for the targeted group. it seems like an oblique means to control the social environment around them, like it's their burden to determine who is offended, by what, and how. this assumes a great deal (knowing how a whole community might feel), and only a person in a position of assumed privilege would effortlessly go there. and to get whipped up into a self-righteous rage controls the dialogue even before the targeted group even gets a chance to say anything; this frames the argument into something the said group may or may not find important.

basically, it's hubris in assuming you know what's best for others and how others should feel, on both the powered and powerless sides. only a person mindlessly entrenched in the power structure could so blithely fall into that ego trap and call it righteousness. that's where the problem is.

they weren't in a huff, they were thoughtfully expressing some thoughts about how they reacted to the cartoon.

The reaction to what that person wrote is incredible to me.

that's because this is a tangential discussion. :think:

You've done a great job collecting toons for us.

I couldn't see the "blackface" in the cartoon... maybe its the unfortunate choice of the face of the character whose big lips vaguely look like blackface... Just chalk it up to oversensitivity.... I, for one, enjoyed the toons and ask that you continue to post.. Its not like you drew it, right?

It really begs the question about the Mohamemd cartoon scandal... yes the cartoon was insulting, its blasphemous to depoict him, the cartoonist were truly irresponsible... but come on... people are dying over this.

it is also missing from the latest page, although that was where I first saw it.

:wtf:

some folks are here to disrupt...keep it in mind http://www.canofun.com/cof/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=17297

You have to watch every word, every letter,every thought. I swear, its like dealing with the NSA. Its one of the reasons I don't start threads, for fear of offending someone somehow in some way.

ON EDIT: if you think I am exagerrating about "every letter", I was flamed in a reply because of the "fla" on my handle. Snidely accussed of being responsible for the outcome of BushVGore in Y2K because of where I live.

These people who pull this shit, they plainly aint the sharpest knife in the drawer. They cant attack the facts or the subject of your message, they have to hang onto little nit-picky PC crap.

what some cartoonist drew, let me point out that you're VERY wrong on what "extremist Muslim terrorists" look like.

This is ALSO an extremist Muslim terrorist:

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,515639,00.jpg

Where is the robe and the AK-47? Hmmmm...

Be more careful with your stereotypes, OK? Just some friendly advice.

NOT because I want you to quit, but as a means of showing support and appreciation for your TOONS threads - and with the hope you will keep on keepin' on.

The truth hurts some people...

The toons are not racist they are based on facts....

The word racism is thrown around way to much as far as I am concerned....people don't want to see things that they are uncomfortable with.....

Don't let them deter you....I like your toons...and I look at them when you post...I am guilty of enjoying your art and not responding...

Please continue to post and I will respond.....:hi:

Don't take it personal. Always stick up for yourself and fight back. I used to get intimidated by people slamming me for statements or ideas that I have expressed. There is not a general consensus here by any means. Lots of disrupters and a few assholes. Nobody OWNS DU. Some posters think they do. You contribute, you have a right to be here just as anyone does. I say screw em!

read the posts. That person wasn't rude, they were very polite and thoughtful in the way they expressed themselves. And yet they get accused of all kinds of nasty things. I think this is really unfair.

I did not see it, or participate in the thread. I am making a general statement about rudeness.

Far as I can see, there were only two people who accused you, or the cartoon, of racism. Don't let that make you stop posting toons! I do enjoy and appreciate your toons posts, and I'm ashamed to say I haven't given you the recognition you deserve in those threads, but next time I see one I'll bump it, recommend it and give thanks to you - cause there will be a next one, right? Right?? :)

Thank you for all of your painstaking efforts of the past.

F 'em if they don't have a sense of humor

c'mon.. I love your toons threads... You know I do. I know they take some time to compile and I always try to give them a least one good kick..

Please remember that the whole "objecting to the ports deal is racism" is being pushed by many, not us types and let it slide off your back.

And comparing Shani Davis to FROZONE!?

I check them out all the time but don't always post a comment. I promise to acknowledge every toon thread I read from now on if you keep posting them!

The comments on your latest thread re racism struck me as posts trying to push the bush cabal meme that opposing the port deal is 'racism' and dismissed those posts accordingly.

I had a TOON post deleted because of my sig line & am no longer allowed to have a sig line. My last TOON post was last month.

I must admit I usually just look at the toons, and don't read the comments or kick - I am sorry for that.

I do appreciate your hard work.

Joke 'em if they can't take a ...

some just like to pick. if you don't like it or it offends you by all means don't look or read, simple as that. Myself I like a good joke or a good 'toon, it helps to lighten the load a tad. I don't always get them either but,

:hug:

I'm sorry for not kicking your threads enough! :(

Please PM me the name(s) of the person(s) who did this. ;)

I understand why you would want to stop, if people are getting on your case, but I think there are more of us who enjoy them -- and appreciate you for posting them -- than there are people who don't like them.

I hope you will reconsider, because I always look forward to them, as do many other people.

and neither should you. Your work is appreciated--very much. Don't stop.

I didn't see the toons you are posting about here, but I have seen lots and lots of good, helpful, honest, things you've posted in the past. My hat is off to ANYONE who STILL has the guts to stand up for America and to come here and hit back at the people who are trying to bully us all into silence. I fear there are a few here among us who are not here because they believe in our democratic causes. We have known they were around all along. The only kind of skin I ever look down on, is THIN skin. You can't let them change you, or they have won.

And you shouldn't even try. There will always be people that disagre. Especially at DU. Just do your best and let it fall how it will.

I do not accuse you of racism. I raised the question of racial caricature, because I have been seeing more exaggerated portraits of Arabs recently than I remember in the past, and I wonder if it bothers anyone else. I think that I would be upset if I were to see similar depictions of blacks, and the "Would I find this justifiable if I were similar to the target?" test is one I often use to check myself.

I apologized if I should have made it clearer that I was not accusing you and failed to do so.

I enjoy your cartoon posts, and hope that they will continue.

I would call it super-realism.

C'mon! It's not racism. It's just a over-done color job. I don't think Bush's cheeks are that rosy either. :P

I read the other thread. There were so few bitching about it, compared to the MAJORITY of us that appreciate them. Please reconsider when you cool down ok? :)

Tomorrow will be better.

Don't let the nitwits get to ya...

:hi:

they expressed their opinion politely and sincerely to you, and you got defensive.

I didn't have any problem with the cartoon, by the way.

and suggested I had done the same. That pissed me off. And I say if that's the kind of response I can expect to posting TOONS at DU, I can find better things to do with my time.

every post made by that person was extraordinarily polite, and not directed at you. They were expressing their reaction to that cartoon, and not accusing you of being racist.

They were starting a discussion that I would think would be welcome at DU.

I think the person that's getting abused is that person, in this awful gang-up thread. But I think they can take it.

some people notice/are more sensitive to these things than others. For instance - it's likely that someone from the Middle East would pick up on something being racist before others would.

Or like some women would pick up on victim humor denigrating women before men would see it that way.

You might have seen my poll about racist/sexist humor. (That had nothing to do with your thread, btw)

50% say they would condemn it - it actually was 67% for quite awhile - who knows - maybe some people saw your thread and had second thoughts.

The thing of it is - people could learn from each other - what others find offensive and try not to offend. Some people have made it clear that they enjoy seeing others being offended. So there won't be much learning going on with them - but there you go.

I don't see it as abuse for people to bring up questions about racism - in the cartoons - I didn't see it as them questioning YOU.

And as far as other peoples comments go - it doesn't make sense to me that people seem to want to censor "the complainers" - but not the offenders. As if we should go around offending each other and nobody should ever complain about it. And that is freedom of speech? I don't know. It doesn't make sense to me. It's easy for the oppressing class to tell others to just buck up and take it.

Or do people just expect the Muslims, the women, the gays, whatever minority to go away? THAT did seem to be the message of the Danish cartoons - at least the message that was heard "get out of our country". It's a tricky time for cartoonists (as well as those who publish them) these days.

peace

O8)
Could you make a separate thread of it or something?

I found some other relevant material and started a thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x565422

I hope you continue. Please.

Out of thousands who read this site, two people had issues?

Geez, dude. That's nothing.

And when I saw my TOON thread this morning, it had 7 posts on it. Several posts included hideously offensive TOONS that were equated to one I posted. I am not trying to abuse anyone, but I am also not willing to put in all the effort into doing TOONS if no one wants to read them, or if I am so offbase that I am offending people. Those of us in the TOON syndicate work hard to keep up Nostamj's tradition. We need to know we are appreciated sometimes.

On the other hand, the outpouring of DU support for my TOON posts has made me feel less hot and cranky than I felt this morning when my temp was 102.

So I too apologize for offending anyone. Another DUer sent me this TOON. It seems appropriate to this thread, so I will post it.

But I've seen it before. People read. People appreciate. But people forget to say something so that the OP knows that they read and appreciate. I hope this thread has shown you otherwise.

And you didn't offend people, near as I can tell. You offended person, or only one or two in that thread. Eh, can't please everyone all the time.

Maybe you could revisit your decision when you feel less crappy. Hope you feel better soon.

Like they do to Jesus.

I'm not going to post his picture though for fear of offending Mel Gibson.

gathered toons for us all to see. Don't sweat the petty shit from the ultra-PC.

As John Adams said in "1776": "This is a revolution, dammit; We're going to have to offend SOMEBODY!"

:-(

In a community of 80k people (or whatever DU is now), you're gonna piss some people off. It's a given. I've been called a freeper before and I've been here since the beginning in 2001, and have over 10k posts spread out over those 5 years.

If someone has a problem with a toon you posted, the classy thing would have been to send you a private message asking about the choice of that toon. The worst offenders in the PC game are the ones that refuse to look at your body of work, so to speak, to see that 99.9% of your toons did not offend their sensibilites, and to understand who you are as a person and that you are not trying to hurt anyone, and are certainly not a racist. Instead, people get their panties in a bunch and have to attack in public.

We've had more than a few threads here wherein someone took the paternal attitude of "protecting" another race, by going ballistic over a perceived slight. Yes, we should all condemn racism. But.. people who take it upon themselves to feel offended for someone else, and then attack over it, is just misguided or egotistical.

Please don't stop the toons... :grouphug:

tell me, people, does he really deserve all the names he's being called on this thread?

Notice the lack of him saying one negative thing, let alone any namecalling, toward the OP or anyone he's discussing with. Then compare with all the things he's being called now: whiner, hyper pc nerd, disruptor, sensitivity police, not the sharpest knife in the drawer, nit-picky PC crap, disruptors and assholes, complainer, troublemaker, nitwit.

Is that fair, at all? Doesn't he deserve an apology?

What's wrong with what that person wrote:

Cartoons like this one bother me a lot.

<snip>

I should have been more specific.

The common feature in them is exaggeration of the dark skin and thick lips. I've been seeing Arab faces exaggerated a lot more recently. The comparison might have worked if I had been careful to point that out.


They are indeed disturbing in other ways as well.

<snip>

There was one in my school paper that pictued an Arab man

Like a cross between Arafat and a Saudi king,with a huge, pimpled nose and thick lips, wearing sungglasses and a Kofia as a terrorist. No one else even seemed to notice it.

<snip>

It's easy to find them on google images.

I couldn't believe it.

<snip>

Yeah, I sat openmouthed on that one for a while.

It's an Aryan Nation site.

The "Lone Wolves" it mentiones are freelance murderers.

<snip>

My issue is with racial caricature,

not with which race is pictured.

<snip>

I don't think it's a slur on Arabs either,

But something nags me every time I see a cartoon with exaggerated Arabs nowadays. It seems to me to be too easy to make that association. I don't hear anyone else express reservations about it most of the time, so it seems that I'm either making something of nothing, or seeing a disturbing trend. In either case the thing to do is call it out, start a discussion, and see what other people think, in order to broaden my perspective and balance my own perceptions and reactions. That I have.


<snip>

39. Can you further explain the sense it makes?

<snip>

31. I hope your issue gets solved, by your correction or mine.

I didn't say they're in blackface.

I don't know what the cartoonist should have done. Maybe it should, exactly what he or she did, or maybe emphasizing the weapons or other features instead of the faces.

Any time I see a villain identified by an exaggerated racial feature, I find it dampens the humor for me a great deal.

See my other posts in this thread.

The OP is free to do as he/she chooses.

Thank you for alerting me to that thread.

<snip>

29. You've got me there.

I didn't pay him any second notice.

Actually, he reminds me a bit of Robertson.

<snip>

I found those comparisons to my posts offensive. I will not apologize for something I did not do.

and he said he liked your toons and he told you to keep posting them. And he didn't alert your thread or suggest it should be locked or anything even close.

And he never called you anything. Don't you feel bad about what people are saying about him here?

Talk about a hijacked thread! It's no wonder you're pissed.

One of the highlights of coming to the message boards on DU is to see the threads with the latest political cartoons all neatly collected for you. The few who perform this function here are providing an intensive but much-appreciated service to the DU community. I show my support and respect for these members by at the very least kicking the thread -- ALWAYS.

I can't understand why anyone would reply to a thread of this kind in order to condemn a particular cartoon. Why not simply use the address of the cartoon to start a new thread and discuss any racist or other controversial aspect of the cartoon in question there? I guess just because a lot of people don't think about where they are and what they're doing before they act, both in the physical world and here at DU.

I don't care whether the cartoon is racist or not, the issue is one of simple courtesy. I hope you'll shrug off the discourtesy of those posters and rethink your decision to quit posting cartoon threads. DU will be so much the poorer for it if you don't.

Who would think that people would be criticized for discussing something they saw as a problem? It's nonsense.


The discussion in that thread was not even close to flaming. Not like when people shut a topic through insults because they don't want others to discuss it.


I hope people who see racism and sexism (and I mean SEXISM - not women who are talking about sexism which some numbskulls think is sexism - but sexism itself) bring it to all of our attention. Because a lot of people won't notice.

When you reply to THAT thread, give the original poster a break and just say "thanks!" and kick the toons. An entirely separate thread could and should have been opened to discuss any issues of racism concerning that one particular cartoon.

And as recent history would indicate, some people are ever so touchy about cartoons.

I always search for the toon threads. I need to see them. I want to see them. When all the rest is stripped away, the toons will speak for us for generations.

Not everyone is going to be a "fit" for everyone.

I always rec the thread and bookmark them when I see them.

PLEASE don't stop. You bring much comfort and a few giggles to those of us that need them so badly.

WWJD ... What would Jeff do?

:hug:

Damn you for invoking the patron saint! It is not an easy job to step into his shoes (even one week a month).

:)

So tell them to "step off" and keep on keeping on!

One man's ceiling is another man's floor ... if they find something objectionable, then they find it objectionable. I find blivet** objectionable ... what's a girl to do?

I mean it seriously ... keep on keeping on. There are those of us out here that NEED you to.


Please? :hug:

You are much appreciated and much loved.

Don't pay attention to the attacks.

Peace,
Citrene

smiling, thinking what a good job you are doing at "yelling" at people, and he would hope that you would continue posting TOONs

Please stay!

:grouphug:

Glenda

...Generic Other has my full support, and I hope to see more TOONS from her in the future. nostamj would be proud of her.

:loveya:

don't let some PC Posse run you off!

:kick: :hug:

DemEx

reasoned debate maybe you shouldn't be posting stuff on a discussion board. That person did not call you a racist, they simply said they were uncomfortable with the way arabs were depicted in one cartoon. That then went into a discussion about racism permeating a lot of cartoons, not an unreasonable direction for a discussion to go.

I thought calling out people on a new thread was against DU rules.

This is why we on the left can never win. It gets frustrating.

Please don't stop!!! We Love The Toons!!!!

:toast: :grouphug: :hug: :pals: :headbang: :yourock: :applause: :patriot:

Did you read the other thread? The poster was very polite and wasn't not calling Generic Other a racist but merely pointing out what they perceived as a racist caricature in one of the cartoons. A discussion then ensued on racial representation in cartoons, this is a discussion board after all.

A great number of DU members are complete and total assholes;
just ignore them.

(Many may think that I'm speaking about myself, BTW.)

Tesha

I haven't clicked on any TOON threads at DU since Nostamj's death. I wanted him "there" with the toons. :cry:

I'm sorry I haven't supported your efforts.

As far as the rest, DU is no longer a small, friendly, community, if it ever was. There are plenty of people who may share overall political goals, but still have diverse povs and ways of expressing them. Not all DUers moderate their self expression with courtesy, respect, or civility. While expressing disagreement respectfully should be the standard, imo, it isn't always going to happen. We accept that every time we hit the "post message" button.

Don't let anyone here push YOUR buttons.

Passionate, yes, but friendly.

:hug:

I, for one, would be very upset if DUers like GO felt compelled to lower their profiles because of an occasional misguided over-reaction.

GO, there are more than a few shoot-from-the-lip types at DU, but don't let that get you down. They have every right to disagree with you, and you have every right to disagree right back. Relish that right; revel in it.

People need to understand that editorial cartoons are like news, in that posting them is relaying the cartoonist's statement, not endorsing it. Folks (to borrow a **ism) who don't understand that need to be gently corrected, and if they still don't get it, pointed to mods. They are here to keep the playground safe for the other children.

(I tend to be real slow about complaining to mods--all the "good" stuff gets deleted by mods before I get a chance to laugh at it, which I feel is a curtailment of my liberties.:evilgrin: )

Loved the long cartoon by KAL. The inkwell (or cursor) can indeed be a weapon of mass destruction, but also a weapon of mass instruction, and seems to have an inherent bias to function that way. Those like you who know which end of the weapon to hold will have much more effect on this world than those who know not, and know not that they know not.

Just brush them off. DU is behind you.