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Indiana House members pray in protest???

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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 09:47 AM
Original message
Indiana House members pray in protest???
Just because you don't AGREE with the law, doesn't make it any less a law.

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060105/NEWS02/601050426

Republican House leaders made it clear Wednesday they don't agree with a judge's ban on prayers that invoke the name of Jesus Christ during their proceedings.

But, led by House Speaker Brian C. Bosma, they decided to forgo the 189-year tradition of invocations -- at least for now -- and opted instead to have a free-spirited prayer huddle in the back of the House chamber minutes before the opening gavel.

"We're taking a stand. We're making a statement," Bosma said. "But within the bounds of the court order."

<snip>

The pre-session prayer huddles will continue until the judge's order is revoked, House leaders said. Bosma said his legal team, working with Attorney General Steve Carter, would formally appeal the order by Feb. 15.

Fran Quigley, executive director of the Indiana Civil Liberties Union, whose lawsuit against Bosma prompted the court order, praised the House leader's solution of praying before the session.
"They're expressing their faith in a way that's not given the trappings of government speech, so I think it's constitutionally appropriate," Quigley said.

<snip>

Indiana University law Professor Daniel Conkle said it would have been easier to make the case that this was private speech had the prayer huddle been outside the House chamber, and not so close to the start of business.
"They're testing the limit," Conkle said. "I wouldn't necessarily conclude they've gone beyond it, but I think they're definitely getting close to the edge."

<snip>

"Those of us, myself included, who yearn for the opportunity to freely speak in accordance with our beliefs have historically always ended up on the right side of history," he said.
His remarks were met by a 30-second standing ovation from House members and the gallery.

<snip>

Less enthusiastic was Rep. David Orentlicher, an Indianapolis Democrat and the sole Jewish legislator. Orentlicher said he was in a meeting outside the House chamber when the prayer huddle took place. He said he had no problem with private and personal prayers.

But Orentlicher, who lingered in a doorway to the House chamber as Bosma explained his objections to Hamilton's order, said the speaker should be paying more attention to vital issues such as health care and tax policy and less to the prayer controversy.

He also criticized Bosma for continually insisting in public that free speech is at stake when his lawyers conceded that was not the case before Hamilton.

"It's unfortunate he wants to create religious conflict and political division when there are critical issues facing the state," Orentlicher said.

cont'd...

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060105/NEWS02/601050426


I am SO glad I got the hell out of Indiana years ago.
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holdensphonies Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. Stuck
Some of us poor b*stards are stuck in this far right leaning state. If I could leave I would love to, but that is not going to happen unless I get out of the field of education. Too much experience to find a teaching job. Sounds retarded... but true.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. I understand your pain.
It's a little too conservative for my tastes. You'd think with Marion County, the liberals would step up and demand this not take place in their Capital building, but I guess it's too small a group to be heard.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. OH!
By the way. Welcome to DU! :hi:
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Hi holdensphonies!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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shugah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. prayer huddles?
"29-34-JESUS-HUTT!"

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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. I wonder if they high five each other and shout "Jesus!" as they break
the huddle? Maybe they should read what Jesus said about public prayers.

"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men... But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hath shut the door, pray to thy Father which is in secret... But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathens do..." (Matthew 6: 5-7)
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. What Jesus said about praying in public.......
"And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men... But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hath shut the door, pray to thy Father which is in secret... But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathens do..." (Matthew 6: 5-7)
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Psychmd Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. Some of us are not so lucky
Still trapped in Indiana. Working on my escape to a sane region of the country once my two foster children's adoptions are finalized. I agree that the legislature should spend more time on issues that actually effect the citizens of Indiana and less time putting on a prayer vigil.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. I have been fortunate to have nothing tie me down.
I still go back to visit the family, of course, all of whom have yet to escape the clutches of the state.

Welcome to DU! :hi:
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
6. "Let us ay."
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LizW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
7. Selective Bible reading, again
"Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven...And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you." (Matthew 6:1-6 RSV)



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sui generis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
11. oh my stars and garters
Edited on Thu Jan-05-06 10:20 AM by sui generis
you'd think that praying at the church, praying at the house, praying in the car, praying in the crapper, and praying your wife won't catch you at the hour-rate motel with a two dolla ho would be praying enough for these idiots.

After all that, it would be nice if they worked at work and prayed elsewhere.
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im10ashus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-05-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I agree.
This is a way for them to circumvent the separation of church and state and appeal to their base. I would be LIVID if I were in that House.
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